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	<title>Comments on: Paul Krugman on &#8220;This Week&#8221;: &#8220;The Argument Against the Public Option is Sheer Nonsense&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/</link>
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		<title>By: Indie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963438</link>
		<dc:creator>Indie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963438</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The administration’s goal is to kill the public option. Why else would Obama keep repeating the line, ‘if you like your plan you can keep it.’ This claim has been shown to be false: 1)the public option will surely be less expensive than private plans, giving employers incentives to ‘drop’ employees into the public option and 2)employers who change their plans, in any way, for any reason, will find employees automatically enrolled in the public option.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;‘Qualified’ public plans offered by the government may or may not be the same as what many Americans now enjoy.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The administration’s goal is to kill the public option. Why else would Obama keep repeating the line, ‘if you like your plan you can keep it.’ This claim has been shown to be false: 1)the public option will surely be less expensive than private plans, giving employers incentives to ‘drop’ employees into the public option and 2)employers who change their plans, in any way, for any reason, will find employees automatically enrolled in the public option.</p>
<p>‘Qualified’ public plans offered by the government may or may not be the same as what many Americans now enjoy.</p>
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		<title>By: Tinroof</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963119</link>
		<dc:creator>Tinroof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Having the two of them on one show together lets them claim they show both sides, while only having one serious elite moderator and guest panel per week made to look stupid.&lt;br /&gt;
The longer they can keep their current crew of smiling halfwits, the longer they can put off hiring sane people with actual credibility. It’s a sneaky current-cost containment trick.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having the two of them on one show together lets them claim they show both sides, while only having one serious elite moderator and guest panel per week made to look stupid.<br />
The longer they can keep their current crew of smiling halfwits, the longer they can put off hiring sane people with actual credibility. It’s a sneaky current-cost containment trick.</p>
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		<title>By: gamd521</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963105</link>
		<dc:creator>gamd521</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963105</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Those who feel that Krugman is shrill or off the mark are hopelessly deranged idiots. They are very likely unable to make sense of his columns in which he is clear as to why the health care system needs changing and needs to include a PO.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is nothing complicated about understanding the need to instill a mechanism that will drive down the cost of private offered health insurance. You need for there to be competition to private insurance by a PO that you buy into voluntarily because it provides lower cost and excludes no one.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where is the difficulty in getting that?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who feel that Krugman is shrill or off the mark are hopelessly deranged idiots. They are very likely unable to make sense of his columns in which he is clear as to why the health care system needs changing and needs to include a PO.</p>
<p>There is nothing complicated about understanding the need to instill a mechanism that will drive down the cost of private offered health insurance. You need for there to be competition to private insurance by a PO that you buy into voluntarily because it provides lower cost and excludes no one.</p>
<p>Where is the difficulty in getting that?</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963102</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963102</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;shrill in this context is an honorific.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;gather ’round my children while i give you some linky goodness to the history of the order of the shrill.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;From Brad De Long’s &lt;a href=&quot;http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2006/07/the_history_of_.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The History of the Shrill&lt;/a&gt;:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I guess it started, I think, with that extremely strange and not-very-analytical Svengali of the Bush Social Security reform plan, Peter Ferrara, who wrote back in 2001 about “the fierce, shrill, and unreasoned denunciations of allowing workers the freedom to choose a personal-account option for Social Security may impress the gullible… and denounced ..the highly irascible Paul Krugman…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That was, I think, the start of a very peculiar meme: a piling-on of critics of Bush–especially of Paul Krugman–whose sole criticism was that he was “shrill.” The critique was neither that he was a bad economist, nor that his accusations that the Bush administration was lying about a whole bunch of stuff were incorrect (indeed, one of Paul’s most vicious critics, Andrew Sullivan, gloried in the fact that Bush was lying about his tax cut. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/05/yes_andrew_sull.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/&lt;/a&gt;….._sull.html). So if you wanted to attack Krugman, but could not attack him because his analytics were right, and could not attack him because his accusations of Bush administration dishonesty were correct, what can you do?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The accusation–the only line of critique–is that Paul “only sees what’s wrong with the other side, in fairly crude terms,” or–in shorthand–is “shrill.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;God alone knows why they thought this line of attack would do anything other than shred their own reputations. God knows why others took up this line of attack. But take off it did, both as a narrowly-focused attempt to degrade the reputation of Paul Krugman, and as a broader attempt to marginalize all who pointed out that the policies of the Bush administration were (a) stupid, and (b) justified by lies, and it took off both among the yahoos of the right and also among the denizens of the center-left.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why did it take off? I think the reasons were well laid out by Nick Confessore:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Comparative Advantage” by Nicholas Confessore: On balance, Krugman’s record stands up pretty well. On the topics he writes about most often and most angrily–tax cuts, Social Security, and the budget–his record is nearly perfect. “The reason he’s gotten under the White House’s skin so much,” says Robert Shapiro, a former undersecretary of commerce in the Clinton administration, “is that he’s right. None of it is rocket science.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and not to be missed is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://shrillblog.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;shrillblog&lt;/a&gt;: THE OFFICAL BLOG OF THE ANCIENT AND HERMETIC ORDER OF THE SHRILL&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shrill in this context is an honorific.</p>
<p>gather ’round my children while i give you some linky goodness to the history of the order of the shrill.</p>
<p>From Brad De Long’s <a href="http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2006/07/the_history_of_.html" rel="nofollow">The History of the Shrill</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I guess it started, I think, with that extremely strange and not-very-analytical Svengali of the Bush Social Security reform plan, Peter Ferrara, who wrote back in 2001 about “the fierce, shrill, and unreasoned denunciations of allowing workers the freedom to choose a personal-account option for Social Security may impress the gullible… and denounced ..the highly irascible Paul Krugman…</p>
<p>That was, I think, the start of a very peculiar meme: a piling-on of critics of Bush–especially of Paul Krugman–whose sole criticism was that he was “shrill.” The critique was neither that he was a bad economist, nor that his accusations that the Bush administration was lying about a whole bunch of stuff were incorrect (indeed, one of Paul’s most vicious critics, Andrew Sullivan, gloried in the fact that Bush was lying about his tax cut. See <a href="http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2005/05/yes_andrew_sull.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/" rel="nofollow">http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/</a>….._sull.html). So if you wanted to attack Krugman, but could not attack him because his analytics were right, and could not attack him because his accusations of Bush administration dishonesty were correct, what can you do?</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>The accusation–the only line of critique–is that Paul “only sees what’s wrong with the other side, in fairly crude terms,” or–in shorthand–is “shrill.”</p>
<p>God alone knows why they thought this line of attack would do anything other than shred their own reputations. God knows why others took up this line of attack. But take off it did, both as a narrowly-focused attempt to degrade the reputation of Paul Krugman, and as a broader attempt to marginalize all who pointed out that the policies of the Bush administration were (a) stupid, and (b) justified by lies, and it took off both among the yahoos of the right and also among the denizens of the center-left.</p>
<p>Why did it take off? I think the reasons were well laid out by Nick Confessore:</p>
<p>“Comparative Advantage” by Nicholas Confessore: On balance, Krugman’s record stands up pretty well. On the topics he writes about most often and most angrily–tax cuts, Social Security, and the budget–his record is nearly perfect. “The reason he’s gotten under the White House’s skin so much,” says Robert Shapiro, a former undersecretary of commerce in the Clinton administration, “is that he’s right. None of it is rocket science.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and not to be missed is the <a href="http://shrillblog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">shrillblog</a>: THE OFFICAL BLOG OF THE ANCIENT AND HERMETIC ORDER OF THE SHRILL</p>
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		<title>By: racetoinfinity</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963101</link>
		<dc:creator>racetoinfinity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963101</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Go Paul!  Tell it like it is!  I like hearing truth spoken, whether shrill (which he wasn’t btw) or spoken in dulcet tones.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go Paul!  Tell it like it is!  I like hearing truth spoken, whether shrill (which he wasn’t btw) or spoken in dulcet tones.</p>
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		<title>By: questioneverything</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963099</link>
		<dc:creator>questioneverything</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963099</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;To Jo Fish, #13:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Never would I characterize Paul Krugman as shrill. Grassley and Kyl and Coburn are shrill. Krugman is smart and determined. If you don’t know the difference, go away.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Jo Fish, #13:</p>
<p>Never would I characterize Paul Krugman as shrill. Grassley and Kyl and Coburn are shrill. Krugman is smart and determined. If you don’t know the difference, go away.</p>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963098</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963098</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sometimes the snark/sarcasm tag is understood.  No one here is actually saying that Krugman is shrill.  But it becomes a means of sorting out how the TradMed will try to marginalize his perspective.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rather like how they’ve tried to marginalize most everyone who hasn’t swallowed the Beltway Village kool-aid&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes the snark/sarcasm tag is understood.  No one here is actually saying that Krugman is shrill.  But it becomes a means of sorting out how the TradMed will try to marginalize his perspective.</p>
<p>Rather like how they’ve tried to marginalize most everyone who hasn’t swallowed the Beltway Village kool-aid</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963097</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963097</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If the PO were to gain a foothold though, that might make them uncompetitive.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the PO were to gain a foothold though, that might make them uncompetitive.</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963096</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963096</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry folks. Perhaps I’m insensitive to “shrillness.” But what was it that Paul said that justifies the “shrill” label. I honestly didn’t see or hear it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry folks. Perhaps I’m insensitive to “shrillness.” But what was it that Paul said that justifies the “shrill” label. I honestly didn’t see or hear it.</p>
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		<title>By: BearCountry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963082</link>
		<dc:creator>BearCountry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/paul-krugman-on-this-week-the-argument-against-the-public-option-is-sheer-nonsense/#comment-1963082</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just being picky, but it is Roger Federer that would take you apart in tennis.  I don’t know how well Peter Federer plays.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Krugman never seems to present a nonsense point that can be easily refuted with facts.  The only way to refute Krugman is simply to dismiss him as politically naive or simply say that he is wrong, but not try to argue the facts.  Krugman is one of the very few, if not the only MSM pundit that Bob Somerby usually agrees with or has some very minor difference with.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just being picky, but it is Roger Federer that would take you apart in tennis.  I don’t know how well Peter Federer plays.</p>
<p>Krugman never seems to present a nonsense point that can be easily refuted with facts.  The only way to refute Krugman is simply to dismiss him as politically naive or simply say that he is wrong, but not try to argue the facts.  Krugman is one of the very few, if not the only MSM pundit that Bob Somerby usually agrees with or has some very minor difference with.</p>
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