Who is paying for the ads? whoever they are should run one ingrassley’s district explaining how Sen greasley is trying to force them ( by law) to buy private insurance.

So now we have the big GOP flip-flop. Now giving up liberty for security is a bad thing?

It seemed like only days ago that Big John Cornyn was telling us that libery is meaningless if you are dead.

Oxymoron: Principled conservative.

-G

But that little story just reminded me that I need to keep swinging.

DeMint is a swinger? Damn, the Republicans from the Palmetto State sure lead interesting lives.

What does Griffith and Howard’s political leaning have to do with
the point of the episode? After all Opie was 8 years old at the time.

I don’t understand. this guy wants somebody to beat the piss out of him ?

Yeah, it’s totally irrelevant that the guy who the show’s named after is a lifelong Democrat who supported the guy Jim DeMint compared to Hitler.

Left field!

It’s just funny; it’s like DeMint wants to claim the warm, friendly ambiance of the Andy Griffith “good ole days” for himself and his team, but out here in the real world, the people who played those good ole fantasy characters recognize our true obligations and what it realistically takes to get them done.

Come to think of it, those gun-totin’ Birthers *do* kinda remind me a little of Barney Fife! LOL!

Not to mention that in this bygone era of Mayberry, the upper tax rate was in the 80s.

Mayberry’s in NC.

NC went for Obama.

It ain’t yer mama’s Mayberry anymore

Hmm, DeMint’s not saying that the little guys ought to take matters into their own hands and bring assault weapons to town hall meetings, or shoot doctors, or blow up federal buildings all in the name of preserving freedom? Is he? Is he?

Because the wingnut meme is so invariably consistent, the scripts can only be coming from the same source.

If only it were possible for someone on the inside to flip and reveal where that source is.

Mayberry rejects your association of Jim DeMint of South Carolina with our fine progressive North Carolina town.

North Carolina, as most folks here know, is the valley of humility between two mountains of conceit (SC/VA).

The people who played the characters are both life long Hollywood residents.

I’d like to see Ron and Andy do a healthcare reform ad about now…

Did you ever watch the show?

go away son, you bother me

What with facts?

So how is it any more relevant for DeMint to be using a TV show from forty plus years ago to make his point?

What is his point anyway?

Yea, facts

Griffith was born in Mount Airy, North Carolina, the only child of Geneva (née Nunn) and Carl Lee Griffith.[2] At a very young age, Griffith had to live with relatives until his parents could afford to get a home of their own. Without a crib or a bed, he slept in drawers for a few months. In 1929, when Griffith was 3, his father took a job working as a carpenter and was finally able to purchase a home, in Mount Airy, NC. The Griffiths grew up in the ‘blue-collar’ southside of the town.

now go away

Typical Hollywood librul.

His point is that Obama’s trying to steal our lunch money.

OB talks live about health care to Organizing for America at 1130.
you can watch here:
http://www.barackobama.com/forum/live.html

Please do not allow the trolls to hijack this thread, I’ve seen it happen too much lately here at FDL.

Seems to me DeMint is legitimizing vigilante actions with the whole “The President was after me a couple of weeks ago. But if we keep swinging…” tone of his quote. He’s saying it’s okay to scream hysterically at town hall meetings, brandish assault weapons wherever the President is speaking, take out a medical doctor simply for doing her/his job. Simply astonishing that political rhetoric has reached this point…over healthcare, no less.

The insurance industry must be doubled over in hysterical laughter at being characterized as “Opie.”

Why Raven, I think the cute little thing wants you to adopt it. It’s racing around leaping and barking up a storm (or so the wee little thing imagines).

Watch out that it doesn’t piss on yer foot, though.

Oh, and it doesn’t understand about making a mess on the floor, either.

But do make sure to get it ‘fixed’. Otherwise you’ll prolly have to keep the pups …

;~DW

He has no point. He’s just reading a script sent to him from the reichwing talking-point factory. Need to get the scoop on that source, with a list of names. Is there an enterprising investigative reporter out there?

Facts like :

Griffith’s first serious health problem was in April 1983, when he was diagnosed with Guillain-Barre syndrome and couldn’t walk for seven months because of paralysis from the knees down.

On May 9, 2000, Griffith underwent quadruple, heart-bypass surgery at Sentara Norfolk General Hospital in Norfolk, Virginia.

After a fall, Griffith underwent hip surgery on September 5, 2007, at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles.

Do you really think he gets the above health care from the Obama plan at his age? Hip replacement at 81?

It’s worse than that! As Glenn Beck demonstrated on my teevee, Obama is pouring gasoline over us and is asking for a match! I saw it my own self.

“life long” really?

Griffith was born in Mount Airy, North Carolina, the only child of Geneva (née Nunn) and Carl Lee Griffith.[2] At a very young age, Griffith had to live with relatives until his parents could afford to get a home of their own. Without a crib or a bed, he slept in drawers for a few months. In 1929, when Griffith was 3, his father took a job working as a carpenter and was finally able to purchase a home, in Mount Airy, NC. The Griffiths grew up in the ‘blue-collar’ southside of the town.

Since real people end up dead or bankrupt because of a flawed and unjust “health care” system, it makes perfect sense that the Republicans would have resort to fictional characters to make their case to continue the system.

If Obama’s stealing our lunch money, what is the 8 year looting of the Treasury by BushCo called?

Is there an echo in here?

shooo

Doh! Stupid computer, I had to reboot before my quote of the exact same content could go through.

Great minds think alike, I guess :-)

Hey, DW. Where have you been? Missed you.

Good point, victoria.

Why don’t you read further down the Wiki. I doubt he knew he was a liberal
at 3 years old.

Great post just out about hate speech. Good overview of The Lucifer Effect – a must read.

It’s not stealing when it’s a Republican doing it.

Just like Dan Quayle and Murphy Brown. The Rs don’t know any actual, real, honest-to-goodness people.

Redistribution of Wealth.

Democrats in disguise.

Fun troll ya got here. Hey, is FDL liveblogging the Prez thing at 11:30 PDT? Don’t see a thread yet.

No, see Opie represents the ‘can’t afford/pre-condition/uninsured’, and the bully represents a serious illness or injury. The black eye is a paralyzing medical bill.

Andy was the government who was too busy with other problems to really notice. Deputy Fife was the insurance company, but Opie didn’t pay his premium so he didn’t provide any real support.

But at the end in bankruptcy court, Opie was proud of himself, because he was responsible for his own actions, and he made a difference in his own life.

DeMint is just saying you should be proud that you can’t afford health care.

I can with no qualms what so ever, deny that the 8 year looting of the Treasury by BushCo is remotely close to anything Democratic, whether ideals or party either one.

But nice try, thanks for playing, and be sure to pick up your copy of Troll Be Gone from the front desk as you leave

P.S. Responding to the troll is cooperating with its attempt to derail our discussion. Ignore the troll.

Prez on now.

http://www.barackobama.com/forum/live.html

Where do you get these guys?

Well you said “life long” I was pointing out that what you said was not factually true, since he apparently lived in NC for over 20 years of his life.

But you seem to be of the ilk that doesn’t like to let facts get in the way of your opinions.

I understand “flawed”, but what is meant by “unjust”?

Howdy do, Twain.

Been rather busy for a time. Moving house (lots of preparatory work for me).

Haven’t had much time to comment but have been checking in to read when time allowed.

Jane and Marcy have been knocking “it” out of the park for weeks and the rest of you give me hope, laughter and joy every time I check in.

Were ours a sane and rational society, thoughtful members of that society would be appalled by what has gone down recently … civility is disappearing faster than hope that Obama might, just possibly, care about real, flesh and blood humans … but corporate ‘persons’ and their faithful millionaire minions always seem to suck up most of the oxygen.

Fortunately, ours is not a sane and rational society, so we’ve got no worries.

DW

Sorry, I need to restrain myself. It’s such easy pickin’s. I’ll try to be better. Like a stray dog, if you don’t feed it it’ll eventually go away.

Ixnay on the ollstray. Geezus Louise-ous, we really must be winning if this is the best caliber of troll they can recruit these days.

[Moderator’s note: The first sentence of this comment was deleted because name calling and personal attacks, even when issued broadly to all who are present, are disallowed on this site. Any further attempts to create a contentious atmosphere among other commenters and readers will likely result in deletion of your comment. Please try to treat other with more respect. Thank you.]

Opie is the common hardworking American who just wants to go to work
and take care of his family. The bully is the government who wants to
take his money and give it to Otis because Otis won’t stay sober
and go to work. Fife is the hapless government agent who is here to help
Opie with his problem. Andy is off making political commercials.

Opie finally gets pissed off and takes matters into his own hands.

Got it?

Didn’t mean to harsh on ya.

* c r i c k e t s *

We have sections of the country just full of them as you well know. It’s just that with Jane getting more and more appearances on TradMed shows, FDL is being “discovered” by more and more of them.

Yes.

not a good topic here in NE Georgia right now

Oh dear gawd, Debbie W-S is on. I feel sullied by all the crazy today.

Fantasy land. How do you not increase the deficit?

* m o r e c r i c k e t s *

“Unjust” isn’t maybe the best word, but the basic idea behind using it comes down to this: I don’t think of health care as something that should place a dollar value on human lives, and make judgments that one life is worth more than another. I can accept that a person who gets sick may think “why me, it’s not fair” — life’s like that.

But everyone deserves to get treatment for their health problems. To give care to one person because they have money, and not provide care to another who’s broke? That to me really IS not fair.

Andy Griffith has been a lifelong (in voting terms) Democrat who has supported many Democratic candidates in North Carolina. He may live in the Los Angeles area, but he has come back and cut TV commercials, made endorsements, and stumped for Democratic candidates. He has not forgotten his roots.

Ah, liveblog over at Large Orange. POTUS up now.

Don’t worry, I’ve often given that same advice to others in the past, but I don’t always follow my own advice.

Actually I believe he still has a home in NC. I was reading how he traveled from his North Carolina home to be with Don Knotts shortly before his death.

Do you really think he gets the above health care from the Obama plan at his age? Hip replacement at 81?

My mother turned down an offer of a heart valve replacement at 93. She was on one of those “socialist single-payer” plans provided by the very same government you decry.

I’d say Andy would, indeed, get his hip replaced under Obama’s plan.

Go away, little boy.

See thread 60.

I had an idea a couple of days ago for a television show named “Mayberry 2010″. Forty-five years later, Mayberry’s only industry is a 5000-hog factory farm. In the pilot episode, the new Sheriff Fife issues tasers to his deputies…and, as the network PR flacks say, “hilarity ensues”.

By the way, Senator DeMint, in the Mayberry of 2010, Opie’s grandson has no fishing hole because of factory-farm runoff. There’s no health insurance for most of its under-65 residents either. Just “hilarity”… and whistling.

Cute baby troll doesn’t seem to know the difference between a thread and a comment…

Someone should send this to Ron Howard right away. He could put out a really great YOUTUBE to DeMints HORSESHIT.

Cute lil’ roly-poly troll! See how it gurgles and coos! Pudgy lil’ Cheetos-dusted fingers!

Well, let’s see. By taking the insurance companies and their 30% plus overhead out of the picture completely. By then letting folks pay some fraction of what they are currently paying to insurance companies, go to the government as health care taxes.

We would then be on a level economic playing field with the other industrialized countries and not starting out with companies handicapped with the insurance costs.

And if we don’t cap the tax at some artificial level, there’s even more money available.

And the insurance companies can still sell add-on policies for those who want to piss away more money.

See everybody wins.

No matter how good the intentions. Washington is a black hole when it comes to money. All the money that has been paid in to Social Security is gone. The politicians diverted it to other uses. The goverment couldn’t even run a $3 billion clunker program without screwing it up. What makes you think they can run a deficit neutral program as big as healthcare would be?

Yeah, we can thank St Ronnie of Ray-gunz for moving the Social Security into part of the General Fund so that his budget deficits wouldn’t look as bad as they were.

And I can’t quite call a program that has resulted in GM and Ford (and Toyota and Hyundai and Honda) recalling laid off workers as a screwed up program. It seems like it was a program that operated exactly as it was designed to operate – as an economic stimulus that also helps the environment.

And since Medicare and Medicaid are government programs under which a new health care program can be modeled, I take it you are fans of them (since you do seem to be a fan of Social Security).

The insurance industry employs about 2,316,000 people.

You may want to move some of that big cost saving money to the unemployment offices.

Actually SS was moved under the Johnson administration to fund the Vietnam war. Medicare is in worse fiscal shape than SS.

Double-teaming is so cute!

They’ll definitely want some of that universal health care once they’re unemployed.

But… but… Sambot will be paying for it! AAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHH!!!!!! It’s the end times.

Now you understand! Freeloader.

Grownups share with those less fortunate.

thread 60

?

Are you in some sort of time warp, that you cannot determine the difference between a “thread” and a “post”?

If, indeed, you meant POST #60, then, what does what you posted have anything to do with what I posted?

Indeed, the costs would definitely go down, over all. As in numerous world-wide examples, corporations would pay less, making them more competitive, especially on a global scale.

It seems you and your “friends” cannot see the forest for the trees. Step back and mull over the idea that making health-care portable and not tied to small groups as the US has now, will lower costs overall.

A lot of folks missed that day of Kindergarten it appears.

No matter how good the intentions. Washington is a black hole when it comes to money.

Just because the Pentagon part of government is such a sloppy black hole does not mean other parts are. Just look at Medicare, total administrative costs about 3%. No wonder no one wants to “privatize” Medicare, who could make any money competing with them?

Corporations yes. Government no.

That, or maybe it’s genetic. I know, let’s set up a death panel for those lacking the empathy gene! Oh wait, I’ve spilled the beans on our top-secret liberal socialist nazi muslim negro halfbreed eugenics program!!!

Less fortunate? No no — everyone who’s unemployed deserves to be unemployed! And they should starve and die like the freeloaders they are!

Hm. I bet that just gave the trolls erections.

BRAIN BLEACH, STAT!

Medicare is scheduled to go broke in 2014. What good does an administrative costs of 3% do when you are in the red billions of dollars?

So, because Medicare has been underfunded, it should be scrapped? Because that’s what it sounds like you’re using as an argument.

Maybe, the Medicare tax can be increased to raise more revenue.

Or maybe extremely high-income people should lose a couple deductions, or revert to a Reagan-era marginal tax rate.

Sometimes, I think FDL would be better served by being like 4chan, just so we could all post reaction shots to stuff like this.

Let’s see,

SS/ medicare tax is now 7.65% for the employee AND 7.65% for the employer.
That doesn’t count federal, state, local, property, etc. taxes. When
is enough enough?

How much are businesses that provide “health insurance” in today’s climate paying for the illusion that they are providing health coverage to their workers? Wouldn’t they be better served instead by the government taking over that expense, leveling the playing field with folks in Japan, Canada, England, France, Spain and the rest of the industrialized world?

I don’t know the exact figures but I think the cost is roughly $12k-$15k per person for “family coverage.” Wouldn’t that aggregate payment be better served as a tax, thus relieving the firms of the need to wade through the various companies as they try to find a viable insurance provider? It would also allow folks to not have to worry about pre-existing conditions. It would allow job mobility for those locked into dead end jobs.

Seems to me, the actual business cost of this proposal would wind up being fairly close to neutral for the individuals and firms both, with a lot less aggravation.

Or is it that you prefer folks to be in some form of business servitude, so that the business sets all the rules, without doing anything that might help humans.

New Rule #1: The people philosophically opposed to any taxation at all may no longer push the burden of defining acceptable tax rates onto the people who philosophically accept the necessity of taxation. Instead, the people philosophically opposed to any taxation at all must make their own statements as to the maximum rate of taxation they are willing to accept, and also demonstrate how the necessities of a viable society can be funded at the named rate.

New Rule #2: Citizens get to vote on the actual rates, and the people philosophically opposed to any taxation at all get the same one vote per person as the people who philosophically accept the necessity of taxation. Oh wait, that’s a very old rule.

The Public Option is not dead…it’s just on life support!

New Group – I Support The Public Option!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=236531335386

Tell Congress and President Obama that you support a public option component to any Healthcare Reform Bill.

Let your voice be heard!

All I want is not to have another government run program that has to be subsidized by the taxpayer ala The Post Office

What other government (or quasi government in the case of the USPS) programs are you against? Police? Fire? Money? Roads?

Do you believe that you can sit inside a gated community and be chauffeured to work and home and never come into contact with those that do not have? Do you think that will protect you from poisons in the food and air and air borne microbes?

Ah yes, what an awful holocaust to humanity the USPO has been, what an unmitigated disaster of cosmic proportions.

Wrong!

Corporations always find a way to take their “10%” profit, above and beyond overhead. On the other hand, Medicare overhead is 3%, and, no profit.

Government run programs can be just as transparent as society wants. Corporations, not so much.

You seem to be letting your hatred of government get in the way of clear-headed thinking.

No, Medicare is not going “broke” in 2014. Try reading the government reports, without that Faux News filter.

Who do you do you prefer to make a decision for a needed medical procedure for your child, a non-fire-able, arrogant, overpaid government employee that sole objective is to make it through the 6 hour day without signing anything and with a politician mandating what he can do, (deal with them every week) or, a for profit insurance agent that has to answer to about a thousand competitive healthcare providers? Each knows to make a better profit and life for themselves is to provide a product that is 1. Quality, 2. Fast, 3. Cheap. Pick any two. A competitive market would never allow any one company to provide all three due to every company striving for that three point goal. Introduce the one payer government controlled health care. Simply, when there are no profit incentives, there can be no quality, speed or price reduction. Tank all three. Quote Obama “ competition from a government plan — without high executive salaries and the need to post profits — could keep big insurance companies honest.” Great, who keeps the Billions in government payroll honest. Absolutely no one. Proof of what I’m saying is in the history books. Socialized health care in every country across the globe has caused hundreds of millions to suffer and die an early death. No exceptions. Will it work here, of course, our DNA is superior to the rest of the planet. Right. The so called not for profit government will not allow the government media propaganda to acknowledge that the government cut of the cash flow is far in excess to the insurance companies. The red stared fur caped progressives have been brainwashed into thinking that a for profit insurance company is a cuss word. Unless they are bleeding heart idiots that have no clue to planet history or they are arrogant self serving F… our children, freedom and the country no rational person could support Obama care. Freedom and capitalism built this country so that even the poorest have better health care then the other socialized countries. No government program on the planet has ever been successful. The progressive communist can call me all the names they want, I don’t give a s—- they are the enemy of my country and children and must be defeated.

Wow. Thank you for that.

That would explain the millions of dead and sick Swedes, French, German, Finns, etc. then. Thanks for clearing that up.

Yea, it dose, thousands, 15,000. of the elderly die because they can’t afford a air-conditioner for grand ma, France 2003, you are so liberal with “High Class” money to save the underclass. everyone should be equal, Hail progressive communism. Right. I’ll fight for freedom, rewards and capitalism. Float all boats.

Wait.
So far, you have been regarded as a commenter. Perhaps you would settle for a less bilious discussion of the actual issues, instead of a spit fight.
Bring some facts, some links, and your calm, and we can talk.

http://www.usatoday.com/weathe…..heat_x.htm

So let me get this straight. You are arguing that global warming should have been anticipated. But that is a sad and tragic thing.

Thank you again.

Is it speaking English? It looks like English, but it doesn’t quite parse. I’d like to respond, but I’m stuck.

Hey…

The red stared fur caped progressives have been brainwashed into thinking that a for profit insurance company is a cuss word. Unless they are bleeding heart idiots that have no clue to planet history or they are arrogant self serving F… our children, freedom and the country no rational person could support Obama care.

I was just trying to elevate the discourse.
To his credit, he did bring a link, and it was kind of on point.

You’re kind. Personally I’ve about had it with the flamers today — BTW where did they all come from? — but that’s my own failing, not airmaster5’s.

Great teevee appearances seem to attract it.
And I only got here in the late afternoon, so I’m still fresh.