Ignore the GOP, Obama. Everyone else with any brain matter already is paying them no heed. Join the parade. You can even lead it!

about that poll . . .

via HuffPo:

NBC/WSJ Pollster has Long Standing Ties to Insurance Industry

color me surprised

Maybe the White House has finally figured that out.

I’m not puttin’ any of my money on it.

Morning,BT! Morning, Pups!

From my inbox, looks like MoveOn and OFA might FINALLY be getting the message. Whether that’s enough, soon enough remains to be seen. I’m not sure their “message” is defined well enough for door to door canvassing yet. But, at least they weren’t asking for money this time.

Here’s hoping the tide truly is turning.

FunnyWheelieDiva

No one could have anticipated…

What are the latest numbers on people who want a public plan? It can’t still be seventy-six percent, can it?

Yep, all of a sudden I’m gettin’ emails from groups I haven’t heard from since the election. Welcome back, slackers.

sadly, that 54% figure is closer to the current reality – and was reading something over at Big Orange that the bulk of those dropping from 76% to 54% are scared outta their wits Seniors

I hope so. They need to wake up in the WH.

we can haz health care reform ??

The seniors are usually a prime target for the fear tactics of the Rethugs. They’re a huge voting block and don’t do change very well. While we have to take time to explain changes to them, the Rethugs can scare the hell out of them in 30 seconds. Continuing education. It ain’t just for professionals.

For me the big number is the 60% who support a complete overhaul or major reform because we aren’t seeing either from Obama. A clear majority of the country wants decisive, major action and Obama is trying to keep the old disliked and discredited system in place, and even wants to expand it. This is exactly what he did with with the financial system. In the Obama modus operandi this is a feature, not a bug, folks.

Dragon, how’s the pool of cess today?

How many firepups approve of how Obama is handling health care reform?

Umm… since the poll doesn’t ask provide cross tabs of favor/oppose among those that disapprove of Obama’s handling that data is pretty useless.

Yes, I would be on the ‘disapprove’ side of that question. I’m surprised it’s only 41%.

I’m not going to hold my breath, but it seems to me this is the perfect time to come out with “We tried to work with Republicans and they refuse to cooperate so we’re going back to the drawing board with HR 676.”

Medicare for All with a strong private option.

Maybe give it another week for the enormity of Republican lies sinks in to more people and then spring an actual radical reform — maybe the people will be a bit inoculated from Republican whining and lying this time.

yep, that 60% number reflects folks who think real reform is ‘on the table.’ if only.

All Obama has to do is put the faintest veneer of lipstick on an atrocious hog and most of his supporters will support it.

they thought they could do it without any lipstick but Jane Hamsher schooled them on that notion.

but any plan that imposes a mandate to pay into a for-profit insurance corporation is a hog.

where’s the polling stand on the mandate, I keep wondering?

Yesterday Grassley said that Obama and Pelosi were being intellectually dishonest over HC reform. Right now Gibbs is saying that the WH wants to continue working with Grassley. I was wondering how many times Lucy Grassley was going to snatch up the football at the last moment before Linus Obama gets the message.

It seems Rahm Emmanual or some similar Village Idiot is becoming annoyed with the hippies. This idiot is “mystified” because the lefties of the lib lefties are insisting that the President keep his campaign promises.

I myself think this anonymous statement is an insult to Democrats. This person is obviously working for those blood sucking parasite health insurance crooks. Also, calling this “Waterloo” is more corporate propaganda, and is an historically bad metaphor. Unless this fool means insurance companies are Napoleon and Dirty hippies are Wellington.

Borrowing a metaphor from Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC), an anonymous “senior White House adviser” expressed confusion about how the public option became “Waterloo” for “the left of the left”:

“I don’t understand why the left of the left has decided that this is their Waterloo,” said a senior White House adviser, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “We’ve gotten to this point where health care on the left is determined by the breadth of the public option. I don’t understand how that has become the measure of whether what we achieve is health-care reform.”

“It’s a mystifying thing,” he added. “We’re forgetting why we are in this.”

And let’s have some more democrats talking the Barney Frank talk.

how much credibility does the lead pollster Bill McInturff have? zero as far as i am concerned.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..63057.html

Maybe the White House has finally figured that out.

highly doubtful, since they continue their full court press to “Gaslight” the left on the question of Obama’s commitment to a public option. Today’s Post includes not just one, but two pieces that are an effort to make it appear that “the left” is crazy because they believed that Obama’s support of a public option was firm, and Karen Tumulty at Time has interrupted her vacation to help the “Gaslighting” along at Swampland (see comment 20)…

This [Pearlstein] story in the Post is interesting, as it pretty well sums up what I have been hearing from White House officials with regard to their views on the public option. As I noted earlier, this has been a consistent view all along. They–including the President himself–have never had the kind of commitment to it that liberals seemed to believe they had.

“We tried to work with Republicans and they refuse to cooperate so we’re going back to the drawing board …

did y’all miss this from Jane this morning ??

“Bipartisan” was always code for “no public plan,” something to keep the thieves stakeholders (AMA, PhRMA, hospitals, device makers, etc.) at the table and their money out of GOP coffers for 2010

this makes sense of everything we’ve been shaking our heads about for the last few weeks – everything! and of course smells of a certain tutu sportin’ rat (and the guy who handed him the car keys)

oh and p.s., Gibbs was still tryin’ to work this corner not 15 minutes ago in his presser

everything flows from here

I wouldnt say “Epic Fail” just yet, well atleast until Obama signs a bill with atleast a strong public option.

Do you generally approve or disapprove of the way that Republicans in Congress are handling the issue of health care reform?

Approve ……………………………………..21
Disapprove …………………………………62
Not sure ……………………………………..17

Money quote the GOP can block healthcare sure but 62% disapproval the next question is for how many of those people getting a better healthcare system is a deal breaker?
How many people denied health, insurance stiffed on claims, or even made to wait months before the insurance companies would pay are going to punish the GOP for this?
People taking care of friends, relatives who are sick long term, disabled, handicapped these people are all familiar with the system which is not a good thing for the GOP.
Just how many states would Obama have won if just 5% of the McCain voters either stayed home or went Obama?
Lots of people lost health insurance when they lost their jobs including McCain voters.
Caring for the sick they don’t have allot of time to go to town halls or answer poll questions.
The GOP is in for a surprise.

first post here,

I was wondering just wear all the supported disappear to after the elections i am glad to see the President is getting help from us the public. As he has said he can not do this alone.

But we all need to continue the fight of support

we fight the good fight they fight the wrong fight

Welcome.

Baby Jeebus on a Cracker, what a crock of $hite.
No wonder this “sr white house adviser” didn’t want to be named! Holy Clueless, Batman.

Shame on the journamalist for granting anonymity on this one.

FWDiva

If that happens Obama won’t be having his base energized for the next election. Sure saving the economy might buy him some grace but thanks to the half Stimulus that isn’t happening fast enough to help people.
Ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would buy him plenty of grace plus it would make a real healthcare bill affordable.
I don’t know the odds on that happening anytime soon I mean sure it could happen.
But if there were no progress on the economy or ending the wars soon then I would expect a low turnout election. We won’t be inspired and the GOP has much lowed approval ratings than Obama.
A low turnout race to the bottom for both parties could be the result. Granted given the GOP’s much lower numbers we would do better.
The GOP thinks that the normal rule about an angry nation turning out the party in power during an election applies.
They are wrong. I expect a third party candidate to show up for the next PresidentiaL election if the above conditions are met.

NY Times does some reporting. Viable choices or lack thereof of Insurance COS by State. http://bit.ly/L3HDQ

cbl2, I said I wasn’t holding my breath. I was just saying there is an opening here, if we only had someone willing to go through it.

And Undone, you said:

The GOP is in for a surprise.

I agree, the facts are in our favor, but Republicans have proven to be expert at twisting those around to get people to believe the exact opposite.

If Republicans block health care reform, people are going to be pissed, but there’s no guarantee they’re going to be pissed at the people who caused it to fail. Republicans and their allies in the MSM will try to blame it on the liberal democrats. Do we have a strategy to counter? Remember in the politics game facts don’t matter – perception does. In theory it should be easier to get perception to match up with the facts, but we haven’t seemed to do a good job of that lately.

The defeat of healthcare reform would be a great gift to the GOP, imho, and defeating it may unfortunately become necessary, if the final bill turns out to be a piece of sh*t.

Welcome we are fighting the good fight we are pushing Obama Left. This way he can move halfway to our side and still look like he is a centerist moderate.
We provide political cover, we argue for new ideas that lets face it the Media won’t cover until the Lefty blogs scream about it for months.
Where would Obama be on the healthcare debate without us screaming we want more? Heck the tea baggers have to bring guns to town halls because they are afraid that the Town halls will spur even more debate.
The Tea Baggers know they can’t win an argument with us so they have to stop the discussion.

oh gosh Sufi, if it sounded like I was scolding or correcting you, it wasn’t intentional – or what I meant :D

now that we know why they are doing what they are doing as explained by Jane @ my 23 above, (it’s just so damn stark and effing irrefutable)just want to make sure others don’t waste any more time pounding their heads on desk trying to figure out what WH is up to

Do we have a strategy to counter? Remember in the politics game facts don’t matter – perception does.

We have a strategy the truth but will the White House sell hat plan? I admit if only the blogs do it we are doomed.

Competition will work really well to drive down costs. /s
Last summer the dem. convention was held in the Pepsi center. You can’t buy a coke there but you can buy a 30 cent pepsi there for a few bucks. A few miles away you can go to the ball fields where you can’t buy a pepsi but you can buy a 30 cent coke for a few bucks.

“It’s a mystifying thing,” he added. “We’re forgetting why we are in this.”

They are in this for the money.

If Obama would just come out with where he stands, anonymous sources wouldn’t be needed. Guy does know how to speak clearly, and he should do so.

“Maybe the White House has finally figured that out.”

Heh. Not according to today’s news…

Yes, well good job to all then!!!!!!!!!

yes they really come unarmed mentally that is.

and i look forward to helping as well.

Is this too much? (getting ready to send to my Senators)

Dear Senators,

I’m disgusted by the degree this health care reform debate has been hijacked into political mud wrestling with no regard whatsoever for the facts and the interest of the American People.

Real people, with real lives are being affected by this. In the time it takes to read this message another American has gone bankrupt due to medical costs. This isn’t about your political games or your upper class friends expanding their empires. Real people are dying or losing everything.

I am absolutely certain any “reform” that doesn’t include a public option will just end up being a giant, expensive corporate welfare bill that benefits no one but the insurance giants.

I would prefer Medicare for all with a strong private option, but barring that, I would at least like to get a robust, viable public option that can give real competition to the insurance companies who have helped get us into this mess in the first place.

I hope, just this once, you’ll put aside all the horse shit and do the right thing. Support real reform with a real public option – or better yet Medicare for all.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your response.

Hell, 21% is good enough for the Republicans. They have only 40 in the Senate yet they seem to be in complete control. Obama wants to keep them happy.

Yes. Obama doesn’t seem to understand that you cannot shovel out a tank of sh*t without getting some of it on you.

Anonymus sources with the initials R.E.

and now… who can communicate that simple theme?

Might want to replace the word horseshit! ;~)

Brilliant.
*applause*

Yup.

Certainly don’t want to pull the plug on Grandma but I’m leaning to pulling the plug on Obama.

don’t worry cbl, I didn’t take offense. I recognized you as a regular which helps keep the defensiveness from kicking in.

Might want to replace the word horseshit! ;~)

Maybe “pandering”?…and Please support real reform…?
I still think it’s great.

Glad your on board:)

Yeah, I was thinking that was a bit much, but it felt good to let it fly.

Exactly.
Unfortunately, it looks like he’s still trying to triangulate and back-room deal his way through this. There’s not much to speak clearly ABOUT yet. And that’s just NOT OK at this point.

FWDiva

Unfortunately the noises coming from the white house since the “sudden” liberal revolt are already disappointing. Apparently, they are digging in on co-ops. They feel they havent “sold” them well enough to us.

President Obama is having an online town hall regarding healthcare tomorrow afternoon. I just found this in the comments on a HuffPo article. They are taking questions right now.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/aug20web

If Republicans block health care reform, people are going to be pissed, but there’s no guarantee they’re going to be pissed at the people who caused it to fail. Republicans and their allies in the MSM will try to blame it on the liberal democrats.

I don’t think they’ll necessarily blame “liberal democrats,” but I do think they will largely blame Dems. Why? Because they delivered to us a 60 seat Senate and a large majority in the House. But we weren’t able to deliver them the kind of change that they thought they bought into when they voted for Dems to capture two whole branches of gov’t. I’m not sure they will pick apart a reason enough to distinguish between Liberals and Blue Dogs. I think they will see a Pres who was wishy-washy, being for a public option before he was against it, and a corrupt Senate, owned by the large corporate interests of the country, just as Dick Durbin said they were.

That would have been good. I went with “hogwash” since we are a rural state.

May I steal this to send to my senators? It totally sums up my feelings.

Yeah…take another lesson from the GOP and re-brand? That’ll work!
Dear Obama Admin: it still ain’t Shinola, no matter how it’s packaged. Please stop trying to use it for brains!

FWDiva

Yeah, I’ll see the same thing. And I think most Democrats and smart independents will see that as well. However, that leaves another big chunk of the electorate that will be susceptible to Republican messaging.

Please do!

the use of “mystifying” in the sentence proves(to me) that it came from rahm. ive heard him use that word many other times when he was PO’d at a response from people who were supposed to fall in line for him

I’ll probably use “insanity” in my version, since I’m from Florida…

LOL, feel free to personalize it to suit your region.

I dont beleive now that the president was ever for a real public plan. i think the master plan was to get coporate approval right away, to get corporate money into the coffers. they are thinking ahead to congressional races, and whatever else they can use corporate money for.

When he first became COS, I went, “Well, he’s an a*shole, but that can be a desirable trait in a COS.”
Didn’t work out the way I hoped.

It’s really looking like Obama is not committed to any meaningful healthcare reform. Jane’s anaylsis about it being about keeping corporate money out of Republican coffers and in the Democratic ledger is probably closer to the truth. One thing to keep in mind about “Chicago” politicians is that they never had any hesitation about screwing over their constituents when it came to their own pocket books. The noise coming out of the WH the last few days has no silver lining. The Corporate States of America is here and Obama is their first President.

Obama is their first President

I would argue that he’s hardly the first. But it’s looking more and more like he’s definitely on the list.

A new poll shows that support for healthcare reform totally collapses without a PO.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/…..ic-option/

Woo Hoo! Another brilliant FDL research fellow has provided evidence unmasking another corporatist village idiot. It does smell like Rahm, trying to conceal his true corruptness.

Michael Smerconish, the conservative radio talk show host, will be doing his show tomorrow from the WH with Obama guesting. A handout to conservatives and a slap in the face to progressives.

It might be a good thing to have someone speaking the truth to the right.

Well, with some judicious editing, I just sent your letter to Bill Nelson. Thanks.

Tell the GOP about the government health care in Israel.

Wiki has a very informative entry.

This is just the first paragraph.

Worth a trip over to read in its entirety,for edification purposes.

Health care in Israel is both universal and compulsory, and is administered by a small number of organizations with funding from the government. All Israeli citizens are entitled to the same Uniform Benefits Package, regardless of which organization they are a member of, and treatment under this package is funded for all citizens regardless of their financial means…..Wiki excerpt

Jane’s theory is a good one. It’s supported by the facts. I’ve been wondering about this, too.

Beard the lion in the den. Could drive a wedge into their bloc.

Health care in Israel – Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaIsrael has maintained a system of socialized health care since its establishment in 1948, although the National Health Insurance law was passed only on …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Israel – Cached – Similar

Telegraph.co.uk The US health care debate‎ – 1 day ago
For instance, medical records in Israeli health funds are computerized, … and transferred to the health funds via the National Insurance Institute. …Jerusalem Post – 507 related articles »

Israel Has Rx for U.S. Health Care | Opinion | Jewish JournalAug 19, 2004 … Israel’s universal health care is characterized by its “national health … Universal access to Israel’s national health care basket means …
http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=12681 – Cached – Similar

Emmanuel has always struck me as someone who gets by more on shamelessness and self-promotion than on actual ability. He had the gall to take credit for the Democratic gains in Congress in 2006, when most of his chosen candidates failed to win. Someone even wrote a book about how Rahm was the architect of victory.

That might be an unfair judgment based on limited information, but he hasn’t given me any reason to change my mind yet.

I give most of the credit to Dean, and the dfh’s.

I think they have figured out that Republicans are worthless to them, but I think they found it out when the Sixty stood up and said ” No.”

Then Obama realized that, for all his worrying if any Republicans would join his team, he had to worry more about his fellow Democrats.

Thanks. I left this question, though somehow I doubt they’ll be, ummm, able to get to it:

Medicare is a successful government program. It’s more economically efficient than private insurance, and has much better customer satisfaction ratings. I’d pay for Medicare coverage, because I know I could count on it. Yet none of the bills in Congress support extending Medicare to those who want it, even if they are willing to pay premiums. Instead, another bureaucracy is being proposed to do virtually the same thing for a public option. Why?

This has mystified me almost from the start of the talk about a public option.

And I love how you are sent to a contributions page after filling out the form. All rides end at the gift shop nowadays, don’t they?

Same here. Dean and the various progressive blogs and organizations had much more to do with it. Didn’t stop others from taking credit for it, though.