Welcome to FDL Movie Night, where we’ll be discussing Good Food. And tonight, along with directors Melissa Young and Mark Dworkin we have FDL’s own Toby Wollin who also blogs at Kitchen Counter Economics to co-host with me, bringing a wealth of knowledge and love of organic farming and sustainable living. Our topics tonight are the inspirational documentary Good Food, the organic movement in Washington State and why buying locally and organically are so important. And maybe Toby will even give us a couple recipes! Here’s to a delicious discussion!

tap..tap..tap…is this thing on?

Welcome Melissa and Mark! I so enjoyed watching Good Food, very inspirational. You both live in Washington State–and did you find your subjects at the seattle farmer’s Market?

Thanks for having us, we are glad to be here.

Hi, glad to be here.

Yes, Lisa – I’m interested in that, too — I’ve got an inside track through Cooperative Extension here where I am, but it’s interesting to find out how this project developed.

We found some of our farmers at farmers markets, others through organizations that advocate for sustainable and local farming.

Hey, Melissa!!! So glad to have you here. Great film

Evening, Mark. What made you guys decide that this story would have a wider audience?

Hi, we were very interested in sustainability, saw local, sustainably produced food a place we could make a contribution, including of course social justice issues, as well as environmental, health ones.

My roommate and I were watching Good Food and and she was so struck with the idea of being flexible “yes it rained, so the berries will be in a week late” She loved the idea of being that connected with food and nature.

there are so many wonderful stories in this film – I especially love the Hispanic growers who started as field hands and who not only are owning the farms and orchards they worked but also who are sooooo sensitive to the people who are working for them now.

Great response when it premiered at Seattle International Film festival with many of the farmers in the film present – standing ovation. Since then it’s been in theaters, university courses, libraries, etc., many collaborations with food and farming groups. Tends to inspire people to get involved. Kind of an antidote to Food Inc, instead looks at where we can go.

Greetings, Mark & Melissa

Lovely movie, i was fortunate to see it.
The people you featured are sure a dedicated lot.

I’m afraid for me a total local organic diet is a luxury.
But the more we all can support local growers, local organic growers, the better — and the more local and local organic growers there will be.

When we began about 3 years ago, there were already some films out about what is wrong with the current food system. They made you want to throw up your hands in despair. We knew there was more to the story, and we felt that if we could present stories of farmers, stores, distributors, restaurants, who were doing things right, it would help people know where to shop and how to work for change rather than just giving up. We knew there was a lot going on in the Northwest, and we found there was even more than we had thought.

Heh..Lisa – that is the way it always is – there are too many factors that are NOT within your control, although it was great to see greenhouses being used in the film because people from other less ‘hospitable’ areas of the country (ahem..where I live), will know that this bit of technology can be a real useful tool for other areas as well.

I sooo want to eat at BurgerVille! what a great idea for “quick food” locally grown, sustainable tasty..yet meets that urge for burger and fries!

Yes, definitely the ‘empowerment’ versus the message of Food, Inc.

Yes, in this region a big transition to immigrants as farmers. Also elsewhere, although the immigrants may be from other countries.

Good point Lisa, food is alive, and living things cannot be confined to rigid schedules or treated like machines. We found our farmers and restauranteurs to be incredibly understanding and flexible, and many admitted it took some time to learn how.

Burgerville grub is terrific, had a grilled asparagus sandwich there this spring. They are really committed to local, sustainable food.

Thank you for raising Burger-Ville — I have a question because I think that although it was not explicitly stated in the movie, I think it’s out there in the Northwest, which is that people are real believers in ‘this is a special place and we deserve to participate in that specialness’. Am I right?

What is the right answer if the locally produced food isn’t grown organically, and the organic food comes from a great distance? Signed, ecologically guilty…

One of the farmers in GOOD FOOD comments that organic farming has developed markedly in the last 3 decades, and use of simple greenhouses has been a big part of that – extending the growing season at both ends, and providing a more temperate environment so as to reduce some of the potentially harmful effects of sudden weather changes. Another technique involves intense intercropping, so as to get more crops out of a small piece of land.

That’s what struck me, how committed all the growers/farmers are. It’s a lifestyle -in every sense of the word.

Yes, we, along with other regions, are proud of what we do. But other regions of the country also very active in local, sustainable food. We’ve met people in PA, CA, New England, New York, the South, etc. When we’ve shown the film, e.g. in Denver, people immediately get into discussing local food right there where they are.

The hardest part is if no one has brought food to the screening….

I saw the documentary just before dinner and I agree, those burgers looked so yummy.

Ok, now I’m hungry again.

I was very impressed with the way workers were cared for, and that there place was acknowledged as being so important–they bring us the food for the whole country and a lot of the world.

One of the things that we are seeing here in Upstate New York is a greater use of greenhouses, hydroponics, etc. Our frost-free season only lasts 3-4 months — to get farmers more income for a longer period of time, you see more use of greenhouses, grow tunnels, etc. The other thing we are starting to see is that farmers are returning to one of New york State’s agricultural ‘roots’ and that is growing grains. In the first half of the 19th century, before the Midwest opened up, Upstate NY was the breadbasket of the eastern half of the US.

If I had to choose I would say choose local, but in the long run we shouldn’t have to choose. When food comes from local farmers, there is a chance to get to know the growers and urge them to grow organically. Some “organic food” comes from very very far away, and we cannot even be certain that it truly meets organic standards. Plus, the contribution to climate change and the use of scarce energy that occurs when shipping food long distances, can create more environmental problems than organic farming solves.

Yes, I think that old “farm if you can’t do anything else” stereotype is dead. The farmers we met were some of the most ingenious and hard working people I’ve known, and very committed to what they are doing.

I wanted a a little goat for the backyard and we called our city councilman;s office. His aide said being asked if we could have a mini-goat was the BEST QUESTION EVER, but sadly it’s still a farm animal, so no..

LOL

Melissa – we have a county nearby, Tompkins county, which has Ithaca(perhaps you have heard of it; it’s where Cornell Univ. is) – and it really is sort of the San Francisco of the East. It has a huge farmers’ market, with a permanent structure, down by the bottom of Cayuga Lake and they have a waiting list for farmers and vendors that lasts several years — but part of that is a)the peoples’ ’sense of place’ about Ithaca and b) the fact that they can set up a farmers market and make a rule that everything has to be grown or made within 1-hour’s drive of the site…and they have a waiting list to sell there. Part of that is because they are in the Finger Lakes, which is its own climatic region in Upstate, but another thing is that farmers know that people appreciate good local food and are willing to pay for it.

It is time we appreciated and paid people well for that important work. Instead we often see the opposite, immigrant bashing. In this state in reality most of the farm workers are now citizens.

Egreg – when in doubt, go local — because you can actually go and visit, which keeps people pretty honest. “Organic” from ‘out of sight, out of mind’ means to me that i can’t guarantee that the label is actually truthful.

I LOVE that Washington State University is now teaching a course in organic sustainable farming, and that organic food can be found in major super markets. However has the standard of “organic” on labels been lowered to allow more non-orangic stuff into packaged foods?

As people all over the country revitalize local agriculture and began again to provide much more of their local food needs, the rural economy picks up, more people begin returning to the land instead of living unhappily in the cities. In my opinion we need more people living in the countryside, not as suburbanites but as true country people who want to help take care of the land in their region. And with modern communications it becomes much more possible to live in the country, grow some of your own food, feel the rhythms of nature, but also be connected to the events and culture of the outside world.

If you can make enough income from raising food to pay all your bills — then you are very clever indeed.

Good to hear about another example. They’re cropping up all over.

Mark – one of the problems/issues about getting more people on the land is that the skills necessary in many places have been lost, which is why the research universities and coop. extensions are sooo important. We live in the country and are in what is considered a rural school district – yet, my kids were part of a very small group of kids who actually lived on the land, raised livestock (other than pleasure horses), had the experiences of marketing to customers, etc. etc. The vast majority of kids who grow up in the country do not come from farming families or have not had farming in their family for a couple of generations.

Some ag departments are now studing what they call ag in the middle, that is marketing co-ops of family farmers like Organic Valley and Country Natural Beef which help people scale up to market more widely, and assure a more stable income. But it is a challenge under the best of circumstances. I hear from farmers at markets that this year sales are even or down from 2008 [which showed a huge increase over 2007].

You raise a very important concern, that perhaps “organic” is being watered down so big supermarkets can get more product. Lots of “organic” food is n ow coming from China. Nothing against China, but without adequate regulation and high standards, who knows what passes for “organic”? Remember melamine in the milk from China? One way to be confident is to see who certified a product as organic – USDA? Washington state, etc. The national organic standards set up under USDA are real and valid, especially after consumers defeated an effort several years ago to allow genetically modified food to be labeled “organic”. By the current standards, genetically engineered food, food that has been subject to radiation, food that has been grown with sewage sludge, these are not organic.

I love out farmers markets here in Los Angelels, and now one just opened up four blocks away on Saturdays, small and not as glamorous or as packed as the Sunday Hollywood blvd one, but walking distance! Shows there is a need and a way to fulfil it!

One of the things that comes out of the film – and I think this is a huge and important message – is that THE NUMBER ONE barrier to people eating more organic and eating more local is the pricetag that they see on the produce at farmers markets versus what they see on conventionally grown products at the grocery store. How can we educate consumers to the value of what they are getting? how can we educate consumers to the REAL cost of the food – the agricultural subsidies, for example.

I still want a mini-goat…

Lisa..come visit Chez Siberia and I’ll let you come out with me and feed the chickens and gather eggs…

You should join TMGC.

Great to have in your neighborhood, and you can get to know some of the specific farmers! We shop at a small farmers market on Whidbey Island where we live. I want those farmers to survive and thrive.

Sounds like a fascinating film. I look forward to seeing it.

Here in the Garden State thanks to the housing bubble being burst, the land that is left has a chance to survive. For all the downsides to this economic mess, that is a silver lining,

I have noticed the local chefs banding together with the farmers here to create a semi-official co-op in the last few years. Some restaurants now feature the name of the farm that the product is from, and there is a definite push on build a sustainable community between the chefs and the farmers.

The county that I live in also has a program for high school students to sell local produce at the farmer’s market. They do get paid, and I think there is value in the teenagers learning about the food chain, while the farmers get thier product to market.

Lisa – someone had to have called up someone to make that happen. What consumers do not realize is that they are part of the system also and they need to contact people and let them know that there is a need.

I put in a small wall fountain and now I get more bird, which means more aphids get eaten. works out well. Next year: pond for the egrets to drop buy. I dont think we can have chickens…though a neighbor did, and goose. I say had..I suspect they were food.

Great idea! Let’s hope that in NJ, things will slow down enough for people to realize that having NJ be more nutrition-sufficient would be a very good idea.

Well, we used to have a neighbor in the small town where I lived who have rabbit hutches in his back yard and..well..they used to disappear every once in a while. Rabbits might not be considered ‘livestock’ where you are.

Melissa and Mark — what’s the future for the movie? Where is it being shown in the US now? Festivals? conferences?

It still is a concern, especially with a down economy, that organic and local food tends to cost more. As GOOD FOOD makes clear, this is not because local/organic farmers are getting rich, quite the contrary, but it costs more to grow organically – you cannot use those convenient chemicals, so lots more needs to be done by hand. And good organic farms do not grow vast areas with a single crop, because this just encourages crop specific diseases and pests, so they don’t have the same economies of scale. But in a way, this is comparing apples and oranges. Local organic food tastes much better, is fresher and more healthy, and it support the local rural economy. So you are actually getting more for the money that you spend. And there are ways to keep the cost increase minimal – buying in quantity at the peak of the season for any particular crop and then freeing it is one way. People realize that there is a reason why a BMW costs more than a KIA, or a latte from Starbucks or your local espresso house costs more than a standard cup of coffee. We decided years ago that the extra price for organic food is worth it, and as more people do the same, a steady market for organic food, and the entry of new organic farmers will help bring the costs down.

mark and Melissa, I loved hearing about the microbes! People forget how important those wee critters are! My grandma who was a farmers wife in Kansas used ot say “In order to be healthy, you have to eat a peck of dirt before you’re 12″ Nowadays that’s be child abuse! but the idea was there are beneifical microbes in the earth–if we treat it right.

I’ve noticed that some products do carry that they’ve been certified under state or organization guidelines, Oregon Tilth comes to mind. I do find that more assuring then just organic.

This is something that comes up at nearly every screening. Part of it is the subsidies, part of it the federal irrigation projects, part of it is that we have become accustomed to paying the smallest percentage of our income for food of almost any country. A hard shift to pay more – we ourselves sometimes make the cheaper choice – but when I figure you are caring for the environment, and buying something much healthier, maybe I can do without all those specialty coffee drinks. We have to make sure the good food is available for everyone. Here in our community we have participated in creating a huge garden on the food bank lawn that is providing lots of fresh healthy food for patrons – who are also volunteering in the garden.

“Most of the public lands in the West, and especially the Southwest, are what you might call ‘cow burnt.’ Almost anywhere and everywhere you go in the American West you find hordes of cows. . . . They are a pest and a plague. They pollute our springs and streams and rivers. They infest our canyons, valleys, meadows and forests. They graze off the native bluestems and grama and bunch grasses, leaving behind jungles of prickly pear. They trample down the native forbs and shrubs and cacti. They spread the exotic cheatgrass, the Russian thistle, and the crested wheat grass. Even when the cattle are not physically present, you see the dung and the flies and the mud and the dust and the general destruction. If you don’t see it, you’ll smell it. The whole American West stinks of cattle.” – Edward Abbey, conservationist and author, in a speech before cattlemen at the University of Montana in 1985

[…]

The lives of grass-fed livestock are more humane and natural than the lives of animals confined in factory farms and feedlots, but their deaths are often just as terrifying and cruel. If they are taken to a conventional slaughterhouse, they are just as likely as a feedlot animal to be skinned while alive and fully conscious, and just as apt to be butchered and have their feet cut off while they are still breathing – distressing realities that tragically occur every hour in meat-packing plants nationwide. Confronting the brutal realities of modern slaughterhouses can be a harsh reminder that those who contemplate only the pastoral image of cattle patiently foraging do not see the whole picture.

http://www.foodrevolution.org/grassfedbeef.htm

Melissa, I read a story today (Washington Post, I think) about how in England, they are so concerned about the fact that they import 40% of all their food, that organizations, local governments and groups are basically offering up every square foot of unoccupied land so that people can grow food. In one town, they are even using the local cemetary and have mapped out every back garden where the owners aren’t interested in growing themselves, but are willing to let someone else grow there and share it with them.

Quite a few cities have made keeping chickens legal. In Seattle it is 3 per household, but sometimes neighbors band together. but they are also legal in a bunch of other cities.

GOOD FOOD has already shown at numerous movie theaters, festivals, and conferences, especially in this region, the Pacific Northwest. In November it will be on our PBS station, KCTS, and after that we hope it will go national. On our website – http://www.goodfoodthemovie.org there is a page listing upcoming screenings, but there are getting to be so many we cannot keep up. Copies are available from Bullfrog Films – http://www.bullfrogfilms.com – and the prices are on a sliding scale, but a lower cost for community and activist use where admission will not be charged.

Menedez does a lot at the federal level, and Corzine is shaky with continuing the preservation program.

I know of a couple organizations that work to preserve the land, and this is a golden opportunity for them. At the rate it was going, it was estimated that NJ had approx 10 years left before all the open land was either preserved or developed.

I’ve noticed that organic food tastes better and is more filling, so because of this I eat less at a sitting, and because it has REAL nutrients I am not slamming emptry calories to get what my body craves in vitamins, amino acids etc, os it actually is a cost cutting device in the long run…but that just may be my rationalization or perception…

In Denver we saw them break ground for a food garden on the lawn of city hall. Also visited some “neighborhood supported agriculture” projects where farmers are planting a number of yards in a given neighborhood and selling CSA boxes. Saw a beautiful front lawn of garlic! Of course, nearly everyone used to grow at least some of their own food. We’re eating tomatoes from our organic garden tonight.

Yay for this topic and movie!

Chickens are legal in Denver, and always have been. I didn’t find that out till this summer, cause I always thought they just were a no-no!

There was a major change in my garden this year; fail! – since neighbor cut down a magnificent 80 yr-old horsechestnut to build a damn garage. Anyway it changed the whole micro system for sun/water. So we’re taking measurements and seeing how we can map out the garden and chickens for next year.

Ah, yes; we have a ‘development rights’ program in New York as well. On the other hand, if I could do ANYTHING, I’d encourage farmers who want to retire to NOT sell gravel mining rights on their property. They don’t understand until it is too late that the laws on mining are not at all strict – and before they know it, they have a huge, water filled hole on their property with old rusty equipment in it, and no way to force the gravel company to complete the ‘project’, take out the equipment and rehab the land. We are losing a lot of agricultural land that way, I’m afraid.

Lisa – I think it’s more filling because it’s not something you can just ‘gum’ – I eat far less when I eat pasture raised chickens and meats because, frankly, they are a bit older, have more flavor and require somewhat more chewing than conventionally raised meat does. The more I chew..the fuller I feel.

We’re seeing some public policy in this region to help preserve farmland. Also land trusts and farmland trusts entering the picture that can help oversee land that is dedicated to agricultural use.

Stop by my house; I’ve got cabbage up the wazoo!

Good point that even livestock who graze naturally and live outside can come to a brutal end when slaughtered. Everyone has to make their own moral choice about this, since even if animals are treated kindly in the slaughter house they are there to be killed. For me there is no excuse for unnecessary cruelty, and if animals are allowed to live a decent life, preferably a comparatively long life, and if they are then slaughtered in a humane facility with no cruelty, it is okay. At Skagit River Ranch, which is featured in our film, the livestock are all living outside, romping and enjoying their lives, eating naturally and then slaughtered on the ranch, so they don’t even have the crowded and perhaps terrifying truck ride to a slaughter house. If you are going to raise livestock for food, I think this is the best way to do it.

Good for you – have you registered your garden with the Colorado Grow Local campaign? They are trying to come up with 2009 new gardens this year.

The taste of organic food can’t be beat. My father taught my brothers and I about organic gardening in the late 60’s, so I grew up eating organic vegetables in the summer. My mom would can what she could, so for the most part, we had organic produce in some shape or form all year.

Fun times going to his friends farms for manure on early Saturday morning.

Mark – the lack of slaughtering facilities (mobile or close by) is a major limitation for people who want to raise local livestock. We did not get back into pasture raised chickens until we found a local inspected processor that was close to us. For folks raising ruminants, the closest inspected facility is..in northern PA. it would be much better if we had mobile units that could come to the farms.

We actually started to buy and eat organic food, because we thought we should – to avoid potentially bad chemicals, to support farmers who were not wrecking the earth. But we quickly discovered that fresh organic food, just like food from our garden in season, tastes so much better. I used to be a big meat eater, vegetables were just a side dish to go with the meat. Tasting really good vegetables changed my mind, so while I still enjoy meat, I also love the whole range of delicious organic fruits and vegetables that are now available. And the meat we eat comes from farmers in GOOD FOOD, and it also tastes so much better.

Nope – didn’t know about them. But this is my first fallow year in 7 years, so it’s not really a “new” garden. And being mid-August, I’m already missing my squash, bean and basil haul. Damn!

As soon as tomato harvest time comes shortly, I’m just going to scream for lack of decent tomato!

Likewise it has been a problem here, the lack of slaughtering facilities, another consolidation of the industrial food system, which of course in some cases put questionable facilities out of business. We are now seeing the first of new mobile slaughtering units put into use in our region. Lots of farmer and consumer pressure, some public and private funding.

Mark and Melissa — given your experience with the growers, consumers, distributors, stores, etc. in making this film – what would you say are a couple of things that we can take to our local communities to get the ball rolling…or rolling faster?

I’ve read that the meal from factory slaughtered animals is higher in adrenaline and related stress hormones and we sorta get stuck with those… and they aren;t that healthy for us (along with the other problems with factory slaughterhouses)

Understood. Working in my garden is my psychotherapy.

The CSA’s in Denver and Boulder are sometimes called NSA – neighborhood supported agriculture. But either way, a system where farmers can sign up customers before the growing season gives growers working capital without being so dependent on banks and makes them more efficient. Since they are growing for a certain number of customers, they know how much to plant and they know how much money they will receive. This relieves the terrible financial insecurity of small farmers, who may have a really good year cropwise, in terms of producing more good food, but may suffer financially because greater supply in the marketplace makes for a lower price. With a CSA or an NSA, if the yield is great, the customers may get a little more food in their weekly box, but the farmer does not suffer.

you are a very lucky man, MM, very lucky.

You know, with the exception of my neighbor across the street, who was a farm girl, the other people on my block have always thought ti was “quaint” that we grew a bunch of food, and pickled and canned.

It’s funny now to be on the leading edge of a trend where people are going “Hey – we should probably be doing this.”

From quaint to cool in a mere 7 years; revenge of the garden nerds!

It’s important work. And the organizations do work together here since they know what’s at stake.

Here in NJ, in the southern part of the state is where the open land is left. What the gentlemen was saying in the film about needing the service industries for fixing equiptment, etc is one reason the farmers from the northern part of state have moved down here. They didn’t have the support in services they needed to survive becase all the land got developed.

Along those lines there is at least one town I know of now that requires anyone buying property to sign a agreement that they understand they are moving into a farming community. With that there are certain things that go along with that, such as tractors on the roads, the smell of manure at times, etc that are part of where they live and they agree to accept it.

This town has positioned itself as a farmer’s town, and they want to keep it that way. They saw the potential in keeping the services that farmer’s need, with the move of the farmer’s from the north. And it’s way of preserving the nature of the community.

After the all the disasters they saw of subdivisons, they recognized the value of what they have.

Mark – sometimes, even without a CSA/NSA, consumers can work with farmers. Whenever we buy from someone, we ask if they’d be willing to let us come up with a figure for how much we think we’d buy over a certain period and give them the money up front. Most of the time, we get between 10% and 15% discount when we do that.

Grow what you can, buy local food, put pressure on public policy for local, sustainable food. A town or city can prioritize local food. For example, Seattle has a “Local Food Action Initiative” The city council has approved a budget – even in this budget challenged time – to expand the pea patches rented to city residents to grow food, and other steps. The new program at Washington State University was the result of extensive public pressure from organic farmers and the Washington Sustainable Food and Farming Network.

Another specific step would be to make sure your farmers market vendors can take food stamps. In one market near us, a private donor put up funds to double the value of food stamps brought to that market – people turn them in for tokens worth twice as much.

Indeed, the best tasting grapefruits I ever had came from this organic co-op I used to belong to. And I do feel better when I eat organic. It just feels right if that makes sense.

What a great example! What’s the name of the town?

I love when my rosemary is blooming –6 feet of blue flowers and bees. and I use my herbs and stuf for cooking and candles and stuff. And on paper everything I do with my roses is “wrong” but they thrive. Nature is astounding.

I think it is true that animals treated cruelly and slaughtered in factory conditions do have more adrenaline and other hormones that make their meat inferior. In fact, rightly or wrongly, the principles of kosher slaughtering are meant to minimize this problem by, among other things, calming the animals and letting them die more peacefully. Then there is also the issue of what factory raised and slaughtered animals are fed – for cattle this is usually corn which actually makes them sick because the PH is wrong. Then they get fed antibiotics – which we end up eating in the meat.

Our county cooperative extension put in a system so that vendors can take food stamps; they also give out vouchers at the markets at their booths all the time. Recently, they organized two busloads of ‘you pick’ – the travel was free and the farmers accepted the vouchers there as well.

How cool too for dairy farmers in co-ops to know they’ll get a certain price no matter what.. But the pepper farmer in Good Food–what amazing pepeprs he’d cultivated and what a great story he has–said he hasnt raised hisprices..how is he getting by?

Mark – the Iroquois in NYS had an old saying about hunting: “You eat the fear of the animal you kill” – and since the meat of stressed animals is always tougher, that put the idea out there that minimizing the stress in the hunt was the goal.

Good to hear about steps taken that make it more possible to buy local organic food with food stamps. This can really help people with lower incomes be able to afford good food. Some farmers market in Seattle have taken an additional step. They found additional funding so that people with food stamps could actually double the value of those stamps at the farmers markets, effectively cutting prices in half for low income people.

Thanks, I was fortunate to experience that.

I even won an honorable mention at the Salem County Fair one year for a cantaloupe that grew in one of the spots where I had composted manure. The sucker came in at 7lbs. There were 2 of them at that size that year.

The thing was it grew on a board that I had used to keep some black plastic in place, so it wasn’t perfect in shape like the one that won.

Elmer, NJ.

I loved in the movie that the farmers at the markets were donating their wonderful fruts and veggies to the food pantries — low income people so much need nutritious and good tasting food. They have such poor access to fresh produce – it’s a wonderful thing to do.

And then, there are the dickish amongst us. Last harvest time, this farm near Broomfield CO was letting people glean; onions. So many people showed up, they parked on the side of the 2 lane highway, for about 1/2 a mile.

County Sherrifs came and ticketed them. Jerks. Poor people, hungry people, gleaning, ticketed.

The judge let the ones who showed up in court, go; the ones who didn’t were stuck with no show orders and warrants. Isn’t that sick?

Hilario Alvarez works hard, but also seems to be doing well. Lots of family work in his operation. I think he is leasing additional land, but sometimes the issue is finding farm labor. He sells at several markets, also wholesales, and the value added wreaths and pepper strings are a great fall offering at markets. He, as well as some of the other farmers in the film, have people coming to their stalls and saying they saw them in a film….Hilario also really encouraged us to make the Spanish version BUENA COMIDA because he wants to encourage his Latino colleagues to go organic.

OMG.that’s just awful.

YAY!!!

!!

sick and sad

I was also very impressed, Mark and Melissa, by the gleaners and the food bank programs the farmers have in place…could you tell us about those?

Last week, the DH and I had to go down to his ‘people’ in Florida for a family event and I spent a good period of time working on the nieces and nephews in terms of what they can do to make themselves more self-sufficient. THE hilarious claim I got from one of them was that it was ‘easy’ for us up here in Upstate NY to find good food – that they could not find local food in Florida. I gave his wife ‘the eye’ and she quietly reminded him about the two farmers markets in their town – I reminded him that with year round growing season, he could can, freeze, dehydrate and juice something every single day of the year and never do it twice.

wonderful idea!

It is true that some people don’t want to have any inconvenience, even if it is for a good cause – like gleaning or growing local food. We helped to make a movie, BEYOND ORGANIC, about Michael Ableman, an accomplished organic farmer and author, and his experiences at a small organic farm in the suburbs near Sta. Barbara. He had people complaining of the smell of compost, or the roosters crowing in the morning. His solution was to hold a free organic feast at the height of the season. After people tasted his outstanding organic fruits and vegetables the complaint died away, and some neighbors became fierce loyal customers.

Seeing eye goat? Or maybe get a Doctor’s note pets can help depressed people.

Companion goats. Definitely go with ‘companion goats.’

Gleaning projects are expanding, and some, like one in northern Washington, are made up of people who need the food. That group donates half the food to the food banks or similar programs, and then folks take home the other half. Other projects like the Small Potatoes project mentioned in te film are NGO’s and are mainly run by volunteers who don’t themselves need the food. At the end of the growing season in Seattle, all the people with city pea patches gather up the remaining food for food banks and other institutions. In our community the food bank is organizing a new gleaning team to help fill up their shelves.

Melissa – do you know if there are any ‘community kitchens’ up where you are, where people can bring in large amounts of food and get together to process and can, freeze, etc? It seems to me that this would extend the usefulness of what’s left at the after-end – make soup?

I think they just legalized miniature goats for people to keep in Seattle.

LOL! Seeing Eye Goat!?!?! You ever live around a goat? They’re untrustworthy I tell you! They’ll love you up one minute, then the next time you go in the yard, they’ll but you from out of nowhere.

For Religious Reasons you need a goat just claim your a Satanist but promise that you won’t sacrifice the goat.
Also what kind of harm can a mini goat do compared to a pit bull?

One thing that is receivng a lot of press right now in the progressive community is the stance of Whole Foods CEO John Mackey on health care
Comments from their CEO on unions and health care:

The union is like having herpes. It doesn’t kill you, but it’s unpleasant and inconvenient, and it stops a lot of people from becoming your lover.

John Mackey, chief executive of Whole Foods, said that while his company offers coverage, he worries that an employer mandate would lead to more stringent federal rules on what employer plans must include.

He said that would drive up the cost of employer benefits, motivating companies to end their benefits and instead let employees sign up for the public insurance option, figuring that paying a penalty would be less costly. This would result in eventual domination by the public insurance plan — something Mackey suspects is reformers’ secret hope.

“It’s a Trojan horse,” he said.

So farmers’ markets allow us to circumvent the corporate model of Whole Foods, and WF (or whole paycheck as we call them) has shown large chains–many of which are union–that there is demand for organic

Your splendid cantaloupes are great to hear about. We haven’t talked much about the satisfaction of growing food, planting, tending, and seeing your work bear fruit – literally. This is something everyone used to understand, until our world became one where food comes from the supermarket. It is great that so many people are rediscovering those satisfactions. Seattle has many people whom came here from other countries, especially Latin America and Asia. We know that many Hmong people who came from Laos, basically with just the clothes on their back, brought seeds with them of crops they wanted to be sure to be able to eat in the new land. And the varieties they brought are a bit different, so they are really glad they did.

I don’t know of any that are specific to that purpose, but they are being talked about. Right now, so many institutions have no ability to cook food, e.g. universities, schools, hospitals with no place to chop or grill, that having locations to prep food is essential. I heard about one project in LA that was funded by county funds I think. I hope many more will crop up.

Our website has a 5 minute preview – please help folks know. http://www.goodfoodthemovie.org. Also other links. And right now Bullfrog Films 800-543-3764 has a special running for non protifts with low price and some copies throuwn in. This has been great.

well, gosh um I do have a pit bull…and while I am not a satanist, some fundamentalists might claim by virtue of my Nature-embracing non mainstream faith that I am…we thought it would be a good pet for the lawn….but we’re goign for the pond to get more migratory birds instead.

I think that will work or maybe claim to be part of an experimental study about pets and depression which pets why and what about them keep people from being depressed.
Dr Kirk Murphy might be game to writing Lisa a note.

BTW Nnext week we have THE COVE, which is out in theaters soon about captive dolphin programs and the harm they do.

Melissa and Mark thnak you for a great discussion and for making Good Food. And Toby, thanks for partnering up wiht me tonight!

Looks like our time is coming to an end, and just as we are getting on a roll. Thanks Lisa and everyone at Firedoglake for hosting this discussion, and I hope everyone will keep growing and eating good food while helping to make it available to everyone.

Lisa – always a pleasure! Mark and Melissa thank you so much for coming and visiting with us!

Shhhsh they might be listening I’m trying to help Lisa get a goat but you are right a seeing eye goat for a blind person maybe not such a good idea.
I admit I have had no contact with goats but I greatly admire how they handle trolls!
Hey guard goat every blogger needs one for troll attacks. Gun nuts can bring guns to town halls but we can’t have goats?
Freedom to Own Goats Now!

Thanks Mark, Melissa, Lisa and Toby. I really enjoyed this tonight.

Sigh. We raised both dairy and angora goats and I can tell you two things:
1)there is not a fence made that a goat can’t stand on and pull down (except for one with a couple of strands of ‘hot’ wire and a horse charger on it);
2)goats are the cleverest creatures there are – we had one that could open the gate..with her tongue (and I am NOT going to go any farther on that topic – suffice it to say that we used to come home and find the goats all over the place). and yes, I watched her do it.

Pit bull and a goat Hmm I hope the pit bull is well fed and can handle an occasional head butt with horns without losing control.
But pagan hey that works Claim you worship the goat.

Sounds like a very intelligent pet

It is very satisfying. I traded a basket I had made for a story cloth from a Hmong artist one weekend. It was really cool talking to her, she filled me in her culture, and the next summer I saw her perform some of the traditional Hmong dances at this myth festival. I love the story behind the cloth, the Hmong coming together with others to worship in peace.

goats are very very clever. They are very picky about their food – eat up instead of down(which is why the Middle East is basically denuded of trees), and are great companions, have lots of personality and so on.

No wonder Goats get Gruff with Trolls

Goats are also one of the most intelligent creatures in the world when it comes to fencing. For the most part, horses won’t leave a fence- they’re okay with it- and cows, once they’ve learned the fence has a sting to it from either barbs or electricity, will do the same thing.

Goats?

Goats have a philosophical hatred of fences. I used to own goats, and they would break other animals out of their cages- we used to have a chicken coop in the same pen, and they broke it down once. They were always discovering new ways to get around the fences.

Amazing little bastards. I love goats.

As for the movie itself, I’ve always raised my own food- I live on a farm in Eastern Kentucky- and there’s something… sacred, almost, to growing your own food. It’s yours. Nobody else’s. You know what went on it when it was but a little thing, and you know how it was picked and treated afterwards. No chemicals, no additives, just what God and nature provide for the work you put in.

And there’s nothing quite like fresh cucumbers on a bologna sandwich.

Ma’am, I would seriously advise that you do not claim to be a Satanist to own a goat.

I just… I don’t think that’s good advice at all. :D

oh, I agree completely – we tried using this C-shaped gizmo from the hardware store that had a screw closing – it took us weeks to figure out that this goat was basically using her tongue to unscrew the closing and then tossing her head to flip the thing halfway across the pen so that everyone could get out for a romp. Our luck was that we did NOT have Toggenburgs, so we never found them on the roof of the barn.

On the other hand, I have to say (since we’ve raised both angora goats and dairy goats) that angora goats are the nastiest little buggers on the earth. Small, ill tempered, and a PITA.

Thanks Melissa, Mark, Toby, and Lisa -
Good Food indeed.

Hope everyone called the WH today to let them know what the “people” think about Obama’s caving into to either Rahm or the insurance lobby or the Republicans or the Blue Dogs. Take your pick. Obama is easy.

WH 202-456-1111

Unscrewing it with their tongue. Damn.

And we eat these fucking things! We should hand them citizenship cards and give them jobs.

Little goats are adorable, though, so they make up for it all.