If Obama winds up as a one term president due to this mishegas, he will only have to look in the mirror to determine whom to blame.

Nothing like Democrats winning office to be the anti-Republicans and immediately catering to hte whims of the Republicans.

I’m tired of living in Bizarro world. Can I go back to the real earth now?

The irony is that the Democrats, so desperate to avoid a replay of the constrained and hamstrung conditions under which Bill Clinton spent all but the first two years of his presidency, have by screwing their base yet again set up the very replay they so wished to avoid.

When Clinton most needed the backing of the base to fend off GOP attacks on the fake Whitewater “scandal”, the base remembered all too well how he spat on them as part of his triangulation moves, and looked the other way. And the Blue Dogs and “moderate” Republicans who he’d courted as part of triangulation moves either treated him like a leper or actively joined in the witchhunt against him.

Yeah Barack, why bother? Why waste the time, the effort, the political capitol…just give up on the change concept with regard to healthcare and focus on something you can win…maybe a national playoff for southern, white football teams.

The Democratic party is full of a bunch of pussies. First bullied by Sarah Palin (on Facebook, for Jeebus Xmas Sake), then by psychos like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, etal, and finally by a dipshit like Kent Conrad…and what do they do? Back down, of course. Never mind “the largest majority in 20 years, and the public gives him 60 Democratic seats in the Senate and 256 Democratic seats in the House.”

Hey Democratic Party Brass: Prove I’m wrong. Go ahead. I’m willing to eat all the crow you can feed me. So? I’m waiting….

Its long past time for progressives ( that includes any sane, humane, pratical thinking, non-homicide/white separitist fantasizers) to FINALLY dump the Demopcratic party. We need to get past personalities and celebrity. I dont know why Barrak Obama ran for president, it was clearly NOT to make a difference. Come hell or high water we need to drag a kicking and screaming debate into the 20th century ( i hold out hope that by 2050 -2075 we can bring the debate into the 21st century). I recommend all sane people of good will, who are commited to REAL CHANGE, to join the socialist international. If not the international, we need to come together somehow. This is hopeless unless we show that we mean it. I still like Barrak. He’s a likeable guy. If anything this shows us just how entrenched the corporate control of our government is. Let this be the end of two party domminance.

Yes.

People don’t like losers. And even if they disagree with you, they respect you when you stand for something.

Obama made too much of the public plan to just fold on it now.

I read this this morning and cried. What is Health Care Reform without a Public Option except an Insurance Company Booster Bill? Am I missing something here? What checks the insurance companies without the public option? Didn’t we just hear Barack in Colorado talking about how the public option would keep insurance companies honest? This makes my heart hurt.

The important thing is it’ll be bipartisan. Go Obama!

Screwed again.

Hey Democratic Party: Bipartisan This.

The important thing is WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT??? we have shown we have power if we come together. what are we going to do???

Well, now I know why I have refused to donate to anything the Dems represent until such time as we get what we worked so hard for during the election. I stand with Dr. Dean on this issue if we do not get real health care/insurance reform then we must reorganize outside the DNC, DCCC, and DSCC and work with him to get real progressive politicians elected and these DINO’s out to pasture.

I am hopeful that Dr. Dean and others will use Democracy for America as the hub of Progressive Candidates and we simply move away from the Corrupt Operations of the DNC, DCCC, and DSCC.

Enough is Enough!

Oh, and what’s the “mounting opposition”? Kent Conrad’s health-industry financiers yanking his chain? Orrin Hatch defending Palin’s lies on Meet the Press?

The GOP/Media Complex is squarely against meaningful health care reform. This is why the NYT article cited here doesn’t mention the six lobbyists per legislator or the $1.5 million a DAY being spent by the enemies of reform.

The GOP/Media will only pay attention to us if they think we can be used to hurt our own cause. (Which is of course why the Republicans have given tens of millions to the Greens over the years.)

I’m not sure what we’re fighting for anymore.

Conrad has to go. whatever happens. whatever the consequence. CONRAD MUST BE THROWN OUT.

Strange how the Dems behave like a minority party when they have the most seats. Seems as if it has become pathological and they would act the same even if they were the ONLY party.

Some bill that does something, through some means, I think.

“mounting opposition”

In their minds.

Hey Democratic Party Brass, take your medicine and the voices of “mounting opposition” will start to quiet down.

Maybe it is time to at least consider independent candidates, at least on a case by case basis. I am thinking the Indiana Senate race in 2010. So far there is no pro-single payer independent candidate, but if one emerged Bayh and the Republican would divide the conservative vote and the pro-single payer independent could walk away with everyone else.

Not for the democratic party. thaty HAS to be clear now.

For two and a half years Obama has campaigned on the Public Option. We shared his tears listening to stories about his mother and her fight with the Insurance industry, we cheered his vision and, dare I say, promises that a Public Option would help us. If he caves on this, I will actively work to defeat Democrats in 2010 and 2012. Why elect spineless lackeys of Big Business? Why not elect honest up-front lackeys of Big Business? At least with the Republicans we know we will get screwed.

“The Whimper of Whipped Dogs”…

Or something like that.

who are they. are they declared? submit them to DFA for support.

My feelings precisely. Many activists put themselves on the line for the public option on behalf of Obama and he just pulled the rug out from under them. The will think twice before they put themselves on the line a second time.

I see it as a playing out of fear, on so many levels. The fear of the unwashed masses as it is manipulated by the authoritarian propaganda machine is obvious; but the Obama administration is playing to a historical fear of their own. They are fearing the results of the Clinton administration’s failures going into a mid-term election; a failure which cost the party their majorities. What they are forgetting is that the people who did support this administration where primarily Progressive and bought off on the idea of change, particularly with regard to healthcare reform. Delivering a watered down result, just to be able to say that a bill was passed, served no purpose from a progressive standpoint. It wins nothing and puts the administration at risk of losing mid-term support exactly because they did not effect real change.

Sometimes it truly is better to have tried and failed than to never have tried at all. I would love to see the conservatives go into a 2010 election cycle under the banner, “We protected your annual double-digit health care increases, and defeated the administration when they tried to put a stop to it!”

My entire family worked hard in the deepest of a deep Red State to elect Obama. If he abandons a public option, that’s it. No more support for national Democrats for me. Period. FirePups, it’s past time to build a progressive movement outside of the Democratic Party. The late, great Michael Harrington participated in politics as a Democrat so that the Left Wing of the Possible might come to pass. But that was before Democrats became such feckless twits. Current national Democrats deserve no respect and less support.

you dont have to work FOR republicans, or AGAINST dems. lets start something new. let this be where something better starts.

There isn’t a single payer independent senate candidate in Indiana that I know of, it is just that is the states where circumstances are most favorable to victory.

Didn’t Conrad’s office deny he said that?

yes. they will have to come to us. i joined the socialist international. i am no longer a democrat. “independant” isnt good enough. i dont want to give tacit suppoet to right wing haters. thats who most “independants” are.

same pattern has played out many times before.

its time to put principles before party, and shift the burden of proof over to why should any Democrat be supported, given the party’s track record of taking for granted and betraying its most faithful supporters.

time to get rid of conrad. I will give until im starving to any organization ( save a right wing one) who will target him. bring on ralph nader. i dont care.

Well, at least he closed Gitmo, released all the torture photos and ended the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

for obama maybe. dont just go home. thats what they want. and thats what they expect. we must continue the fight without the traitors for leaders.

LOL hahahahahahahaha…..cry

Hey, haven’t you guys been listening? according to the president, Congress is in agreement on about 80% of the health care bill. So obviously, the smart thing to do is capitulate on the other 20% so that he can get a bill signed and get that check mark next to the issue when he runs for re-election. He needs to take it off the table so it won’t be used against him.

The fact that the 80% of the bill that congress agrees on is basically provisions to enrich the insurance companies is just a minor point and something that will never be pointed out by the corporate media.

Democrats, please grow a spine.

Tell the screamers at the town hall meetings that no matter how loud they are, they only get one vote per election.

Tell the insurance companies that the people who elected you don’t give a flying suck about their profits, and neither do you.

This is a huge opportunity. Don’t waste it. Stand true to your mission. Remove the disgrace to the Republic that is our current health care “system,” and make health care a right, not a privilege.

Where on earth do you get that? Barack Obama never made the public option the “centerpiece” of his campaign. That just didn’t happen. Talk about hearing what you want to hear. Well, he did he was a blank slate.

We can’t give up on the Democratic Party, because there is no ability to do anything if you’re not part of one of the two major parties. I saw this firsthand in Minnesota with Jesse Ventura. He had no support from either party in the legislature, so a lot of his good ideas never had a chance (yes, he was a decent governor).

I’m with Dean, any Democrat who votes against a public option gets primaried. Any Democrat who works against what’s best for people instead of corporations gets primaried. It took a lot of work to get the majority and undo the stranglehold of the GOP. Now it’s time for the next step, which is getting rid of blue dogs and corporate Democrats and replacing them with real progressives. We took back the government, now we have to take back the party.

That is indeed the question of the day. I think we have a good idea of where we stand in the grand scheme of the Beltway. OK, let’s build something we want while at the same time examining what we did and didn’t do over the last 10 years. We have a broad, inclusive vision of a world we would like to see; let’s walk another path and make it happen.

I’m not sure a bill without a public option will pass any easier than one with. You’re not likely to get many more Republicans, and you’re also likely to lose just as many (if not more) Democrats, at least in the House. Perhaps we’ll get a House bill with a PO and a Senate bill w/o. If so, most likely the PO will lose out anyway in conference.

Sorry everybody has gotten their feelings hurt. I’ve been voting for Dems for 30 years as the “lesser of evils.” Has their inept bungling of something as important as health care reform pissed me off? Absolutely, however I will still do what I can to keep Republicans out of office.

the only thing the goopers respect is strength.
you dont win by folding to their demands.
ditto the blue dogs.

sotomayor was a win.
they demanded she step aside.
dems pushed her through.

do the same on health care.
why dont democrats support the democratic president on the public option?

Not his campaign. His health care reform. Read the post.

Sorry, that’s what I meant. A public option was not the centerpiece of his health reform.

End of public option or end of Obama? This is a massive failure, given his landslide victory and mandate. The Dems have a special knack for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Given this abject failure, what can progressives expect to gain in the remaining time of this administration, while the right has already gotten escalated war and increased military spending? WTF?

Our 28th President was a deep thinker , not pushy , and had the corporate media slinging mud at his every move . He was against joining in a war where millions were being killed but the corporate media convinced millions of Americans that going over there and getting killed was a patriotic and good thing . What the media did not say was who would make a lot of money while our Americans died . The media and public got loud enough that the President declared war on another country so millions of Americans went off and got killed in places far away from home so some corporations could make lots of money .
Because of our health care situation thousands of Americans are either going into or facing bankruptcy , being put in the streets because they can not pay what is being charged , losing jobs because the companies can not pay what is charged , and dying because they can not pay what is charged to have regular checkups . With all of these situations in place that are detrimental to the lives of all Americans and designed by Congress and the corporate insurers , the corporate media and Congress has developed a large following of paranoid Americans that want this situation to continue . The corporate insurers and the corporate media along with their friends in Congress will make lots of money with the health care situation continuing as they designed it . What will these paranoid Americans get if they vote for more of the same ?

why dont democrats support the democratic president on the public option?

Maybe because he hasn’t supported the public option. A better question would be, why don’t they support the best interests of the American people?

Fuck Obama. There I said it.

Conrad represents 636,677 people. To have him do this to the rest of America is beyond appalling. He must have an opponent next time and I will be happy to donate. He is a small man, from a small state who wanted to show how powerful he is.

If there is not a public option what is being “reformed?” How is a “reform” without a public option anything more than a windfall for the existing insurance companies?

I read the article as a hit piece designed to create/increase the rift on the left. From the comments, I would say it was successful.

That’s the worst part. That that’s the best I could do over the last 30 years is vote for the evil of two lessers.

What was, then? Did you read the link, which compares his plan to McCain’s?

Conrad represents 636,677 people.

I knew there were a lot of lobbyists in DC but wow.

Look at how many the Gang of 6 represent and they’re the grand pooh bahs of health care reform for 300M Americans?

Doesn’t help that progressives are demonized as often by “moderates” as they are by conservatives.

The Netroots convention could have provided a real service to progressives and the country if it had voted a resolution breaking with Obama. It would have laid down a marker saying this crap isn’t ours. As it is, Obama’s policies which are largely Republican policies look to fail across the board and liberals and progressives will get the blame. Either we will be told these were our policies or that if we had all just supported Obama more everything would have worked out.

We’ve seen this movie before. Early in his Presidency, Bill Clinton caved on gays in the military. And caved on health care.

We know how this movie ends.

They should change their name to the Spelunker Party.

Kent is just a farmboy from the northern plains.
Practically Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.

SO true. i think you absolutely correct. “Liberals” and “progressives” will ge the blame because the corprate soft machine identifies anyone to the left of David Duke and Dick Cheney as “progressives”

Well, it’s easy to blame the Democrats and Obama, and I do blame them. But it’s also clear that we, a significant portion of the American public, also lack a real set too.

Because in Europe, when something like this happens, a national strike is called. And people really do stay off work, and assemble in the streets. Here, an effective National strike would work wonders, but no one will even have the balls to call for one, and even if they did, most folks would be scared to take part in one over fear of retribution.

Almost every big change that’s occurred in America has been the result of massive protest and civil disobedience. I see no reason to believe health care would be any different.

I’d say look at Dean and Jarrett at NN, Rahm and the Blue Dogs, Sebelius today. It’s pretty clear a public option is not a priority with these people. The Dems who have held TH meetings are scared shitless of the right. Kathy Castor (D, FL-11), next district to mine, is no exception. I’m watching but not liking what I’m seeing. We don’t have a bill yet but I don’t think I’m going to be surprised when we do. I’ll go from there.

Got most of his money from health professionals and insurance… how surprising.

Well, I agree. I said it wasn’t the centerpiece of his campaign. As I recall his main objective was ending cherry picking, which the insurers have said they would do since 2007 provided they had the expanded captive market.

Apparently fear mongering works.

Ya know, Bill Clinton analogies only go so far. This ain’t the 1990’s anymore.

“Dean”?? If anyone has been unequivocal in support of public health care its been Dean

why dont democrats support the democratic president on the public option?

What public option? or didn’t you read the post? Some of us have been saying that at best the public option was a figleaf. That it was going to be delayed until 2013 and cover very few, and that its content even to this day remains a mystery argued for that interpretation. Now even the figleaf is gone. You can’t exactly have reform if 98% of the plan is a sellout to the same old corrupt interests.

Agreed. However, blaming the people doesn’t get you anywhere. You don’t rally people to a cause by saying it’s your fault.

The president isn’t the key player now. The House is. Most likely they will take a bill to a vote first because of the Baucus delay.

In the House, the Weiner amendment getting strong support could improve chances of a real public option. The order of votes on this is important; as an amendment single-payer gets voted on first.

When the House bill passes, the Senate has a problem to deal with: take up the House bill or continue crafting a second Senate bill (one which currently doesn’t exist).

Distract yourself with the idea that the president controls the vote all you want to. A strong grassroots push on Congress is what will determine this. That’s why the opposition is astroturfing like crazy. The question is which grassroots will win: the one that voted for Democrats or the one waving signs with swastikas and Hitler and hammer-and-sickles on them.

Don’t forget Big Dog, stressing the importance of passing SOMETHING. Both sides have viewed it strictly in a political context from the start. There is no altruism in the corridors of power.

Not true. The”centerpiece” of his campaign ( to wit, “health care) was
“47 million Americans without health care”. that phrase was used over and over and over and over by Obama. Not the “greatest threat” to our economy is “cherrypicking”

Ya know, Bill Clinton analogies only go so far. This ain’t the 1990’s anymore

Does Obama know?

Yes, he’s for a public option but I was referring more to his mainstream Dem philosophy. He’s very pro capital, and says so. That often conflicts with progressive ideas.

Actually, he was quite clear. he said the Democrats have a “political imperative” to pass a bill. Duh. For them it is. He didn’t say this is a great bill. Early on he said that what he hoped the public buy-in would make it through. Obama’s President now. He pre-negotiated himself out of any viable public option this spring. Personally, he seems more interested in the rose garden ceremony than the policy.

I hope you’re right, but I’m getting a strong feeling of déjà vu.

Yeah, how could I forget him. Great speaker. Full of shit.

Obama cares more about decorum and civility than good policy. He should be writing a Miss Manners advice column, not running a country.

But just yesterday, Valerie Jarret said this at NN:

Ironically, when it came to policy questions, Jarrett hit all the right notes for the audience. On a public option for insurance coverage, which progressives hold near to their hearts, she insisted that it was and remains a philosophical commitment for the president.

“Let me be very clear and I talked to the president yesterday about this, knowing I was coming here,” said Jarrett. “The president wants the public option, he has made that clear everywhere he has gone.”

Yeah, so? He didn’t say that would be solved aby a public option. I am pretty certain nearly every time he spoke about health care reform, he started with cherry picking.

The president isn’t the key player now

Oh come on, in the current era of the Imperial Presidency the President is always the key player.

It’s okay to leave the wasteland. Build new neural pathways, so to speak. Do you really have any other choice? :-)

Not what I meant. I meant we were in the midst of a conservative era in the 1990’s. Today, we are not. It’s not enough to just say, oh, well, this is like the 1990’s.

fuck him.

It was suggested during the campaign that Obama was too cool–a man afraid of fighting for fear of messing up his hair.

I campaigned for Obama, knowing he was more ‘centrist’ than I wanted. I believed that if McCain/Palin held the Executive Branch, there was no turning back from a rightwing-theocratic-corporatist-surveillance-racist-imperialist machine. So, chalk off that illusion.

Now, what do I do?

to go Cheney thyself – individual act
to go bipartisan thyself – group orgy

this is just depressing as ALL get out. Thanks for nothing Barack!!

I blame Nader.

We didn’t have Fox News in the early 90’s. They’re even more powerful than Rush. If dedicated Democratic support for Obama collapses because he’s not fighting hard enough, the conservative era could easily return. And the villagers will dance.

We really don’t have any choice – we keep fighting. For our country, for our fellow Americans, and for our own decency. If we give up who will carry on?

This isn’t even centrist. It’s status quo. Just because things didn’t get worse, doesn’t mean they got better.

I thought doing nothing was going have disastrous consequences. guess that doesn’t matter any more.

I hate that the crazy greedy people are “winning”. What do the Kate Abrams “win”? The privilege of sending tithes to Blue Cross instead of Uncle Sam? Spit.

here’s what he knows, and old Rahm was there on the ground to remind him:

Bill Clinton and the DLC consolidated control of the Democratic PArty in the 1990’s and ran it as a fiefdom for themselves and their corporate backers, ramming through NAFTA and reaming millions of single mothers with their ‘welfare reform’ (an instructive parallel with Obama’s ‘health insurance reform’).

it has worked great for them, why change? there has been no significant bolting from the left, the default position is still ‘vote (D) no matter what’ and they get to rake in corporate cash, just as much if not more than the (R)’s.

they have no impetus to change, until people finally put principle before party and give them one.

your putting it mildly….. more like maggots………

The Public Option as Health Insurance was stupid.
The problem isboth for profit insurance and costs of the system.
The Public Option only address for profit insurance, and this is a chimea.

Kiaser Permanante is a non-profit HMO, doctors are emloyees, and its owns its own hospitals & clincis.

Here are Kaiser’s Rates http://www.synoia.com/Single_P…../Rates.htm

Even being a non-profit vertically integrated HMO, Kaiser’s Rate are expensive at any age, especially when compared with my 50 year old brother-in-law’s medical insurance in Canada at $40 per month.

Bullseye. Exactly. Welcome to the USA Inc. We are not a democracy. I have watched the “healthcare debate” wich fascination and growing horror. An Idea that had overwhelming poular support, will be defeated by lies and corporate money. NO majority is large enough to overcome corporate displeasure. If a large industry dosent want a law passed. IT WONT PASS. no MATTER how many voters want and expect it to. that is not democracy. im not sure what it is, but its not democracy.

I feel as if he’s just told me, “I don’t really care if you live or die.”
I had to fight to get appropriate care the last time I had a major hospitalization, because I don’t have a job or insurance.
I don’t care if he wins re-election. This one thing is what I’ve been concerned about for 30 some years. He fails at this, he has failed period.

You are so right. During the primaries, Obama was pretty much forced into championing some kind of hc reform vs. Clinton and Edwards. He did not support any kind of mandates (either business or individual), he offered generalities and not specifics, he cribbed together the policies offered by his primary opponents.

But now he has to take a stand. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

are you confusing “the public option” with co-ops?? kaiser permanente is a co-op. co-ops will have no effect on prices. they will remain high and coninue rising. If there is a MANDATE, to go along with the co-ops, then progressives in congress MUST KILL IT1 that law would be obscene, adding bitter insult to grave injury

Folks, is this a surprise? After 8 years of Bush administration and even more of republican control, corporate interests are so much more entrenched in our political/socio/economic system that they are in absolute control. Actually, they have been for most of last century with minor skirmishes with the likes of Teddy, Franklin and John. The federal govt is at the mercy of big business – wall street can cripple us at any time and would to make a point. I think Obama is merely coming to grips with that realization (or has known all along) and understands now that he is powerless to change anything in a meaningful way (he still had to try to save face). We are NO LONGER governed by a government OF/BY/FOR the people! Compromise is all he has… For those unwilling to accept this, revolution is about all that is left. And that my friends is unviable…

Ok, here’s a place to start. Go check out these Mad As Hell Doctors:

http://www.madashelldoctors.com/

Especially watch the video, send them money, and join their caravan if you can.

there was and is no upside to pre-compromising away our principles (see single payer hr 676, comprehensive universal healthCARE).

that, imo, was a mistake we should not repeat.

Yep. I no longer care if he’s re elected. this is final.

He has not closed gitmo
He has not prosecuted cheney inc.
he has not ended any wars
he has not reformed wall street
he has not reformed health care

YOYO just like you always knew we were.

I think people are maybe neglecting half of the statement: that co-ops could be an acceptable alternative.

It would seem to me to be possible to structure local co-ops that achieve most or all of the benefits of a monolithic national public option. Less buying power? Have a co-op of co-ops.

I don’t know, but it seems that this could turn out to be a smart, even brilliant move.

Appear to lose a battle, but actually give nothing up & win the war.

“forced or not” he KNOWS he was elected on the healthcare “reform” rhetoric, and that included a “strong public option”. during the campaign he even gave ( a small amount) of praise and lip service to the single payer idea.

I don’t think anybody’s talking about giving up. The Dems have taken our votes for granted, just like they took the AA vote for granted for decades. It’s time to show them that’s no longer the case. We have to approach the process differently. As Chris Bowers said yesterday, we have to get involved sooner in the process. We should now realize we have to get involved in the process in a different manner, not relying on the Party to be the standard bearer. Darcy Burner’s and Jane’s panels yesterday are worth a repeat look. Both speak to this issue. It’s not giving up, it’s doing it differently. I want to wait until we actually have legislation and see what it is and where it goes. But like I said earlier, I don’t think I’m gonna be surprised.

fixed link

http://www.synoia.com/Single_P…..0Rates.htm

I agree with your sentiment (as I do with nearly all who have commented on this post) but I don’t agree about needing an “end to the two party system”
If, in fact, the “public option” option is removed from the table, I think we will have viewed an actual end to the two party system. What will remain is a single “corporate party” system (with a right and left wing just to keep an illusion of choice and the public engaged)
Maybe we can use the power of the Intenet (at least until the corporate interests shut it down) to start a true second party…or maybe just a stronger progressive coalition…I don’t know. And I just don’t know how long that I can keep taking these hits/political disappointments to my progressive sensibilities. They’re wearin’ me down.

Ask yourself the question….. how and why is Kaiser a tax exempt corporations also considered a “Public Charity” for tax law purposes? Take the time to review the 990 tax returns of the corporate insurers considered public charities!!

http://nccsdataweb.urban.org/nccsTools.php

2007 – Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Georgia Inc (581592076)
2007 – Kaiser Aluminum Salaried Retirees Veba Tr Perry David L Ttee (686244507)
2005 – Kaiser Aluminum Supplemental Unemployment Benefit Plans Master Tr (911909234)
2007 – Kaiser Aluminum Supplemental Unemployment Benefit Plans Master Trust (946063445)
2008 – Kaiser Alumunum Salaried Retirees Association (680165262)
2008 – Kaiser Borsari Educational Foundation (911749100)
2002 – Kaiser Catamount Pride Booster Club (330870378)
2004 – Kaiser Cement Permanente Supplemental Unemp Benefit Plan (946063454)
2008 – Kaiser Elementary School Pfo (953764593)
2008 – Kaiser Familly Foundation (043494488)
2008 – Kaiser Family Charitable Trust (386685615)
2008 – Kaiser Foundation (366065158)
2007 – Kaiser Foundation Health Plan Inc (941340523)
2007 – Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Colorado (840591617)
2003 – Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Kansas City Inc (480924402)
2002 – Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of North Carolina (561421313)
2007 – Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Ohio (340922268)
2007 – Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Mid-Atlantic States Inc (520954463)
2007 – Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (930798039)
2007 – Kaiser Foundation Hospitals (941105628)
2007 – Kaiser Foundation Inc (840278210)
2008 – Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Int Inc (363145480)
2004 – Kaiser Health Alternatives (930954562)
2007 – Kaiser Health Plan Asset Management Inc (943299124)
2008 – Kaiser Home Support Service Inc (351509145)
2007 – Kaiser Hospital Asset Management Inc (943299125)
2007 – Kaiser Hospital Assistance Corporation (311779500)
2005 – Kaiser Palo Alto Employees Club (237424738)
2008 – Kaiser Permanente Asian Assoc (943310907)
2007 – Kaiser Permanente Labor Magement Partnership Trust (943382057)
2008 – Kaiser Permanente Nurse Anesthetist Association of Southern California (953615204)

Left ya one at Caturday.

How will the public option cut costs? Medicare is unsustainable.

The not for profit kaiser is expensive. Co-ops will hardly be better than kaiser or a Public Option based on the insurance model.

The VA model might work. The Medicare model is alredy broken.

What’s the purpose of a list of the names of Kaiser entities at 110? It contains many unrelated entities. The Kaiser Foundation Health Plan is the major medical provider.

The “premium dollars” collected by these alleged non profit insurers is staggering! Now add in the monies collected by the for profit sector!!

Please. Fuck that.

Democrats (including progressive dems) have always been too stuck on faces. Kennedy, Matin Luther King, Roosevelt. Thats great if your Dorris Kearns Goodwin and write histories for a living, but the reality is the Pres Obama dosent matter. Celebrity and being “loved” is less importatn than rsults. look at the way republicans get things done. some of their most effective leaders are universally despised.

I’ve never been as disappointed about anything as I am about the Obama mismanagement of the health care reform issue. Loonies think the end of live counseling reimbursement means a death panel – so the White House thinks it should be out of the bill. WTF? Conrad thinks public option is a waste of time – so the White House says – well if 7 people and 6 moose think we shouldn’t have it – let’s drop it. Kathleen Sebelius goes on television and says “hey that public option thingy – who needs it when we can fix this whole mess by giving the insurance companies some guidelines”. The CBO says more people will choose a public option and hurt the insurance companies and the White House and the Congress say – OH NO!!! We can’t have that. Let’s hurt the citizens of this country before we dare to mess up the profits of these corporations. Obama says we need to wait until 2013 because the insurance companies need to have time to adjust. Hell Pres. Johnson managed to get medicare in action in one year – and he didn’t have computers and internet and all that stuff supposed to make things easier.

If a Democratic House, Senate and White House can’t pass meaningful health reform and do it now – they never will. Basically they have handed the control of this reform to the Republicans and some Rep-light Democrats. When coops are the answer and they fail – as they will – any chance of real reform is over for the next 50 years. And The Dems have handed over the Congress and the White House to the Republicans because their mantra will be “see I told you the government couldn’t do anything right”.

I will be contacting every member of the Progressive Caucuses and tell them that they need to draw a line in the sand and say NO to any bill that doesn’t include a STRONG PUBLIC OPTION and that starts as late as 2013. Simply say NO. They should say – the American citizens deserve a bill that works and we will not cave to something we know will not. At least if nothing passes, we can try to elect real progressives in the next election and start over again. We need to put pressure on those progressives to stand with us against the insurance companies. If they don’t – there is no hope because President Obama has totally left us standing alone.

I AGREE. The U.S.A is a corporate owned entity. No law is passed that Big_____ dosent want. No majority is too large to overcome corporate will.

The co-ops have to be vertically integrated.

How do they negotiate with big Pharma? Import from Mexico?

Oh…got it wrong…..this isn’t about any reform or reduction of the for profit insurers in American healthcare access/delivery.

This is about shaking down American healthcare money makers for campaign contributions to get into the WH and then gaming the sucker voters who put voted you into the WH.

Now the for profits are collecting on the pay-ins.

Single Payer? Obama WH cuts that in the throat–there is no Single Payer.

This public option? The real “option” here was to string along believers until that gambit got stale then just whack public option or strangle it or let the for profits strangle it–but do strangle it.

So now where is the reform?

What reform? There isn’t going to be any reform–what there is going to be is a fix put in to pump up cash flows of the for profit insurers and other big players in American for profit healthcare.

Reform? Forget that. This is about having a license to conduct robbery.

Best runnig gag now coming to the fore is whatever this co-op BS plan turns out to be the for profit insurers will be “running it”. Not any governmental agency or department. There will be no public based or run “option” in American healthcare.

Why? Because that gets too close to opening doors to American Single Payer Plan.

Whats wrong with that then?

Whats wrong!?!

There won’t be any profits in American healthcare then!!

Expect a very grand kabuki performance from the Obama WH and the Democrats in Congress.before this stinkpile drops out.

Politicians get tribute. For profit insurers get license to rob.

What do just plain American citizens get? Great kabuki and little else.

“What do just plain American citizens get? Great kabuki and little else.”

We get Corporate Sodomy!

Reform? Forget that. This is about having a license to conduct robbery.

But it has all worked so well for the bankers, doncha know. So of course, the Insurance companies can’t let the banks get ahead of them in profits or anything.

This is a serious question, so I hope someone can answer it for me.

Why do any progressive’s support this administration and Barack “Hoover” Obama?

The constant stream of betrayals has been pretty staggering:

–voted for FISA amendment and protection of warrantless wiretapping (while still a candidate…we should have learned our lesson then)

–appointed Rahm “K-Street” Emanuel as his chief of staff. It’s a lock that he is at the core of Obama’s horrendous first 6 months. He’s basically the new Dick Cheney. Meet the new dick same as the old Dick.

–gave Geithner and Summers and any former Citi or Goldman exec the run of the place.

–expanded war in Afghanistan and has done pretty much nothing to end the war in Iraq

–refused to prosecute war criminals

–embraced state secrets privilege

–called for military tribunals

–called for indefinite detention

–failed to restore habeus corpus

–failed (so far) to restore controls over Wall Street (mark my words, the proposed office for consumer protection will be the “public option” of his Wall Street plans)

–promised to televise negotiations on C-span. He didn’t.

–blocked the release of the Abu Ghraib photos

–blocked the list of visitors to the White House

–weakened the stimulus and watered down 45% of the remaining bill with ineffective tax cuts

–took single payer off the table, setting up public option as bargaining chip that he now seems poised to throw in the trash

–DOMA and DADT still enforced

…and that’s just a partial list. The Democrats are, to quote Bill Mahr, the new Republicans.

Really, isn’t it time to slam the door?

Questions for our lawyers

1. Why is the age limit on Medicare (and SCHIP) not a breach of “equal protection?”

2. Are mandatory health insurance premiums for private insurance companies an illegal taking and unconstitutional? Even after Kelo vs New London it would be difficult to argue an individual’s insurance premium was a taking for a public good.

Can’t get action from Congress? File a lawsuit. There are other branches of Government.

I agree there would have to be some form of vertical integration, for just that reason. That is what I meant by “a co-op of co-ops”

It just seems to me that without knowing more about this co-op idea, the conviction that they will be absolutely certainly be less successful than whatever monolithic public option might have emerged see pretty faith-based.

Many of the current insurance companies began as in-state co-ops.

So yeah, let’s re-create a failed system with more of the same.

Wow, here I am selfishly thinking of my niece and her upcoming battles too, and too easily forget there are so many others like her.

My biggest issue my whole life too, and dammit I wish you the best.

Somehow I’ve now got the best damned care in the world, the best I’ve ever had, and really didn’t deserve it. Meanwhile others like you and my niece (just turned 19, diagnosed with cancer and diabetes, so once she’s not a full time student and still on my sisters plan, she’s gonna be uninsurable) will continue to face hell.

Goddamned I’m depressed, I’m pissed, and I’m at a loss.

FWIW, I will hope and pray for you and all like you.

if national reform to end rescission and enforce community ratings (preventing denial of coverage or different premiums for pre-existing conditions) please consider another state where you may be able to get at least that (see MA). i think there is quite a bit of difference now state to state and you might be able to find something for your niece (cancer survivor here, with insurance via bcbs in MA).

best of luck to you and yours.

Time to remember this gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

I’ve had enough of politicians with good intentions fold when times get tough and use the cover story that “things just take time.” In the context of this situation—bullshit. This is political cowardice, not incremental progress. Millions need help NOW, and they don’t need lame excuses or false boasting of “progress” which essentially defers the heavy lifting to the future.

Bring on a credible third party and I’ll be glad to consider it. I’ve had enough of progressives being expendible so that we can carry on the defunct status quo.

Serious question: would someone please provide the links to where Senator then candidate Obama staked his run for the presidency on a public option health care reform? or on health care reform at all? was health care reform even a part of his early platform?

I ask because it might help all progressives to check back on what the candidate ran on rather than what we may want to “remember”

Insurance? What’s that? Oh, I know – legalized gambling. We’re betting our premiums that something bad is going to happen. The insurance companies are betting that it won’t. What a f’ing concept. Get rid of ALL insurance concepts and institute a public safety net for all.

It is bazarro world. How did Obama let the tail wag the dog. Fornicate the wingnuts and just shove it through and let them eat cake. Bill Maher said it best with his new product, ”Growaset.”

“If you don’t fight hard enough for the things you believe in, at some point you have to realize that you don’t really believe in them.”

Paul Wellstone

There is no reason to overreact here. Jonathan Alter sums it up perfectly in this brilliant article.

Not quite, the insurance companies are betting that they will not have to pay for it.

Jonathan Alter has long been willing to throw out the public option , just to get a bill passed. It seems that alter is perfectly willing to accept a bill that takes care of a few, and forget the 47 million. hes always said this, and he says it often enough. i really dont respect alters opinion on this.

What is killing the public option? DEBT.

This new entitlement can only be payed for by spending money we do not have.
Obama has promised too much to too many…expanded coverage, lower costs, no rationing, no tax increase on the middle class.

TARP, the ’stimulus’ bill, corporate bailouts and takeovers spent nearly ALL of Obama’s political capital with the average American who were already concerned about the expansion of government and deficit spending under Bush.

When Obama and O-Rahma, disrepctfully, casually dismissed “blogosphere” pogressives, i could try look the other way,hoping that it was merely politics. They are deadly serious however, and i am not looking the other way anymore. WHO do they think put Obama over the top in the election?? If Pres. Obama thinks it was merely black and hispanic first time voters hes more cynical and dishonest than i ever imagined.

It just seems to me that without knowing more about this co-op idea, the conviction that they will be absolutely certainly be less successful than whatever monolithic public option might have emerged see pretty faith-based

I’m sorry but this is either silly or disingenuous. First, how is a vacuous figleaf of a public option in any sense “monolithic”? Second, co-ops can only have some bargaining power if 1)they cover a very large patient base and 2)that patient base represents a profit center for the medical industry. Now co-ops are going to be done by state so their will be a huge reduction in their bargaining power and those that join them are not going to be wealthier, politically well connected Americans so it will be the medical industry dictating to them not the other way around. On top of that, one of the primary rationales for healthcare “reform” was to restrain out of control costs. Co-ops will do nothing for that. They aren’t competition to the private insurance. In fact, the precise reason for proposing them is that they are seen as even weaker than a virtually non-existent, contentless public option.

Obama looks so weak on this one, even worse than Clinton did back in 1994.

Even with the biggest Dem majority in 20 years, Obama caved like a bitch to a bunch of Republicans who will hate his guts no matter what.

Grassley is laughing his ass off (and all of Congress) at that big p***y in the White House.

Obama, Congress thinks you’re weak and ineffectual, and you know, they’re right.

No one respects you now.

What is killing the public option? DEBT.

So lets end the two wars we are fighting right now and slash the DoD budget by cutting all the unnecessary big ticket systems (more nuclear subs, aircraft carriers, etc).

I’d imagine that would free up a LOT of funds to be used for health care for all.

Edit: And we can claw back the “bonuses” from the banksters that created the economic meltdown as well. But of course, that would never do for you would it?

B.S i call bullshit on you. The “debt” is only going to get worse if we dont start paying for helath care in a real non-lying/bullshit non- hide the money way. Obama KNOWS this. He has said so over and over again. whats ‘killing the public option” is corporate money. Insurance and drug industry insiders, and thier pet democrats on key commitees.BTW If you and Kent Conrad think this issue is going to go away if its not fixed, your bothg better at lying to yourselves and each other than you are lying to the rest of us.

Gee all that “whip” it talk and bluster and threatening. Didn’t work did it. Congrats for weakening the president and splintering the democratic party for nothing — for a fringe pipe dream.

Hey Solerso… and anyone else who is feeling a bit frustrated about this news about the public option.(or who likes George Carlin)
Check out this link, I think it kinds sums up the way a lot of folks at FDL are feelin’ about now…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..&NR=1

This new entitlement can only be payed for by spending money we do not have.

I am sorry but I am just not in the mood for this crap at the moment. We find trillions to bail out a corrupt, unproductive banking sector. We find hundreds of billions to fight imperial wars and keep a military many times larger than we need. But all of a sudden when it comes to ordinary Americans losing their homes, or their jobs, or being without or having only poor healthcare, then and only then we have no money. The deficit is too large. We can’t afford it. What an unmitigated load.

that’s a good one thanks. i’m going to have remember it.

…Welp, that’s the end of Obama right there. The Left will never trust him again if he can’t get the public option passed, and it looks, right now, like he can’t.

…Shit, and I thought things were gonna change.

great list! all the (D) apologists seem to have fled the thread . . . but it would be great someday to compare their list of marvelous Obama accomplishments against yours . . .

I think they are running on fumes, tribal loyalties, ’cause the best shot I always get thrown at me is that once upon a time, in Pennsylvania, the Green Party took money from the Republican Party.

That whole “we cant afford it” cannard is just a stock republitard talking point. its disgraceful to see corporate dems like conrad using it also. of course the rational behind “reform” ( bitterly ironic phrase now) was to control “skyrocketing costs”…..LOL suckers! the real reason is apparently, to funnel MORE money into obscenely bloated isnurance industry profits. fine. LET THE WHOLE DAMN SYSTEM BURN. then we’ll get some real “Reform” capital R.

This new entitlement can only be payed for by spending money we do not have.

we have a non convertible currency. it’s the state and local govs, households and employers who don’t have the money. that’s the debt problem. different issue when it comes to the fed budget. right now we need more, not less fed deficit spending.

that clown comment about “the debt” has been throughly discredited. In fact, most of the “deficit hawk” argumnets have been shown for what they are, a republican ploy. folks, the Federal budget isnt you personal bank accnt. it dosent work that way.

What is killing the public option? DEBT

But it didn’t kill the fucking bank or auto industry bailout did it?

Obama and the Democrats can afford $4 billion a month for Afghanistan alone!

Too bad Bill Cahir won’t be around to see what a marvelous outcome all that money will surely lead to – he just got killed over there.

http://www.lehighvalleylive.co…..edmar.html

his wife was expecting twins, as well. Maybe when they are older someone can explain to them why the least worst, which is actually only about .5% better, was worth sacrificing so much of the credibility the anti-war movement once had.

not burn, rot.

people get hurt when the sh*t burns – let it rot in its own corruption, build social formations that are rot-resistant, go in and clean it up. thats the hopeful outcome for ya.

Your idea of history and mine are not the same.

why the least worst, which is actually only about .5% better, was worth sacrificing so much of the credibility the anti-war movement once had.

WTF does that mean?

Progressives gave him the nomination but independents and moderate conservatives put Obama over the top in the general election.

Another history re-writer.

Ah, a Clintonista has graced us with its presence.

I agree, this dog don’t hunt.

“Too big too fail” became the CW and mantra of the administration. GM went bankrupt AFTER the government poured billions into it but the takeover saved the unions and the creditors were SOL. TARP money was funneled to Goldman Sachs and foreign banks…

Political capital was spent protecting unions and corporate cronies/donors.

The ’stimulus’ was a payoff as well.

And the problem with protecting unions would be what?

You do understand that the TARP and “too big to fail” came out of the Bush administration don’t you?

Why S.D. you know that the Unions are the cause of every bad thing that has ever happened to businesses and that the bad old unions are full of people who are bad people since they weren’t born into families that hate unions. /s

Don’t confuse ‘em with the facts. It upsets their whine.

No, I don’t think very many people do know. Why don’t we start a movement against FDR, Truman, and LBJ yea, that will work (Snark).

As a member of the IWW I must be their worst nightmare. Hope so.

Well, I’m no longer unsure. It’s clear you’re claims of being “indie” are just as much bullshit as your posts posit.

You’re clearly a happy drinker of the red Kool-Aid.

Enjoy it. And I sure do hope whatever you’re getting paid to spread these right wing talking points will cover your health insurance when rate increases of 22% a year continue.

Good luck with that.

I am not making a moral judgment about the debt, just merely stating that it has in fact, exploded under Obama to the point that Americans are very anxious about it.

Earlier it was asked if this was the moment progressives were waiting for, and it was…until the housing and financial sectors crashed.

No moral judgment, just a fact. Would the outcome been different, worse, if GM had been allowed to go bankrupt w/o government intervention?

The villagers and some democrats hated the Clinton’s then. Go read some of our so called Dem’s then.

You got it.

We’ll never know. I have to deal with what has occurred, not what may have occurred.

Yes because of the cascade affect, it would have taken out a large number of smaller suppliers, union and non-union. Suppliers that also supply to Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, and the other non US firms that have auto manufacturing facilities in the Midwest and South.

Which would have not done much for the folks in Alabama, Kentucky, South Carolina and the other strongholds of the anti-union movement.

Co-ops! What a great non-idea. Which is now what we get.

I was looking at it from a different perspective but you are absolutely right.

I saw this site on the newstory that ran on MSNBC “liberal bloggers watch Obama closely”. Then I come here only t see people whining about the Admin possibly abandoning the plan. Well here’s an idea:

Get off your F*ckin’ computers, get out there and support your President!

For anyone who has been discriminated against in any way this is your chance to speak out against those who are enraged at the idea that President wants to help those whose lives might be hanging in the balance.

This man is trying to secure the interest and well-being of 50 MILLION and the best you can do is standby and watch? If 10% of those affected responded, the real voice of America would be heard.

I sit here day after day and see the same thing, unity, but not by Obama’s supporters. No, I see unity from those who would seek to deny YOU!

It seems to me that if Obama winds up a one-term President and this country winds up with someone worse than GW, you will really et what you deserve.

BTW, I’m a taxpayer who would be minimally affected by this change. However, I remain in favor of what is proposed because it will in fact help those who are suffering silently.

Close your laptops. This includes the liberal bloggers who are “Watching Obama closely”.

Welcome to FDL.

Since you are new here, you may be unaware that FDL and partner sites has been leading the effort to force Congress and the Presidnet to do more than offer up PR plans that do nothing to fix the real problems in the current health care delivery system.

But if the President is willing to throw away any thought of having a strong public option available to all, nationwide, from Day 1 (to say nothing of refusing to even consider a single payer system), then I am obligated to fight him all the way. We are not ditto heads who will accept whatever is given in the name of some false unity.

And if Obama is a one term president, he can look in a mirror to see the person most responsible for it.

Neither the status quo nor a bail out for the insurance companies are acceptable

You might want to watch how broadly you use that brush. You’re assuming facts not in evidence. There are a great many of us here who have busted our asses on political campaigns, direct peace actions and other actions for many years. You want to waltz up here and tell me what I should be doing you better make an effort to find out just what I have been doing first.

Welcome to the Lake.

My brother was just down in South Carolina, closing two plants for the auto parts manufacturer he works for. I don’t see how it would have been worse.

Lousy management, a slumping economy, ntransigent unions and retirees that taxed the companies resources ALL contributed to the failure of GM. The administration chose to protect the unions, leaving a major part of the problem unsolved. Dems are beholden to the unions and are unwilling to stand up and ask them to make sacrifices in order to create a viable company that can profit, grow, and expand to offer products that sell, in turn creating wealth and opportunity.

I’m keeping my powder dry. The House bills still have to be Joined
and Hopefully they will inject some clarity it to this whole Deal.
September is crucial. Being a Cubs fan I’m use to disapointment. This However is far more important.
I for one am not ready to give-up on the Public option and still hold out hope that It can be incorporated. We are truely (sports metaphore) only at the end of the first half.
Let’s win the second half. This battle is not over.

Of course, there again, you are missing some facts. The auto unions were the FIRST groups to give back. They had been doing so for years, going back to bargaining in two tier wage systems.

What they wound up trying to hold the line on was also losing the pensions and health care that had been negotiated. Or would you prefer that all the unions NOT have pension plans but be forced to have only social security?

In actuality, GM was far better at funding their pension plans than many other organizations. And why wouldn’t retirees be intransigent? They had negotiated in good faith for their retirements for years. When Toyota, Honda and all the other overseas manufacturers have years of retirees to support, they will have problems and have to deal with it as well.

Well the trolls arrived at the end of this thread.

Get off your F*ckin’ computers, get out there and support your President!

This is the same line the wingnut right used when Bush was in power. It had no validity then. It has none now. The left side of the blogosphere, at least the one I belong to, isn’t about personalities or leader worship. It is about facts, arguments, and evidence. Most of Obama’s efforts are going into helping insurance companies, BigPharma, and the medical industry. It is really obscene for you or him to use 50 million uninsured as a political prop. If Obama had been serious about any of this we would have seen single payer or Medicare for All. If you want to support Obama no matter what kind of conservative corporatist crap he comes up with, that’s fine. But don’t expect the rest of us to fall all over ourselves to support his sellouts.

Perhaps Indie, you need to understand the fundamental difference between the economic principles of investment and expense. Investment means you front your money expecting to get a reasonable return, expense is money off your bottom line.

The stimulus program is not a “payoff.” It is an investment we make now to get a reward later on. And money toward a single payer health system is also an investment that will in time, pay off for taxpayers instead of deferring the heavy lifting of real and meaningful change to the future.

Stop being such a dupe for voodoo economics and the right wing’s obsession with debt which they think is the only talking point/scare tactic that resonates with voters. It is a fraud just like they are.

Well said.

Dems are beholden to the unions

This is right up there with “The media has a well known liberal bias”. The unions couldn’t even get Obama and the Democrats to pass EFCA. How lame is that? Democrats protected unions so well that their membership has been declining for decades. If Democrats protected them any better, they could find themselves protected out of existence. The assault on unions is closely tied to a 30 year stagnation in wages and concomitantly in the rise of the paper economy that has just about ruined us with its succession of bubbles.

The two MOST IMPORTANT elements in keeping costs down: negotiating drug prices, and the public option, are abandoned by the Obama/Clinton/Emmanuel administration.
Our beloved president seems to be lacking a pair. Can anyone think of ONE instance in which he has stood up to corporate power?

I’m not a progressive to be sure but I am independent.

Our government is just as corrupt, wasteful, inefficient, bloated and unresponsive as any failing corporate entity you wish to demonize.

The back room deals being made between Wall Street and Washington are bigger than better than ever before and we have the ‘Chicago Way’ to thank for that!
Bush may have been in bed with big oil but the Obama administration wasted no time striking back room deals with Goldman Sachs, Big Pharma, GE and others in an attempt to consolidate power, money and influence in DC.

Entrenched politicians who have served more time in Congress and in the employ of lobbyists, and political junkies who live and breathe the rarified air of the Beltway are out of touch and arrogant.

For a movement that is so adamant about keeping the government out of our bedrooms and off of our bodies, I find it astonishing that you would be appaled to see others wanting government out of their Dr.’s office and out of their wallets.

Do civil liberties, freedom and choice only apply to liberal causes? Are condemnations of greed and corruption only confined to GOP corporate intersts and politicians?

No government can successfuuly meet ALL the needs of ALL of its citizens.
Promoting general welfare is quite different from providing general welfare.

Like any successful business, the government must be well managed, efficient, and cost effective in order to create goods an services that meet the needs of the people. Our govenment needs to be seriously downsized.

I don’t believe this is true. I hope it’s just somebody trying to see what the reaction will be. I will still support President Obama even if he lost the battle for a public option, but let’s face it – this is a defeat. Against overwhelming odds the health insurance lobby and their Republican minions stood their ground, and they won. They won and we lost. America lost. Saying he did not want it that much would just be sour grapes. Pretending it did not happen will just lead to a face saving deal that will make the health insurance lobbyists happy. One thing for sure, if this turns out to be true, you can bet that lobbyists will be sending out more people to shout down politicians and prevent public discussions. Why not? It works right?

And there ya go again. The “Chicago Way” is the way espoused by the economists from the UChicago school of economics. That is the Milton Friedman group that has led us down the path of de-regulating everything because business can’t be bothered to deal with regulations on things like food safety, the environment, etc.

And the Government is by definition NOT a business. It is the business of government to do those things that have been shown to not be acceptable to leave to private industry. Things like the national defense, police protection, fire protection, food protection, protection against predators in lending and in business, protection from drugs that kill more than they cure.

Where were you in fighting against the Bush II administration when they were passing laws to allow spying on everyone? Where were you in the fight against the government reading everyone’s emails? The most common response I received from folks like you was “why do you worry if you have nothing to hide?”

Did the unions concede enough to make GM viable? Will Big Pharma contribut enough to make reform work? Or are they doing the minimum of what is required in order to preserve the status quo.

Do you see the government ever getting out of the auto business?

Sorry, I do not have faith in the government to run anything half as well as the private sector. No company, no government, is too big too fail.

I am deeply suspicious of any centralized government that seeks to do the bidding of monied elites and powerful special interests (and that includes unions).

James Madison, during the ‘Whiskey Rebellion’ reminded congress that a republican system ‘the censorial power is in the people over the government, and not in the government over the people’.

The same holds true today. Bush and now Obama and congress (both parties) are destroying all confidence in the federal government by overspending and overpromising.

I won’t believe it until President Obama publicly states he’s dropping the public option.

I think he wants us to go to these town meetings and stand up for the public option, which none of us have done except for online.

Do not Just Stand by and do nothing Contact Obama
http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/

Yes by definition it is NOT a business, but can you tell the difference these days? I can’t.

Do you live in Chicago? In Illinois? I do and I know exactly what the ‘Chicago Way’ is.

You ask where I was during the Bush years…I was slowly having my eyes opened…but I am NOT a progressive. I have more libertarian leanings but I am also willing to pay taxes to support services that promote the general welfare of the citizens. But I also think that state governments have a greater ability to directly respond to the needs and demands of their populations.

As far as the government reading our e-mails. Do you think that’s NOT going on now? What do you think of flag@whitehouse.gov?

Ah, a free marketeer. Libertarian? You’ll just be frustrated here. Oh, by the way, Friedman’s free market theories have been shown to be junk. Chile, Argentina, Poland. They’re trying it here but the results will be the same. Remember Einstein’s comment about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

To my knowledge the White House website does not mention a public option any official it’s list of reforms. I could be wrong.

I think that Obama has a deal and whatever comes out of Finance will be the plan he stands behind. Durbin then Clinton, McCaskill, Murtha, Nelson, Sebelius, Conrad have all laid the groundwork for the coming compromise.

And Hillary, propabaly the best salewoman single payer could have had is in the Congo.

Now we’re talkin’. The problem is, not loud enough. This and the associate websites actions, while noble, don’t speak loud enough. Again a person like me had to find this site by way of the MSM. That in itself is less than desirable. Watching these idiots day after day at these town hall meetings is pretty annoying.

No, not looking for status quo, blind followership or any of the sort, but if anyone supports health care reform as opposed to those who rather leave you in the cold with a cup off urine, then they should be out there fighting fire with fire.

The campaigns are over. Many of those these days who voted for Obama are completely oblivious to what is going on right now.

Perhaps I will be frustrated but I think that common cause can be found among those of all political inclinations to seek to make the federal government accountable for the greed, corruption, inefficiency and mismanagment from both political parties that is taking this country in the wrong direction.

Well the trolls arrived at the end of this thread.

That’s pretty good. I guess that’s what you get from the the self-proclaimed “left”.

Gonna say it again, SUPPORT! In this case it’s not about the plan. Let’s be real. There isn’t even a finalized one yet. The problem is that if the Admin backs down (because it supporters are on the computers) then it will not be seen as a bi-partisan resolution. It will be seen as a victory for the conservatives in that they “Stopped” the President from destroying this country.

You can bet after that no matter how many emails, online polls, and blogs are put out there, there will never be another victory under this admin. Period. Then you can bet there will be some whackjob who stands in the gap for the conservatives under guise of being the leader who will stop the spending. Imagine what kind of “reform” that will be.

Going to say it again SUPPORT!

It’s not about the plan itself, but the ability to let the public truly decide.

Because those whackjobs and the media that follows them have definitely portrayed themselves as “the” Americans.

If they didn’t, I wouldn’t be on this site now “trolling”.

I feel so welcome.

southern dragon you have been fighting (besides online and only in the campaigns) then the post wasn’t for you.

But if the computer is the only mechanism needed to fight, then I don’t have tell you anything.

The people at the townhall meetings have said it all.

What wrked in the campaigns won’t have the same strength now because those who are most affected by this and would add to the impact (or at least counter the effects of those who would deny) don’t even have a clue that this is going on.

Everyone knew B.O. was running for President.

President Obama in recent town hall meeting of his has mentioned the public option. Here he is talking about it at one of his press conferences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ohjO3BW5TY

Lucy. Football. Fundraising call from the DSCC.

What in the world are you talking about? Support what? From even before the election Obama has been opting for one conservative policy after another. I do not support conservatism. It doesn’t work. The Bush Administration proved that for all time. I will not support Obama and his brand of conservativism now. It still doesn’t work.

This is exactly the same thing as blaming banksters and failed car people for the failure of health care reform. Stupid.

Hugh, then my post does not apply to you.

But then again, you appear to support single payer, or medicare for all.

Sorry, I like having options. Therefore I would rather support him.

Yup. Over. FORGET ABOUT IT. Done, finished, kapoot.

Rethugs won. WE THE PEOPLE LOSE.

One term Obama.

Oh hell no, you did not just bring Clinton into this??? Is that how your rationalizing now? Obama is President. Deal with it. Learn to hold him accountable.

So? He talks about a lot of things. I have not see it ‘in writing’ on anything coming from the WH. I could be wrong.

Yes, what ARE we going to do about it? While the top progressives are partying at a circle-jerk called “Netroots” people like my wife and I, who knocked on doors, made calls, gave money and time, we actually showed up at some Blue Dog offices in the last 3 weeks, and went to a town hall to show support. SEIU? They weren’t getting their knobs polished at “Netroots”, they were at the town halls.

I guess it was all just about the victory last November.

I wonder how much fun they’ll have at “Netroots” in 2011 after the GOP takes back congress in November of 2010?

Oh, and “gattes12″ who would “rather have options” than “medicare for all”, I hope you realize that if the public option goes down, the only “option” you’ll have is to make sure you don’t get sick. Do you realize that people who live in countries with single-payer still have the option to buy health insurance or just pay out of their own pockets?

I enthusiastically voted for Obama, and think he’s done a good to very good job so far.

I’ve subscribed to the “12 dimensional chess” theory re: many of the positions he’s taken that I don’t agree with.

I’m African American as well, so you can imagine my pride & joy at his election last fall.

If he abandons the public option I will not vote for his re-election.

Because to me, that would kill my interest in politics for the foreseeable future.

It would signal that the ‘terrists’ (read GOP whack jobs & lobbyists) will always win even with what I feel is a good and decent man in the White House.

And, in my mind, he must pay for not going down with the ship (the public option) in the name of Rahm’s desired 15 and 0 record.

Look, let’s be candid; the ‘haves’ steal money from us in DC 24/7 365 days a year.

Why can’t we win something significant just once?

Especially when it’s the correct, moral, (and get this Blue Dogs) cost effective thing to do.

Then they can go back to doing what they do — stealing us blind everywhere else non-stop.

But at least we’d have decent health care coverage for a change.

Health care reform on the scale that progressives seek is only possible when the country is economically sound and the citizenry is confident in the ability of government to successfully deliver what it promises.

Would you add an addition to your house while the basement is flooding?

HUGE disappointment. Feeling totally dispirited right now. Oy. Where are the fighting Dems?

All wind taken out of my sails. There go my plans for driving 100 miles to town halls, etc. Turning off TV & radio news again. It was nice having a president I could believe in. 6 months. Oh, well…back to reading novels and ignoring the horrible reality out there.

Till one of my uninsured friends/kids gets sick or has an accident. Uh, maybe we can all move to France?

“Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it”

The nexus between Wall Street and the government is Washington DC.

Can’t you Americans do anything right?

Health care reform on the scale that progressives seek is only possible when the country is economically sound

Gotta stop you right there.

The same argument (which I find weak, btw) is made in varying forms at every major change we’ve faced as a country.

The time or economic condition was never “right” to end slavery, give women the vote, start medicare, pass the voting rights act in the 60’s, etc.

What’s more, the money is being spent anyway; it’s just going to emergency rooms and lobbyists.

And, as a side note, can anyone tell me what we are gonna do with illegal immigrants who contract Swine Flu, since they seem to be excluded from all forms of current legislation?

Do we still have those internment camps around (that we just finished apologizing and paying the survivors for)?

Can’t you Americans do anything right?

Yeah, but clearly we’re doing all we can to fumble the ball on this one.

Well, as a trial attorney, I always wanted that fu

I liked and still like Obama but I have always been concerned about anyone who thinks they can negotiate with insurance companies. I like John Edwards have been fighting them for 28 years. It is my job and these guys never play fair.

We desperately need a public option and I sure haven’t heard Obama demanding it like Howard Dean.

One of the basic tenets of economics is that what is good or bad on a small scale can have very different results if generalized. So if individuals save money when times are tough, this is considered a good thing. They are being frugal. But if everyone does this then you go from hard times to depression because you have dramatically decreased demand which leads to firms closing or cutting jobs which leads to more saving and again more reduction in demand. This is known as the paradox of thrift. Similarly, it makes sense on an individual basis to game the system as much as possible and so maximize profits. However, if everyone does this, you get the collapse we have seen.

As for waiting until the system is economically sound, the world doesn’t work that way. The reason that FDR pursued many Depression era programs was not because the country was on a sound footing. It was in Depression. He acted because it was either to do something or face revolution. As for the government showing its ability, single payer universal healthcare has shown throughout the rest of the industrialized world it can deliver better outcomes at lower costs than our private insurer system. So yes, government can do this but we need to keep in mind that special interests will do everything they can to sabotage anything that reduces or eliminates their power over the system, even if it works better and is cheaper.

Well, we have to the end of the year (Obama’s words) to get health care reform, so I’m not going to listen to Conrad at the moment. Isn’t he a Blue Dog anyway? Why is anyone surprised he’s throwing a wrench into the mix?

Let it be the end of the Dumbocratic Party. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once again. All in the spirit of “bipartisanship.” Obama, America’s first black president and likely the most naive.

Coops mean kicking the can down the the state level, no?

Zero chance my state of FL will build anything even halfway decent. Zero. In principle it’s a bit as if desegregation legislation were passed in a way that left implementation up to the states in 1964.

So what, now we just suck on this and wait for a gutted EFCA to be hacked to pieces.

This stuff just ain’t cutting it.

The economic reforms are meant to fix what’s broken and get our economy into good working order.

This means more than making the stock market soar.
It means more than keeping gasoline prices affordable.
It means more than saving some banks or helping homeowners avoid foreclosure.

It has to do with some very large flows of money out of America — oil and cheap labor.

It has to do with some crazy large flows of money within America — CEO pay, energy costs and health care costs and defense-industry costs.

The very large flow of capital out of America means we have to constantly print more money to keep our in-country economy properly inflated (think auto tires with a slow leak). That’s not healthy. We need more sources of home-grown energy and more competition in that marketplace. Sending less money overseas would mean more good-paying jobs here in America a money supply which is more stable.

The crazy large cash flows within America shift wealth away from the non-Rich, so (once again) the money supply has to be inflated to enable them to have the money they need for daily expenses. It also leaves them living on the edge of bankruptcy, so that any small (or large) disaster pushes people into bankruptcy. That’s why health problems and their costs cause so many bankruptcies. The pain and anguish that causes is enormous and the economic cost of putting all our money into CEO pay and health care means we can’t allocate it to doing other productive things.

The parts of the health care reform plan which might control health care costs are the ‘exchange’ (to promote competition), more use of IT to make the delivery of health care more efficient, more doctors & nurses & not-for-profit health care centers to promote the delivery of more low-cost care AND a public option to let people get more preventive care and less ER (expensive) care while engendering more competition in the insurance market.

Without the public option we would have to spend a lot more money on other price-restraint measures and we still wouldn’t get everyone covered and we might not save much.

But, I suggest, if we dont’ get the public option then we still shouldn’t bother with co-ops since they don’t do much good and we should instead focus on spend a lot more money on federal government funded not-for-profit health centers which would simply treat everyone at cost. This is the national health system the right-wingers hate so much and which hasn’t been suggested, but which would indeed control costs by eliminating any profit motive.

It would take longer to set up such a national healthcare network of care centers and that additional cost would be on the heads of the right-wingers who claim they’re against taxing people to death. Still, like a public option, it wouldn’t have to be a complete national-single-care-provider system for it to have a very beneficial effect in terms of competition no price.

Trying to stick to free markets just doesn’t seem to suit the fascist tendencies within the Right, so maybe this alternative would work.

Isn’t it funny how they rant about liberty, freedom and capitalism, but when it comes down to it they don’t like it all that much.

The comments here are starting to make me wonder: When did liberals begin to lose all critical thinking skills?

1) The quote is from the AP. Anything coming from the AP should be taken with a grain of salt.

2) These “signals” may be part of a bluff game. Please give the president at least some credit for having the political savvy we all know he has.

3) If I had a dollar for every whiny, defeatist comment posted here, I could fund the public option myself.

Howard Dean says there will be a public option in the bill and I believe him. Please people, don’t assume too much right now. At least wait until you see the final product before you throw our president under the bus.

“1) The quote is from the AP. Anything coming from the AP should be taken with a grain of salt.”

Yes.

At least wait until you see the final product before you throw our president under the bus.

I’m with you in spirit, but it needs to be known by the White House in advance that losing the public option will be political suicide.

Once that is made clear, they are free to play whatever multi dimensional chess game with Congress their heart desires.

Indie:

Listen to what Mussolini said and listen well:

“Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism, because it is the merger of corporate and governmental power.”

The unintended consequence of a “free market” will always be monoplolization as the economically strong drive out the economically weak. The unintended consequence of regulation is that it prevents monopoly in ways never expected.

When free market dogma flourishes, as it has for the last 50 years, and which was greatly fertilized by Reagan and the Republicans in power since, economic power is consolidated into the hands of fewer and fewer people. When that happens the economic power buys the government it wants and that is fascism as Mussolini described it. I. G. Farben, and the other large corporations of Germany, put Hitler in power.

When the economic powers of the US want the government’s money, they get it. When the economic powers want wars, they get it. When the economic powers don’t want something they get that as well.

Fascism is the modern version of feudalism. We are all becoming serfs to our new nobles, the corporations.

75% of the people wanted a public option. They wanted the government to spend some of their hard earned dollars on them for a change. And once again the vast consolidated economic powers, which now seem to thoroughly control our government, have denied the people what they want. Again.

It is not about the money. It is not about the debt. It is about the economically powerful controlling the government and getting what they want every single time.

That is why we are so angry, and why we will not shut up. I will not whistle on the way to serfdom.

But hey, we get Health Care Co-ops! They are working quite well in..in…well, maybe NO ONE ANYWHERE HAS EVER TRIED THEM! but you can bet that Kent has thought it all through, well at least beyond the late night brain storming session between him and his staff, none of whom have a back ground in health care, where the idea first appeared. Jesus, we are so screwed!

Maybe the Republicans were right. Stopping health care would be the death of the Democrats. Certainly looks like they are about to implode on this issue. :(

A few weeks ago the DNC called me to ask for money. I told him I would donate if he could name one thing that the Government has done in the last 35 years, that was done for and only for the purpose of improving the economic situation of the American people. He replied pretty quickly with the rise in minimum wage, I said that did benefit a small segement of society, but was done with a lot of input from industry, I wanted something that was done solely for the good of the American people without consideration for how it effected Business. He couldn’t answer, I can’t either.

Help start a new party. It may or may not survive. But if it doesn’t it will be because the Democrats and Obama turn left.

You are right. There is nothing wrong with letting it be known that the PO is a must.

The Democrats need to take control of their party. Because right at the minute the Republicans are running it.

It looks like they are throwing water on the fire. Administration Official: “Sebelius Misspoke.”

Why not contact the White House (Whitehouse.gov/) and let the Administration know that ditching a “public option” is not an option? Medicare for all (another version of public option) is yet another course. I have sent an email and will follow up with a snail mail. Millions sending the same message might be the “cavalry” that they are “waiting for”. Obviously “hope” is not going to get us all the way, so time to get more directly involved.

The health care “co-ops” option just keeps the fox (the insurance industry) in charge of the “henhouse” dictating terms and only realizes a partial reduction in premiums as it enlarges the numbers covered.

Medicare got passed, not necessarily out of the goodness of Congress’ heart. Just think of the high dollar demographic that Medicare took off of private insurer’s rolls, sort of a “win-win” for all concerned that the far right continues to complain about but their base would never want to lose. It is abundantly obvious that most of those showing up at town halls do not understand that Medicare is a government program.

If we can fund a bailout for Wall Street and banks, too big to fail, we can afford to find the funding for healthcare.

Sorry Indie, The debt problem is not significant if we want something. We can always raise marginal tax rates to where they were under Reagan, and pass Medicare for All, and the financial problem would be solved for the present. Of course, we’d then have to control costs. But it would be a lot easier to do that if Medicare was the insurer for everyone and the insurance companies were out of the picture. Our problem is not debt. It’s political will.

Frankly, Fuck “the president” if he is too concerned with pleasing the corporate crowd, and “the party” cant even get “change” with a super majority. most of us couldnt care less about celebrities in “the party”. we will make “the party” come to us.

You will probably be waiting for an eternity.

It is always about what big business wants. Paul Krugman posted an article this week about another recently busted myth, that America is a great small business country. Well, apparently not. Of the forty top economic powers, we are at the bottom when it comes to most measurements of small business.

Makes sense. Why would it be when big business gets to make all the rules? Can’t have competition.

And of course Krugman pointed out that small business could be much more competitive if there was a public option for health care and we might actually be having a thriving small business community if we had a public option or single payer. Many entrepreneurs might take the chance to strike out on their own if they had a public option or single payer as a safety net.

But it seems like the economic powers that be want to keep the health care albatross around the necks of small business as well as for the American citizens.

I am so pissed about this since I have a 25 year old daughter who has no health care and nor does her 24 year old boyfriend. My 30 year old son in law was without it for six months a year ago. My 29 year old daughter has a good job and she has been able to keep health insurance on both her and my granddaughter. For now.

But health insurance in America is contingent upon a job and the whim of an employer or the well-being of the economy.

This was a bad idea sixty years ago and it is still a bad idea today.

What irks me most is that a public option for education is what got most of these rascals where they are today. Without a public education most of America would have never gotten past the third grade. Our forefathers bit the bullet for us so we could be educated. But unlike our forefathers, we seem to have no desire to make a better world for those who come after.

im sure old fat guy, that your idea of “dowsizing” dosent effect the numerous services and benefits YOU recive from the government, including Social security and medicare. cant think of any others? then like most “libertarians” you havent really thought about it.

No single payer so health care CEO’s can keep their multimillion dollar salaries while we put on bake sales to help pay for cures.

I reside in a small town and every week there is some kind of raffle or spaghetti dinner to scrounge together the funds to meet the medical expenses of a child with leukemia or a teenager with a brain tumor. We’re trying to pay for brain surgery with bake sales!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20…..sm/ymarino

Firefighters save lives and are non profit and paid for by the govt.
Police officers saves lives and are non profit and are paid by the govt.
Military saves lives and are non profit and are paid by the govt.

So why the hell isn’t health care non profit and paid for by the govt?

Good news, everybody! No, wait.

It takes a 2/3 (66.7%) “supermajority” in congress to overturn a presidential veto. It takes a 3/4 (75%) supermajority of states to ratify a new amendment to the Constitution. But when 76% of the people say they are in favor of a public option, the politicians shit on us.

So it’s good to know that the 24% of citizens who DON’T want a public option are going to get their wish, along with the corporate fucks in the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Representative democracy is alive and well dead as a fucking doornail in America.

Obama’s gutted health care “reform” will be his pyrrhic one-term legacy. I hope it was worth it.

Some people appear to be fixated on the notion that Obama never promised anything during his campaign and all his missteps and failures are simply a product of overeager former supporters projecting their hopes and dreams on him. Ummm, NO.

Obama on the campaign trail:

http://usliberals.about.com/od…..thCare.htm

watch it:

http://www.veoh.com/browse/vid…..335zQQBtAd

Not to abuse the “seriously” thing, but seriously, is Google really that hard?

R.I.P. Democratic Party. It wasn’t murder, it was suicide. And Obama, you helped.

Yes Sunshine………… Yes!! They are protecting the modern day slave owners, corporate aristocrats who profit from your life’s misfortunes. Like being the unfortunate African captured, in Africa by slave traders and brought to America, to be a slaves, aka corporate servitude!!!!!!!!!

Non profit means tax exempt! Does not mean they do not profit?? Review the IRS 990 form of corporations which are insurers, that for tax law purposes are considered “Public Charities??” The subsidy received by these corporations by virtue of corporate tax exempt status, is unknown to the American People!!!!!!

Misspoke???? This is the problem. We really do not know what Obama’s bottom line is. Obama’s not out front and center like Howard Dean, who claims every time Dean is interviewed, that a public option is the only means of having real reform.

When Dean is interviewed, almost every time, within the first two sentences he makes it clear that there will be no reform without a public option.

Contrast that with Obama’s language who says that a public option is just a “sliver” of the reform required. And this language is buried in an interview or speech after lots of discussion about private insurance.

A “sliver” of the reform necessary? Horsesh…!

75% of the American people, who think a public option is necessary would not call it a “sliver” of the reform necessary.

How can Obama expect the left to support him when he uses this kind of half-hearted ambiguous language? It just smacks of triangulation. And there is no way to know whether he will stand up for us or sell us out.

Since he seems to have sold us out on so many things in his march to a 15-0 win, why should we think he wouldn’t do it again?

One more thing. It’s beginning to look like, that for Obama, everything is negotiable, even his mother.

A very common phrase among lawyers (and I am one) I might add.

In the 1930’s Germany, the right-wing brownshirts, who had the corporate support of I G Farben, and numerous other German corporations, took over and brought Hitler to power because the democratic leaders just would not stand up. The Nazis represented about 30 to 35% of the German people, but they won out over the democratic government, because of the spinelessness of the German democratic leaders.

Same old sh…. Different day.