In parts one and two of this series on the origins of the SERE torture program, we examined how unlikely it was that James Mitchell and Bruce Jessen, relying on entrepreneurial guile and chutzpah alone, convinced a passive Pentagon and CIA, eager to find some way to get terror intelligence, to buy into their "learned helplessness" interrogation paradigm. It seems plausible that others were in on the scheme, and in part two, we examined the idea that Mitchell and Jessen’s superior, Col. Roger Aldrich, had originated the idea of selling SERE interrogation services to the government.
We also know, as established earlier, that Mitchell’s first business partner came from Special Operations. Later, Mitchell, Jessen and Associates (MJA) shared the same telephone number as Randall Spivey’s RS Consulting business. Spivey was former chief of operations for JPRA’s Policy and Oversight Division, until leaving in 2002 to found his own series of contracting companies. Ultimately, he became a governing member of MJA.
As for Roger Aldrich, the "legendary military survival trainer" (as the New York Times described him) who had been Mitchell and Jessen’s Air Force superior, he continued to work at the Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (JPRA) after 9/11, waiting out his military retirement. Subsequently, he joined JPRA contractor Tate Inc. as Director of Training, a job he must have held concurrent with his Mitchell-Jessen post. (MJA and Tate share the same Alexandria, Virginia address.)
David Ayers, head of Tate, Inc., was the other MJA shareholder, along with Joseph Matarazzo, yet another former president of the American Psychological Association who crossed Mitchell and Jessen’s path. Matarazzo, who Jane Mayer recently reported worked for the CIA, had been hired by Mitchell and Jessen years earlier, in 1996, along with other prominent U.S. psychologists — Charles Speilberger, Richard Lazarus, and Albert Bandura – for an internal review of SERE training procedures, according to a SERE internal document.
According to my source, Mr. Aldrich had contacts with the CIA through Special Forces work. Special Forces has a unique relationship with SERE and JPRA, as all Special Forces operators must receive SERE training and certification, due to the danger of their work. It is my hypothesis that the CIA passed the Al Qaeda document on to Aldrich, and set up the cover story of a "review" of the terrorist manual as the opportunity to launch the torture plan. (See discussion as well in part one of this series.)
The review itself was only a premise, which is clear to anyone who has ever bothered to look at the manual, and its simplistic, if not homely, rendition of how to resist what the manual assumes is inevitable torture. Since the Al Qaeda manual assumes that a number of torture techniques will be used upon the prisoner, including stripping, hanging by feet and hands, beatings, cold water, forced standing and positions, attack by dogs, solitary confinement, use of drugs, being placed in a septic tank, and more, one wonders, given the accounts of torture by U.S. interrogators, just how surprised Al Qaeda members were by the so-called "enhanced" techniques doled out by the SERE/CIA specialists.
Nor should we consider this a conspiracy between only Aldrich, Mitchell and Jessen. As noted above, it seems most probable that the CIA set the mission in motion, utilizing special operations and JPRA contacts. In this scenario, Mitchell and Jessen can best be understood as agents in the operation, and not brain trusters. Moreover, the CIA had been running research studies on the effects of SERE techniques on subjects for some years, preceding 9/11. (A future article will give the particulars, but see this article for some examples.)
It seems possible, given what we know thus far, that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office originated the torture program (possibly at the behest of President Bush), utilizing personnel from the Joint Special Forces Command (JSOC) and the CIA. According to New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh, JSOC is said to not be answerable to any particular command structure (emphasis added):
It is a special wing of our special operations community that is set up independently. They do not report to anybody, except in the Bush-Cheney days, they reported directly to the Cheney office. They did not report to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff or to Mr. [Robert] Gates, the secretary of defense. They reported directly to him.
The chain of command for the torture program appears to have run from Bush-Cheney, to leaders of JSOC and their CIA supporters, to the "legendary" Roger Aldrich, and on down to his trusted men, Mitchell, Jessen, Baumgarten and others at Aldrich’s agency, JPRA. From thence, the program spread throughout the CIA, the Defense Department (including the Defense Intelligence Agency), especially via Joint Forces Command, and to the contracting companies that were read into the program, staffed often by compatriots from Special Operations or SERE, or ex-CIA or other intelligence men.
The main problem with analyses of the Mitchell-Jessen program thus far is the failure to plausibly link the top layers of the administration, which we know were involved in approving torture, to such lowly players as Mitchell and Jessen. The actions and connections of Roger Aldrich, and the ersatz chain of command that is described just above has the virtue of describing the necessary connections, although the identities of some of the actors are still unknown.
Whatever actually happened, whether Scott Shane, who wrote the recent New York Times article on Mitchell and Jessen, is right, or my scenario, or some other, we must have investigations with real teeth to get to the truth, followed by prosecutions of those who were responsible for crimes of war, of crimes against humanity.
Related posts:
- NYT Misses Full Story on Mitchell-Jessen
- Expanding the Investigation into SERE Torture
- “Targets of Opportunity”: Corruption, Contractors, and the Origins of the SERE Torture Program
- Torture Architects Mitchell & Jessen in Road to Maui
- FDL Exclusive: SERE Psychologists Still Used in Special Ops Interrogations and Detention
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When I read my own story, it seems jam-packed and maybe difficult to follow. If you, the reader, find it this way, I highly suggest reading the first two parts first, as they set the table for this conclusion.
Another essential link between JSOC and the CIA is Stanley McChrystal:
McChrystal, of course, has his own ties to torture with his history at Camp NAMA and hiding it from the ICRC.
Yes. McChrystal was crucial in bringing the SERE torture to Iraq. Now he is the supreme commmander for Obama in Afghanistan, where latest reports have soldiers going house to house hunting down the “terrorists” (and leaving unknown amounts of terror, themselves, in their wake), as reported by the Fox embedded reporter for Operation Eastern Resolve (yeah, Fox, so tase me).
What does this say as a country that Obama gets off with almost no peep of protest in this country, as he appoints a torturer to a chief post in his war? I don’t know if I’ve hardly seen any notice of this outside FDL (thanks, Siun!).
So exactly how did this direction feed in Cambone’s chain of command down to Abu Graib? Or was there a parallel structure all the way down?
It seems that these programs were percolating in the CIA or some spook agency, obviously born from situations of earlier conflicts where prisoners were subject to interrogations and all sorts of abuse with the ostensible purpose of “breaking” them and then getting something of use out of the process. It’s hard to believe that actual tactical information could be gotten if the “operation” was large. If you catch the big guys they are most likely not detail guys and have others who do that. Perhaps you might get their names.
If you catch the little guys they are foot soldiers and probably have such a narrow assignment that they will likely have little information except perhaps their handler or some bits about the operation they were engaged in or about to engage in.
Nasty guys also have layers and blinds so that no one has enough info to dump it all and foil the whole operation.
The point being that you probably won’t get much from any individual because they don’t have it to give. And that’s the chains of commands work.
When the “conspiracy” theories for the various assassinations and the 911 incident came forth they always / often contain participants who had no idea of the bigger picture and were called patsies because they thought they were doing something for someone else and were conveniently left behind to take ALL the blame and heat from the “real” conspirators. Whether this is what happened or not, the logis is there and it certainly COULD and WOULD be the way to do these horrible deeds – get someone else to take the fall. Once that happens and the media is satisfied and everything else becomes tin foil conspiracy nonsense and no one seems interested in laying out all the facts and connecting all the dots.
My sense is that those in power needed to have this really nasty enemy or the perception in the public that one exists in order to prosecute such destructive wars. They needed to justify it to themselves and to the public so they not only make up lies, but they find people and torture them to the point that they will say anything. QED.
The problem of course is that the testimony can’t see the light of day, and it only serves to strengthen the resolve of the top side of the national security state who need to believe it anyway.
The fact that a psychologist would assist in such a process is beyond belief. These guys did it for the money and perhaps they are sadists as well. There are sadists out there and obviously they are the ones doing the torture. So these need to be recruited and identified as well.
I believe General Miller brought it from Guantanamo. However, there may have been another point of entry via CIA or SF operatives. I haven’t researched that aspect enough to be more specific.
Remember when Miller took the Fifth on abuse at Abu Ghraib? Hardly anyone would remember today, because the press didn’t find the crimes of a general as compelling as say… Sarah Palin’s latest screed, or the changing of the leaves in New England in the fall.
The media blitz has the american people believing that the afghans are monsters, all treat women like chattel, spend their lives planning the destruction of america and were responsible for 911. There were no afghans supposedly involved in that.
Then the reason given is that they harbor the real terrorists. But they have fled to Pakistan supposedly.
But we are fighting someone in afghanistan because we need to win a war for a change.
Obama is completely wrong here.
Oh, yes, and one mustn’t forget that General William Boykin, Commander of Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, became Cambone’s military assistant in the Office of Special Plans.
A very important connection there. I have to thank Lila Rajiva for writing about this at Counterpunch back in 06.
The top guys who ran these sites, gitmo, abu graibm bagram and other black sites are looking for scape goats to beat up on. They are convinced that we have enemies, really nasty ones and if we don’t then they will take care of anyone who thinks they could mess with the USA. These are very disturbed and sadistic people and need psychiatric care – not commissions in the DOD.
Good points!
We must forget the whole issue about effectiveness of torture. IT WAS NEVER ABOUT THAT! The torture was meant to terrorize. That’s why it didn’t matter who you picked up. At the high operational level, this was about counterinsurgent-style war, such as the U.S. practiced in Southeast Asia. It is the takeover of a region. The new torture program is the analogue of the Phoenix program in Vietnam (as Mayer noted awhile back, with, perhaps not realizing what she was being told).
This was all being planned before 9/11. Whether 9/11 was a catalyst to put this all in operation, or something else, we may never know, and it may not matter.
The ongoing military campaign in Afghanistan and ongoing occupation of Iraq demonstrates all you need to know about U.S. intentions. The Taliban are not out to take down the U.S. and never were. A convenient enemy for the U.S., who has decades of experience (as do their British partners) in turning one ethnic group or tribe against another.
Divide and conquer. Terrorize the population. Strategic hamlets and forced relocations of people. At home, it’s bread and circuses. The left begs for crumbs from the table, and can’t even get the rulers to cough up to take care of sick people, like every other civilized country.
What a society, and mostly blinded by trivial preoccupations on one side, and a deadly struggle for survival on the other.
Horrifying to think the JSOC “normally” reports to no one.
And horrifying to think this is the reality of the country we live in.
This is only one the the many very troubling things about the America we inhabit.
One would like to think it’s the usual few rotten apples who are messing things up. I don’t see it that way. I see it as a real deep and broad illness in the American psyche which has a perverted understanding of what freedom is and what rights are.
Did Miller also bring it to Guantanamo? And who in the upper reaches of Rumsfeld’s DoD worked most closely with Miller on this? Or do you suspect a Cheney backchannel that bypassed Rumsfeld?
It always looked to me like a clear matter of running down the chain-of-command from the CoC. But then, I’m just looking at it from the newstories and official reports that came out in 2004-2005.
This is only one the the many very troubling things about the America we inhabit.
One would like to think it’s the usual few rotten apples who are messing things up. I don’t see it that way. I see it as a real deep and broad illness in the American psyche which has a perverted understanding of what freedom is and what rights are.
The few?
You are so right; it is a deep and broad illness in the American psyche.
And it starts with the type of denial that is based in decreasing value,
increased overhead, kids, kids, our kids, working our asses off, beautiful babies going to daycare because they have to, and beautiful babies who can’t even go to daycare because there isn’t any way to make that freakin’ dream come true.
We are lost. And our most valuable asset, our gorgeous children of every hue, they are lost in programs designed to blunt their potential, their value to our society.
We have been attacked time and time again.
The torture was meant to terrorize.
———————————-
You’re sure about that?
Only to terrorize?
You see no other value in torture to the CIA or whoever needs to cover up?
Please, wake up.
300 million people and 16 responses. Obviously Americans could give a flying fuck. A country that has lost it’s soul and it’s conscious will surely go the way of Rome. The rest of world is waiting with baited breath.
I presume you are referring to the production of false confessions to build a case for the Iraq War (and not getting actionable intel). You are correct, and in my passion to mention the terrorizing aspect, I forgot to mention the other. Forgive me, but this aspect of the torture — to help subdue a population through naked terror — has gotten a lot less play than the false intel for war has gotten (which, by popular measure, isn’t that much either).
However, the bulk of prisoners gathered at Abu Ghraib, Bagram, etc., were nobodies to be terrorized. The false confessions were confined to a subset, many of them transferred to Guantanamo. The subset included politicals, jihadists, a few Al Qaeda, and a bunch of more innocents.
Have I woken up? ;-)
This indeed is carried down from the Phoenix program in Vietnam which was even more brutal. Those in custody were tortured, but rarely did they come out alive. It’s estimated that 40,000 perished as a result of that assassination program of the CIA.
A reprieve from following the way of Rome would be for the President to write an exective order to abolish the CIA. Kennedy intended to do it. Like Hamlet he delayed, deciding to do it after the ‘64 election. The CIA was aware of if and struck first.
For the interested readers who drop by…
I’ve posted at my own blog a reprint of Armen Victorian’s essay — United States, Canada, Britain: Partners in Mind Control Operations (1996).
This is a famous article. It was cited by Darius Rejali in his well-regarded history, Torture and Democracy. It’s an excellent history of the subject, initially published at MindNet Journal, Vol. 1, No. 81. I’ve quietly corrected a few typos and added minimal formatting changes for readability.
I know this is all pretty dark stuff. That’s why, I think, Bluetoe, it gets a low readership. Also, I’ll take some heat, and admit that my presentation could use some improvement.
I think those looking for more info, linking the current controversy to the past history of the subject, could do worse than this excellent essay, where a lot of history is presented in a relatively short space (though as an Internet posting, it is longish).
I agree. The CIA should be abolished. At the very least, it’s ability to conduct covert operations should end. Much that is bad about the past fifty to sixty years stems from CIA’s actions in this area. (They added special ops into the picture in the 60s.) A list of those operations would be quite long:
Overthrowing the President of Iran
Overthrowing the President of Guatemala
Overthrowing the President of Chile
Building the jihad movement against the Soviets, financing Bin Laden
The assassination of the Congo’s first prime minister, Patrice Lumumba
Ousting the President of Ecuador (Velasco, 1963)
Helping the Baath (and Saddam Hussein) overthrow Gen. Kassem in Iraq, in a coup that also killed 1000s of communists
CIA interference in the Philippines
CIA support to the failed coup against De Gaulle
CIA cooperation with the apartheid government of South Africa to suppress the ANC
CIA support of the coup of the Greek generals in 1967
One could go on and on. (Sorry if I left the one that pissed you off the most off this short list.)
This is not all radical bs. Readers can check out John Prados’s excellent recent history — Safe for Democracy: The Secret Wars of the CIA.
None of these actions were conducted to “safeguard” our democracy. They were all conducted to further the financial interests of the CIA’s powerful backers (Texas oilmen, weapons manufacturers, bankers, etc.) The CIA takes the heat, but they are merely tools of the their wealthy clients whose identities the CIA conceals at all costs.
Thanks for the Prados link.
You forgot to add that all these actions took place on U.S. taxpayers’ nickel.
Jeff
A couple of questions. First, do we actually KNOW that it was the Manchester manual? I ask only bc I’ve at time wondered whether the subsequent reporting has said it was the Manchester manual bc that is public and unclassified and–as you point out–not all that exciting.I agree it feels like a cover story, but I’m not convinced it’s a cover story in the direction you’re arguing it is (though I’m not sure how it is a cover story).
Also, while I agree there are tons more people in the loop here, I’m not sure I understand why we need a different chain of command from what we know. One of the key elements, it seems to me, is the relationship of Addington and Rizzo (from CIA days), and Addington and Haynes, which gives you the prior involvement and knowledge, and the two acolytes in the place to orchestrate it. Yes the question is how do you get from Haynes (who was technically probably working out of chain of commend, since he was working on what was primarily a CIA issue at that point, but your point about JSOC of course mitigates that issue) to Mitchell and Jessen. And I absolutely agree that this is not (just) about MJA figuring out how to get rich off of torture.
There was likely a third and fourth reason for the torture. Like the British program of the early 1970s that used isolation and sensory and sleep deprivation as an experiment on the Northern Irish prisoners at Long Kesh, some of the U.S. torture has or remains experimental in nature. There are a number of references to this in the SASC report and elsewhere. As at Long Kesh, and what the Brits unleashed, the raison d’etre is supposedly fighting “terrorism”. (The fourth reason was for whatever portion of the military that actually thought it was a way to get intel.)
And the “terrorism”, that’s what we call violence when it’s used by the other side. I, for one, can’t see much difference between sending suicide bombers to kill innocents, or sending flying drone aircraft or cruise missiles, killing innocents. Each type of terror attack aims supposedly to have a military aim. Even terrorizing of civilian targets is nothing unique to Al Qaeda. Anyone remember what “shock and awe” (a Nazi-like term if there ever was one) was all about? Or much earlier, the bombing of North Vietnam, the napalming of North Korea, or the firebombing of Toyko? (I won’t even elaborate upon the tens of thousands of civilians incinerated at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.) Killing of innocents by terrorists, my ass.
Not that I condone any killing of civilians by anyone. I just hate the hypocrisy put out by the U.S. side.
Obviously, we cannot know for certain that it was the Manchester document. But I have not seen any other candidate. I base my certainty on the representation in Mike Dunleavy’s testimony, released by ACLU here, see pg. 11. From his reference, I think it’s clear that Manchester is the Al Qaeda document that is referred to over and over again.
As for a cover, what else could it be a cover for? We need to see Jessen’s document. But the manner of a “review” to cover for an operational CONOP makes sense, especially as you see what activities follow its release.
As for the rest, I don’t think we’re in disagreement re chain of command. The orders come from Cheney’s office to (most likely) Addington (perhaps one or two others), and thence to CIA (of which only one is Rizzo; Tenet should have gotten the orders first) and Special Ops, running under Cheney; and SecDef. Haynes was detailed (with pretty good documentation) to go to JPRA, that could have come from Addington/Cheney, or via Rumsfeld, we just don’t know for sure. I’m talking here about how it went operational, not about the OLC matters, which was always running behind events, as you’ve pointed out.
I didn’t mention Addington going to CIA, for instance, to give the order, because I don’t have that info. But I do have a source telling me who went to Mitchell-Jessen. We have Mitchell at Ft. Bragg (Special Ops), and we have a “legendary” leader who can bridge the two worlds (higher-ups and operational).
The importance of adding Aldrich (and to certain extent Spivey) is to place the necessary link between the upper layers and the operational layers, that’s all. Of course, it’s important to know that Aldrich reportedly was part of the reverse-engineering. My source says he originated the idea, not Mitchell. This source has been reliable on much else, though we will still need some corroboration on that.
If you leave out Aldrich and that level of JPRA, then you don’t have the links to CIA/Special OPs and above. What you’re left with is the bad apple scenario that will set up Mitchell and Jessen for the fall. And that’s not how it went down, although I think it was setup that way from the beginning, so there could be deniability.
I am certain (and wrote some about this in my “Targets of Opprortunity” article) that some of the SERE techniques had already migrated to Special Ops pre-9/11. I know some other mainstream reporters think or know this, too. I think that links to Aldrich, who was big at PRA [Personnel Recovery Academy], where Col. Moulton was bragging he could get all the great interrogators. But as for the early migration, that’s why we have the hooding and special positions, etc., from the get-go when Special Ops hits the ground in Afghanistan in Oct-Nov. 2001, way before Mitchell-Jessen enter the picture. Of course, the hooding, etc. didn’t have to come from SERE. The British were using this on IRA in the 1970s. But then SERE was a repository of torture knowledge, much as Jane Mayer portrayed it in her book.
Shane was right or picked up on one thing. This was worked out in part with a lot of informal conversations and meetings, like the one at Seligman’s house. It’s possible, for instance, that the spook psychologists at a high level (like Shumate or Hubbard or Banks, or psychiatrist Morgan) had a lot more influence than we think.
I think the chain of command and execution I’m trying to establish is important, and takes us one step closer to putting the puzzle fully together. But it is not meant to be a definitive history or explanation. In my view, the operational side doesn’t get the attention it deserves. I think it’s because most of the torture critics who are writing are attorneys, and have found more meat in the OLC memos aspect of the controversy. Hang the lawyers… and let the generals gently out to pasture. (Or in McChrystal’s case, give them a promotion.)
I know quite a bit about this particular subject. Let me just say that the links you are looking for as to the origins of migrating SERE to the illegal torture regime are probably more incidental than you’d think. All SOF, Pilots and agency field personnel are high risk of capture and get SERE instruction. Many SOF/military personnel who were perplexed as to how to handle the prisoners in Afghanistan naturally defaulted to large quantity prisoner handling techniques that SERE school used. Nothing wrong with that … I have told Jane Meyer that the document links between the CIA and SOF were probably directive in nature down the chain to JPRA … after someone remembered that SERE programs are tough and intense. When asked informally, JPRA enthusiatically joined in and ignoring all SERE stands for (which is wholly honorable and necessary) -Voila! a Abuse based torture program.
MJA was clearly created to reverse engineer basic SERE into a torture program. Thats critical because Tate Corp was the principle subcontractor to JPRA for manpower management -they provided the instructors and paid the staff. Tate did not want to be directly involved but Fairchild is a small base and the JPRA offices are even smaller … so MJA was formed to legally ensure no conflicting contracts for this activitiy with Tate and JPRA’s standing contracts. Thats all… nothing sinister, just contract law. All of those guys -all of whom worked in those same craped offices saw BIG dollar signs after 9/11.
As for who issued the key orders? I think you are correct on how the paper orders came down the chain but the idea of revere engineeing SERE surely went up the chain informally at first. When the question of “What do we do with AQ members we capture?” was asked I think it was kicked around DoD and CIA until it found JPRA ready to lend a hand … it was then briefed up the chain of command by the military and it leaped over to the CIA (all of whom remember their terrifying SERE experience) and then back briefed the White House about SERE -and I am sure they LOVED the idea. So to avoid the “illegalities” it went to the OLC for scrubbing.
As for which AQ document JPRA was briefed on, I don’t think it was the Manchester document … that wasn’t found until 2003, I believe … I think it was from the copies of the Encyclopedia of Jihad that were all over South Asia. I had a copy in 1997 at my anti-terror survivial program. The interrogation resistance stuff from that book was copied directly from US and UK military manuals from WWII, Vietnam and public sources like the SAS survival handbook and Andy McNabb’s BRAVO 2-0.
I have met Scott Shane and I think he is still working out the kinks, but the entire process up to the office of the VP was WAY less formal than you all think.
One last request Jeff. Please stop using the Navy SERE school North Island logo here for these threads. SERE has nothing to do with implimenting torture or this program, it was corrupted into torture by people who used SERE information. Using my school’s logo is like using the Red Cross logo to represent the Spanish Inquisition. Its not fair not respectful of the true meaning of SERE.
Matarazzo met with Military psychologists BEFORE 9/11.
Following is a partial quote from the 4/16/02 entry at the “Torturous Timeline”, linked here:
http://www.webdsi.com/jebbie/tline.html
I think “another point of entry” [JK @6] is Rumsfeld at DoD and SF. He engineered a coup in Intelligence by wresting power from CIA and vesting it in Special Forces.
I wrote a series of three comments outlining this process [from reading Seymour Hersh’s work] at Glenn Greenwald’s Blog, beginning here:
http://letters.salon.com/opini…..bee93.html
on this thread:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
I appreciate the comments and contributions of harpie @28 and MalcolmNance @27.
I thank harpie for pointing out the very interesting Matarazzo quote and the importance of Rumsfeld in construction of the torture program. In such a small article, dedicated to adding to our understanding of SERE, JPRA, and Mitchell-Jessen, much was going to be left out. I’d note that in the article, I chose to mention links to Matarazzo going back to 1996.
Mr. Nance’s comments purport to be critical of the article, but don’t offer a view that much different than my own. However, the more “incidental” POV regarding the migration of SERE techniques belies the command structure of the military, where individuals are responsible for decisions, and Standard Operating Procedures and training for duty are important components of essential military discipline.
As someone in a position to know, I’d think Mr. Nance could speak more specifically about the actual source of the Al Qaeda manual. As in my comment above, I determined it was the Manchester document, given the way the latter was discussed in relation of how to treat AQ prisoners at Guantanamo by Gen. Dunleavy.
In either case, it doesn’t matter, as the question still stands: how did a review of resistance techniques become a program for offensive, coercive interrogation methods?
There are two narratives: the impulse came from below (and I am charging Aldrich, Mitchell and Jessen, and various CIA/Spec Ops types with that), or it came from above (Cheney ordered it, or Bush, or high CIA officials, and the machinery was set in motion).
In the dynamic confusion of crisis, and the usual mosaic of historical events, we can assume that both took place, in a synergistic fashion. However, I believe Mr. Nance downplays the existence of previous torture activities and research by the military and CIA, which predisposed or preconditioned the events that took place. I intend to emphasize this aspect of the picture in an article on SERE research by the CIA.
I note that Nance takes no umbrage with my switch of emphasis from Mitchell and Jessen to Roger Aldrich, as the person responsible for making a business out of reverse-engineering the SERE techniques.
I do think the idea that the military and CIA sat around wondering how to handle AQ prisoners when they got them to be plain silly. It asks us to assume that everything from the Kubark manual to the Army Field Manual to the Geneva Conventions did not exist, much less endless discussions on topics like this in the military journals and colleges. Come on, Mr. Nance. Others may believe the naive CIA agent/Special Ops personnel, but I don’t. What a sad happenstance that when kicking it around, JPRA suddenly showed up. That disguises the close association of the three, although it does capture the avaricious behavior of JPRA, who eagerly sought their place at the table by bargaining their wares and selling their souls (not to mention, violating their charter).
Finally, I am not in charge of graphics used with my stories, and will pass along Mr. Nance’s complaint to the people upstairs.
More thoughts, and I don’t know if people here appreciate just how important a portion of what you had to say here is. As about the only person in America to point out the role of Tate, and how the “TaterTots” interpenetrated JPRA, I like getting confirmation of that.
But let’s take one portion of what you said:
So far, you corroborate everything I have written. MJA was a torture project to begin with. The Tate personnel are all over JPRA, and vice versa. Tate “did not want to be directly involved”… in what? In the torture program! Of course, that did not keep David Ayers, head of Tate from being on the governing board of MJA, maybe precisely to watch that things didn’t implicate his enterprise too directly.
“Nothing sinister”? Just “contract law”? Standing aside to facilitate no conflicts around the construction of a torture program? Hmmm… It certainly shows they knew what was going on, and thought was put into how it would go forward without implicating too many people.
Though you are certainly right about one thing, and it validates what I and Scott Shane and others have said, that a number of people were in it for the money.
Jeff, I am not critical of your work … and I want to know how SERE was slandered and abused as well as you. I just happen to know the program and players and it is clear to me that stupid people behave stupidly when under pressure and seeking glory -that is the JPRA story for jumping in whole heartedly… they all wanted to contrubute to the Bush War on terrorism.
Silly? In US government activities, the simple reason is inevitably the right one. I trained hundreds of SOF personnel in prisoner handling pre-Iraq and even Pre-9/11 … no one remembers anything past kicking the hell out of prisoners. We had to remind them of the GC and the Five “S”s (Secure, Silence, Separate, Speed, Safeguard) I think the old CIA Kubarak programs, Psych programs or the people who developed these ancient programs had nothing to do with anything at all. Corporate memory is about 4 to 5 years unless it becomes doctrinal and taught in academy courses. Sad but true. Thats why everyone was surprised … no one gave it any priority since Vietnam.
As far as Tate not wanting to be involved with MJA, you have to understand how USG contracting goes … these are super compartmented contracts that say something like “Provide Services as indicated.” Tate knew MJA was going to get a special activity but apart from winks and hints they could not really know the intention or details of the designers … it was a classified no bid contract. Tate lost allot of staff to MJA and they were happy to keep their own multi-million dollar contracts managing USAF & JPRA SERE courses. Again its just simple contracting, not agreements or planned divisions.
I agree MJA was created to establish a torture and high value captive processing program and focusing on how that came about with JPRA blessing is an undocumented question. When it all falls out I believe you will be astounded at how simple the real excuses for how this started were … it gets sinister when it hits the politicians and they embrace it more than the CIA does. In my next book on the matter I just call it for what it is –Sadism. Thanks on the logo thing.
All interesting points. And I think the comments section will be closed down quite soon.
Your points on the organizational aspects are well-taken. I think the old Kubark lived on more than you think, i.e., in the culture of the intel world, in the memories of some of the personnel, and in the torture program that SERE was supposed to be inoculating soldiers against (which didn’t all come from Communist China, no matter what the NYT says). But I agree, it seems likely it was less institutionalized than I have supposed.
I also agree that the politicians were sadists, and the CIA knew they had to get coverage for themselves, given what they were being asked to do. But what gets me is that they would even do it, i.e., follow these inhumane and cruel orders. There is something debased in that, not to mention criminal.
I will look forward to seeing your book.
Now, I’ve already documented that Tate saw quite an increase in contracts post-9/11. I guess everyone was cashing in. But what was David Ayers doing on MJA?