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	<title>Comments on: Marriott Calls Rape Victim &#8220;Negligent,&#8221; Outs Her to Family &amp; Friends</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/</link>
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		<title>By: Aldea</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958266</link>
		<dc:creator>Aldea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958266</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;About the duty of care/knowing:  didn’t Marriot get sued by another woman (or a man or a couple, I can’t quite recall) a few years ago for a violent attack inside one of their properties?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the duty of care/knowing:  didn’t Marriot get sued by another woman (or a man or a couple, I can’t quite recall) a few years ago for a violent attack inside one of their properties?</p>
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		<title>By: James F. Trumm</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958251</link>
		<dc:creator>James F. Trumm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958251</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In response to #25 above, I have not seen the complaint, but in general, business owners owe people who are on their premises for broadly-defined business purposes owe them a duty of care to protect them from reasonably foreseeable harm. The plaintiff’s general claims in this type of litigation are that 1) the hotel knew or reasonably should have known of a danger posed to people lawfully on its premises; and 2) the hotel carelessly failed to take reasonable steps to prevent the plaintiff from coming to harm, and 3) that the hotel’s carelessness was a substantial cause of the harm sustained.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To prove the first part, plaintiffs generally try to show that there had been other, similar assaults at the premises (or similar premises) in the past and that the hotel knew or should have known about them. A hotel in a high-crime area, for example, may have a different duty of care than a hotel in a lower-crime area. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To prove the second part, plaintiffs focus on various things, including the architecture and design of the premises. Why do you think you see so many glass walls and cameras in parking garage elevators? It’s because so many plaintiffs successfully argued that hotels knew that people were getting attacked in the elevators and that it would have been reasonable for them to lessen that risk by installing cameras and glass walls but that they did not do so. Depending on circumstances, other facts may become relevant here, such as whether the hotel provided security patrols appropriate to the risk environment, whether the hotel offered people escorts to their cars, whether the hotel installed panic button alarms, etc. Hotels are not absolute guarantors of people’s safety; if a hotel takes reasonable steps to secure its premises and a rape occurs anyway, the defendant wins.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To prove the third part, the plaintiff has to prove that the rape would not have happened had the defendant properly secured the premises and that it was reasonably foreseeable that such an attack might occur. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sorry for all the legalese. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;One thing I didn’t mention in my original post (#15) is that it is quite typical in such cases for courts to grant a protective order requested by the plaintiff that forbids the defendant from introducing evidence that somehow suggests the victim “asked” to be raped. I once represented a stripper who was raped in her apartment by a man who got in because the landlord never fixed some broken locks. I knew that people’s attitudes toward strippers being what they were, I could do one of two things: ask the judge to tell the jury not to hold her occupation against her, or simply forbid all evidence of her occupation at trial. I opted for the latter.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to #25 above, I have not seen the complaint, but in general, business owners owe people who are on their premises for broadly-defined business purposes owe them a duty of care to protect them from reasonably foreseeable harm. The plaintiff’s general claims in this type of litigation are that 1) the hotel knew or reasonably should have known of a danger posed to people lawfully on its premises; and 2) the hotel carelessly failed to take reasonable steps to prevent the plaintiff from coming to harm, and 3) that the hotel’s carelessness was a substantial cause of the harm sustained.</p>
<p>To prove the first part, plaintiffs generally try to show that there had been other, similar assaults at the premises (or similar premises) in the past and that the hotel knew or should have known about them. A hotel in a high-crime area, for example, may have a different duty of care than a hotel in a lower-crime area. </p>
<p>To prove the second part, plaintiffs focus on various things, including the architecture and design of the premises. Why do you think you see so many glass walls and cameras in parking garage elevators? It’s because so many plaintiffs successfully argued that hotels knew that people were getting attacked in the elevators and that it would have been reasonable for them to lessen that risk by installing cameras and glass walls but that they did not do so. Depending on circumstances, other facts may become relevant here, such as whether the hotel provided security patrols appropriate to the risk environment, whether the hotel offered people escorts to their cars, whether the hotel installed panic button alarms, etc. Hotels are not absolute guarantors of people’s safety; if a hotel takes reasonable steps to secure its premises and a rape occurs anyway, the defendant wins.</p>
<p>To prove the third part, the plaintiff has to prove that the rape would not have happened had the defendant properly secured the premises and that it was reasonably foreseeable that such an attack might occur. </p>
<p>Sorry for all the legalese. </p>
<p>One thing I didn’t mention in my original post (#15) is that it is quite typical in such cases for courts to grant a protective order requested by the plaintiff that forbids the defendant from introducing evidence that somehow suggests the victim “asked” to be raped. I once represented a stripper who was raped in her apartment by a man who got in because the landlord never fixed some broken locks. I knew that people’s attitudes toward strippers being what they were, I could do one of two things: ask the judge to tell the jury not to hold her occupation against her, or simply forbid all evidence of her occupation at trial. I opted for the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: sangemon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958242</link>
		<dc:creator>sangemon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I got the exact same canned non-reponsive response.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Marriot is scum.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got the exact same canned non-reponsive response.</p>
<p>Marriot is scum.</p>
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		<title>By: bpollen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958224</link>
		<dc:creator>bpollen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958224</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And to suggest that starting a gun-battle when you are with your children would be a GOOD thing is totally irresponsible. Those that suggest that an armed society is a polite society are apparently oblivious to history.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And to suggest that starting a gun-battle when you are with your children would be a GOOD thing is totally irresponsible. Those that suggest that an armed society is a polite society are apparently oblivious to history.</p>
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		<title>By: bpollen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958223</link>
		<dc:creator>bpollen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 08:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958223</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Another page from the Ann Coulter playbook: The 9/11 widows are in it for the money, the rape victim is riding the gravy train, etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Possibly non-existent” deity forbid you should be a victim of a violent crime, but if you do, don’t expect any sympathy from me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another page from the Ann Coulter playbook: The 9/11 widows are in it for the money, the rape victim is riding the gravy train, etc.</p>
<p>“Possibly non-existent” deity forbid you should be a victim of a violent crime, but if you do, don’t expect any sympathy from me.</p>
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		<title>By: poetcomic1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958046</link>
		<dc:creator>poetcomic1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 04:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1958046</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, but rapists do.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, but rapists do.</p>
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		<title>By: sunshine</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1957997</link>
		<dc:creator>sunshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1957997</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You said:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Hotels don’t rape women. Men do.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
I said:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;I will not ever visit a hotel that uses the excuse it’s the woman’s fault she was raped.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt; Enough said.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Hotels don’t rape women. Men do.</p></blockquote>
<p>.<br />
I said:</p>
<blockquote><p>I will not ever visit a hotel that uses the excuse it’s the woman’s fault she was raped.</p></blockquote>
<p> Enough said.</p>
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		<title>By: solerso</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1957985</link>
		<dc:creator>solerso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1957985</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;or even assault rifles. frankly, women should be fully armed at all times. any women who isnt packing a .44 magnum deserves whatever she gets, right?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or even assault rifles. frankly, women should be fully armed at all times. any women who isnt packing a .44 magnum deserves whatever she gets, right?</p>
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		<title>By: solerso</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1957980</link>
		<dc:creator>solerso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1957980</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;what do “having porn channels” available in rooms have to do with their treatment of this rape victim?? are they denying she was raped? is their a suspect and a prosecution? and just HOW could this woman, ( and her children) have “taken better precautions” against forcible rape, in the fucking  parking garage, of the marriot hotel she was staying in?? by not staying in a marriot hotel. Attention women and famillies! stay at the marriot at your peril! again, marriot hotels are dumps full of rapists, and the situation is so bad, that the marriot staff cannot answer for the safety of their guests! stay away from marriot&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what do “having porn channels” available in rooms have to do with their treatment of this rape victim?? are they denying she was raped? is their a suspect and a prosecution? and just HOW could this woman, ( and her children) have “taken better precautions” against forcible rape, in the fucking  parking garage, of the marriot hotel she was staying in?? by not staying in a marriot hotel. Attention women and famillies! stay at the marriot at your peril! again, marriot hotels are dumps full of rapists, and the situation is so bad, that the marriot staff cannot answer for the safety of their guests! stay away from marriot</p>
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		<title>By: poetcomic1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1957975</link>
		<dc:creator>poetcomic1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/16/marriott-calls-rape-victim-negligent-outs-her-to-family-friends/#comment-1957975</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hotels don’t rape women. Men do.  I think women should (if they have no policerecord) ALL carry concealed pistols. It would make rapists think twice and even up the score. So-called feminists’empower’ themselves with lawyers - they should empower themwelves with .38’s.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hotels don’t rape women. Men do.  I think women should (if they have no policerecord) ALL carry concealed pistols. It would make rapists think twice and even up the score. So-called feminists’empower’ themselves with lawyers &#8211; they should empower themwelves with .38’s.</p>
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