Where to begin? Maybe here:
"Until last week this was basically a nonpartisan issue," said John Rother, executive vice president for policy at AARP, the seniors lobbying group. "People across the political spectrum recognize that far too often people’s wishes aren’t respected at the end of life and there is a lot of unnecessary suffering."
What a difference a week makes. Or should that be "weak"? From the Des Moines Register:
Sen. Charles Grassley made headlines this week when he criticized parts of a U.S. House bill that would pay for counseling for older Americans’ final years, but in 2003, he supported legislation that included Medicare reimbursement for some end-of-life services.
Aides to the Iowa Republican noted several differences between the 2003 Medicare prescription drug bill’s provisions for end-of-life counseling and those in the health care bill now before the House.
The 2003 Medicare bill provided reimbursement for services only to patients diagnosed as terminally ill.
Under H.R. 3200, a health care bill now pending in the House, all seniors would be eligible for occasional Medicare-reimbursed counseling services. The voluntary services could be provided by any physician.
Grassley played to the GOP’s nuttiest fringe, making their fevered nightmarish fears of government making end of life decisions for everyone into the official position of the GOP. Grassley’s not alone in this play, but from his perch on the Senate Finance Committee, he’s got more leverage to derail things. Thus, he was able to pull the provision out of that committee’s discussion, because it might be misinterpreted to mean "pulling the plug on grandma".
Gosh, wherever would someone get that idea, Senator?
But look at what he’s doing here . . .
Don’t you just love Grassley’s idea of what to do if something is subject to possible misinterpretation? Some might take to the cameras to correct the bad information. Some might reach out to non-partisan experts in the field, to get them out front on this. But not Chuck Grassley. His approach is apparently, "If someone doesn’t understand, let’s let their misunderstanding stand, and shut down any effort to do anything."
(Wouldn’t it have been nice if he’d had the same approach to the FISA amendments or the Authorization to use Military Force in Iraq? But I digress . . .)
The Iowa state government’s Department of Elder Affairs isn’t afraid of this, Senator. They’ve got a great brochure on advance medical directives [pdf] — and no one has said that they are trying to pull the plug on grandma.
Or at least not yet. Once Grassley gets word of this, I’m sure he’ll ride to the defense of Iowa’s grandmas, from Keokuk to Sioux Falls.
Meanwhile, people who work with the dying, from pastors to nurses to doctors to social workers like Thers’ late mother, will continue to do the compassionate work that is so desperately needed. Too bad folks like Grassley are making life that much harder for all of us.
(photo from Grassley’s Senate website)




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This Lying Tool has no Shame!
If lying to scare old folks does not offend your morals then just what will?
Why not talk about Sarah’s death panel Senator?
http://progressivealaska.blogs…..efore.html
ET is all over this lets see the Press ask the Senator what he thinks of Sarah’s Death panel I hope he is against it!
Senator Grassley is my age, 75, and I think he sees himself as possibly being too old to be important. When you get that age in office, you have to know that there are people who want you OUT to make way for younger people who think and act younger. He must be trying to get attention to make sure he gets re-elected until he drops sitting at his committee table.
So Senator would you force Terri Schiavo’s husband to keep his brain dead wife alive against her husbands wishes? Would you force every family in this situation to keep their brain dead loved ones alive no matter what their family wishes?
You opened the door Senator answer the question!
Someone should pull the plug on him and remove him from office.
I think Republican opposition to health reform ,will end up being the final nail in the coffin.
Good luck to them in 2010
Comeback, my ass!!
I wonder if the Senator has a living will himself? Does he wish to be kept alive if he’s brain dead?
At 75 shouldn’t he be facing the death panel ?
Maybe his opposition is a matter of self preservation .
If his thought process and his manner of speaking are any indication, he’s already half way there. :)
I have been alarmed by some lefties who considered Grassley as “reasonable.” Remember this?
Can there ever be any doubt about someone who takes $22 Billion out of the taxpayers pocket and puts it into the pocket of health insurance executives pockets? Everyone should know who Grassley works for.
if he’s brain dead?
…. If ??????
Thats it Senator give in to ignorance be weak. Forget about educating voters forget about being a leader its all about pretending to be dumb to be popular!
LOL!
Grassley voted for the “Death Panel” in 2003.
On topic but completely off the debate:
The big issue here seems to be that a lot of people don’t have advance directives (i.e., instructions about your wishes should you become incapacitated) or power of attorneys (i.e., who will make decisions for you if you’re incapacitated). Here’s a suggestion: We’ve already linked getting a driver’s license with voter registration and organ donor registration. Why not throw in power of attorney and advance directives? They could even print the power of attorney information on the back of your driver’s license. And you’ll have plenty of time to read all of the forms while you’re waiting in line.
Well is he brain dead or just playing dumb to be popular? He did vote in favor of this not too long ago?
I grant you he may have experienced brain death sometime between now and after that vote.
I want the press to ask him:) Lets see if they got the guts.
Ah but now its an unpopular idea so he is disowning it in a desperate attempt to be like Sarah.
Crazy Lady is the GOP leader after all.
I like it. But some people will want a doctor’s advice before they sign.
If he’s brain dead someone should pull the plug on him.
Another question for the press to ask the Senator, are you going to stop the Iowa state government’s Department of Elder Affairs from giving out advance medical directives?
Grassley has to placate his base – the stupid
When I listen to these lame explanations and concerns from the GOP, I think either these guys are mentally disabled or ethically empty. If they have any ethics at all, then the only explanation is that they are too mentally impaired to serve. No one with even an average IQ could interpret facts as poorly as these guys. It’s time the media called them on it to their face. Senator, are you really that dumb? Can you not think logically?
Can he be officially renamed Dick Grassley?
-G
Friday Elmore and I met with the social worker to discuss “quality of life issues” and end of life care. We are working on a list of what we need to do and who it needs to be filed with. I’m a granny, a young one but still a granny.
Elmore will be starting Monday Night Football and there are a lot of things to make sure that I am safe. Getting a “lifeline” in case of falls and I am alone. List of durable medical equipment needed and then on to a Will and Trusts.
This whole thing makes me sick…. years ago I helped with the Oregon Death with Dignity law. As a nurse, I’ve see first hand what a mess it is when someone does not have advance directives.
How about Dick Assley
I’m wondering if he’s afraid of it happening to him – that he’d be kept alive on machines, and he’s so scared that he can’t see past it.
My parents both had advance directives and medical powers of attorney.
It’s better for the families.
“ethically empty.”
Ding!
And if he is just trying to be popular we should go all “Mean Girls” on him! There are lots of ways a majority party can mess with him we could move his offices to the basement, cut his senate staff and funding.
Pronounce dead on arrival every pet project he wants heck its not like we can ever expect to get his vote so lets show him what noncooperation looks like.
No. Also.
Oh, katy! {{{{katymine}}}}}
You are so wise and calm in the face of all this. I know it’s a difficult thing to do, and fllies int the face of our American wish to believe we will live forever if we just don’t think about the alternative.
It must be hard to look to Elmore’s leaving so soon. Is there any possibility of his getting leave? I suppose not in that line of work.
You know all our hearts are with you in your fight. Stay strong!
I had a conversation the other day with a staunchly GOP medical professional. He’s against the health care reform efforts of Obama, but is beyond pissed off at Grassley, Palin, Boehner, and others for this “death panel” nonsense.
If Grassley keeps this up, this guy may move from being blue in the face to being blue at the ballot box.
If Grassley keeps this up, this guy may move from being blue in the face to being blue at the ballot box.
Good line. First smile I’ve felt reading fdl this morning.
It’s proof to me that they’re not interested in talking about health care — they’re talking about politics. “Hmmm . . . how can we twist any of this into an anti-big government talking point?”
They’re not trying to solve anything; they’re posturing for the next election.
Grassley et al = low life motherfuckers
The thing that got me was that lady asking Sen. Spector….reading of some paper…… “if you are a 74 yr old man and you have cancer, can’t work & be productive then they decide life or death”….
Now look at that….. Spector is 80, he has been treated for Hodgkins Disease …..YA know CANCER …. now how many 74 yr olds who are working? I am hoping they are nicely retired and building Habitat homes…… Spector IS productive and way past that 74 yrs AND has CANCER…… every time I hear that then I start banging my head….. sure is hard on the brain tumors.
‘Death Panels’ is to be sure a over the top characterization. But the Dems are to blame for putting it in the bill. Totally unnecessary provision that raises all sorts of red flags.
Drop it from the bill and move on.
http://theplumline.whorunsgov……-waterloo/
Can you say “we can break him”??? Jim deMint, anyone?
The brutal truth about America’s healthcare
This is what the Republican’s want for Health Care for all us Americans while they have the very best in care. Selfish greedy pricks!
Another question for the press Hi Senator are you really against living wills or advance medical directives which you voted for in 2003? Or is your opposition now just a cynical attempt to stop Obama’s healthcare plan by creating a phony wedge issue?
Because the GOP has no ideas of their own and lying is the only way the GOP thinks they can win this one?
hey, nahant, we’re on the same wavelength. I linked to something about that LA Ram clinic in the thread below. Took awhile because I tried to link to 3 or 4 stories about it, forgetting that you can’t do that. *g*
I guess “half” of those folks just deliberately chose not to be insured./s
(gee I’m using the snark tag a lot today.)
Oh Katy we love your wit!! ROFLMAO
Well, yeah, TCU – that used to be the job of the, oh, let me see here..oh, yeah, I remember those olden days – the news reporter!
But there aren’t any of those left, of course.
I’m going to get all my ducks in a row and then tell the kids, all taken care of…… then they find some magic drug that just kills off my tumors…. (hey we can hope)
Why are the Dems “to blame”? Seems to me it’s a good idea – counseling about the end of life issues that would be paid for under the health plan and TOTALLY VOLUNTARY! No one is talking about dragging granny in to talk about dying.
Well I am still on my first Cuppa and waking up! But this is truly what the Right wants so they can continue to reap in the Buck$$ for themselves and their greedy Corporate cronies!! Fuck the rest of us!
Raise Red flags for who? Some people want to live no matter what, some do not want to be stuck living connected to tubes I want my choice to be known but yes talking to a Doctor first about this is a good idea no matter what my choice is.
The GOP to satisfy the prolifers want to make being kept alive on tubes the default choice for everyone.
Killing Living Wills is just a first step.
Terri Schiavo taught us that!
Wrong.
Everyone — Dems and the GOP alike — knows that if people have advance directives, living wills, and verbal conversations with their medical professionals BEFORE they end up in the ICU or are diagnosed with a potentially terminal condition, lots of good things happen.
The patient is more at ease with their condition, in that they are able to exercise some control over how they are to be treated medically.
The family members are more at ease, knowing that the care the patient is receiving is what that person wanted.
Medical providers are more at ease, having helped the patient and family make these decisions without the overriding emotional impact of an accident or a recent devastating diagnosis.
If there are no advance directives, generally the medical team does EVERYTHING POSSIBLE to prolong life. If the patient and family agree that there is a limit somewhere before trying “everything possible,” then that money will be saved and everyone involved has more peace of mind.
What’s not to like?
Dems and GOP folks alike voted to require hospitals to raise the issue of advance directives and to help for similar kinds of things in the past — that’s the big blockquote above from the Des Moines Register, as well as the link under “Grassley’s not alone in this.”
Why give in to GOP political talking points at the expense of something that will enhance the health care system in this country?
I know:(
We need to reframe and quit talking about and reinforcing Republican frames like “death panel,” which is a distraction from the truth.
Here’s a 4 minute video where George Lakoff offers his tips:
http://www.brianfalldin.com/20…..alth-care/
Lakoff’s complete one hour presentation:
http://fora.tv/2009/08/03/Poli…..ullprogram
- Tom
Can you say Republican Sen. Isakson? ‘Cause that’s who “put it in the bill.
And of course, “it” isn’t in the bill. What is a provision to pay
your own private doctor for the time he spends talking with you about the issues, if you want to talk to the doctor about it.
Nobody else involved, no bureaucrat, insurance or government. You and your doctor.
And why was it considered needed? Why did Sen. Grassley vote for it years ago?
Because doctors get reimbursed by insurance companies for procedures, not advice and talking, so many private doctors don’t want to take the time, leaving their patients with no one to talk to about whether they want to be kept alive on tubes at the age of, say, 91.
And btw, my mother (age 90) has just asked me to come home to discuss just these issues. She already has an advance directive and a living will, and nearly every time we talk, she begs me not to let her be put on such a regime if she cannot recover after surgery (coming up, if she decides she wants it.)
Hoping with you Katy!! I got my miracle and surely you deserve yours! And for the end of life stuff … every time I went to Stanford as either backup or primary for the Transplant I had to sign papers dealing with the possibility that I might not be able to tell them my end of life wishes!! This is a very important subject that must be dealt with while you can make your own decisions!!
Agreed Families hate having to make that decision they always disagree its better if Grandma decides ahead of time. Because no matter what you decide there will be some doubt and some guilt.
Agreed.
I’m glad you brought up Terri Schiavo because the death panels are just another case of a purely medical issue being exploited for political purposes. Living wills, powers of attorney, advance directives as well as patient counseling are all perfectly reasonable and responsible ways of dealing with end of life issues before the fact in a less emotionally heated and traumatic environment and at a time when the patient can still have an input and make their wishes known. When this doesn’t happen, medical decisions are often skewed by family dynamics, and even fairly normal families can become seriously dysfunctional at such times with family members in denial or driven by guilt.
The whole death panel issue is seriously dishonest and really obscene using such a sensitive subject to score political points. But it highlights how little real debate there has been on actual healthcare. Almost all of the debate has been on funding. Well that is understandable. The reason we are even having this debate is because resources are finite and there need to be real adult discussions about the trade-offs we need to make between cost and care. But as the death panel discussion shows we can’t even do this on what should have been a completely uncontroversial issue.
Your Ok Cool! what happened?
In most cases, you’re right, but not here.
When the GOP frame is so laughably idiotic, the best approach is to do just that. Laugh at it. Point to it with one hand and cover your mouth with the other. Mock it unmercifully.
The only difference between the 2003 bill and the current amendment is that Medicare will PAY the health care professions for their time. SO you don’t want them paid?
This has been a provision written into law for 6 years BUT did not pay the provider but if you want to work for free, then go ahead……
You may be on to something here.
If you want to be honest about it, we are all inflicted with a terminal condition and reimbursing only those with a “terminal illness” is both morally and ethically dishonest and ambiguous. In other words, discriminatory and ultimately unenforceable.
Oh, yeah. And personal experience here – when my mother-in-law was hospitalized after a heart attack, having two more in the hospital (revived once), we ran into that. She had talked about her wishes some, but no advanced directive, etc.
She was pulling out her tubes repeatedly, so she was tied down.
The last time her son (my then husb) and I visited her in the ICU, she couldn’t talk because of the tubes.
I will never forget the pleading and misery in her eyes as she leaned toward us and stared into my eyes. She might have had a word balloon reading “Let me go!”
But it was a subject that the family could not even begin to talk about, because her daughter threw a fit at the slightest hint of not doing every possible thing to keep her alive. One family member out of 8 is enough to overrule every kind of oral knowledge, without an advance directive in writing.
Btw, that same night, about 30 min. after we got home from that hospital visit, we got the call that she had died. That last memory haunted us both for quite awhile.
Bingo.
But that gets me to thinking:
Grassley doesn’t want to pay them? But . . . but . . . but that’s . . . and unfunded mandate! That’s . . . SOCIALISM!!!
Well thanks to the GOP we are having this debate now. I agree we need real debate on healthcare I think putting Michael Moore’s film “Sicko” on network tv Prime time would help get the entire nation up to speed on the issues.
Sure the GOp trolls would go nuts denying everything… but we have links:)
They have Glen Beck repeating lies over and over again until they are believed.
“medical decisions are often skewed by family dynamics, and even fairly normal families can become seriously dysfunctional at such times with family members in denial or driven by guilt.”
Bingo! For one factual example, see my #60.
And we [MIL and whole family] were lucky. She was only hospitalized about 8 days before dying. In many cases, this kind of thing leads to weeks and months of misery for the unfortunate patient.
That’s why my mother, and many of her co-eval friends, are more terrified of this scenario than anything else about illness.
I was misdiagnosed with Liver Cancer and at the very last minute, and a new higher resolution CT scan they decided it wasn’t cancer!! I was getting changed into my hospital gowns when the preop Doc came in and said my transplant was canceled!! He then brought us over to my Liver Doc’s clinic where he explained the whys and wherefores! Needless to say we were in shock… If I hadn’t decided to ge to the new facility and had gotten a lesser resolution scan who knows I may have had a transplant I didn’t need!! Still feel in shock with all I & my family were put through!!!!
Maybe he’s not getting along with members of his family and believes thay might pull the plug on him.
All the more reason to have an advance directive in place. It tells the doctors and nurses “Regardless of what so-and-so might tell you, here’s what *I* want done . . .”
Something to keep in mind and also something that may vary from state to state but an advanced directive can be contested and changed by the family. A living will is I believe a legal document and so has more force. And someone with a medical power of attorney is even better because it gives healthcare providers a living breathing individual who can clear up any ambiguities or matters not addressed elsewhere. So it is good to have all of these but it is wise to remember that not all of them carry the same legal weight.
This was discussed a few days ago but what your wishes for these kinds of issues are at 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 and beyond often change and also depend upon one’s overall health state. Someone with a serious chronic condition at 40 may not have the same wishes as other 40 year olds. Most 70 year olds may not make the same choices as most 40 year olds. So it is also important to remember that all these things are not a one size fits all or once done forever done.
You are Damm Lucky that was close!
I think some people thing this is for terminal people only……
All of use have a time line…… none of us know when the end will be but the 2003 and the 2009 amendments are for every Medicare Beneficiary to discuss and complete advance directors. It is wise for anyone, especially with children, to have these documents in place.
A case in point, years ago I was working with a nurse in her early 40’s who had a young family, blew an aneurysm right at the nursing desk. No advance directives, no living will, thankfully the family was in agreement and no Schivo mess…..
And, of course, whatever portion of the sky-high bill your insurance didn’t pay (assuming you had insurance) you’d have been billed for anyway. Not necessary doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay for it anyway.
Actually, Hugh, I may be wrong, but if I recall from when my parents were getting theirs done, it’s the opposite. The living will has less force than the advance directive When there are family members who want all possible efforts, contrary to the living will, the doctors will usually follow the family member’s wishes. Advance directive can overcome that.
(but there are horror stories of doctors being cowed by family no matter how much paperwork the doc has from the patient. Family after all is alive, conscious, and quite able to sue, in contract to unconscious, possibly dead, patient.)
Case in point, my parents will was written in 1985….. the provision is to update the documents every 5 years. I’m so glad that my sister gets to deal with all that stuff :)
Ding! Very important, indeed. And when any family situation changes.
When my parents did theirs med powers of atty, they designated each other, of course, with me, their only child, secondary.
After my father’s death, my mother had a new one done designating me.
Way too fucking close for my liking!!
Medical & hardship status with Stanford! Otherwise We would have lost our home already!! This was almost a two year ordeal… But now we will be going on vacation for the first time in four years! Going to Boston for two weddings and up to Maine for a bit then over to NH and who knows what else we can cram in in ten days back there… Oh yeah may be meeting with billybugs and GregB!!
katymine, I’m very supportive of our Oregon Death with Dignity law, somewhat misleadingly known as physician assisted suicide. If that gets into this debate, conservatives’ heads will truly explode!
I worked in AIDS care. Our patients were doing well in treatment, but, in addition to advanced directives, they were relieved to know that if they wanted to take medications to end their life in their last six months, they could do so. The safeguards for the use of this are in place. It was rarely used, but it was reassuring that it was there. Conspiracy theorists also convinced some people that treatment, or the very concept of HIV, was a government conspiracy (which their doctors were part of?). They would believe it and delay treatment to the point where the progression of their disease made treatment nearly hopeless.
Grassley, Palin, and others are frightening the frail elderly for political gain. It’s more disgusting to me, the more I think about it. And their lies will make people reluctant to plan for end of life care, leading to unnecessary suffering.
I am glad things turned out for you but there is just a lot wrong even in the little you have said about what happened. The misdiagnosis, the lack of imaging follow up or a biopsy to verify, being put on a liver transplant list under such conditions (many kinds of cancer, especially intestinal ones, will met to the liver so what is the point of a transplant? It would just met there again. If the liver CA is the primary, well the only way you can know this is by biopsy.) It is always hard to know what the whole story is but a lot of this makes no sense on its face. Again glad you got out of it OK.
Oh, that is great, nahant. Sounds like you earned your vacation. *g* Enjoy!
(and wave at the ocean for me; this time of year I would love to be at Crane Beach – wait, is it greenhead fly time? – then at your namesake would be fine). Here in rapidly going-from-semi-arid-to-arid south central Texas, I really really miss the ocean. You have a great time!
Spencer’s liveblogging Marcy’s panel on torture now
I think they should be held criminally accountable for their lies personally!!
Thanks, it is important to know, and to ask, which of these instruments have the most legal force because they don’t all have the same.
If that gets into this debate, conservatives’ heads will truly explode!
Oh, hon, that ship has sailed. Wish I could give you alink, but I know I’ve already seen it referenced in comments somewhere: “….death panels will inevitabley lead to euthanasia based on income, already have it in Oregon…” kind of stuff. You know.
There’s no end to the misinformation out there. And the people, like McCaughey and Armey who start it off know well that that’s all they have to do, the endless game of “telephone” that is rumor-mongering will expand it from there.
Oh yeah we will be visiting Nahant.. Have to visit my deceased parents, sister, grandparents and of so many of my Father’s family that are at peace there overlooking the Atlantic… Sandy Beach to be exact!!
And, as I neglected to say, it may be different depending on your state.
And your doctor. It’s really important to tell your doctor, too.
although yet another ramificaiton in our screwed-up health care “system” is that when a patient is in extremis (old-fashioned, I know) – acutely ill,unconscious, dying, etc. – patient’s own doctor may not be much involved. Specialists that the patient has never met may well be in charge.
Another reason I stay here in TX is that I’ve had the same doc since I arrived here. When I was in ICU with complications of pneumonia (at one point considered far enough gone for my DH to be phoned at 2:00 a.m. and told to get down to the hosp if he wanted to say good-bye), she was in charge of the specialists who were seeing me in the hospital. When I was conscious again, I was really glad to see her every day, and know that she was keeping up with what all the others were doing.
I like having a dr. who really knows my history, and my weaknesses. She knows that I can have the first sniffles and faint cough in the morning, and bronchitis, full-blown, by afternoon. (Exactly what happened with the pneumonia – although that took another 24 hrs, already admitted by then).
Sounds like a lovely place to pass eternity! ;)