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	<title>Comments on: We Are All Steelworkers</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/</link>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955560</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955560</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I went to Catholic schools in the late 50s and early 60s, and we studied the history of labor, including the Pullman and Homestead strikes, and all the rest.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to Catholic schools in the late 50s and early 60s, and we studied the history of labor, including the Pullman and Homestead strikes, and all the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Synoia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955552</link>
		<dc:creator>Synoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree. But people look to immediate large transaction gains and don’t consider longer term.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. But people look to immediate large transaction gains and don’t consider longer term.</p>
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		<title>By: Blub</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955536</link>
		<dc:creator>Blub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955536</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;the only problem with their logic here is that if one follows the chain all the way down the rabbit hole, one will discover that behind all financial assets, no matter how inflated their values are, there has to be an underlying stream of cashflows.  Thus, in the longterm and for any given level of risk, there is no such thing as a financial asset that yields a return of 15%-200% in perpetuity when the underlying cashflows only implicate a yield of 8%-10%.  No forecast growth rate in those cashflows will ever justify the excess return in perpetuity (at zero risk arbitrage)…. which means that, eventually, you either wind up with the mother of all bubbles.. or you wind up with Madoff (because there was no underlying cashflow-generating asset to begin with).  There is no such thing as value outside of an actual or potential (and validatable) underlying cashflow, by definition. By definition, such a case is fraud.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the only problem with their logic here is that if one follows the chain all the way down the rabbit hole, one will discover that behind all financial assets, no matter how inflated their values are, there has to be an underlying stream of cashflows.  Thus, in the longterm and for any given level of risk, there is no such thing as a financial asset that yields a return of 15%-200% in perpetuity when the underlying cashflows only implicate a yield of 8%-10%.  No forecast growth rate in those cashflows will ever justify the excess return in perpetuity (at zero risk arbitrage)…. which means that, eventually, you either wind up with the mother of all bubbles.. or you wind up with Madoff (because there was no underlying cashflow-generating asset to begin with).  There is no such thing as value outside of an actual or potential (and validatable) underlying cashflow, by definition. By definition, such a case is fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: Synoia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955535</link>
		<dc:creator>Synoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955535</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;ROI from manufacturing 8% to 10%.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;ROI from financial trading 15% to 200%.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Where would you put your money?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I hear exactly the same discussion in London by stockbrokers in the late 1960s.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ROI from manufacturing 8% to 10%.</p>
<p>ROI from financial trading 15% to 200%.</p>
<p>Where would you put your money?</p>
<p>I hear exactly the same discussion in London by stockbrokers in the late 1960s.</p>
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		<title>By: Twain</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955534</link>
		<dc:creator>Twain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955534</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Excellent ! This sort of thing, along with Howard Dean saying today that Dems who voted against public option will be primaried, is the push-back we need.  It’s about time.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent ! This sort of thing, along with Howard Dean saying today that Dems who voted against public option will be primaried, is the push-back we need.  It’s about time.</p>
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		<title>By: Funnydiva2002</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955533</link>
		<dc:creator>Funnydiva2002</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:53:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955533</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow.  Good on them.  The “good” dems are going to have to use some more influence on the recalcitrant.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;FWDiva&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Good on them.  The “good” dems are going to have to use some more influence on the recalcitrant.</p>
<p>FWDiva</p>
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		<title>By: Teddy Partridge</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955531</link>
		<dc:creator>Teddy Partridge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955531</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/13/765850/-Labor-Leader-To-Blue-Dogs:-Dont-DARE-Ask-For-Support-(Video)&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Speaking of labor:&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
AFL-CIO Secretary Treasurer Richard Trumka traveled to Nevada on Monday to address the Sheet Metal Workers International Association (SMWIA) to talk about the new approach the labor movement will be taking towards conservative “Blue Dog” Democrats and Senate centrists like Senators Max Baucus and Blanche Lincoln.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The SMWIA is the first union to have suspended all campaign donations to ALL Democratic candidates until the Employee Free Choice Actand a bill addressing real Health Care Reform are passed.  The SMWIA, along with a coalition of over a dozen unions will be running ads next week targeting several Democratic Senators and a Republican.
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Links and video at link.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/13/765850/-Labor-Leader-To-Blue-Dogs:-Dont-DARE-Ask-For-Support-(Video)" rel="nofollow">Speaking of labor:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
AFL-CIO Secretary Treasurer Richard Trumka traveled to Nevada on Monday to address the Sheet Metal Workers International Association (SMWIA) to talk about the new approach the labor movement will be taking towards conservative “Blue Dog” Democrats and Senate centrists like Senators Max Baucus and Blanche Lincoln.</p>
<p>The SMWIA is the first union to have suspended all campaign donations to ALL Democratic candidates until the Employee Free Choice Actand a bill addressing real Health Care Reform are passed.  The SMWIA, along with a coalition of over a dozen unions will be running ads next week targeting several Democratic Senators and a Republican.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Links and video at link.</p>
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		<title>By: MadDog</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955529</link>
		<dc:creator>MadDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955529</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Totally cool Tula! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Or should I make that totally hot?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In my youth, I once worked a summer at a steel plant, but before Nomex existed, so it was my own shirts and jeans that always ended up with holes burned in ‘em. Talk about fookin’ warm!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And after each and every shift (3:30 to 11:30 PM), each of us looked like we had just come out of a coal mine. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;We were liberally covered in black coke used in the process, and having sweated through another 8 hour shift, that stuff was so embedded in our skin and clothes that normal washing just never got it out anytime soon.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And I learned that various auto parts are made of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ductile_iron&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ductile iron&lt;/a&gt; and they take hours and hours to cool down (yep, learned the hard way. Ouchie!).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally cool Tula! </p>
<p>Or should I make that totally hot?</p>
<p>In my youth, I once worked a summer at a steel plant, but before Nomex existed, so it was my own shirts and jeans that always ended up with holes burned in ‘em. Talk about fookin’ warm!</p>
<p>And after each and every shift (3:30 to 11:30 PM), each of us looked like we had just come out of a coal mine. </p>
<p>We were liberally covered in black coke used in the process, and having sweated through another 8 hour shift, that stuff was so embedded in our skin and clothes that normal washing just never got it out anytime soon.</p>
<p>And I learned that various auto parts are made of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ductile_iron" rel="nofollow">Ductile iron</a> and they take hours and hours to cool down (yep, learned the hard way. Ouchie!).</p>
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		<title>By: Sufilizard2</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955528</link>
		<dc:creator>Sufilizard2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:13:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955528</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yes, we must not forget the context of our present situation. We are just a small part of a long history. The labor movement is not some piece of dead 19th or 20th Century history — it is ongoing. The forces allied against working people have not stopped. They’ve changed tactics and pressed their advantage, but they have never relented.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even before the late 1800’s the movement involved peasantry against landed gentry. We can trace the movement at least as far back as the Magna Carta - if not all the way back to Jesus (read the book of James).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Declaration of Independence was a major milestone, but the oligarchs are patient and have steadily worked at chipping away freedoms and co-opting the democratic systems for their own uses.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And the battle rages on.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, we must not forget the context of our present situation. We are just a small part of a long history. The labor movement is not some piece of dead 19th or 20th Century history — it is ongoing. The forces allied against working people have not stopped. They’ve changed tactics and pressed their advantage, but they have never relented.</p>
<p>Even before the late 1800’s the movement involved peasantry against landed gentry. We can trace the movement at least as far back as the Magna Carta &#8211; if not all the way back to Jesus (read the book of James).</p>
<p>The Declaration of Independence was a major milestone, but the oligarchs are patient and have steadily worked at chipping away freedoms and co-opting the democratic systems for their own uses.</p>
<p>And the battle rages on.</p>
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		<title>By: Starbuck</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955527</link>
		<dc:creator>Starbuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/13/we-are-all-steelworkers/#comment-1955527</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Some people are steal workers, including some members of Congress!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people are steal workers, including some members of Congress!</p>
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