My belief is that no private-sector entity can survive over a long period of time competing against the government.

Wait a minute. Doesn’t this all fly in the face of the mantra as spoken by St Ronnie of Ray-gunz, Groveling Grover and all the other Free Market roolz types? You mean, the government actually IS more efficient than private industry?

Who ever could have anticipated…

Lindsey has always lived in a bubble and has never had to worry about anything. Other people are “other” people and not worth his time. He’s an absurd little man.

You don’t go to a witch doctor for health care treatment; you don’t go to a Republican for health care policy. It’s just not something they’re licensed to practice.

The Rs don’t seem to realize that they are actually saying that the price of private insurance is so high that no one will want it. Probably true, but if any company cannot compete they should go into some other business. I think it needs to be pointed out to people that Americans should not be forced to make sure that a company is profitable. I don’t personally care if all the health care companies fail as long as we have good gov’t coverage.

Some doctors do not actually have a price for people who need to pay cash.

I remember before I had health insurance, before it became the racket it now is, that a visit to my doctor for an annual exam cost $50. Now, 15 years later, the bill is nearly $500. Who knows the actual “cost” of the visit? There are now so many fees added for coverage.

Graham: My belief is that no private-sector entity can survive over a long period of time competing against the government

My belief look at the facts UPS, Fed Ex are doing quite well against the U.S Post Office, Moron!

Yeah and I have asked the doctor on many occasions how much a procedure costs. Most times they say I dunno with a dismissive attitude that implies “why would you expect me to know that? Disgusting.

KBR and Blackwater have proven they do a much worst job than the U.S Army:)

I think the public option will be on a level playing field as long as everyone, regardless of pre-existing conditions and age, gets coverage. Then the insurance companies can slash about 25-30% of their overhead since they don’t have to have whole divisions of their businesses focused on weeding out these people so they can maximize returns.

Wow, you got that right.

Hell, I still haven’t had the colonoscopy my doctor has been wanting me to get for 7 years because my out of pocket costs would be more than I can afford. Pleas do not tell me about “rationing health care” because we already do it through pricing.

exactly!

Not only has Ms. Lindsey not stepped outside his bubble in a long time, but he can’t even punch his way through a wet paper bag even if we started a hole for him to try!

People who don’t believe in government should not be asked to run it. Thats the problem with having GOPers trying to decide healthcare. Every first world country in Europe has Healthcare and they live longer than us on average.
And before the GOP gets racist and says something about dark people bringing the average down, Hispanics and Asians live longer than Whites.

Anyone with any business sense knows that these insurance companies spend enormous amounts of money on what is basically socially destructive behavior.

You can’t afford not to my brother.

Thanks we have to get rid of those clowns to reform our army we can’t afford them.

Bubble or closet, Graham is being deeply disingenuous. Healthcare is not like buying a car. You can always do without a car or keep driving your old one. But where do you get another life? Also where does Graham think all this money would come from for second, third, and fourth opinions? If you can afford to see that many physicians and get that many workups (because you better believe your insurance, if you have it, isn’t going to be picking up the costs for all of these), then you should be able to afford the course of the original treatment. And if you have an acute, life-threatening problem, would you really even have the time? Graham is proposing a lala neverland scenario. He is saying that patients are or should be responsible for containing the costs of healthcare when they of any concerned are the least able to.

You cannot convince a person of anything when their pay is based on not understanding.

A better opening question is: “How much have you received from the Medical Industry?”

Followed up with: “Who do you represent, South Carolinians or the Medical Industry?”

Can I get the Eddie Bauer appendectomy?

What an ass.

-G

Amen!

He’s an absurd little man.

heh. perfectly said.

on IndyStar.com, where some of the world’s most despicable trolls live, I use that a lot – e.g. “my, you’re an angry little person.”

such a simple little line – have never gotten a come-back.

What do you mean?

in the same boat – but currently totally uninsured. Guess I’m gonna have to take my chances.

it is pretty tough to shop cost for heart surgery or some other health emergency. it needs to be fairly priced at the get go or by some arbiter, such as an insurance company contract or, better still, a government competitive pricing mechanism.

excellent point about gooper investment in mismanagement of government.

I love it when Newt Gingrich says that the government has a $150billion in fraud problem in Medicaid. So, you’re telling me Mr. Gingrich that the private insurance companies are fucking the government for $150billion a year? You just said that????

Dean vs Gingrich on This Week, right now on the West Coast.

i haven’t had one either, though I’ve been told by Dr.s to do so for years. with Mr. siri in school full time and my hours having been cut, we absolutely cannot afford ANY testing at this time, but never really COULD afford that kind of testing in the past.
As far as being able to afford not to, if we get sick, it’s understood, we’ll die. End of story. I simply do not have the money to entertain the idea of “clutching to life” in the face of serious illness of any kind.
That’s been rather a given for most of my adult life.
It just is what it is.

Lets not forgot drug cost which are higher in this country than anywhere else on the planet even though we make the drugs sold to other countries and invented many of them. How many poor people take half a pill trying to get by until they can afford more?
I want the Dems to start mentioning that on TV Obama’s deal with the drug industry needs to be killed. I smell Rahm’s hand in this the guy is obvious.

1) I think he does not wash his hands after going to the washroom ever.

2) Are we really sure he’s a Chicago politician? Every White House leak that Obama ends up denying always seems to have Rahm’s fingerprints on it. If he had not worked for Clinton I doubt Rahm would have made ward captain Fitz or any other U.S Attorney would have busted such an obvious politician long ago.

Thanks Now if only we can get the Dems on Tv to steal that point:)

Gingrich stumbles when asked about Palin comment….

Wiki:

Graham was born in Central, South Carolina, where his father, Florence James Graham, owned a liquor store. After graduating from high school, Graham became the first member of his family to attend college and joined the Reserve Officer Training Corps. When he was 21 his mother died, and his father died 15 months later. Because he and his sister were now left orphaned, the service allowed Graham to attend University of South Carolina in Columbia so he could be near home and care for his sister, whom he adopted. During his studies, he became a member of the fraternity Pi Kappa Phi.

And you just know that 150 billion is part of their profits.

Dean agrees with Palin comment (as well as all of America)….No one wants “Death Panels”, and it’s not in the legislation.

I’m insured, but have mixed feeling about the colonoscopy. My aunt’s in the hospital because she was punctured…and don’t forget the story about all the people exposed to AIDS and other diseases because of unclean tools…Ick.

DrDick, ohhhh, now I’m worrying about you. Really, I do. Please take care, and I hope you get that colonoscopy done soon.

Reading Miss Graham’s smug little remarks totally makes me want to slap him. I spent the first half of my life (so far) with virtually no medical care AT ALL. Believe me, it’s not something I take for granted for one second of the day. And still I ask what everything costs.

Does the GOP realize how much money American Business spends on Healthcare? Now then if all those companies that give their employees healthcare instead of paying America’s inflated prices only had to pay what the French pay how many billions would they save?
We need that number what ever it is mentioned non stop on the news. Imagine what Cramer would say if that many billion dollars was reinvested by the companies the first year in a stock by back?
This would help the pension funds which lost their shirts investing in *cough* safe companies like banks and unsafe companies like hedgefunds for the *cough* cough* Cough* higher returns.
Lots of people on Pensions could then afford to spend again we are a Consumer Driven economy after all.

The insurance companies are corporate welfare they have a racket and want to keep it making good money.

A good thread like this makes me wonder why the Dems don’t borrow our ideas more as talking points.

Really, you have to do it. And you’re insured. So ask your internist for a referral to a gastroenterologist who does colonoscopies routinely. Before my first one, I was repelled and scared stiff, but a polyp was removed that might have gone bad. Colon cancer is one of the most treatable forms of cancer, but only if it’s caught EARLY.

This reminds me: I’m supposed to have another one this year. Better call first thing Monday. You, too!

When I worked and had what was probably a cadillac plan at the time, no premium, low low copay, I never looked at the cost. Once I retired without health plan available, I was fortunate to be able to join, of all things, a farming organization as a non-farming member and qualify for group health insurance. Decent premium, but high deductible…Now I am fascinated when I get those EOB’s and I see the amount my doctor bills versus the “negotiated rate”. The difference is astonishing. Example: I had a full blood panel, cholesterol, CBC, liver panel etc as part of my physical, the lab charged the insurance company $1200 for the service. The negotiated rate? $78.90, 6% of what the lab billed. My deductible made me responsible for the $78.90, but because that was the negotiated rate, that was the full extent of my liability. My round-robinson’s-barn point is, I realized that the premium you pay, particularly in a group plan, is like joining a club that gets you discounted rates that are significantly better than if you tried to buy the same services as an individual. This has to stop. The “negotiated rates” should be the same for everyone, not just the members of the “clubs.” I think this is the single biggest advantage of a public option and what will inevitably drive us to single-payer. Lindsey knows this, he’s just trying to hold off the inevitable for his corporate masters as long as he can.

Somehow we gotta get people believing that once you pay the deductible it still matters how much money you spend.

It doesn’t effing matter, Lindsay. If insurance premiums were like a car payment, and deductibles like an oil change or a new set of tyres or fixing the brakes, this wouldn’t be an issue.

But insurance premiums are like a house payment, and the costs to the uninsured can be the same as an effing house. Nobody saves up in the expectation of getting cancer. Or being hit by a bus. And the pricing is not for consumers. It never will be. It is the same price structure as first class airfares and Oracle licenses and conference hotels: it’s priced to be expensed or deductible somewhere along the line.

How many Senators and Housers have never held jobs outside of state and federal government? I really think it’s the majority of them.

I don’t think Graham needs a colonoscopy – all he needs is a little light so he can open his eyes and look around.

That would mean a politician would have to admit that a mere blog is at times better at giving political advice than the host of campaign consultants that the politician has been paying for all these years.

Some would rather eat tacks before admitting something like that.

Right, Rahm?

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Peterr and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

Lindsey Graham has been out of the DC “bubble” since January 20th but he like all the rest of the villagers doesn’t know it because they don’t know that the bubble has burst. We are, right now anyway, in a post-bubble economy and a post-bubble politics. The old methods of creating phantom armies of silent majorities and fake “movements” out of political stupidity are, for the moment anyway, impotent. The use of money, lobbyists and payoffs to deny the majority their will has been, for the moment, foiled and the “players” including the villagers, the media,and the elected Democratic leadership, have not been able to make a dent in either Obama’s favorables or the demands of the voting public for real reform of the healthcare system. The physics of history and economics are at work today to insure that the only way the old oligarchy can maintain its power is through force of arms and they don’t have the troops to pull it off.

SO yes, Miss Lindsey Graham is standing naked on the main street of the old village and he doesn’t know he hasn’t a stitch on.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND DON’T SHOOT YOUR OWN TROOPS!!!

the lab charged the insurance company $1200 for the service. The negotiated rate? $78.90, 6% of what the lab billed.

The “billing rate” is the BS rate: it’s like the retail cost for a business class seat on the day of purchase. You think that everyone in front of the divider paid that, instead of getting upgrades and freebies with their frequent flyer cards, or through deals and group discounts?

The undiscounted price is set to make it look as if the provider’s getting an X% discount. That’s what makes healthcare Not A Retail Purchase.

Most medical billing is a work of creative accounting. A chem 21 panel such as you had is a high volume automated process. Even at $80 the lab is making a profit.

Rahm is such a bad hack a true Chicago politician always tries to steal the best!

Lindsey Graham is an ignorant putz.

Right. I managed a Pediatrician’s office for several years. You figure out how much you “need” for a service, and let’s say it’s $75. Then you have to figure out how much to charge, so you actually receive $75. That number might be $300.

Then, to make matters worse, for the uninsured, IT’S ILLEGAL TO CHARGE THEM JUST THE $75. That’s right, illegal. The law says if you bill insurance companies or Medicare of Medicaid $300 for that service, THEN YOU MUST BILL UNINSURED FOLKS $300 for that service.

It’s so totally out of control, and represents NOTHING like an ordinary business (Yeah, I’ve managed those too, a bar for several years) and Mr. (or Miss) Graham is merely spewing the same BS they’ve spewed since the 1960’s. Sometimes I still can’t beleive how similar the scare tactics and phrases are. Of course the methods used to deliver those messages are vastly different, but some of you should find that old recording of Ronald Reagan from over 40 years ago and you’d be amazed at how similar the fear tactics were then as now.

And even more amazing to me is how often they work.

Sigh.

A Diary explaining this more would be good for everyone here.

Mr. Graham is a bought and paid for devotee of Corporatism. He long ago forgot that his purpose was to serve the best interests of the American people, not the American Corporation. He is an evangelical corporatist who purports to advocate the necessity of capitalism without recognizing that it also has critical disadvantages. Especially today.

Fifty years ago, there was genuine/healthy competition that fueled the furnaces of capitalism and both American business and workers thrived. But today, thanks to the ambitious greed and campaign contributions of big businesses to professional politicians, the abolition of rules and regulations that once protected and encouraged small businesses and prevented corporate monopolies have all but vanished. American big business is thriving at the expense of American small business and the American worker because, for all practical purposes, big businesses have become monopolies. The small businesses that Republicans claim fuel the American economy can’t survive competing against companies like Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Mittal Steel, Exxon-Mobil, News Corporation, Albertson’s, Inc., ING Group and AT&T. Fifty years ago, nearly every neighborhood, community and or small town had a corner grocery store, drug store, dry goods store, candy store, ice cream parlor, hardware store, appliance store, shoe cobbler, bicycle shop, barbershop, beauty salon, move theater, gas station, auto mechanic, TV Repair Shop……………too many more to mention.

Corporations that have become TOO BIG TO FAIL are destroying the competition of capitalism and the positive incentives it once represented to the American people. The Insurance Companies that Mr. Graham wants to protect don’t give two shits about the American people. And neither does Mr. Graham.

He’s useless and what Masaccio said at #50 above.

I wish I’d known what you wrote as ANOTHER response to two seventysomething white guys from Texas I spent time with last week. They were absolutely convinced that all indigent people need for medical care was “to just go to the emergency room.” I replied that ERs are not the place for any kind of routine health service, including well-baby or even sick-child visits, but they were adamant.

Five years ago I had an emergency appendectomy.
During the initial hospital examination the doctor told me I had to have an MRI to confirm the diagnosis. I had already seen my personal doctor who believed it was my appendix and sent me to the hospital. I asked the doctor how much it would cost, he replied $5,000. I told him that I was uninsured and couldn’t afford it. I mentioned to him that doctors had been diagnosing appendicitis without MRI
for a very long time (say 40 years) and I’d prefer not to have one and would sigh a waiver(they had already had me on morphine for an hour). He told me that it wasn’t possible to do, I asked why, and he replied that
“you folks have lawyers”. I am wondering what he’d have done if I had stuck to my guns and refused. I am slowly paying off the doctors bills. I calculate that I will have the hospital paid off when I am 94.

My question is, why should I have to haggle with a doctor when in a life threatening medical situation as if I were haggling over buying the upgrade package and whether I want a sunroof and leather interior? Lindsey Graham and all obstructionists can go straight to Hell.

A small favor to ask. I know that Lindsey Graham is not worth the paper he’s printed on but I would appreciate it if my fellow pups would resist the urge to use “Miss” in front of his name as a term of denigration.
Being female is not equivalent to sub human status as that practice implies.

The bigger concern about Ezra Klein’s Lindsey Graham piece is that it reveals three shocking facts about Ron Wyden, a supposed liberal Democratic senator from the blue state of Oregon, and member of the Senate Finance Committee.

1. Wyden just penned an op-ed in the Washington Post, along with a few Republicans and conservative Dem Senators, touting bi-partisanship as important and necessary in developing health-care reform.

2. According to Lindsey Graham, Wyden has promised Republicans and conservative Dems that he will drop the public option in favor of bi-partisanship to gain support for “his” (Wyden-Bennett) bill.

3. According to Graham, Wyden is doing this despite getting beaten up by his constituents back home over the public option issue.

Ron Wyden has sold his soul. His constituents in Oregon recently worked very hard state-wide to unseat Republican Gordon Smith with the election of Jeff Merkley, so that Oregon would be represented by two liberal Democratic senators.

Wyden his turned his back on the Oregonians who have repeatedly elected him, US citizens and members of his own party in the House and Senate – whose four committees have all included the public option.

As a long-time supporter of, and voter for, Ron Wyden, words cannot express the disgust I feel for him right now. He’s a disgrace to his party – and is selfishly banking on the fact that his plan will be the one to “save the day” for health-care reform.

While I personally like his idea of not being bound by the insurance your employer offers, Wyden’s bill as currently written is all about bi-partisanship, meeting Republican demands and allowing the insurance companies to keep their monopoly and stranglehold on heath care in this country. We need to call Wyden out!

FYI: Wyden’s bill allows citizens to select their own private insurance plans, but has no public option, mandates coverage, insurance exchanges would set up by the states and Medicaid and SCHIP would be eliminated and folded into the exchange.

It’s ALL OF THEM!!!

They have no idea what it’s like for people regarding healthcare, jobs, houses, food & gas prices, taxes, mass transit, poor road conditions, and on and on and on!!!

After having lived in South Carolina for about a year I can tell you that few of their Republicans have stepped outside of the bubble. They represent the meaning of a good ol’ boys club. Lindsey isn’t typically one of the demagogues – he is usually just clueless.

I agree with you, being a Ms. should not be used as a derogatory term. But in this case I think the commentors are referring to the fact that Lindsey Graham was featured predominantly on the website MenWhoLookLikeOldLesbians, and no offense to the fairer sex, or old lesbians, but the comparison was spot on.

Make him send all his mail FedEx.
Make him pay for mercenaries instead of the army, the navy, and the air force.
make him hire private companies to replace the Coast Guard.

idjits.

I went to a walk-in clinic (found out the rash was shingles), and the doctor made me sign an “AMA” form because I wasn’t going to get a mammo ASAP. I can’t afford to do it right now, and it’s not (IMO) a high priority/high-risk thing.

I want real public option, I want strict regulation of the insurance and drug companies, and I want the government to negotiate drug prices so we aren’t subsidizing Big Pharma.
If we can’t get those, I’m going to write my congresscritter and ask him to vote against it, because without those, it’s the same effing system we have now.

He looks like Aunt Bea to a lot of us. LOL

I don’t get it. What does being useless have to do with punching one’s way out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it? It seems to me that it would be more useless to actually do such an activity than to not do it.

Wow, Loo Hoo, Twain is right. Graham really is a low-life dirtbag.

An MRI before an emergency appendectomy? Really? Unbelievable! If I hadn’t heard that from you, of course. One of my sons had an emergency appendectomy a few years before yours, and I’d never heard of an MRI first. Regrets on those humungous bills–we learn something new every nanosecond about health care, or lack of health care, I fear…

The thing is that subsidies for the health insurance exchange are set up exactly analogous to how Republicans in favor of private school vouchers would set up those subsidies: the money follows the customer/student, regardless of whether they pick the public option or a private option. So, on principle, anyone in favor of school vouchers shouldn’t have a problem with the way the public plan and subsidies are structured in this bill.

But besides all that, those in favor of a public option want to have that choice. Lindsey Graham wants to take away your choice and force you to buy private insurance even if you’d prefer public insurance. How un-American is that?