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Paine was big on thinking, not just shouting (h/t DRB62)
They’re loud, obnoxious, and usually filled with fear. All they seem to be able to do is shout, tease, and fight. Think, ponder, contemplate, discuss? Not so much. They get their kicks and their sense of worth by making others feel small and doling out pain.
I think we are seeing where too many in the GOP learned their approach to civil discourse: the schoolyard playground at recess. "Let’s get me and my five friends together, to teach that [insert appropriate epithet here] a lesson." In classroom debates, their tactics are simple: talk louder than anyone else. I’m sure there are those in the GOP that don’t share this approach, but they are apparently too frightened of the bullies themselves to speak up.
It’s kind of sad, really, watching these rightwingers trying to shut down the conversations between elected members of the Congress of the United States of America and their constituents, all in the name of patriotic dissent. It’s like calling plagiarism "research."
Shark-fu nailed it the other day:
The story is not that there are mobs set to shout down members of Congress when they attempt to hold town hall meetings during recess.
The real story is that these mobs are passionately demanding that Congress not do it’s job and threatening to replace any representative who does try to do her or his job with someone who will promise to do nothing if elected.
Blink.
That ain’t Thomas Paine-ish behavior, people.
That’s some throwback pre-revolution loyalist bullshit and no amount of Lipton tea makes it good for America.
Preach it, sister.
And after a sermon like that, I’ve just got to sing. I think you know the words . . .
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Thanks, peterr. And keep in mind that if the Congressional Democrats ran their town halls by the Bush model, the astroturfers/teabaggers would never make it through the door. Where’s the police response to all of this pre-planned thuggery? Shouldn’t there be some fusion center activity here?
Whatever happened to intellectual honesty?
Are you kidding me??? How can you type this story with a straight face? This is the exact the game plane of the Democratic Party for the last several decades… You guys have to use this tactic otherwise you KNOW you will lose elections if you had to debate the truth. I sincerely get a kick out of reading this blog. It is really great entertainment. It makes we wonder how people’s thinking got so f*cked up. I pity you folks. What a sad existence you must have; wake up with bitterness, hatred and contempt and carry that throughout the day.
Good thoughts, Peterr. Thanks. I never miss Shark-Fu. Hate only destroys the hater and these wingnuts must lead really miserable lives.
Sometimes the trolls get started early. It may be a very long day.
If when I attend a local town hall meeting and it is disrupted by these cretins I will sue the organizers for violation of my civil right to assemble and address the government.
Who will rid me of this turbulent troll?
This is not pre-planned… this is a grassroots movement that I saw coming months ago. Every day that passes a few more people find out what is really in this health care take over bill and they are pissed. That is the reason BO and the rest of his minions (such as you folks) wanted to push this bill through because they knew once the citizens learned the truth that they would have no part of it… just as they are learning about the stimulus bill (that was a debacle and fell on its face).
Actually I won’t be here too long as I have work to do because I am a productive member of society.
Thanks for some comic relief so early in the day. You just proved the point of how intellectually and morally bankrupt your movement is. peterr is a man of the cloth who offers us very insightful, thought-provoking analysis based on facts he meticulously provides in his links. You might try moving from the Old Testament to the New. It will do your outlook a world of good.
Have a good day.
The only bitterness, hatred and contempt here are for those who pervert the First Amendment’s rights of speech, assembly, and petition in the name of some fantasy “America” that has never existed and never will.
In the words of the immortal NorskeFlamethrower:
OK, nice to see ya. Now go back under the bridge and outta the sun before ya fry that last brain cell.
Where are the republican townhalls? I guess getting out the chant “just say no” doesn’t require any discussion.
The reason you want to get rid of me is because you know that not a single person on this blog can keep up with me when having a debate on the truth.
The purpose of this blog is not for you to “debate.” Now run along and peddle your runny diarrhetic bullshit elsewhere.
They are staying out of the line of fire. They’re going to let them be a Democratic problem.
Believe me, every one of us can keep up with you. Stay around and see.
LOLOLOLOLOL *can’t breathe* LOLOLOLOL
Thank you for proving my point… it is much appreciated.
Free speech in your eyes is only allowed when you and your ilk want to speak out. When other people who do not share your world view want to speak out they are shouted down.
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-co…..onmemo.pdf
Too many scandals.
May I give my 2cents worth?
I think we ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
The GOP and the powers that be do NOT want the populace to congregate.
The ability for everyday folk to coalesce and come together is what is frightening these folks.
If the public understood that there is power in diversity-look at the election cycle that won Obama the Presidency.And there’s a whole lot more of US than there are of THEM.
Oh,yeah, the corporatcracy is fearful of any attempts to unite against ANY of THEIR $$$ interests.
Why, that’’s just a hop,skip and a jump to forming unions-the way THEY see it.
Wait till they do townhalls on EFCA!
BTW,didn’t Mussolini send in blackshirts to break up public meetings?
And I’m not?
I work 40 hours a week. I make too much money for Medicaid, but not enough to afford private insurance even if I didn’t have a pre-existing condition that, without insurance, would cost triple what I currently make in one year just to treat. And it’s treatment I need for the rest of my life.
I have Medicare right now, but Medicare self-terminates for me in less than 8 months. After that, it’s either throwing myself on the mercy of Big Pharma for help or letting my condition deteriorate back into near-death.
I have a friend who had cancer when she was 3. She will always have problems with her joints and muscles as a result of it. No insurance company will touch her. She had to forego graduating with her Master’s degree because she would lose her insurance.
There are MILLIONS of people just like her and I. And tens of thousands of us die every single year because we can’t get the care we need.
Tell me, does it ease your conscience to say that it doesn’t matter because you don’t know us? That it will never ever happen to YOU?
Weird how these trolls consider applying labels and calling names to be a debate.
This is the kind of bullshit that makes civil discourse impossible. You can argue the merits of the bill all you want, but this imputation of some kind of sinister motives to people who are sincere just makes it impossible. It’s not debate; it’s pure ad hominem attack.
And then you wonder why people call you a troll.
More debased than debated ,methinks.
Off on the business of the Queen. See almost all of you later.
I’d say this troll has gotten more than enough attention for today.
Compared to the trolls that infest the local newspaper around here, he’s pretty tame. The ones I hear from on a daily basis actually argue that we don’t even have the right to food or water.
Randian believers, the lot of them.
My boss is friends with a lot of the editorial board of the SP Times. One retired board member told him that the Times’ target demo was white women who made over $60K. Judging from the comments I see online I’d have to argue it was immature, uneducated white males making under $30K.
@28
Teabaggin troll?
Where’s the mods?
Peterr,
I think another aspect of the problem is the M$M. These days, “debate”, whether it is on Fox, CNN or elsewhere, merely consists of shouting over one another. Jon Stewart’s legendary take-down of Crossfire got that program pulled, the problem is that now the model from Crossfire has taken over the entire media. Our country has forgotten how to carry on a civilized discussion when people who disagree with one another are present.
Please explain the truth we’re supposed to be learning.
Issa does not hold town halls.
When you have no good argument, you shout and once you need to shout, you have lost the argument.
If you want bullies look at therawstory.com by Muriel Kane: Health care opponent calls for town hall violence via Twitter. Particular target for those encouraged to carry their guns to townhall meetings is the SEIU… Any doubt that big corporations are behind these efforts to shut down debate, intimidate legitimately elected representatives? Who’s trying the burn the Reichstag?
My rep., Ed Perlmutter, is having one at 1:00 that I am signed up for.
Bingo.
It’s also one of the reasons I like FDL. Folks here do not at all agree with one another, but we do a pretty good job at keeping it civil and holding one another accountable via links and evidence to support our positions.
I remember the debate squad teams at my Catholic alma mater.
Jesuit influenced to be sure.
What I see that is touted on M$M as informed comaparison and contrast of issues,i.e.,debate ,is more WWF tag team ,than debate team, tactics.
And like wrestling,it is Kabuki theater,for the same target audience
In all seriousness..Although I sympathize with you on your ailments… I do have to ask.. Why do you put so much trust in the government? Do you really think they will give you the treatment you will need? Do you have no concerns that some bureaucrat behind a desk is going to deny you health care because of the cost? Then what will you do? You have too much trust in the government.
I work anywhere from 45-50 hours a week and have insurance through my employer. My wife has RA (rheumatoid arthritis). Here injections are about $2800 per month that my insurance covers all of. Obviously we could not afford it if we had to pay for it and I have no confidence that socialized medicine would “allow” her treatment because I know as well as all of you do that the number one goal of that bureaucrat will be is to cut costs…
I’d have to disagree with that generalization. The media presents us with what they want us to see. Our city council and county commission meetings don’t look like this. The city of Gulfport in recent years has had some really contentious issues come up, some spanning years, but we have never encountered this kind of behaviour. Everybody gets their say, one at a time, until everybody has had their say. I’ve been at some city council meetings that lasted late into the night.
One other thing…. If medicare or medicaid won’t cover you why do you think that this new health care bill will??
Socialized medicine? What the heck do you think Medicare is but a gov’t run health care program? As one who has Medicare, I assure you that it works extremely well.
The glorious bureaucrats at the private insurers trip over themselves to pay claims which is why they have lost so many law suits for denial of service.
Why do you put so much trust in the accountants of a private insurance company? Their primary obligation is to provide wealth to their stockholders, not health to those they insure. The incentive structure of the health insurance industry is to maximize their profits, not to maximize health.
That’s what we are trying to get !!!!!!! A program that covers everyone and no one can be turned down.
Twain,
I know damn well it is a gov’t run health care. Tell Spotts1701 how “extremely well” it is ran… Did you not read what he wrote??? Here is what he wrote in case you missed it… “I have Medicare right now, but Medicare self-terminates for me in less than 8 months. After that, it’s either throwing myself on the mercy of Big Pharma for help or letting my condition deteriorate back into near-death.”
Sounds like an extremely run plan…
Hate to agree with you but I also have RA. Medicare Part D pays for me to receive antiquated treatment but any of the modern treatments that my doctor and I would prefer would immediately throw me into the donut hole (intitial coverage limit) and require me to spend thousands out of pocket before coverage started again.
Of course, that is largely the result of the bill creating Medicare Part D having been written by and for Big Pharma and the insurance companies, as appears to be the trend with proposed health care reform today.
Yes, thankfully you are right for the most part on local issues. I was primarily talking about the national issues that are dominated by the national press. But that is one of the dangers of the current attempts to stir up anger in folks before they attend local town halls. How long until that spills over to a local county commission meeting where a tax increase is on the agenda for discussion?
@43
Why do the politicians who seem to hate government so much go into politics to begin with?
WHY do they not have problems with governmnet based health care when it provides THEM and their families with coverage on public tax money?
WHY was there no outcry of government being too big when the taxpayers were “held Up” to bailout WallStreet casino capitalism bets?
Should not the tax payer,who footed the bill for the bailout-without even a say so in the deal- not get a return on the “investment”-namely decent health care?
If he’s over 65 and on Medicare it never “self-terminates.” If he’s on some supplemental package that may be true but not the basic Medicare hospitalization coverage.
On edit: It would appear you’re combining all the various programs under Medicare as one thing, not separately. Be more specific in your critique.
Insurance companies are not in the business of paying claims, they’re in the business of retaining premiums.
If they do otherwise, they’re open to lawsuits.
An insurance company’s reputation for fairness, low cost, comprehensive coverage, etc. etc. is only valuable insofar as it drives more premium-paying clients to their doors and they can retain those premiums. By itself, it’s worthless.
I don’t know what his circumstances are but it sounds like a special situation. When you reach the right age, there’s no way you can be thrown off Medicare – unless you were cheating in some way. Don’t know why he would be taken off after 8 months but that’s not the usual Medicare.
FYI… their profits are only around 10%… actually very low for most business. Most businesses are around 20-25% and some are higher. Where you guys get hung up is the total profit. You see a big number and you subjectively think that it is unreasonable.
I’ve had the other experience on the local level on more than one occasion. I’ve been a pastor for twenty years, but it’s only in the last year that I’ve been publicly abused and insulted at a city zoning meeting by an angry member of the community who took the opposite position from mine over a proposal on the agenda.
The GOPranos may bully people at town halls but we can peacefully pressure their campaign contributors who fund conservatives in both parties by signing these petitions which send out immediate emails demanding single payer health care.
Sign these
http://bit.ly/HR676
http://bit.ly/single_payer_ross
Read our blog http://blog.democratz.org
Sadly, if those advocating for violence and incivility don’t suffer socially and politically for what they are doing, you will see lots more of this. I’m sorry to hear that it already is happening in your area.
Show us your source for those figures, and not some blog post somewhere.
Ratfood @48… my wife is only 38 and has had it for 6 years… I hate to imagine what she will be like when she is 60. Her father who has it is a complete physical wreck and has been that way for over 25 years.
To everyone.. I am not saying that the health care system is perfect, because it is not. I would rather have systematic and incremental changes to the system instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water. For one we need serious tort reform. A very sizable part of our health care costs is liability insurance that the healthcare professionals pay that in turn get passed onto everyone…
Do you realize that you could lose your job AND you health care? Do you know that your insurance company can drop you for no reason at all – especially if you have an illness that is going to cost them lots of money? Did you read about the woman who had breast cancer and her insurance company refused to pay for surgery on the excuse that she had a pre-existing condition -ACNE? You could pay into your plan for 20 years and be turned down for a life-threatening illness. I’m glad you have good insurance – may not last through next week, though.
Oh, for cryin’ out loud. Now it’s the medical malpractice boogeyman. Once again, show us some credible documentation for your claims.
OT
Speaking of being bullied,Sibel Edmonds is being deposed as we speak. Live blogging at Brad Blog.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7347
latest update:
8:40am PT (11:40am ET): During a break, Edmonds and the attorneys stepped outside.
DoJ still a no-show, so the questioning has proceeded, and Edmonds has been able to say “everything that she hasn’t been able to say so far, implicating many members of Congress in a criminal conspiracy,” according to interviews with Fein and others.
Edmonds’ attorney, Michael Kohn said: “The Justice Department decided not to show. Therefore, the deposition has gone much more smoothly than we had anticipated.”
Edmonds told me in a brief phone conversation during the break: “Bruce Fein is raising objections to everything”, though that’s to be expected. She said she’s been asked, and has answered, questions on Dan Burton (R-IN), Dennis Hastert (R-IL), Stephen Solarz (D-NY), and other questions on those high-ranking officials and lobbyists in her “State Secrets Gallery”.
She added that “somebody said the FBI was given the wrong time, for 11:30 instead of 10:30″, though she didn’t see how that could be, given that the time for the start of the deposition has been well publicized. In any case, it’s now 11:45am ET, so we’ll see if they showed up during this break. They have now gone back into session…
The DoJ is not (so far) present or evoking the State Secrets Act
She is answering all questions
The GOPranos act as hypocrites. They do not mind big government as long as it means national defense, oil wars, police, firefighting, and their set of social tenets like banning abortion.
But when it comes to helping the poor, and helping the middle class with minimum wage, unemployment insurance, product and workplace safety legislation, these GOPranos somehow cry big government. They do this similar for deficits which they deliberately create so Democrats cannot easily increase social programs.
Color of Change has had some interesting results lately with regard to Glenn Beck’s advertisers:
Racism, Beck may be learning, is not terribly good for business in middle America.
(More at the link above.)
Well Jim you could call the FBI about Freedumbworks as these people advocate disrupting town halls which appears government business.
Look at message 56 where you can punish some of the contributors to conservatives by joining together and boycotting their products and demanding single payer from them
Not only that but whatever profits there are they are after bloated salaries and staffs, advertising, legal fees, law suits lost etc.
I’m certainly not a progressive and I am not a fan of big government. Still, I let the progressives win me over on this one issue. Why? Big government is the only entity that could administer the program properly. Most important of all is health care reform (progressive style) will allow many who have no coverage to get coverage.
Some once challenged me on my original stance. They said something like, “you’ve got yours so to heck with the rest of us.” You too have coverage just as I do but in the end we are all in this together so we must fight to see others who do not have coverage get it.
Might all this negatively impact the coverage you and I now have? Perhaps. But wouldn’t you rather wait in a doctor’s office a bit longer if you also knew some people were there for the first time because they finally had health coverage?
I’m so pleased about that. Color of Change is a great organization and I’m happy that I signed that petition.
Yes Peter, I read about the Glenn Beck Boycott on one of the Obama mailing lists.
Now you can also look at message 56 and sign those petitions and punish Tyson Foods, United Health Care and Rite Aid Pharamcies all who give money to conservatives.
Watching the videos of the shouting, fist-shaking meeting disrupters, I thought I recognized many of them. I did. I go way back, but they haven’t changed a bit. It was in the early 1960’s. They were lining the streets, shaking their fists, shouting and threatening other people who were peacefully walking down the street singing “We Shall Overcome”. It’s the same crowd, acting the same way, for the same reasons, with the same excuses.
@63
I was reading an article the other evening that said that these are the new coda for racism.
Slashing social programs is one the new forms of institutionalized racism,insidious, and elevated to an artform by the Dixiecrats,otherwise known as Blue Dogs.
I got another appellation or two for them…..
Right on. Wasn’t it yesterday or the day before we were discussing targeting advertisers? Mayhaps they are payin’ attention. The companies want to see their revenues increase in a near depression, not decrease.
Yep. Those all fall under the broad category of “operating expenses.”
It’s Medicare coverage as a result of End Stage Renal Disease.
If I was still on dialysis, I would be covered indefinitely.
But I got a transplant. Under Medicare guidelines, ERSD patients who receive transplants have 36 months of additional coverage and are then dropped regardless of whether or not you obtain private coverage elsewhere.
Of course, I have to take anti-rejection drugs forever.
I don’t trust the government completely, but I trust them a whole hell of a lot more than private insurance. It was a HMO that assigned me to a doctor that misdiagnosed my condition back in 2000 and treated it ineffectively (of course, not ineffectively enough to be called malpractice). It was an HMO that my mother spent years fighting just for them to pay their share of my treatment costs. And now, it’s private insurance that will NEVER cover me again because of my pre-existing condition.
You and the post remind me of the common assessment of W: Does not play well with others.
That’s fuckin’ crazy!! Every bit of it.
On edit: Have you told your horror story to your rep, senators?
Thanks for your help. Over time I expect that you just might find a few more progressive positions you can endorse now that you accept we are all in this together.
I am so sorry but am glad you had the transplant. I don’t understand at all why you would only get 36 months.
That type of thing should be brought in the new bill – whatever that is. It should be All Coverage-All the Time.
And insurance coverage not available after the birth of a “Premie”…nice
The exec salaries were quoted last week….obscene.
My rep is a useless neocon named Dean Heller. He’s the one who’s trying to kill any meaningful health care reform by slipping “poison pills” like requiring all Congressmen who vote for it to enroll in the program.
And my Senators are John Ensign and Harry Reid, so you can see how well I’m represented.
For the mom, the premie, both? That’s fuckin’ crazy too!!
Outside of the military all I’ve had was the VA and that was on an emergency basis, because I didn’t have a service connected condition, until I hit 65 and Medicare. I’m certainly thankful that I’ve never been sick or seriously injured.
Holy shit, I’m sorry, man. Hang on, we’re gonna try to change that next time around.
Remember the woman (earlier this year, I think) who quit the health insurance business and told the story of people actually getting extra pay for NOT allowing claims. She said that they were encouraged to turn down treatments that were going to be expensive.
Ya know, I used to know a rubber plantation where they could learn some real valuable labour skills.
Thanks, Twain and SD. Yeah, I haven’t exactly had the easy road.
But I will say I didn’t wallow in my illness – I finished my college degree, went on and got a graduate degree, went out and got a job.
Of course, this job vanished when the economy started souring here in 2007. I’ve bounced from temp job to temp job trying to find something better, but I’m a legal researcher with a law degree (I’ve taken the state bar here three times, but can’t quite get over the hump to pass) in a state where there are about 150 applicants for every 1 job. We had 1000 people show up to apply for 50 jobs at a new Olive Garden. I’ve even applied to be everything from a secretary to a computer teacher just to get something that pays better than $9 an hour with no bennies.
I’m a long time reader and first-time poster that has been cringing since I started seeing the mobs at the town halls. I have personally been on the receiving end of this kind of attack for not conforming and the post today has coaxed me out of the shadow.
I think this is the Authoritarian Dynamic in play. Any hint of change and conservative people get nervous. They normally control their environment by ganging up and forcing into submission the person or people who is causing the change or upheaval. What they don’t realize is this gang up, school yard bully tactic works only on other Authoritarians who would be devastated by being shunned by the group for not conforming.
After much back and forth personally, including being told to F myself, my attorney sent a letter to my neighbor that if they did not bring their X in compliance with the deed restrictions, I would be forced to file suit.( cowardly, broke HOA) When I arrived home the day they received the letter, the neighbor and spouse and 3 other couples from the block were seated in lawn chairs at the end of the driveway with a cooler of beer waiting for me. As I drove up to my mailbox and rolled down the window, they began shouting at me, things I couldn’t hear except the obscenities. I drove into the garage and phoned my attorney. I should have called the police. When they realized I wasn’t going to engage with them, the mob picked up the chairs and went inside. They tried several times to get me to meet with them, sending various neighbors to ask if I would just talk to them face to face. Yeah, right, and be met by the posse, as I called them. To this day, many of the people on the street won’t talk to me, most of the “posse” has moved, and the new neighbors think these people are nuts. But I stood my ground and by being tough and not engaging them, I came out on top as far as I’m concerned.
Thanks for letting me express my experience with the Authoritarian mob. The only way to deal with them is to push back in a determined, unmoveable, but non-aggressive way. You can’t shout them down and you can’t shame them. We can only hope that as the economy improves, and the kids go back to school and people get into their fall activities, that many of the followers will drop their pitchforks and go home. And the small group that’s left will start to feel exposed.
There was a major lawsuit lost by an insurance co. in NY against an ins. company for paying bonuses to employees for avoiding paying anything for legitimate claims.
Don’t give up. When I lived in LA I had a friend who made a career out of trying to pass the CA bar exam. Threw the biggest party when he did. Well over 10 times iirc.
Off to a townhall. Let yall know what happens later.
Agreed. Welcome to the Lake, mocha. Don’t be a stranger.
To quote Capt Kirk:
Shields Up!
End stage renal disease is the one and only pre-existing condition that Medicare rejects. We can be sure it was frederic’s friends who insisted on putting the restriction in the legislation, as they always do. I don’t know what the 36 months is about. I think we’re not getting the full details here.
Both, etc. Like family coverage
Man, oh man. Where’s my thermal lance? Gotta see a man about an insurance building.
Good luck. I hope you are allowed to ask some good questions.
Be careful.
Welcome. Don’t just lurk – comment often, please.
Hell, I just hope he gets to ask a question. Gonna be interesting.
Welcome — glad you added your voice to the conversation.
Wow, was I wrong about that. The Medicare application asks about ESRD because it make someone eligible for Medicare, not ineligible.
so… if your little family story is to be believed, you seem even more like a
hare-brained idjithapless citizen trying vainly to ram his bloated head through a deserted rat hole simply because it’s the only trick you know.Either way, truly sad. Suggest u grow up and think outside your own leaky teabag. Yer astroturfiness withers in the midday sun.
Next?
“If you have Medicare only because of kidney failure, Medicare will pay for your immunosuppressive drug therapy for 36 months after the month of the transplant.” – from Medicare’s “Coverage of Kidney Dialysis and Kidney Transplant Services” handbook.
Edit – saw your update Dean. Please do not take offense at this one.
Left ya one at PUAC.
Aw, Adie, yer late. He done flew da coop. For now at least.
Thanks Mike. Be careful out there. ;->
Furthermore, ESRD makes one eligible for Medicare even before age 65.
This is apparently the 36 month thing:
There is no minimum age limitation. Provided all eligibility requirements are met, a person’s Medicare entitlement as a result of ESRD begins with the earliest of the following four occurrences:
* The last day of the 36th month after the month in which an individual receives a kidney transplant. If within 36 months after transplantation a person requires another transplant or returns to dialysis, there is no interruption in entitlement.
Dang! Where’d I put those trekking poles?! U really want him? I thot u wuz done playin’. Remind me of the lil’ tigers, u rascal.
How’s Gigi?
Got it.
Naw, I don’t want him.
Vet did xrays Thursday morning. Cancer in and around her stomach. That afternoon she laid her little head on my chest and began her journey to Rainbow Bridge.
I’m so sorry. At least she had a wonderful caring friend at the end. You’re a special fella. Puts those stunted trolls in perspective.
p. e. a. c. e.
So sorry about Gigi.
Thanks. Now I gotta get outta here and get my chores done.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
Maybe…..over time.
So very sorry for your loss. Thanks for the kind greeting. May peace be in your heart today and heal your sorrow.
Your choice of artwork demands comment.
there’s a lot of irony in Glen Beck using Tom Paine’s pamphlet as the title for his summer 2009 comedy shows. He took it a bit further with his appropriation of Franklin’s “Unite or Die” flag.
The irony is in the tactics he’s encouraging – not civil discourse, but uncivil shouting down of opposition by a minority. Even when the majority isn’t right it is immoral, unethical and profoundly any-democratic to stifle discourse, and the minority that is engaged in this is reprehensible. Shame on you Glen.
The fact that the title of his book is Common Sense is so offensive to me. Paine must be whirling.
I grew up in the 1950’s. Needless to say I no longer recognize this country.
Beck is canny in using FF imagery to promote his agenda. A lot of his mob have reverence to the Revolutionary War era figures, and using them enhances his message.
The FF’s spinning in their graves has been an energy source used by birchers for years now. Don’t know how much longer the bearings attached to them can hold up before the dynamos succumb to centrifugal disintegration.