Tut, tut.

Glenn vs. Keith.

Two programmed persons.

Their reporting has always been suspect, though; their parent is one of the largest munitions makers as well as one of the largest medical equipment manufacturers. Will this episode mandate a larger grain of salt when I watch MSNBC? Yes. Was I watching MSNBC salt-free before this? No.

Both Olbermann and O’Reilly are immature egomaniacs. Drop them both in a sandbox and let them slap it out.

I sure hope there are some lessons learned by Rachel Maddow in all this.

I’m certain Tonka would love to back that up.

You mean like “progressives are as forgiving as stalinists”?

it remains to be seen if KO has effectively been muzzled… i prefer to believe that KO will not refrain from being very vocal re bullshit being fed to us by GE shills… maybe im naive but he has scrubbed shill slimy wolfe from his show.. i’ll be watching this real drama as it unfolds………………

If the corporate parent of MSNBC is spiking stories on a regular basis because it affects their business objectives, then there is not a sufficient firewall between GE’s corporate and news divisions, and all of MSNBC’s reporting is suspect.

I know KO is in a bit of hot water now, but is MSNBC trustworthy other than KO and Maddow? How many people here trust Ed? So include Ed then. That still leaves only 3 trustworthy on-air people there.

You’d probably be the best judge of that.

Holy shit. This is one of the biggest- most important- news stories out there, because it’s so damn obvious- they’re not even trying to hide it! Where’s the outrage, people? Where’s the people outside GE’s corporate buildings shouting ” Stop fucking with the truth?”

Maybe they’re obvious because there is no outrage, or there’s no outrage because it’s obvious… A chicken and egg situation, I believe.

KO will be muzzled by this, I guarantee it; if only because he’ll be paranoid about it happening again. I knew the Internet and its blogs were the only good source of news… but I still dreamed that KO might be another one.

Olbermann lost me with his obnoxious and belligerent primary coverage during the 2008 election. He was willing to say anything, no matter how blindingly stupid, to suck up and buck up Barack Obama. He is fine entertainment, but not much of a journalist.

When you have aproximately 3 hours a day on teevee that you can even stomach watching it’s not like you want to see any of it go away.

I am confident the parent companies of all the major news outlets exert too much influence over content. The question is, should journalists with integrity refuse to participate in the charade, or hang in there and attempt to provide as much objective reporting as they can get past the censors?

How do you forgive someone for obeying a corporate overlord rather than principles? Progressives can be quite forgiving- when it’s deserved.

I hope FDLers and other bloggers take any media reporting with a grain of salt. As much as Olbermann and Maddow are better than the poor reporting and commentary standard on TV/Cable, and I include NewsHour in this, their words should be parsed along with others. They have axes to grind and use their bully pulpit just as O’Reilly, though they actually use some facts.

I initially enjoyed Keith; not so much now as he’s turned into a blowvater. Regardless, I find it funny/scary that the bigwigs at GE and NewsCorp had a sit down. Who says we can’t have managed news. Capitalism uber alles.

I would have to go with Glen Greenwald %100! Glen has always been straight up, meticulous, and in my opinion completely honest in his reporting. I like KO and Countdown (even though I rarely watch it anymore. T mean it’s clear Olbermann is nothing more than an Obama apologist and lapdog) and he did continue to host Richard Wolfe and I’m sure he knew what was going there.

Keep up the FANTASTIC work, Glenn!!! The Progressives need you!!

So how do you feel about Obama?

Glenn Greenwald is the new Keith Olbermann!… I never thought I’d write that!

Furious, with a dose of rage. I think he’s become the ultimate salesman- he made us buy his shit in bulk.

That’s right, he’s a pig. [Edited by Mod] well, you had to be there I guess

I hate to admit it, but I agree with you in your first paragraph. I think that KO was so much above “normal” media, by virtue of having two brain cells to rub together, that we idolized him. An unfortunate idea…

:) Agreed.

Poppycock to think that the path to journalistic integrity lies through KO’s corpse. Everybody read today’s news and get back to the real issues.

HA HA HA HA! The ”Holy Trinity” of FDL, Open Left and Greenwald strike again! Thank the Lord that you three websites are the only ones to not drink the kool-aid and see The Truth! Hallelujah and Amen!

Whatever would we do without the Holy Trinity guiding our way?! We’d be lost!

Yea, till you need to hit me up for money.

With all due respect, Obama didn’t MAKE anyone buy anything. In any comparison with John McCain, Obama is the far lesser of evils but he was never very progressive.

what due respect?

well this isn’t the happiest day

Guess I’ve gotten too old to be surprised when it turns out that politicians bear little resemblance to their campaign ads.

Especially for the parents of the soldiers killed in Afghanistan today.

Gee, Tweety is gonna uncover left wing nuts who are as crazy as birthers.

I’m happy that Bill Clinton apparently managed to get the imprisoned journalists released.

I meant the comment warranted “what respect”?

Nah, he wasn’t progressive.

I know I turned the teevee off when I saw that.

Who would that be?

I didn’t specify a quantity. The amount “due” could be anything from zero to infinity.

Not to take away from the power of Bubba. Yep, that was good.

The people who think 9-11 was an inside job.

Citizen Raven:

Welcome to the firefight, Brother Raven. It seems that these folks have focused on the wrong fuckin target again…if it hadn’t been for Olbermann blowin’ this Hitler-Stalin Pact up on national television there wouldn’t be light on the God damned manipulation of political programmin’. Jesus, I’m too old for this shit!

Tut, tut.
Glenn vs. Keith.
Two programmed persons.

glenn programmed? how so?

He didn’t get to it yet, he’s busy marveling at the grassroots anger of the town hall revolutionaries.

i’ll still take msnbc from 8-10pm over the rest of the newschannels… at least there’s a chance some truth will out… there’s no other spot on the 3 newschannels that doesn’t feed us corporate slants… is anyone perfect?? NOOOO but where’s the alternative on the teevee? lets not draw the firing squad just yet… my motto is to watch and make my own mind about everything i read and see…

It all reminds me of the endless bullshit in the “movement” 40 years ago with everyone trying to prove how smart they were.

The damn book salon has had me reading Nixonland on the crapper for the last month. . .the dude writes detailed stuff but he’s talking about stuff I wasn’t sure anyone knew.

He talked about it in the teaser. It’s about the conspiracy theorists who believe the government was involved in 9-11.

I thought he was saying that like the birthers and 9/11 idiots that there are similar theories on the left. Morning Joe was all over that talking about people that said Bush was sellin blow in the hood and shit like that. None of them mention that congress people have signed on to the birther deal.

Yes, obviously as pressing and important as the birthers, and as disruptive to the current national discourse. Tweety scores again.

My hairy eyeballs.

Ah ha. Somebody was on that the other day — that guy slamming Stark.

He said the 9/11 people equaled the birthers. I don’t remember any Dems that egged them on though.

How does Barbara Boxer have time to write a novel?

Hrrm. FDL still has balanced readership and commentary. Must investigate.

Citizen Raven:

I remember the scholastic bullshit between the Stalinists, the Maoists, the Trotskyites and the “liberals”…the only thing the first three had in common was their hatred of the libs. But be careful though, if it weren’t for a lotta the kids in the streets who didn’t know Karl Marx from Groucho, LBJ woulda been re-elcted and we’d still have half a million troops in the ‘Nam.

Yet another example of false equivalency. The 9-11 conspiracy theorists don’t have any serious backing. The “birthers” are being encouraged by the GOP and members of Big Media and even bankrolled by Republican donors.

Or that 9/11 people were/are on the left. (cept for several of our firepup 9/11′rs that is)

Yeah I don’t remember any resolutions being offered by Dems in support of “George Bush planned 9/11.”

Could have missed it I suppose.

Release the hounds!
hey balrog

I don’t remember them getting any serious media attention, either. Unlike the birthers. Or at least, they didn’t until they were needed to serve the needs of “balanced presentation.”

Fuck Tweety and the bowlegged burro he rode in on.

I liked the green army

The ‘Green armies’ often used green and black colors as well as the combinations of those two.

The Green armies, Green Army (Russian: Зелёная Армия), or Greens (Russian: Зелёные) were armed peasant groups which fought against both the Red Army and the White Army in the Russian Civil War.

Hey Newt! You “got better”!

Tweets will say…ANYTHING typed and put in front of him…that is all

I love it when Keith gets that wild-eyed psycho look. Makes me wonder how many body parts are in his freezer.

If that is a euphemism for ‘older,’ then you are correct.
How’s the WeeRog?

Or tried to pass legislation legitimizing it. It’s our wonderful liberal media at work.

smells trolly…take a whiff

Citizen Raven:

You sir were born too late…you woulda been a “Wobbly” and if you had they woulda kicked even more ass than they did.

What about the 100,000 or so troops we sent in 1919 to hook up with the White Army?

KO has giant sized balls,he took on the shooter ……..remember

Actually a Python reference.

WeeRog is 2 and both more and less entertaining these days. Thanks for asking.

The idea that anyone in the corporate media has total editorial control is absurd, and has been since before the days of Edward R. Murrow.

The best at what they do play the bureaucratic game and get as much editorial freedom as they can; it’s easier when like, O’Reilly and Lou Dobbs, your agenda aligns perfectly with the PR agenda of your employer. For Olberman, Maddow, and Schultz, the task is more difficult and there are carefully made tradeoffs just to keep what independence they can muster on the air. Or have we so soon forgotten what the corporate media was like before MSNBC got desperate enough for ratings to woo a progressive audience.

It is good to hold their feet to the fire, but understand that they don’t own their megaphone like most bloggers do.

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night

I’m a Fawlty Towers (Germans) man, myself.
Glad to hear it.

i just had a wonderful…Mr.Stripey from my garden….wish i could send you all one

Don’t mention it (the war).

U were right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…..re=related

Yeah, it’s not like he made any strong, definitive statements or anything…
Tom Tomorrow deals with this idiocy rather effectively…

FunnyWheelieDiva

PS: if you don’t like how Jane’s using her blog-estate, CHANGE THE F @ CKIN’ CHANNEL ALREADY.

my thoughts as well….

my dog was named after Basil Fawlty

I turned off the teevee when I saw the teaser. Tweety is such a stupid f**k.

Oh, thank you, sadly.
I think you mean an heirloom tomato? Or am I missing a pop culture reference.
If it’s the tomato, I’m sending you fresh-ground black pepper and delicious fleur de sal for flavoring. Hope it was warm from the sun, too.

FWDiva

Maybe it’s possible to condemn GE without making KO a casualty. His complicity isn’t the issue here – GE’s willingness to censor is the issue.

KO could take that issue head on. And possibly lose his job over it. And although MSNBC would lose a lot of viewers as a result of KO getting fired, MSNBC is a minor part of GE’s profit so they may find it worthwhile.

Personally anything in MSM is suspect, KO, Rachel… they all want to keep getting paychecks and may compromise at times because of this.

Let’s hear your side. Debate’s good. Why do you think we should forgive?

Personally, I’m quite mad because, in my opinion, he has betrayed journalistic principals, tried to lie to us (see his response), and, finally, even if KO himself is totally innocent (which seems unlikely), anything he says or has said or will say is now compromised; now we know how much power GE has over what he says. All in all, it looks, well, bad.

So what’s your reasoning? I’d be interested to hear it.

Tell me, Jane… was it an “an acceptable standard for journalism” as you said in your previous post (Reply #26) for Glenn Greenwald to publish a link to a terrorist propaganda video as he did and then, weak disclaimers aside, not even have the integrity to admit he was duped?

Go to the end of the piece and tell me where he says it’s propaganda:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html

He doesn’t. And it was an easy one to catch. But the vaunted Glenn Greenwald couldn’t take 30 seconds to do what any “acceptable standard for journalism,” required before basically becoming a propaganda tool for terrorists.

Just to be clear, here’s what he linked to:

http://muslimtv.magnify.net/vi…..ANS-CHILDR

And here was the truth of the matter that it took all of 30 seconds to find:

http://www.reddit.com/r/politi…..4re/a/9rj2

So, is this or is this not “an acceptable standard for journalism,” as you put it?

I look at all this parsing of Olbermann’s words by GG and you and I just have to laugh at how hypocritical you guys are. Or are you willing to admit that GG didn’t live up to acceptable journalistic standards in that instance?

Don’t get me wrong; I think Glenn plays a valuable role in exposing much of the skullduggery infecting this country. But when he actually linked to a video that was blatant propaganda meant to foment more hatred and more violence, that was too much for me.

To this day, he still hasn’t outright admitted he was wrong to post the link to that video. So excuse me if his attack on Olbermann rings a bit hollow. He can say anything he wants about Keith Olbermann, but at least Keith’s never publicized horseshit propaganda designed to kill people.

And now it’s even funnier to see you print a quote from Sirota decrying propaganda.

Glass houses y’all.

Who’s this loon?

I remember that night well, I only had 2 weeks to get back to the world!

Hate to agree, but you have a point. Still, it’s awful hard not to hate the man after the image he presented- first black President, and this is what we get? I mean, really.

Marcy Wheeler is upstairs!
Why Can’t CIA Handle the Same Level of Oversight the Military Gets?

“anything he says or has said or will say is now compromised”

you mean like when he railed against Bush and Cheney?

You hate him huh? That’s just fucking great.

You know, funny story, he has a link where he states that it’s probably not a real video. So, your point is… pointless. It’s easy to catch people like you in the act- as soon as you start in the “WAH WAH This guy is just like that guy!” bullshit, it’s pretty obvious that you’re a demagogue and not actually trying to make a point.

I’m still waiting to hear your side… are have you thrown in the towel, and admitted that you don’t have one, and just like to argue?

Citizen AngelsAwake:

You better get back under the bridge there Citizen, ya don’t have any cloths on and the sun will scortch your sorry ass…”it’s hard not to hate the man”, now THAT’s a dead give away littler troller.

Citizen AngelsAwake:

Carful when you take shots at Brother Raven there Citizen…yer in with the big boys now…since ya don’t have any self-respect left ta save maybe you ken save yerself a beatdown…and I’m tellin’ ya Raven will smile while he’s doin’ it.

May be epu’d here – but have to say to Raven and Norske – I remember those days you mentioned, too. It was damn depressing then, and it’s even more depressing now, because as bad as Nixon and his “dirty tricksters” were, today’s descendants are that much worse.
Besides, of course, we dodged the bullet (temporarily) with Nixon’s resignation, but as has been often observed, we got metastizied versions back w/ N’s henchmen, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

to Angels Awake – re “hard not to hate” Obama – that way is madness, in so many seneses. Please, take a breath. Politics does not turn 180 degrees on a dime. If you had too sky-high hopes, well, that really is on you. Possibly on our education system, too, but take a little while to study history. Then look at Obama again.
And don’t give up. If we give up, the disrupters and flat-out liars win again, and this time the stakes are higher.
Oh, and a little knowledge of FDL history might make you back off individuals here – the views of certain long-time commenters are well-known; they don’t have to keep setting them out for one person.

Glenn links to the same reddit post in the link to Glenn you posted. So yeah, I’d say he admits he’s got some inaccuracies in linking to the video.

Well done. Thank you.

Force GE to sell NBC now! They should lose their FCC broadcast license same with Fox.

Oh, hi newt! Thank you!

KO has done more for us limited yes by GE than anyone in getting us a platform. Save your anger at the MSM who just read GOP talking points. Who do you think leaked the spiking of stories?

I’ll say it again.

As as to the great debate, if ANYone doubts that the corporations who OWN the MSM, be it the networks, cable ops, or press . . . if ANYone doubts that they censor their nooze ops on a regular basis, then I got swamp land in New Mexico and a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

This KO/GE thang sure has pitted some past pals against each other . . . . not pretty to watch, but I can’t seem to look away!!!! ;-)

Is it really sweeps week for the blogs? *G*

Teddy is upstairs!
American Car Buyers Outsmart DiFi & Collins

Yeah… funny story. If he “has a link where he states that it’s probably not a real video” why is the link still there?

And the only reason he had that link is because I sent it to him after doing about 30 seconds of legwork. I found it hard to believe that no one but Glenn Greenwald was covering an Israeli airstrike that had killed people in such a horrific manner. And it turned out they didn’t. But Glenn was so stoked to stoke the fires, that he published the link without checking the actual authenticity of the video.

Tell me, Angels, if Glenn Beck or Hannity pulled that kind of garbage, would you just laugh it off?

Finally, you’re so caught up in your hero worship that you admit Greenwald knowingly has propaganda posted. Still. Or do you want to take a stab at saying it’s actually what the link purports? Do you?

Because I sent him that link.

And now I’ll expand on the same question I asked AngelsAwake: if he knowingly has “some inaccuracies in linking to the video,” why hasn’t he — in the interests of journalistic ethics — just updated the piece to clearly state the video isn’t what he says it was? Print a retraction, admit he was duped and move on. Why parse words?

Do you think Glenn doesn’t demand the same from the corporate media when they get it wrong?

As much as I respect KO and GG both, this manufactured outrage against KO holds about as much water as an authentic Obama Kenyan birth certificate.

Moreover, KO admits if he’s wrong – that time where he admitted error when relied on a misquote of Rupert Murdoch (”fact” instead of “fat”)stand out in my mind. I don’t see any reason to suspect KO in any of these backdoor dealings.

Bottom line is: If there was an order to muzzle KO, then he completely shredded it by naming O’Reilly and Murdoch as #2 and #1 Worst Person on Monday.

Eli is upstairs!
…But If You Must Shoot Somebody, Please Ditch Your “I ♥ Glenn Beck” Button First

Yes. A lot of people don’t seem to grasp the point that if there was a deal, Keith “shredded it.”

It doesn’t fit into their narrow frames of outrage.

General Electric Company

GE fined after accounting probe

The SEC punishment reflects badly on General Electric General Electric is to pay a $50m (29.5m) civil penalty after charges from the US regulator that it had been guilty of improper accounting.The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) said GE had changed … [BBC - 2 hours ago]

Greenwald has never let me down. Regarding the others, affiant sayeth not.

Sheesh, who’s surprised?

waitomo,

The part you are talking about was an update and here’s what Greenwald wrote:

I can’t and don’t vouch for its authenticity (UPDATE: there’s good reason to believe it’s not from an Israeli attack), but it’s certainly reflective of the carnage in Gaza.

And that statement included an explanatory link. He said he didn’t vouch for the accuracy of it, then he said it wasn’t accurate. So what’s the problem? He can’t delete it because that’s not how you run a blog because comments relate to the post and if parts of the post are deleted then the comments wouldn’t make sense. So, like every other blogger, he uses updates, just like he did.

But I’m glad you found his (very rare) factual error in this instance. He should have thanked you for correcting him.

Quote what Glenn said. Don’t be a tool.

Then why did he confirm Greenwald was right when he said there WAS a deal?

Hey folks quit with the outrage.what exactly did you think would happen to the News when Clinton signed the Telco act ‘96 ?And so it now occurs to you that it’s all been corporate news.Puhleeeeze!

I honor Mr. Greenwald’s insight into the coverage of GE/NewsCorp talks, and have found nothing materially factually inaccurate about it. Fox and NewsCorp have continued a strategy of threat and blackmail by Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes, and Bill O’Reilly since at least 2004. But no matter what might have been reported by others besides Mr. Greenwald, and no matter what might have been thought around this industry, there no ‘deal.’ I would never consent, and, fortunately, MSNBC and NBC News would never ask me to.

Jane, if this is the passage you’re referring to as confirmation, I don’t think Greenwald has it. If KO says he’s “found nothing materially factually inaccurate about it” that could be true to his knowledge. He’s talking about the relationship between MSNBC and Faux and he claims he has no firsthand knowledge.

That can be consistent with KO saying (in that same paragraph) there is no deal with him personally. The fact that he voluntarily adds he would “never consent”buttresses that, as well as the fact that his bosses “would never ask me to.”

I think either you or Glen should call KO on the record and ask these questions outright:

1)Were you ordered not to run true (or negative) stories regarding O’Reilly’s show and his subject matter?

2)Has MSNBC or NBC News ever spiked stories or censored any story ideas that might prove detrimental to O’Reilly’s or Faux’ programming?

3) Was it suggested to you by MSNBC or NBC News to take your vacation at the time of your pledge to stay away from O’Reilly stories on June1, and after the murder of Dr. Tiller?

4) Do you have complete editorial control over your program, and if not, who has the final say?

And since you have him there:

1) Were you aware Richard Wolffe worked for one of the largest corporate lobbies in the world, whose president and CEO was a major player in the Bush White House? Who hired him as an analyst for your show and how was he vetted (chosen)?

Jane,

I was going to respond but emerson @ 111 beat me to it. :)
I do have to add something though: had it not occurred to you and GG that KO was indicating, diplomatically, that while a meeting of sorts did take place, that the assumption that he was ordered to censor himself was flat out wrong? That he was leaving GG an out so as to allow an ideological ally to save face?

Granted this is speculation on my part, but as KO has forcefully denied that he was ordered to stop the Faux bashing nor would he agree to such a deal, and has backed it up by slamming them on Monday, I simply have no reason to distrust his word at this point.

How about we step out of the circular firing squad and leave the infighting to the GOP? ;)

Jane,

I was going to respond but emerson @ 112 beat me to it. :)
I do have to add something though: had it not occurred to you and GG that KO was indicating, diplomatically, that while a meeting of sorts did take place, that the assumption that he was ordered to censor himself was flat out wrong? That he was leaving GG an out so as to allow an ideological ally to save face?

Granted this is speculation on my part, but as KO has forcefully denied that he was ordered to stop the Faux bashing nor would he agree to such a deal, and has backed it up by slamming them on Monday, I simply have no reason to distrust his word at this point.

How about we step out of the circular firing squad and leave the infighting to the GOP? ;)

(edit:sorry for the double post. iPhone + bad reception: post fail)

Sorry I didn’t meet your high standards, Jane. But to be fair to Glenn, I provided a link to the column in question so people could read it in its entirety. I even stated the location of the offending point making it easy to locate. And really, is clicking through to a link too much to ask? It’s called journalism and sometimes all it requires is minimal effort. Just ask Judith Miller.

But I’ll play. Here’s what Glenn said:

I can’t and don’t vouch for its authenticity (UPDATE: there’s good reason to believe it’s not from an Israeli attack), but it’s certainly reflective of the carnage in Gaza.

Now let’s transpose that kind of wishy-washy talk onto Lou Dobbs, Hannity and the birther wingnuts.

“I can’t and don’t vouch for its authenticity… but this story of Barack Obama not being born in Hawaii could be true because no one has produced a birth certificate.”

Would that be sufficient under your “acceptable standard for journalism,” Jane?

As to Glenn saying “it’s certainly reflective of the carnage in Gaza,” well that’s just flat-out pathetic. I could post the same video and say it’s certainly reflective of a suicide bomber blowing up a pizza parlor or a Passover service. One could post any video of the bloody aftermath of an explosion and claim it’s reflective of carnage to manipulate opinion. And when someone does, it’s usually called propaganda.

So is propaganda now an “acceptable standard for journalism”?

I notice you show an avoidance to the particular question of the “acceptable standard for journalism,” you set up. You seem to avoid it when it doesn’t suit you. Could it be that what Glenn did was not an acceptable standard for journalism and you have no good answer?

As to calling me a “tool,” what an intelligent and sophisticated way to make your point.

Stay classy, Jane.

See my above reply to Jane. And you’re correct. I alluded to an opinion that it should have been deleted knowing full well that’s not what one does. Got a bit carried away. But that was in post 100. In 101 I corrected myself and said Glenn should have printed a retraction admitting he got it wrong.

And thanks for actually seeing that the infallible Glenn Greenwald, the guy who so seriously and studiously picks apart everyone else’s mistakes and inaccuracies, made an error himself. That’s okay, but I thought that to make such a huge one warranted a strong response. I was just giving Glenn a dose of his own medicine.

As to thanking me… yeah, right. If you can follow all the links, this is how he thanked me.

http://tiny.cc/9srP2

Well said. The use of the word “tool” was rather uncalled for, IMO.

I think once an opinion is formed around a certain emotionally charged issue (”KO is a sellout because he kowtowed to GE” “KO is being dishonest because he gave two contradictory opinions) it becomes very hard to dissuade people from it.

It’s doubly ironic that you brought up the birther issue – the very same thing occurred to me when I see comments saying “KO should just come clean” – it completely correlates to Lou Dobbs and Chuck Norris saying, “President Obama should just come clean”.

Tell you what: How about we all sit down and have a beer? ;)

I think once an opinion is formed around a certain emotionally charged issue (”KO is a sellout because he kowtowed to GE” “KO is being dishonest because he gave two contradictory opinions) it becomes very hard to dissuade people from it.

Exactly. It becomes very much birther-like.