Comments on: The Failure of Phantom Victory in Afghanistan http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 02:36:50 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Jeff Kaye http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1948069 Jeff Kaye Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:05:54 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1948069 <p>I’m afraid I must agree with you — a puppet, or a willing administrator.</p> <p>Great article, Sterling. The U.S. reminds me of Germany just before World War I. Blind expansionism and militarism dictates both policy and ideology, while the nation lags behind, happy yet clueless in victory, indifferent and restless in defeat, but mostly unaware to what precipice their leaders are driving the nation.</p> I’m afraid I must agree with you — a puppet, or a willing administrator.

Great article, Sterling. The U.S. reminds me of Germany just before World War I. Blind expansionism and militarism dictates both policy and ideology, while the nation lags behind, happy yet clueless in victory, indifferent and restless in defeat, but mostly unaware to what precipice their leaders are driving the nation.

]]> By: Fraggle http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947955 Fraggle Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:22:57 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947955 <p>The “arrogant” part of my comment is kind of self-explanatory if you don’t believe the world revolves around the USA and its actions.<br /> The “stupidity” part is the constant argument that Pakistan is in danger of becoming a failed state. You can either use a very wide definition of failed state, especially concerning control of the entire state territory, by which Pakistan is not <strong>becoming</strong> a failed state, but already is and has been sicne its foundation, as are most of the rest of the world.<br /> A more narrow defintion would imply a disintegration of the Pakistani state, for which their is in my eyes no evidence. If you can show a way by which an insurrection by Pashtun tribal forces, which even seems unable to gather widespread support among the similarly politcially and economically disenfranchised urban part of the Pashtun people, can shatter the Pakistani state, I would be happy to hear it.</p> The “arrogant” part of my comment is kind of self-explanatory if you don’t believe the world revolves around the USA and its actions.
The “stupidity” part is the constant argument that Pakistan is in danger of becoming a failed state. You can either use a very wide definition of failed state, especially concerning control of the entire state territory, by which Pakistan is not becoming a failed state, but already is and has been sicne its foundation, as are most of the rest of the world.
A more narrow defintion would imply a disintegration of the Pakistani state, for which their is in my eyes no evidence. If you can show a way by which an insurrection by Pashtun tribal forces, which even seems unable to gather widespread support among the similarly politcially and economically disenfranchised urban part of the Pashtun people, can shatter the Pakistani state, I would be happy to hear it.

]]> By: RAMA http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947882 RAMA Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:46:19 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947882 <p>I’ve got two questions:</p> <p>1. Can someone please point me to a concise explanation of what our goals in Afghanistan are supposed to be? Last I heard, we were supposed to get the Taliban out of government (sort of done) and find OBL, who seems to have moved on to Pakistan. Or somewhere.</p> <p>2. And how are we supposed to win yet another counterinsurgency war where we know nothing about the language or culture of those we’re supposed to be “fighting for” and where the local hobby is using a file, a hammer, a rusty nail, and a pile of scrap metal to manufacture AK-47s? Those guys don’t even need a Ho Chi Minh Trail; they make their own stuff themselves.</p> <p>We just aren’t very good at this nation building crap. In fact, we seem a lot better at nation destroying in our own bull in the china shop way. We all thought that “got to destroy the village to save the village” stuff was irony in Vietnam. Turns out the Village (which, is as their wont, failed to see the whole irony thing) took it to heart and turned it into national policy.</p> I’ve got two questions:

1. Can someone please point me to a concise explanation of what our goals in Afghanistan are supposed to be? Last I heard, we were supposed to get the Taliban out of government (sort of done) and find OBL, who seems to have moved on to Pakistan. Or somewhere.

2. And how are we supposed to win yet another counterinsurgency war where we know nothing about the language or culture of those we’re supposed to be “fighting for” and where the local hobby is using a file, a hammer, a rusty nail, and a pile of scrap metal to manufacture AK-47s? Those guys don’t even need a Ho Chi Minh Trail; they make their own stuff themselves.

We just aren’t very good at this nation building crap. In fact, we seem a lot better at nation destroying in our own bull in the china shop way. We all thought that “got to destroy the village to save the village” stuff was irony in Vietnam. Turns out the Village (which, is as their wont, failed to see the whole irony thing) took it to heart and turned it into national policy.

]]> By: Siun http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947857 Siun Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:25:24 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947857 <p>SanderO - your line:</p> <blockquote><p>There is nothing to win in Afghanistan. </p></blockquote> <p>says it all.</p> SanderO – your line:

There is nothing to win in Afghanistan.

says it all.

]]> By: dakine01 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947828 dakine01 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:04:16 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947828 <p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-seth-jones-in-the-graveyard-of-empires/" rel="nofollow">Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs</a> with Seth Jones’ <i>In The Graveyard of Empires: America’s War In Afghanistan</i> hosted by Joshua Foust</p> Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs with Seth Jones’ In The Graveyard of Empires: America’s War In Afghanistan hosted by Joshua Foust

]]> By: eCAHNomics http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947821 eCAHNomics Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:59:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947821 <p>Yep. It’s a corrollary in true believerhood, that whatever the believer thinks is right is obviously for the good of the country.</p> Yep. It’s a corrollary in true believerhood, that whatever the believer thinks is right is obviously for the good of the country.

]]> By: dakine01 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947819 dakine01 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:57:18 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947819 <p>Ah epiphany!</p> <p>So since the Republicans think that only they represent “real Americans” and the “real USA” then by their definitions, they are just acting solely for the country.</p> <p>The “my way or the highway” perspective in foreign policy, also fosters the Republican domestic policies.</p> Ah epiphany!

So since the Republicans think that only they represent “real Americans” and the “real USA” then by their definitions, they are just acting solely for the country.

The “my way or the highway” perspective in foreign policy, also fosters the Republican domestic policies.

]]> By: eCAHNomics http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947817 eCAHNomics Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:54:42 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947817 <p>Would you care to expand your censure?</p> Would you care to expand your censure?

]]> By: eCAHNomics http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947816 eCAHNomics Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:50:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947816 <p>Any consulting the U.S. does with other countries involves the U.S. telling them what they’re gonna do, and their extracting as much as they can from the U.S. The Obama admin couches it in more diplomatic terms than W’s “my way of the highway,” but the substance is very little different.</p> Any consulting the U.S. does with other countries involves the U.S. telling them what they’re gonna do, and their extracting as much as they can from the U.S. The Obama admin couches it in more diplomatic terms than W’s “my way of the highway,” but the substance is very little different.

]]> By: Raven http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947814 Raven Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:44:46 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/the-failure-of-phantom-victory-in-afghanistan/#comment-1947814 <p>“them” don’t give shit</p> “them” don’t give shit

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