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	<title>Comments on: Dangers of SERE Reverse-Engineering Torture Explained 53 Years Ago</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: Loo Hoo.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947965</link>
		<dc:creator>Loo Hoo.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947965</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, Jeff.  What good does the SERE program serve?  Anything at all worthwhile come out of it, or only the horrors?  Any idea of the total budget for this program?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Jeff.  What good does the SERE program serve?  Anything at all worthwhile come out of it, or only the horrors?  Any idea of the total budget for this program?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Kaye</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947759</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Kaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947759</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You caught one of the essential points I was making. Sorry I wasn’t here when the article went up this morning.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In many ways, this ostensibly scientific blogpost is really a set-up, foundational article for another, one much more contemporaneous, in which I will document how the CIA has been researching SERE training and its effects upon soldiers for over a decade now. Ostensibly conducted, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in research grants, to better understand the mechanisms of stress and PTSD, the better to formulate treatments, recent history also demonstrates such research can be used for purposes of torture.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even more, the documentary record will show that the CIA was well aware of the effects of their “enhanced interrogation techniques,” fed false information to the OLC (who may have also known it was false) to produce the infamous approvals of such “techniques.” All along, the military and the CIA was well-aware of the serious harm such torture could produce on its victims.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve written about the research &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alternet.org/rights/137156/the_torture_memos_are_not_just_sick,_they%27re_full_of_lies:_a_closer_look_at_the_bybee_memo/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;before&lt;/a&gt;, but had not tied it directly to the Pentagon and Langley. This article will be coming out soon, so please check back.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You caught one of the essential points I was making. Sorry I wasn’t here when the article went up this morning.</p>
<p>In many ways, this ostensibly scientific blogpost is really a set-up, foundational article for another, one much more contemporaneous, in which I will document how the CIA has been researching SERE training and its effects upon soldiers for over a decade now. Ostensibly conducted, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in research grants, to better understand the mechanisms of stress and PTSD, the better to formulate treatments, recent history also demonstrates such research can be used for purposes of torture.</p>
<p>Even more, the documentary record will show that the CIA was well aware of the effects of their “enhanced interrogation techniques,” fed false information to the OLC (who may have also known it was false) to produce the infamous approvals of such “techniques.” All along, the military and the CIA was well-aware of the serious harm such torture could produce on its victims.</p>
<p>I’ve written about the research <a href="http://www.alternet.org/rights/137156/the_torture_memos_are_not_just_sick,_they%27re_full_of_lies:_a_closer_look_at_the_bybee_memo/" rel="nofollow">before</a>, but had not tied it directly to the Pentagon and Langley. This article will be coming out soon, so please check back.</p>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947758</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947758</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Huh.  I went through the Army ROTC summer camp in ‘73 and missed this particular day I guess as I don’t recall something that sounds like it would have caused me some bruises.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But then, since there were days where individual cadets didn’t work witht he rest of the company/platoon, it is quite possible (thinking of the days where we pulled KP and such)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But I would wager that the enlisted who were tasked with this probably enjoyed it just for the opportunity to abuse future officers without penalty.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh.  I went through the Army ROTC summer camp in ‘73 and missed this particular day I guess as I don’t recall something that sounds like it would have caused me some bruises.</p>
<p>But then, since there were days where individual cadets didn’t work witht he rest of the company/platoon, it is quite possible (thinking of the days where we pulled KP and such)</p>
<p>But I would wager that the enlisted who were tasked with this probably enjoyed it just for the opportunity to abuse future officers without penalty.</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947754</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 19:06:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947754</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is fascinating. In 1968 I went to ROTC summer camp, and we had a junior version of this SERE stuff. I was able to escape and evade, but my colleagues were stuffed into lockers which were beaten with iron bars and put in weird stress positions, and so on. This was the job of a group of enlisted men. I wonder what happened to them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is fascinating. In 1968 I went to ROTC summer camp, and we had a junior version of this SERE stuff. I was able to escape and evade, but my colleagues were stuffed into lockers which were beaten with iron bars and put in weird stress positions, and so on. This was the job of a group of enlisted men. I wonder what happened to them.</p>
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		<title>By: markfromireland</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947732</link>
		<dc:creator>markfromireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947732</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A very good posting on a vitally urgent topic - for this and for your &lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/author/6856/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;previous writing&lt;/a&gt; together with your other work against torture my sincere thanks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very good posting on a vitally urgent topic &#8211; for this and for your <a href="http://firedoglake.com/author/6856/" rel="nofollow">previous writing</a> together with your other work against torture my sincere thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Gitcheegumee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947731</link>
		<dc:creator>Gitcheegumee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 18:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947731</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is a thread here about Leon Panetta and the CIA.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; Some of the background on the gradual decline of oversight re:CIA is on that thread.Pretty interesting stuff,and explains how they were allowed,over time, to play so fast and loose.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;fatster August 1st, 2009 at 1:16 pm 34In response to Gitcheegumee @ 27 (show text)&lt;br /&gt;
Do go here. Interesting picture accompanies the story.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a thread here about Leon Panetta and the CIA.</p>
<p> Some of the background on the gradual decline of oversight re:CIA is on that thread.Pretty interesting stuff,and explains how they were allowed,over time, to play so fast and loose.</p>
<p>fatster August 1st, 2009 at 1:16 pm 34In response to Gitcheegumee @ 27 (show text)<br />
Do go here. Interesting picture accompanies the story.</p>
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		<title>By: Gitcheegumee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947730</link>
		<dc:creator>Gitcheegumee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947730</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well,I guess I missed the last paragraph of your piece,Jeff.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Pretty much addressed my hypothesis.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well,I guess I missed the last paragraph of your piece,Jeff.</p>
<p>Pretty much addressed my hypothesis.</p>
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		<title>By: Stirling Newberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947729</link>
		<dc:creator>Stirling Newberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947729</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I haven’t read your writing before, but many thanks for bringing forward an example from the not so recent past that shows that the approaches of the last decade are dangerously misguided. It’s clear and well written, and I am looking forward to more of your work.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven’t read your writing before, but many thanks for bringing forward an example from the not so recent past that shows that the approaches of the last decade are dangerously misguided. It’s clear and well written, and I am looking forward to more of your work.</p>
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		<title>By: Gitcheegumee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947728</link>
		<dc:creator>Gitcheegumee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947728</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Has anyone considered that much of these techniques being used on prisoners are perhaps&lt;strong&gt; experiments&lt;/strong&gt; to devise future methods to be used on the general populace,to one degree or another?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone considered that much of these techniques being used on prisoners are perhaps<strong> experiments</strong> to devise future methods to be used on the general populace,to one degree or another?</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947726</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/02/ngers-of-sere-reverse-engineering-torture-pointed-out-53-years-ago/#comment-1947726</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am sure much of this went on.  But I am reminded too of this article:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012908N.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012908N.shtml&lt;/a&gt; where the case is made that the US after 9/11 had forgotten much of what it had learned about effective interrogations and that this was a major criticism of those involved in interrogations going back to WWII, that there were known, effective methods and that these did not involve torture.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sure much of this went on.  But I am reminded too of this article:  <a href="http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012908N.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012908N.shtml</a> where the case is made that the US after 9/11 had forgotten much of what it had learned about effective interrogations and that this was a major criticism of those involved in interrogations going back to WWII, that there were known, effective methods and that these did not involve torture.</p>
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