Recently, Randall Terry made a statement breathtaking for its irresponsibility. He said that if the new health insurance reform bill included coverage for abortion that "others" might resort to violence.
Let all those in government be warned: They cannot order people to pay for the murder of babies, and betray God Himself, without horrific consequences." — Randall Terry
Background: It is clear that many elements in the pro-abortion congress and White House want to force Americans to pay for the murder of the unborn in their "healthcare" program. If that happens, it is tantamount to the government putting a gun to taxpayers’ heads to pay for the brutal murder of an innocent child. This is tyranny and evil of the highest order.
"Please understand: neither I, nor any thinking person wants the convulsions that would inevitably come from such a government policy — the decision to force Americans to pay for the murder of their neighbor.
"Nevertheless, the sheer horror and frustration of such an evil policy will lead some people to absolutely refuse to pay their taxes. And I believe — if my reading of history from America and around the world is correct — that there are others who will be tempted to acts of violence.
[emphasis added]
There was something about the way he phrased that statement that immediately brought to mind Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, a/k/a "the Blind Cleric." In June 2004, Abdel-Rahman issued the a statement, via his lawyer Lynn Stewart, withdrawing his support for a cease fire between The Egyptian Islamic Group (a terrorists organization that had previously gone on a shooting spree at the ancient Temple at Luxor, killing dozens, mostly foreign tourists) and the Government of Egypt. In October of 2004, in response to Abdel-Rahman’s message, the group began a terror bombing campaign that killed 34 people and continued that campaign with more bombings in 2005, killing another 64 people.
Lynn Stewart was convicted for her role in transmitting his message. Note, Lynn Stewart didn’t pass along "warnings" about "acts of violence," Abdel-Rahman’s statement was merely that he no longer supported a cease fire–I say merely, not referring to the content, but for its lack of hyperbolic, flame fanning rhetoric.
Back in 1997, Andrew C. McCarthy, the lead prosecutor in the trial of the sheikh in regard to his plot to destroy New York City landmarks, drew this lesson from the sheikh’s case . . . . he wrote that Americans need to develop a "proper understanding of their constitutional liberties: that beliefs may be freely held or articulated [but that] does not mean that they are beyond public scrutiny or that they can immunize criminal behavior undertaken in their name."
Look, I am a big fan of the First Amendment. Heck, without it, there would be no Firedoglake; it would have been shut down during the Bush Administration for flogging the Plame story. However, even the most ardent free speech advocate knows you can’t yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. (See, Schenck v. United States. 249 US 47 (1919).)
As with all rights, your right to do as you please ends pretty much where doing so causes another person real harm. For example, your right to swing your arm ends at the point where your fist hits my nose. In the free speech arena, this is known as time, place, and manner restrictions.
Of all the kinds of free speech, "political speech" is traditionally afforded the greatest amount of constitutional protection. Terry’s is clearly political speech, it directly relates to pending legislation. And although I disagree with his position, I truly believe that Terry has the right, and as a prominent person in his movement, maybe even a duty to his cause, to make his position known.
It is the MANNER of his expression that is disturbing. It sure sounds like an incitement to violence. I mean, "warned" of "horrific consequences"; doesn’t get much more violent than that, does it?
[F]ree speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.
(Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444, 447 (1969), overruling Schenk v. US .)
If one believes that Terry’s action is directed to inciting imminent lawless action, then Brandenburg clearly prohibits this kind of expression. More significantly, common sense and simple human decency should have caused Mr. Terry to self edit. He could have made his political point very eloquently without crossing the line into incitement to violence.
He does himself and his cause great harm. If he truly believes all life is sacred, not just unborn life, then he cedes the moral superiority of his position by threatening harm to his fellow Americans. Violence against the already born is crime in every state of the Union.
It always amazes me when people who claim to love all stages of human life feel that it is acceptable to bomb a clinic or assault a pregnant woman on her way to Planned Parenthood for pre-natal care, just because of the nature of the building she is walking into. Did you know that Planned Parenthood is one of the biggest providers of pre-natal care (pdf) in the NYC area?
But I digress–we were talking about free speech. I disagree with Mr. Terry’s position on a woman’s right to choose, but I will defend to the death his right to hold it and speak openly about it. This is the essence of national dialogue. What I will not defend, and what Mr. Terry really ought to publicly retract, is any call to further violence against people who do not share his views.
That’s not public debate. That’s domestic terrorism. Just ask Sheik Abdel-Rahman. Oh, wait, you can’t, he’s in SuperMax.



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No mandates.
I don’t care what else.
Terrific post. thanks
Randall Terry is not mistakenly, or unwittingly, advocating violence. He is clearly calling for it and should be dealt with appropriately by the authorities.
Teddy,
I’m not sure I know my own mind on this,so I’m throwing it out fo r discussion, where do we draw the line?
WHen Michelle malkin says horrible things about people and then published their home addresses?
When Bill O’Reilly has his producer stalk someone in front of their home or place of business, thereby making that information available after O’Reilly has said threanting things ( just a figure os speech, nothing to see here folks, move along) about the subject of the stalking?
What about them? Do we wait until someone gets hurt and THEN see about prosecuting the person who incited them to violence?
How do we know when to intervene?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L…..ality_rate
I assume Randall Terry is moving to Cuba soon? I also assume he supports National Healthcare so moms can get the Pre Natal Care the Private Insurance companies are obviously not giving them?
I also assume the Main Stream Media will not ask terry these questions because Randall like Senator Mark Sanford is A media Get they want to interview him.
Even if it means not asking him tough questions.
Like just how is his position any different than the Taliban’s and Ossama on lots of issues?
I think in the months and years to come that he will get his wish. There are enough nut cases out there on the fringe who are looking for a reason to kill. They are not really religious. In their hearts they are killers and that’s all. If they had to smarts or the looks or whatever, they would become Ted Bundy because that’s what they are – killers.
My I suggest that Randall be held liable for any attacks on abortion clinics for the next 6 months. He is inciting to riot and worse.
so is there any difference between radical, fundamentalist, modernity denying muslims and our own radical, fundamentalist, modernity denying americans? same words, same call to violence, same motives and same denial of reality.
We bomb a lot of homes, weddings, funerals… might be a good idea for old Randall think about all the innocent children and pregnant women who are likely to be in such places.
First by saying bad things about a person on National tv thats free speech. Publishing somone’s address after you say bad things about them is an invitation thats like dropping a rapist just out of prison in front of a sorority house and telling him the babes are hot and they need a janitor Good Luck.
that’s a very good question: the supreme court has ruled, while we enjoy free speech, that does not give us the right to yell fire in a crowded theater.
the hate-filled words of those first at the pallin rallies this past summer, then from the mouths of rush limbaugh and his ilk, now from birthers and any racist that can get (very easily i will say) himself on cable tv; the calls to violence, violent overthrow of our government and hatred for the president of the united states, elected in a democratically held election by an overwhelming majority of americans.
when does “incitement to violence” and sedition come into play? as one who has lived through the assassinations of JFK, MLK, Malcolm X. Harvey Milk and Bobby, i pray for our country we do not have to endure those times again.
Fundamentalist Christian/Taliban similarities
Women should not be educated or you get Feminazis.
Private Religious Shira Charter Schools Schools should be mandatory! No money for public schools in the Stimulus! No Money for Birth Control in the Stimulus! No abortion!
This is a religious country founded by Christians Muslims we should live like it under Sharia Bible law.
Global Warming is a myth spread by liberal Jews/Zionists designed to hurt our Saudi Friends after all where would Bush and the Taliban be without Ossama and his Saudi friends money.
Its so hard to tell the Taliban position on issues from the GOP’s they are so alike.:)
Whats the difference between the Basji in Iran (secret government supported militia) and the Teabaggers ( a GOP/ Fox news supported want to be militia?) Uniforms
I thought our FBI and USAttorneys had recast themselves to be proactive in response to terror, which Terry’s statements are an incitement to. If he’s issuing a “warning” shouldn’t he be asked if he has specific information? Shouldn’t he have a FISA wiretap? Shouldn’t his contacts and known associates be surveilled as well? It seems to me that this homegrown stuff is much more likely to produce actionable events than a bunch of losers doing self-defense training and chatting about the Sears Tower. And the resources devoted thereto were enormous.
Of course, we should probably trust our federal government to be on this already.
Randall Terry will die of old age and in complete comfort, not a glove will be laid on him, ever.
How close is this to Hal Turner’s speech. He’s the radio guy who was arrested for threatening US Court of Appeals Judges:
I’m more akin to the “right vs. responsibility” ideal.
Yes, you have the right of free speech. But because you have that right you also have a responsibility to take care that your words do not incite violence or illegal conduct.
In addition, that right does not include the “right to a microphone”. In almost all cases, that is a privilege extended by a private entity.
Take the Don Imus case. He had the right, under the law, to say what he said about the Rutgers women’s basketball team. He did not have the right, however, to use radio or television to broadcast that statement. That was a privilege, and one that was taken away.
In addition to the “more speech” (which always the best answer to bad speech), we should direct our attention and having the more noxious elements lose their privilege to the microphone. It has worked before.
http://www.reclaimdemocracy.or….._rates.php
So Randall how many babies do you really think you have you saved by bombing abortion clinics? I’m sure desperate women just drove to the next clinic.
How many babies could have been saved if we had National Healthcare? Remember Randal these Moms want their babies but they are dying.
Shouldn’t you work to save the babies Moms want first?
Actually Masscio, I think Terry may have passed Turner.
There is a difference between “ought to be killed” and the WARNING that harm will come. A small difference, but a difference nonetheless.
FEdderal judges are protected by the US Marshall’s Service–and the Marxhall’s have always, in my experience, taken this duty VERY seriously.
Also Federal prosecutors have to appear before federal judges. How would you feel appearing before a judge the week after your office refused to prosecute someone who threatened that judge’s fellow judge?
However, since Terry’s threats were made agaist those on GOVERNMENT, as opposed to say doctors, there might be some impetus to actually take a look at those statemetns. I dunno.
Wouldn’t inviting tax rebellion be inviting illegal conduct?
And the “wetback” guy got taken off the air. Not fired, but reassigned. I keep hoping we’re going to wise up…
The interesting thing is that Operation Rescue, the organization that Randall Terry founded, has basically decided that espousing people like Terry and Scott Roeder, the alleged murderer of Dr. George Tiller, is not such a great idea:
http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/1346043.html
“In a phone interview Friday, Roeder said he was upset at the president of Operation Rescue, Troy Newman, who had condemned the killing and said his organization had nothing to do with Roeder.
“He said that I never was a member and I never contributed any money,” Roeder said. “Well, my gosh, I’ve got probably a thousand dollars worth of receipts, at least, from the money I’ve donated to him.”
Roeder said he wrote Newman a letter from jail.
“I told him, ‘You better get your story straight because my lawyer said it’d be good for me to show that I was supporting a pro-life organization.’ ”
Newman said Friday he didn’t believe Roeder gave money to his group.
“We have a database, but I haven’t been able to find him in the database,” he said. “If he did (donate), we have probably over the past 10 years over 50,000 people who have contributed to us.”
He said Tiller’s killing had undermined the work of those trying to stop abortion through legal means.”
Here;s a good illustration, Will Roeder say he was inspired to his act, by something said by another?
I’d love to know if Roeder has had any contacts with Randall Terry.
The religious right is the religious right; doesn’t make any difference whether they claim to be Christians, Muslims, or Jews, they’re all cut from the same cloth. The only difference between them is the language they use to threaten people with.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Cynthia Kouril and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
The dye has been cast…since 1980 there has been a well organized and well funded effort to establish the external infrastructure to create the conditions for a takeover of the governing functions of this country by the unelected security services and the military. From his unholy political alliance with the anti abortion and religious lunatic fringe through his apologia to the German SS at the Bitberg cemetary, Ronald Reagan established the legitimacy of political vigilatism and political violence. Since the shadow government of the security services had already insulated themselves from accountablity from the assination of JFK through the debacle of Iran/Contra, by the time Clinton was sworn in, the only thing left was to completely destroy the power of the elected political state to inact social and political change or even govern in support of existing law and institutions. During the entire period from 1992 through 2000, vigilante violence was not only condoned against civilians through anti aboretion terrorism but it was targeted against the government itself culminating in the Oklahoma City bombing. The 2000 election coup allowed for the consolidation of corporate control of the insitutions of government and the military and the dismantling of the institutions of political governance. The “gridlock” of politics in the 1990’s was a strategic goal that ended in the seizing up of any political problem solving from 2006 to the present.
The restoration of our political institutions and the recapture of our civil institutions from corporate control may be possible through acts of legislation and executive governance but it won’t be without violence…and the outcome of the struggle for control of the security state which is at full pitch as we speak will determine who will win…the healthcare reform battle is the last battle of our 148 year old civil war and it’s still not clear that the good guys are gunna win.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE MIDDLE GROUND JUST DISAPPEARED!!
Terry’s actually toned it down. The first time I heard of an abortion clinic shooting in the 90s, he was quoted as saying it was unfortunate but “justifiable.” Yes, that was the exact word he used. The man’s a nutjob, just like the rest of the bozos he runs with.
I think it’s a pretty close parallel. It sounds like you may have some concerns about the Turner prosecution, or am I reading that comment incorrectly? I was somewhat concerned about that prosecution myself.
One of Holder’s tough choices is whether to have the FBI warn these people. But if he does, guns sales will soar even further, and hallucinations about black helicopters and the UN will break out in wingnuttia.
I am against war and against the death penalty, and yet my tax dollars have been used for both of these horrific acts for all of my adult life. Why should abortion be special? This is a slippery slope, there are many policies that people disagree with yet pay for with tax dollars. If the anti-choice movement gets female health services removed from the health care bill then I want reimbursed for every dollar of my tax money spent on killing in wars and the death penalty.
In fact the more I think about it the more I like it. Reimbursement of all monies spent on killing would repair the damage Wall Street did to my retirement plan.