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	<title>Comments on: Fox News Slags Stimulus Bill for Being Too Republican</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/</link>
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		<title>By: Nathan Aschbacher</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938875</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Aschbacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938875</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;While I recognize two important factors here.  First, that economic recoveries tend to ride on the back of export booms (something we aren’t likely to see, strong Dollar, lack of global demand, etc).  Second, that a services-based economy isn’t a panacea, because despite analytical services being essentially limitless; there is a limit on the utility of splitting minutiae, and price flexibility has a lower-bound on time; just like manufacturing does on cost of materials.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That said, I fundamentally don’t understand how manufacturing is going to help us.  This assumes that there’s some legitimate utility gap to be filled by our excess productive capacity.  This seems false.  As we’re seeing increases in employment displacement, we’re not simultaneously experiencing slackening in supply of consumable goods and services.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What would be the benefit to simply producing more stuff that nobody buys, and is that even sustainable as a mode for the economy?  I keep getting the feeling that people are asking for re-industrialization, and I’m not convinced it makes sense.  Do we really need to put people to work expending resources manufacturing more consumables, when we’re not seeing anything resembling a shock to supply?  Perhaps we need get to a point where we understand advanced economies fundamentally don’t need all these people engaged in pointless pursuits for their own sake.  It seems like we’re trying to prop up our antiquated industrial era income/compensation regimes, because we’re not tackling more fundamental questions about the inherent competition and conflict-of-interest between our micro and macroeconomic incentives?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the same way that we eventually had to recognize the perils, and necessity to abandon, the propping up of the gold regime as multiple economies moved to industrialization.  I’m of increasing suspicion that we’re going to have to look very hard at the role and necessity of maximum-employment in advanced economies; where enterprise continues to pursue automation and mechanization of production.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In short, there just doesn’t seem to be a whole lot for people to do, and perhaps that’s exactly what we’ve been working so hard to achieve.  Is the problem unemployment, or could it be that our macroeconomic and social systems aren’t yet capable of dealing with the leisure glut left behind by our microeconomic success?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I recognize two important factors here.  First, that economic recoveries tend to ride on the back of export booms (something we aren’t likely to see, strong Dollar, lack of global demand, etc).  Second, that a services-based economy isn’t a panacea, because despite analytical services being essentially limitless; there is a limit on the utility of splitting minutiae, and price flexibility has a lower-bound on time; just like manufacturing does on cost of materials.</p>
<p>That said, I fundamentally don’t understand how manufacturing is going to help us.  This assumes that there’s some legitimate utility gap to be filled by our excess productive capacity.  This seems false.  As we’re seeing increases in employment displacement, we’re not simultaneously experiencing slackening in supply of consumable goods and services.</p>
<p>What would be the benefit to simply producing more stuff that nobody buys, and is that even sustainable as a mode for the economy?  I keep getting the feeling that people are asking for re-industrialization, and I’m not convinced it makes sense.  Do we really need to put people to work expending resources manufacturing more consumables, when we’re not seeing anything resembling a shock to supply?  Perhaps we need get to a point where we understand advanced economies fundamentally don’t need all these people engaged in pointless pursuits for their own sake.  It seems like we’re trying to prop up our antiquated industrial era income/compensation regimes, because we’re not tackling more fundamental questions about the inherent competition and conflict-of-interest between our micro and macroeconomic incentives?</p>
<p>In the same way that we eventually had to recognize the perils, and necessity to abandon, the propping up of the gold regime as multiple economies moved to industrialization.  I’m of increasing suspicion that we’re going to have to look very hard at the role and necessity of maximum-employment in advanced economies; where enterprise continues to pursue automation and mechanization of production.</p>
<p>In short, there just doesn’t seem to be a whole lot for people to do, and perhaps that’s exactly what we’ve been working so hard to achieve.  Is the problem unemployment, or could it be that our macroeconomic and social systems aren’t yet capable of dealing with the leisure glut left behind by our microeconomic success?</p>
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		<title>By: dakine01</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938757</link>
		<dc:creator>dakine01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938757</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-scott-page-the-difference/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs&lt;/a&gt; with Scott Page’s &lt;i&gt;The Difference&lt;/i&gt; hosted by Cosma Shalizi&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-scott-page-the-difference/" rel="nofollow">Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs</a> with Scott Page’s <i>The Difference</i> hosted by Cosma Shalizi</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938753</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938753</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Agreed this is a great talking point I wish our Dems on TV would use on the GOP.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed this is a great talking point I wish our Dems on TV would use on the GOP.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938752</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938752</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Consumption tax is not preferable to taxing the wealthy regular can’t afford to pay more right now the rich can pay after we we did just bail out their banks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consumption tax is not preferable to taxing the wealthy regular can’t afford to pay more right now the rich can pay after we we did just bail out their banks.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938751</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938751</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Great explanation sitting on the bottlenecks like a Slug on an artery eventually the parasite gets to big for the host to survive.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great explanation sitting on the bottlenecks like a Slug on an artery eventually the parasite gets to big for the host to survive.</p>
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		<title>By: tk1200</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938750</link>
		<dc:creator>tk1200</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938750</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;There is no more urgent need for America’s economic future than a single payer universal health system which compensates physicians for health patient outcomes and imposes substantial surcharges on individuals who smoke and who are significantly overweight.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A broad-based consumption tax can fund such a system for far less than what we now spend annually on non-results oriented health care, while also raising some hundreds of billions for higher education funding and national debt reduction.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What will get Obama and the Democrats killed is the armadillo approach to solving our economic woes. A consumption tax will leave more money in the pockets of consumers, will provide for the next generation of thinkers and doers to fuel American economic growth, and begin the serious business of paying back the trillions we owe to people and entities that would rather not see us self-sufficient again.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no more urgent need for America’s economic future than a single payer universal health system which compensates physicians for health patient outcomes and imposes substantial surcharges on individuals who smoke and who are significantly overweight.</p>
<p>A broad-based consumption tax can fund such a system for far less than what we now spend annually on non-results oriented health care, while also raising some hundreds of billions for higher education funding and national debt reduction.</p>
<p>What will get Obama and the Democrats killed is the armadillo approach to solving our economic woes. A consumption tax will leave more money in the pockets of consumers, will provide for the next generation of thinkers and doers to fuel American economic growth, and begin the serious business of paying back the trillions we owe to people and entities that would rather not see us self-sufficient again.</p>
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		<title>By: Elliott</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938748</link>
		<dc:creator>Elliott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:26:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938748</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Tax cutting your way to prosperity is like drinking your way to sobriety.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;lol&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks Stirling.  I am always smarter when the sun sets on Sundays.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Tax cutting your way to prosperity is like drinking your way to sobriety.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>lol</p>
<p>Thanks Stirling.  I am always smarter when the sun sets on Sundays.</p>
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		<title>By: Stirling Newberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938745</link>
		<dc:creator>Stirling Newberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938745</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What’s ironic here is that Fox News is somewhat right. It isn’t surprising that a bill centered around income tax reductions helps high earning states with low unemployment more than lower earning areas with high unemployment and bankruptcy. Having fought sending money to people who are in trouble, FoxNews discovers that the money didn’t go to the people who are in trouble.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tax cutting your way to prosperity is like drinking your way to sobriety.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What’s ironic here is that Fox News is somewhat right. It isn’t surprising that a bill centered around income tax reductions helps high earning states with low unemployment more than lower earning areas with high unemployment and bankruptcy. Having fought sending money to people who are in trouble, FoxNews discovers that the money didn’t go to the people who are in trouble.</p>
<p>Tax cutting your way to prosperity is like drinking your way to sobriety.</p>
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		<title>By: Stirling Newberry</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938744</link>
		<dc:creator>Stirling Newberry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938744</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Empires decline when the speculators all know what the bottlenecks are, and get to charge for getting in the way of growth. Right now, everyone knows that oil will drive the next American recovery, so speculators sit in oil. Every one knows that there will be consumer credit. Which is why credit card rates are pornographic. Even usurious doesn’t tell the story.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As for fighting in wars, note the ease the supplemental military budget went through. The military is the only stimulus Americans don’t have problems voting for.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Empires decline when the speculators all know what the bottlenecks are, and get to charge for getting in the way of growth. Right now, everyone knows that oil will drive the next American recovery, so speculators sit in oil. Every one knows that there will be consumer credit. Which is why credit card rates are pornographic. Even usurious doesn’t tell the story.</p>
<p>As for fighting in wars, note the ease the supplemental military budget went through. The military is the only stimulus Americans don’t have problems voting for.</p>
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		<title>By: ThingsComeUndone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938741</link>
		<dc:creator>ThingsComeUndone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/19/fox-news-slags-stimulus-bill-for-being-too-republican/#comment-1938741</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;If the United States wants to get back on track, the first reality that needs to be addressed is that our present sources of Credit are Japan, which is in a deep funk; China, which does not want the price of resources to rise, and can limit purchases of Treasuries; a pool of the global wealthy; and the oil states.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ending both wars would that free up enough funding?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
The road to long term recovery lies in manufacturing, which has been in a slow bleed for two generations.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;   I think every Empire’s decline begins when speculation starts to replace production. Roman Grain ships late speculators win. Spanish Silver fleet late speculators don’t get paid. American grow or die Ponzai scheme business plan does not grow fast enough we get Enron, Lehman Brothers or we get a Federal bailout Chrysler, the S @ L bailout, the Airlines after 9/11 (was that ever repaid) between 2 Bush Presidents 3? bailouts.&lt;br /&gt;
     The Bank Bailout, the Airline bailout the S @ L bailout am I missing any&lt;br /&gt;
I’m thinking we can’t afford Jeb.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If the United States wants to get back on track, the first reality that needs to be addressed is that our present sources of Credit are Japan, which is in a deep funk; China, which does not want the price of resources to rise, and can limit purchases of Treasuries; a pool of the global wealthy; and the oil states.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Ending both wars would that free up enough funding?</p>
<blockquote><p>
The road to long term recovery lies in manufacturing, which has been in a slow bleed for two generations.  </p>
</blockquote>
<p>   I think every Empire’s decline begins when speculation starts to replace production. Roman Grain ships late speculators win. Spanish Silver fleet late speculators don’t get paid. American grow or die Ponzai scheme business plan does not grow fast enough we get Enron, Lehman Brothers or we get a Federal bailout Chrysler, the S @ L bailout, the Airlines after 9/11 (was that ever repaid) between 2 Bush Presidents 3? bailouts.<br />
     The Bank Bailout, the Airline bailout the S @ L bailout am I missing any<br />
I’m thinking we can’t afford Jeb.</p>
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