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	<title>Comments on: When the Women of Afghanistan Speak, Does Howard Dean Listen?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/</link>
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		<title>By: edgery</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1938002</link>
		<dc:creator>edgery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1938002</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have held Dr. Dean in high regard for years, in part because he has been willing to speak truth to power on such critical issues as the Iraq invasion and health care reform.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In this case, however, he is wrong in a very profound way.  He has reduced himself and joins the chorus of comfortable old white guys telling women how to live and when to die.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have held Dr. Dean in high regard for years, in part because he has been willing to speak truth to power on such critical issues as the Iraq invasion and health care reform.</p>
<p>In this case, however, he is wrong in a very profound way.  He has reduced himself and joins the chorus of comfortable old white guys telling women how to live and when to die.</p>
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		<title>By: macaquerman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937990</link>
		<dc:creator>macaquerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;It would be unfortunate if the Afghan women aren’t in a better state before we leave them.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be unfortunate if the Afghan women aren’t in a better state before we leave them.</p>
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		<title>By: DrZen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937905</link>
		<dc:creator>DrZen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s unbelievable how often you have to hear “Yankee go home” before you actually do go home, but you will, and Afghan women will still be where they are now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s unbelievable how often you have to hear “Yankee go home” before you actually do go home, but you will, and Afghan women will still be where they are now.</p>
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		<title>By: libbyliberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937811</link>
		<dc:creator>libbyliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 05:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Siun, thanks for this.  Generalized talking points from US military patriarchy vs. actuality.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The Taliban, whether in Afghanistan or Pakistan, is not a direct military threat to the United States. However, U.S. military activity in both countries continues to alienate residents and encourages more men to join the Taliban. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;The stated goals of the U.S. invasion and military occupation of Afghanistan were (1) “building democracy” in Afghanistan and (2) relieving the suffering and oppression of women. Seven years later, the government is widely acknowledged to be inept and corruption is rampant. Seven years later, conditions facing Afghan women are deplorable and the human rights of all people, but especially women, are flagrantly violated. There is official apathy toward, and at times, blatant sanctioning of violence against women. NATO forces in Afghanistan have not adopted gender sensitive practices and neither U.S. nor NATO forces are implementing the standards outlined in Security Council Resolution 1325 for protecting women and ensuring their full participation in civil society and post conflict reconstruction. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wilpf.org/2009MayStatementOnAfghanistan&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.wilpf.org/2009MayStatementOnAfghanistan&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/10-14&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/10-14&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Malalai Joya says Afghanistan has become a “mafia state”!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;from the start, she has dared to object to the crude political calculus — imposed and supported by the U.S. — which grants amnesty to warlords who have been linked to well-documented war crimes and ongoing corruption.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Joya has also sought — sadly, without success — to block the restoration by the U.S.-backed Afghan government of laws restricting the legal rights of women. And she has complained, loudly and consistently, about U.S. bombing raids that are responsible for horrifying death tolls among civilians.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;For her dissents, the youngest member of the parliament has been banned from the Jirga, threatened with rape by fellow legislators, and hounded by violent groups and individuals closely tied to the ruling establishment. She must move from house to house in Kabul and requires constant protection. Even when she travels abroad, she is in danger.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[snip]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Despite six years of U.S. presence, Joya says, “In Afghanistan, religious extremism controls the society … human rights and democracy are omitted.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[snip]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Joya is withering in her criticism of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who she dismissed as “the choice of the White House” and “another puppet” who fails to seriously challenge violent warlords at home or the failed policies of foreign countries that provide military and political support to some of the worst players in the country.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[snip]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;It is true that the mess of U.S. policy in Afghanistan was stirred up by George Bush and Dick Cheney, in collaboration, it should be noted, with many Democrats who adopted the fantasy that the Afghan conflict was America’s “good war” — in contrast to the “bad war” in Iraq. The ethical and logical compromises of the Bush/Cheney era created a situation where, Joya explains, “In our country, to express your point of view is to risk violence and death.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[snip]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;There is no question that the United States has profound responsibilities to the people of Afghanistan. But those responsibilities are not met by maintaining flawed policies of empowering extreme fundamentalists, supporting corrupt warlords and inept politicians, and encouraging a circumstance where one of the most worldly members of the country’s parliament says that “there are no human rights or democracy in Afghanistan.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[snip]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;But an occupation that serves the interests of the occupiers rather than the people of Afghanistan has created what Malalai Joya refers to as &lt;strong&gt;“a mafia state.” &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siun, thanks for this.  Generalized talking points from US military patriarchy vs. actuality.  </p>
<p>Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom:</p>
<blockquote><p>The Taliban, whether in Afghanistan or Pakistan, is not a direct military threat to the United States. However, U.S. military activity in both countries continues to alienate residents and encourages more men to join the Taliban. </p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><p>The stated goals of the U.S. invasion and military occupation of Afghanistan were (1) “building democracy” in Afghanistan and (2) relieving the suffering and oppression of women. Seven years later, the government is widely acknowledged to be inept and corruption is rampant. Seven years later, conditions facing Afghan women are deplorable and the human rights of all people, but especially women, are flagrantly violated. There is official apathy toward, and at times, blatant sanctioning of violence against women. NATO forces in Afghanistan have not adopted gender sensitive practices and neither U.S. nor NATO forces are implementing the standards outlined in Security Council Resolution 1325 for protecting women and ensuring their full participation in civil society and post conflict reconstruction. </p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.wilpf.org/2009MayStatementOnAfghanistan" rel="nofollow">http://www.wilpf.org/2009MayStatementOnAfghanistan</a></p>
<p>and</p>
<p><a href="http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/10-14" rel="nofollow">http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/06/10-14</a></p>
<p>Malalai Joya says Afghanistan has become a “mafia state”!</p>
<blockquote><p>from the start, she has dared to object to the crude political calculus — imposed and supported by the U.S. — which grants amnesty to warlords who have been linked to well-documented war crimes and ongoing corruption.</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Joya has also sought — sadly, without success — to block the restoration by the U.S.-backed Afghan government of laws restricting the legal rights of women. And she has complained, loudly and consistently, about U.S. bombing raids that are responsible for horrifying death tolls among civilians.</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><p>For her dissents, the youngest member of the parliament has been banned from the Jirga, threatened with rape by fellow legislators, and hounded by violent groups and individuals closely tied to the ruling establishment. She must move from house to house in Kabul and requires constant protection. Even when she travels abroad, she is in danger.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>[snip]</p>
<blockquote><p>Despite six years of U.S. presence, Joya says, “In Afghanistan, religious extremism controls the society … human rights and democracy are omitted.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>[snip]</p>
<blockquote><p>Joya is withering in her criticism of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who she dismissed as “the choice of the White House” and “another puppet” who fails to seriously challenge violent warlords at home or the failed policies of foreign countries that provide military and political support to some of the worst players in the country.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>[snip]</p>
<blockquote><p>It is true that the mess of U.S. policy in Afghanistan was stirred up by George Bush and Dick Cheney, in collaboration, it should be noted, with many Democrats who adopted the fantasy that the Afghan conflict was America’s “good war” — in contrast to the “bad war” in Iraq. The ethical and logical compromises of the Bush/Cheney era created a situation where, Joya explains, “In our country, to express your point of view is to risk violence and death.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>[snip]</p>
<blockquote><p>There is no question that the United States has profound responsibilities to the people of Afghanistan. But those responsibilities are not met by maintaining flawed policies of empowering extreme fundamentalists, supporting corrupt warlords and inept politicians, and encouraging a circumstance where one of the most worldly members of the country’s parliament says that “there are no human rights or democracy in Afghanistan.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>[snip]</p>
<blockquote><p>But an occupation that serves the interests of the occupiers rather than the people of Afghanistan has created what Malalai Joya refers to as <strong>“a mafia state.” </strong></p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: viejolex1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937580</link>
		<dc:creator>viejolex1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 02:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937580</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A little dose of common sense: Dean is supporting the war and the continued buildup of troops. In the real world, this is being pro-war, and since it is in Afghanistan that we are waging war to get the terrorists - and good luck with that - this means that Dean is pro-this-war.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little dose of common sense: Dean is supporting the war and the continued buildup of troops. In the real world, this is being pro-war, and since it is in Afghanistan that we are waging war to get the terrorists &#8211; and good luck with that &#8211; this means that Dean is pro-this-war.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937387</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937387</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;his statements this morning re afghanistan were pro-war (i was shocked to hear them!). but i don’t think dean is pro-war in general, since he was anti the iraq war.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>his statements this morning re afghanistan were pro-war (i was shocked to hear them!). but i don’t think dean is pro-war in general, since he was anti the iraq war.</p>
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		<title>By: MrCleaveland</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937381</link>
		<dc:creator>MrCleaveland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937381</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Come on, Selise, Dean is not “PRO-war” any more than he is “PRO-abortion.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on, Selise, Dean is not “PRO-war” any more than he is “PRO-abortion.”</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937355</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937355</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;i heard the interview this morning and was furious with dean’s pro-war statements (dr. dean also completely misrepresented single payer, but that’s another story).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;thank you so much for this post, siun.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i heard the interview this morning and was furious with dean’s pro-war statements (dr. dean also completely misrepresented single payer, but that’s another story).</p>
<p>thank you so much for this post, siun.</p>
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		<title>By: garlanddegreeff</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937354</link>
		<dc:creator>garlanddegreeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;For once in my life, in 1972 and 1973, I won a lottery and DID NOT have to go to Vietnam–the quagmire to end all quagmires. Now we have yet another only about 40 years later. Just as we have the Great Depression II only 75 years later. See Jared Diamond’s “Collapse” for collective memory loss destroying civilizations. (I’m one of the 600,000 laid off each month since December. I’m out of work nearly six months now and going incrementally crazier each day, with a wife and a 9-year-old to shelter and feed and keep healthy. It IS Great Depression II!!). The trouble is that our economy needs war to keep its head above water and humans need their lusts, which include blood and sex lusts (see Chris Hedges’ work on Bosnia-Serbia) and power lust. At 54, I would join the Army or Marines so I would be EMPLOYED–that’s where the money is. But no one wins wars except when an Adolf Hitler is involved, and I see no clear enemy here. &lt;a href=&quot;http://crush.typepad.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://crush.typepad.com&lt;/a&gt; (emasculation-blues)&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://apocalypse-blues.typepad.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://apocalypse-blues.typepad.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For once in my life, in 1972 and 1973, I won a lottery and DID NOT have to go to Vietnam–the quagmire to end all quagmires. Now we have yet another only about 40 years later. Just as we have the Great Depression II only 75 years later. See Jared Diamond’s “Collapse” for collective memory loss destroying civilizations. (I’m one of the 600,000 laid off each month since December. I’m out of work nearly six months now and going incrementally crazier each day, with a wife and a 9-year-old to shelter and feed and keep healthy. It IS Great Depression II!!). The trouble is that our economy needs war to keep its head above water and humans need their lusts, which include blood and sex lusts (see Chris Hedges’ work on Bosnia-Serbia) and power lust. At 54, I would join the Army or Marines so I would be EMPLOYED–that’s where the money is. But no one wins wars except when an Adolf Hitler is involved, and I see no clear enemy here. <a href="http://crush.typepad.com" rel="nofollow">http://crush.typepad.com</a> (emasculation-blues)<br /><a href="http://apocalypse-blues.typepad.com/" rel="nofollow">http://apocalypse-blues.typepad.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937334</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/17/when-the-women-of-afghanistan-speak-does-howard-dean-listen/#comment-1937334</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I can only assume that by “protecting civilians” McChrystal means “killing them.”  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“If they’re dead, they’re terrorists.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can only assume that by “protecting civilians” McChrystal means “killing them.”  </p>
<p>“If they’re dead, they’re terrorists.”</p>
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