Is this Thomas Szasz? He’s Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry, and has worked diligently for Scientology in favor of fewer civil rights. In 1996, he signed on to a mailer that attacked community mental health programs; Margaret Sanger, and psychiatric practices (passim) as irretrievably racist. Its cover shows a black man in chains, and an sidebar inside the magazine exhorts: ‘A castrated ox will pull its plow,’ as it urges black people to resist both psychiatry and education as tools of the master class.

And furthermore, you can decline to fix your kid’s car. If you decline to fix your kid’s body, you will go to jail and the government will do it for you. Additionally, you can sell your car and buy a new one if you choose. You can’t do that with yourself, your spouse, or your kids.

I know that some men over-identify with their cars, but that’s a ridiculous argument.

Thomas Szasz disproves his own major thesis.

He is now living proof that mental illness does exist. Or is it just self-interest?

Mymy, one in the same.

About par for WSJ economic analysis. The first thing you need to do in an economic analysis is define the units on the quantity access. They are well defined for car repairs, not well defined for caring services. It is about as simple (and complex when you get into it deeply) as that. As I tell my kids in Econ 101, don’t do this at home without your parents being present.

If you decline to fix your kid’s body, you will go to jail and the government will do it for you.

Right, Beth. That’s exactly the kind of big gubmint control over our lives that limit our freedom and make Thoreau weep.

I wasn’t aware of Szasz’s association with Scientologists, but he’s not miles away from Peter Breggin anent institutional psychiatry.

I can choose not to have a car. I cannot choose not to have a body. Just another right-wing perversion of reality and, because they know they can create a pseudo-reality by repeating it enough, I’m sure we’ll be hearing more of this one (it dovetails with recent remarks about food not being a human right).

JHFC. A Scientologist! I live south of Clearwater, their headquarters. Not viewed very favourably here. I’m surprised they haven’t tried to take over The Family on C Street. Gospel of Prosperity and all that shit.

Thankfully, their opinions are in the minority report.
http://www.szasz.com/szaszcruise.gif

We must keep it that way.

Well, you can choose to decide not to have a body, if you decide that it’s not just worth the expense.

This is known as “suicide.”

Can’t wait for the Ruturd Murdoch-owned WSJ to print an op-ed from Charles Manson next. About the level of intellect we’re dealing with here.

It’s beyond specious, as analogies and arguments go.

If you’re short on money and your car breaks down, it remains an option (however inconvenient) not to get it repaired or to delay repairs.

If you’re short on money and your body breaks down… you die.

Ah, the Republican way. It’s no wonder they hate terms like ‘empathy’ and ‘common welfare’.

Views psychiatry as civil rights abuse? I’d like to see how he’d treat a chronic paranoid schizophrenic in an acute psychotic episode.

On second thought, I’d not like to see him treat anybody.

But the government (most of them in the US, anyway) outlaws suicide.

And don’t most state governments have a lot of mandates about car ownership, e.g., auto insurance?

The government(s) have a lot of involvement in our bodies & health proving, once again, that consistency in Republican logic is MIA.

as one wingnut aide told me:

everyone wants a mercedes, but you cant have that either.

I’d like to see the cost/benefit analysis for clearing thetans.

Ok, at first I thought scientology were misguided, now I think they are downright mean!

One hopes that even scientologists would have a problem with people committing suicide due to lack of access to health care. On the other hand, it is an elegant solution, not unlike eating babies.

There aren’t very many poor Scientologists. If they can afford to go to all those seminars they can afford the best health insurance.

We are responsible for our health more Free Market Philosophy from the WSJ. That is until something bad happens so bad that we will scream for government health.
Like a plague probably something airborne, contagious, and immune to all the antibiotics we now have.
I’m betting its e Coli from the meat industry we have to stop giving antibiotics to animals because we are creating super germs in the meat we eat.
Or TB spreads by coughing and several strains are already immune to antibiotics.
The rich can afford to eat meat the GOP doesn’t have to many Vegans. The rich also have servants who clean their home, cut their lawn, take care of their kids.
Servants who I bet don’t have healthcare. Servants to poor to take a sick day off from work.
Does the WSJ only think short term with their wallet. Probably explains why Rupert bought them lousy investing philosophy.

I’m not worried about the scientologists. I presume, though, that even THEY will stick at expecting those who lack health care to off themselves. Or not.

Read this, The Truth Rundown.

For that matter, why should the government enforce contracts and/or protect property, given that they don’t fix cars?

My how time flies when yer havin’ fun.

Back to the cesspool.

Namaste

If you can’t afford the seminars you become a indebted to sea.org . That is how rich scientologists get all their nannies, and maids.

First the Fundies then the Moonies, then Mormons and Catholics jump on gay marriage now the Church of Scientology? All the cults are marshaling their dwindling numbers in an attempt to dwindle quicker?
Pan is Dead

Whoa, link didn’t take. WTF? Oh, well, here ’tis.

Thomas Szasz is beneath contempt.

His forty year old theory that severe mental illness is merely an intellectual construct (rather than a reflection of biological disease states) has been demolished by decades of increasingly specific genetic analysis, as well as by almost two decades of functional neuroimaging that refute his initial hypothesis.

Real scientists accept new data which demonstrates their intial
hypothesis was invalid by either disproving the data or revising their
hypothesis. Szasz does neither.

He is an intellectual fraud. Totally appropriate for the WSJ
editorial page.

Good point. Comparing our lives to cars should go over real well with the 70% who want health insurance. Since most young actors are poor, and the numbers are probably in excess of 90% this should reduce the numbers interested in Scientology quite a bit.

Shrill.

moi? *g*

google sciencetology and Aleister Crowley

http://www.google.com/search?h…..38;spell=1

All kinds of weird links Aleister was an English Black Magic guy mentioned in an an Ozzy Osbourne song.

Sorry, forgot the snark button.

comparing our health with our car’s health is materialism defined.

also the underlying root cause of that materialism is capitalism

americans love their capitalism in fact capitalism and patroitism are one and the same

“Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty which are embodied in one maxim: the fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate” Bertrand Russell.

americans love their capitalism now we all pay the price.

few will understand my words even on a progressive blog, very few that is the power of paradigms

A Scientologist pss-y-o-trist? Really? Has he met Tom Cruise? Did he get his MD from Sears Roebuck or Monkey Ward?

The car-repair/health-care analogy is one that I’m sure GM would be fascinated to hear give that the premiums they paid contributed heavily to their current financial status. Well, that and the fact that they just couldn’t seem to stop building gas-guzzlers because conservation is a convenient virtue. Or as Darth Cheney once said:

“Conservation may be a sign of personal virtue but it is not a sufficient basis for a sound, comprehensive energy policy.” –April 30, 2001

Maybe Cheney and Szasz need to have a little “me time” together… we can postulate on who’s more evil and nuttier.

(Sotomayor LiveBlog VI)
edit: fixed

They are looking for evidence in the genes and have found some correlations of 6% or so, but haven’t found a strong one yet. They have found some compelling evidence that depressives tend to come from abusive or impoverished environments.

He is an intellectual fraud. Totally appropriate for the WSJ
editorial page.

Home to many, many frauds from John Fund to “Mary Rosh” to this guy… jeebus the wingnuts are just getting more Palinier every day.

Ah, it’s so refreshing to hear that the WSJ is towing the line of Murdoch Inc., the owner of Faux Noise. According to this stupid line, the government should also stop paving roads or fixing potholes. According to the WSJ, the only thing that the government should be doing is killing Afghanis and Iraqis.

That and Tom Cruize talking about the real history of Psychiatry. Ar another Opera interview where he jumps around unmedicated? Unmedicated is only a guess but something was weird.

I just got my car an oil change. Getting my teeth cleaned on Monday. See? They’re the same!

Can I sell my old body as an antique like my old car?

Thomas Zzzzzyyzztop drives a Pinto I bet.

Did your car insurance company pay for the preventative maintenance of getting your oil changed? Cuz that would make it equivalent in my mind…LOL!!!

I think you’re free to sell your body in Nevada.

One hopes that even scientologists would have a problem with people committing suicide due to lack

For Catholics its a sin to commit suicide so if you don’t have healthcare and voting for National healthcare would help you live longer well you have no choice.
I wonder how the Protestants weigh in on this one getting in bed with L Ron Hubbarb must not be sitting right with the Sarah Palin voters.

What on earth is that link that keeps coming up? I can’t get to the live blog.

Lets ask the heads of the GOP and the WSJ if they would trade their Private Healthcare for Dr. Szasz’s Scientology healthcare.
If not then why do they print this garbage?

Live blog is at Christy’s if links aren’t working.

As the cost of repair goes up some manufacturers advertise “free maintenance for ever.” If you have ever seen a routine maintenance/repair bill for a BMW or Mercedes you could understand why owning one of these is not for the faint of heart. But isn’t that really what extended warrantees are all about.

Come to think about it the most expensive cars have the best maintenance programs. So if you are in bad shape or drive a junker, the Wall Street Journal thinks you are expendable.

the Wall Street Journal Republican Party thinks you are expendable.

(corrected for accuracy)

well, ironically there is a point of comparison – car insurance is mandatory, which makes sense because the govt built the roads you drive on . . .

and now Obama’s new health care “reform” will make health insurance mandatory, so the companies can gorge on profits from the young and healthy, and still do their sneaky recissions and dump the costly sick customers onto some government plan . . . there’s a win win for them!

Oh my goodness I’m so sorry
LiveBlog IV

As I understand it, Scientologists believe in reincarnation: that your mind is really a collection of dazed space aliens and your body is effectively a “meat puppet”, so you can change your body by dying. They also believe (at a high enough level) that all illnesses, mental and physical, are caused by sleeping clusters of irritable space aliens around your body having a bad night.

They believe then that not only can “auditing” (question and answer sessions with a crude lie-detector) resolve mental health issues by making the space aliens happy, it can cure diseases too.

Or not. I could be mistaken.

Glad you were here to demolish Szasz, Dr. Kirk.

I was beginning to think I was the only one here old enough to remember this nut’s brief fling with fashionability from the late sixties.
In fact, I thought he was dead. Did not know he was now (then, too?) connected with Scientology. Of course, in the ’70’s I never would have guessed that the crazies selling “Dianetics” pamphlets on the street would become sorta respectable, either.

Just like the WSJ and the RW in general to dig up another long-past-his-time nutjob to peddle his theories.

That, of course, is because rationally, they’ve got nothin’.

I happen to think poor people who live in areas where it is difficult to function without a car should get help on car repair. I ain’t a republican turd though, and I don’t believe the unfettered free market maximizes freedom accept for the rich. I also don’t see this imposition as any more tragic than public roads, and bathrooms.

The mitey Elron Hubbub gave Scientology a term for such people: “Potential Trouble Source type III”, or PTS3. And a treatment, which was basically solitary confinement.

A Scientologist named Lisa McPherson died while under Scientology’s care in Clearwater in 1995: see the caretaker note for November 22 – “I went into the room + she was totally Type III. Blabbering, incoherent non stop. Shaking, no warm clothes on — a bra top + shorts + shoes — no socks. She fell asleep for 4 hours + got up. I finally chased her around the place 50 times + got on slacks + tee shirt, jacket, socks + shoes. She was like an ice cube.” Hers is a tragic story, and illustrates one aspect of the horrific alternative Scientology proposes to psychiatry.

Memo to the WSJ: The government doesn’t bail out individuals facing bankruptcy, so why should it bail out big Wall Street banks and insurance companies (with your approval)? Answer: the government steps in when the damage to the common welfare will be overwhelming otherwise. If the WSJ had its way, social security and medicare would be dismantled under the same social Darwinism mindset.

I live just south of St Pete. I remember the McPherson case very well. Have had more than 1 run-in with the Scientologists.

I think bodies are only for rent there…heh!

Szasz’s initial assault on institutional mental health took place in a very different climate. I’m not defending him here, but The Myth of Mental Illness ought to be seen in the context of institutional psychiatry in the 1960s and the reactions against it, e.g. Laing’s Kingsley Hall project.

That was then, this is now. Psychiatry and mental health practice have changed. And now, Szasz is just a libertarian fuckwit.

Szasz’s opinions have some value in confronting the failure of 12 step programs to recognize that controlled drinking is an option for some recovering alcoholics. Abstinence is not the only solution to problem drinking and he’s one of the few MDs to acknowledge this.

Actually, I’m surprised Szasz was published in WSJ. Psychiatry is big business. You could never accuse Szasz of being a dispensary doctor.

Actually, psychiatry has gotten far worse along the lines alluded to, particularly, the institutionalization of mental health cases.

Leave it to the WSJ to conflate apples and guavas to muddy the public policy waters. The government takes a significant stake in public transportation, without which businesses, goods and people don’t run. Who does it think paid for the lion’s share of interstate roads, bridges, rail, airports and ports?

The government mandates minimal standards for safe vehicles, for mileage standards, and for their safe production and distribution. It regulates interstate commerce and freight charges.

Narrowing the issue to personal transportation vehicles of choice doesn’t much help their argument. How you get to work, be it moped, ten-year old Taurus or armored limo, doesn’t affect public health. It has no impact on schools, hospitals, public and private offices, the avoidance of pandemics or the maintenance of competitive levels of productivity by having healthier, safer, more secure family lives.

The WSJ doesn’t much care what the government spends taxpayers’ money on, so long as it goes to the Right people, exactly the right people, and no one else – and that it get nothing back in exchange for it.

It’s OpEd pieces like this – on a page that David Brooks used to edit – that should inform his readers where he really comes from. Public intellectual, objective, principled conservative my ass.

Shorter Szasz: “we Scientologists are wealthy and we don’t like to share with anyone but our church. And we intend to use our wingnut connections to use any lame arguments we can because poor and sick people whose resources have run out can pound sand.”

Thomas Szasz? Is he back from the dead? He was already ancient back in ancient times when I got my psych degree. He actually made some points worth debating back then, but he carried it to a ludicrous extreme.

I don’t imagine anyone on the WSJ editorial staff has any trouble getting health care – or repairs on their beemer, for that matter. As for the analogy, government doesn’t repair our cars but it does provide some public transportation, since they are the only ones who can do it. A lot of it is crap, though, so we need a lot more of it, not less, and a lot better. I can replace a car or do without one, but we need SOME transportation. Not so with my body. And I’m not going to be suddenly hit with a $20,000.00 car repair, which will kill me if I don’t get it fixed. I do, however, require basic car insurance, which is another reform story. And I do want health care, not symptom swatting.

I don’t want a Mercedes. Republicans love straw men…just love ‘em to death.

WSJ editorial:

Our health-care system rests on the principle that, although we own our bodies, the community or state ought to be responsible for paying the cost of repairing them. This is for the ostensibly noble purpose of redistributing the potentially ruinous expense of the medical care of unfortunate individuals.

I don’t think of ‘owning my body’. It IS me, not a suit of clothes or a Mercedes I can do without.

The system also does NOT “rest on the principle” that “the community or state ought to be responsible for paying the cost of repairing them”. The system rests on the principle that pain and suffering from illness and accident is bad and should be alleviated.

But, the U.S. Constitution says the government is in part to “Provide for the General Welfare” of the People. One way of doing that is to enable doctors and hospitals to do what they do and another is to enable corporations, in particular insurance companies, to help people pay for their care and another, we are now seeing, is to provide insurance plans at prices people can afford when the private sector does not.

We, as a people, choose, in general, to “Provide” by enabling one another to provide products and services for one another. In some instances, such as national defense, the government acts directly. In this healthcare reform we are continuing to enable private caregivers, insurers and employers to help people, while directly helping those who can’t help themselves. Even there the public option is only enabling and not financial assistance. It’s just the expansion of Medicaid which directly helps the poor. We endeavor to keep the ’safety net’ part of government programs small.

It sounds to me like the WSJ needs a better class of editorialist.

We can either have Universal Health care or we can demand that everyone gets a living wage in which health care costs are easily covered. The Have-mores want cheap cheap labor and they’ve worked hard to keep wages low. Well compartmentalize peoples’ needs and make them available through various programs or make it a law that if you want a human being in your store, plant, or office that means you pay for it. A human being needs upkeep and needs to trade their time for a way to live in safety with health care. You don’t want to pay for health care, demand much higher wages so people don’t have to suffer and die without health care. Simple. Even slave owners took care of their slaves’ health to protect their investment.

“Together with the Church of Scientology […]”

Epic fail.