Wingnut fringe radio host Alex Jones got a little bit more fame late last month when appropriately named celebrity dolts, the Pratts–aka Speidi, Spencer and Heidi from the reality show The Hills–came out in favor of Jones’ New World Order/One World Government panic and assorted conspiratorial other fears seen on the far edges of the flat earth where the Right and Left meet in fear of loosing control.
Alex Jones is a central figure in ViceTV’s 2nd Revolutionary War, one whose rants about how the Democrats and Republicans are just the same party and puppets with strings pulled by one man–or really a group of Eeeevil Elites. And then there’s Sgt Charles Dryer aka YouTube user July4Patriot, and a member of the Oath Keepers.
a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, peace officers, and veterans who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic … and meant it.
Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and that oath will be kept. We won’t “just follow orders."
And then there’s the voice of reason, author Chris Hedges who believes that the Christian fundamentalist movement emerging in the United States constitutes a gathering threat to American democracy.
He has a point because the rhetoric and actions of some fundamentalist militias will lead to the very crackdown they both fear and welcome. These men and women are armed and ready to protect America against totalitarianism, a noble goal, but their very actions raise suspicions and doubt. Militias have gotten a really bad reputation because of oh say Posse Comitatus, Timothy McVeigh, the Order…
In 2nd Revolutionary War, the Oath Keepers, Alex Jones and others rail against the Bush Administration’s report on domestic terrorism, classing it as an attack by Obama on them and their desire for an America as they envision it, especially one without immigrants or participation in NAFTA or the United Nations. Dryer and his fellow militiamen play paint ball and decry their being searched at airport security checkpoints while readying themselves for an uprising.
I have my doubts if the Oath Keepers and their ilk have my best interests at heart as there are many, many within the militia movement who are uber-conservative, hard line right wingers. I don’t think you’ll find a lot of academics, urban pagans, Muslims, Hindu or Buddhists in the average militia, not because they don’t believe in America and her values, but because they aren’t invited and maybe have other ways of dealing with the political process outside of buying guns and ammo.
The Oath Keepers claim, like Tea Parties to be nonpartisan, yet their agenda is ultra-conservative and with that comes a lot of fundamentalist Christian dogma and a subtext of returning to Constitution as written by our forefathers (like before slavery was outlawed and women could vote).
2nd Revolutionary War shows the disaffected, angry Americans, those who feel powerless because of policies enacted over the past decade, which are now having disastrous repercussions. But buying guns and worrying about FEMA camps may not be the best way to handle that anger.
Oh and P.S.: The "real" Illuminati aren’t out in enslave mankind but to bring us, their fellows, knowlege and to show everyone how they can better master themselves and their lives.
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Welcome to Movie Night. If you’re new here, please hit your browser’s refresh every minute or two to update the comments. If you’d like to reply to a specific comment, hit the “reply” button under that comment.
Comments should stay on topic, which is in this case is the awesome eye opening documentary from Vice TV, 2nd Revolutionary War, militia groups, Alex Jones, totalitarianism, the Bush-ordered report from DHS on rightwing homegrown terror groups, the New World Order, Bohemian Grove, Oath Keepers, the Illuminati and/or lack thereof, fear of FEMA camps, and that weird place where the extreme Right and Left have the same vision of an America where all dissenting voices are silenced by force.
Cross talk should stay on topic too, please, and let’s try to keep our profanity to minimum…thanks!
That being said (whew!), a warm FDL welcome to Kate Albright-Hanna, who masterminded this documentary! Hi Kate!
hi there!
Hi Kate, Welcome to the Lake.
Glad to be here…
I just watched the video…wow! scary stuff!!
Yeah, the interesting thing about making the documentary is that everyone I met was supernice. I worked on the Obama campaign before I joined VBS, so I wasn’t sure what to expect out there…
Kate, how did you pick this topic to start the series?
Kate,
well, that’s cool…it was quite interesting. after I watched it, I did some searches on google…Alex Jones, etc…
I spent the past two years interviewing people about hope and change, and I was really curious about people who weren’t feeling hopeful… and why.
I didn’t finish the video. I’m not sure if James Risen is presented as a counterpoint or just as someone on the continuum of those feeling history is on the march, which is one way to put it.
In general I am in the Risen camp and find the political crisis lies in the nature of corporations. The reactionary populist right has an abiding distrust of corporations, Wall Street and banks. However their racism is always a bit stronger.
That is intriguing…my partner and I are doing tons of research for an upcoming book and this stuff is just freaky
Kate have you read Robert Anton Wilson (RIP) a humorist who tool conspiracy theories and ran with them? He wrote he Illuminatus Trilogy and a collection of essays–Cosmic Trigger, 1, 2 and 3
Yeah, what really interested me is that Alex Jones and the group he’s been promoting, The Oath Keepers, claim that they’re not interested in being defined as being Left or Right. There seems to be this new movement that is trying to define itself… and they’re mad at both sides.
There’s a weird place qhere the far right and far let meet–weird to think that David Icke who appears at health fairs and New Agey things is of the same mind as arch conservative Alex Jones…
That is exactly what I took from it…they don’t like Obama, but they’re not happy with the right either…or I might be way off.
Is Risen presented as a counterpoint or as part of the continuum?
Exactly… That’s why I thought it would be interesting to have Chris Hedges, who describes himself as a socialist, to be both a counterpoint, but also a sympathetic voice, to the idea that our civilization is crumbling and violent revolution is imminent. The right and the left also meet at the end of the doc…
Kate do you think this dissatisfaction opens the door for might rightwng thinking or or more Left…and what do folks know about the Oath Keepers?
He isn’t… tell me about him.
Oops, my bad, Hedges not Risen.
We need more synthesizers like him but it is almost impossible.
I recently finished reading Chris Hedges’ book- American Fascists-the Christian Right and the War on America…it was really good.
I think both Right and Left have a real opportunity to grasp — or a real danger to confront — with this group. They’re economically insecure, they sense something has gone really wrong with the country in terms of civil liberties, and they’re not sure where to direct their anger. Thus, the all-encompassing New World Order scapegoat.
You don’t have to be a wingnut to be mad at both sides. Who isn’t !
Hope to see this soon.
I’m actually currently reading Leviathan, the third book in The Illuminatus! Trilogy. How do you see that as relating to this?
I’m curious to know if the people you talked to understand exactly how the corporate elites manage things for their own benefit, because their solutions sound totally unrelated to the problems they are talking about.
The Oath Keepers are active duty military, veterans and police officers who are pledging to each other that if the government asks them to betray the Constitution (like knock down doors and take away people’s guns — their favorite example), they’ll refuse to do so.
Is this a void for the Constitutin Party to fill for the Right?Is this palin’s entre? The Constitution party are scaryyyyyy..and so frankly are all the God and Gun types–manly because it seems they want to shove THEIR version of God down out throats, along with being really happy to do something stooopd to set off the very thing they fear…
The armies oath I always understood is Duty, Honor, Country. What oath are they referring to.
There is definitely a lot that has gone wrong in this country…the thing that frightens me is that there is a group out there who are so extreme, religious, fundamentalist…
The people I spent the most time with were U.S. Marines, and they readily admitted that they didn’t quite understand what was going on, that they were in the process of “waking up,” as they put it. I also talked to people at a Tea Party in Texas, and most of the rhetoric there was aimed against “socialists,” so there wasn’t a lot of railing against corporate elites. I think everyone is confused and feels like something has gone wrong, but can’t explain what or why.
The OathKeepers–some are current military, like Sgt Dryer in 2nd Rev War…and he got into –and out of–some trouble recently, per your coda at the end.
Wouldnt there be some problems with Oath Keeping, kinds subkect to interpretation at times, and werent guys who fragged their CO in Viet Nam thiking along those same lines..that sometimes you have to act against orders for the greater good..? I mena I’m happy to not have military take away my guns, but then again I wouldnt want to get conscripted either…
Did these Marines still support the Iran and Afgan missions?
Part of a peace officer or soldiers oath is “protect against all enemies foreign and domestic” and a govt that would take away are guns in a domestic enemy in their logic
oops again. The Iraq and Afgan missions
You are so on the right track…Palin is a huge part of this, she is like the leader of the pack, so to speak. And it’s exactly what “they” do…shove their beliefs down the throats of the poor, unhappy, lonely and distraught people.
Read all his Cosmic Triggers..but really RAW tapped inot the conspiracy insanity made fun of it, and yes there IS a real “Illuminati,” but it’s not what you think–we can discuss off of here.
Did you get any sense that some of them are using this stuff as a cover to hide their dislike of Obama so they won’t be branded as racists, even though that’s the real reason?
A lot of the women who spoke at the Tea Party I attended in Burleson, Texas were definitely channeling Palin… even making their own versions of her pit bull/lipstick joke. I think there’s a big opening right now for anyone who takes a populist approach in politics right now. People are yearning for authenticity and afraid of faceless global elites… So Palin and Glenn Beck and Rush understand their culture, or know how to manipulate a lot of scared, angry people…
Palin, Rush, Glenn Beck, etc…they are total manipulators and scary…it saddens me to see those who are taken in by them.
There is a real dislike of immigrants and the UN, and after the booklet the Pope gve obama abot the need for global financial awareness– Catholics!
Reagan was really good at this. He gave very simple answers to complex problems and solved nothing – in fact made things worse – but the wingers thought he was not trying to talk “above” them so they loved him. Pity.
can anyone tell us more about the Oath Keepers? That is a new term for me and I’m curious to learn more.
I was really struck when Sgt. Dyer said there was a moment in Iraq, after he had lost a fellow Marine, and there were Iraqi bodies all around… And he realized the Iraqi soldiers were just like him. And that if he were in their shoes, he would do the same thing — defend his country from foreign invaders. Chris Hedges said that a lot of soldiers have these “existential crisises” when they lose a sense of what they thought they were fighting for, and become disoriented and angry. I think a lot of soldiers are coming back from these wars and they can’t completely express this experience, and they’re channeling this anger and confusion in different ways…
how did you find people to interview? were people wanting to be filmed?
Yes, it is a pity. Great point! thanks.
you betcha
And kate, what’s your take on Speidi, the tragic pseudo-Christian Pratts hopping on the Alex Jones crazy train? and trying to recruit Miley Cyrus?
For this documentary, I focused mostly on the Patriot/Constitution/militia movement people, as opposed to the religious movement people. Honestly, I didn’t hear a lot of ranting about Obama when the cameras were off. In fact, Stuart Rhodes, the head of Oath Keepers, said he thinks they should have made a lot more noise during the Bush Administration. I think that within the movement, there’s a definite strain of nativism/protecting the homeland kind of rhetoric, which is anti-immigrant. But I can’t say I heard anything that was blatantly racist aimed at Obama… which isn’t to say I don’t think there’s a huge amount of racist sentiment against Obama in the country. It’s just that I didn’t hear a lot of it from this particular group.
Interesting, thanks!
The Constitution party wants to return to the original Constitution, and to return America to the biblical foundation (they feel) it was founded on..oddly many founding fathers were Masons…
I watched their YouTube videos and went to their rallies and networked in their circles. As Brian Levin at the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism told me, it’s actually a good sign when people are meeting up in public and going to rallies — that means they still have hope for democracy. The danger is when they give up all hope, shut down communication, and start plotting how to destroy the whole system… Then you get the scary lone wolf terrorists.
Hannah Montana RULES the New World Order… Everybody knows that.
Did you get any inkling that the Oath Keeper guys were making any money on this. How is the main one you focus on, sorry forget the name, making a living. I understood he was no longer active in the Marines.
Kate, how much time did you spend with Alex Jones? What was he like?
And yes, where people meet in groups there is dialog and that helps…Though the conspiracists would say “helps NSA count our numbers!” ;)
LOL
Interestingly, they often use Hurricane Katrina as a prelude for a nightmare to come… in terms of forcing people into “concentration camps” (not letting people leave the Superdome), taking away their guns and suspending civil liberties…
So that’s the real meaning of “You get the best of both worlds…” It all makes sense now! ;-)
I think they sell t-shirts, but no, I didn’t get the sense that there’s a lot of money to be made in the Oath Keeper biznez… It felt pretty grass-rootsy to me. The founder of it was a Ron Paul guy, a true believer in his cause…
Sgt Dryer-July4Patriot– lost his post and then was reinstated, wasnt he?
Great post. Late to the party. As usual.
The doc is awesome, S’Dragon! Jump on in!
wow! very scary stuff!
We spent a day with Alex Jones in Austin. As soon as the commercial break hit, he became a supernormal dude, on the phone with his parents asking if the hot tub was working… Kind of the opposite of his radio persona.
He was also trying to rally the Slacker-style kids in the office to focus on his next documentary, and sounded like a Texas football coach: “Get your head in the game! Focus!”
These people who subscribe to the Constitution Party (here on out know as the CP) are part of the Political Dominionist movement and THAT is a much deeper issue than what appears on the surface.
When I filmed Sgt. Dyer, he had five days left in the Marines, but is apparently still subject to the US Military Code of Conduct for another 6 months, I believe. They charged him with making disloyal statements, but then dropped the charges after he submitted a statement.
Is Jones putting on an act then? Does he not believe the things he’s saying? And, if not, does he not realize that his listeners take his words to heart, and could potentially go out and cause a lot of death and destruction?
(Would he consider himself not at all responsible, because he’s just a “normal guy” doing a “show” and it’s not to be taken seriously?)
And where in this does he not smack of a “snake oil” salesman! There are many out there that step into there limos after their “inspirational” (and I use that term lightly) and use the same tactics as Bush Jr…and that is to scare the hell out of everyone!
Which reminds me of how the evangelical extremists use fear to paralyze their followers and make them drink the Kool Aide of devotion!
Haven’t seen the film so can’t really offer much but saw Kate’s 43 and knew exactly what she was talking about. After Nam a lot of these type guys went to Africa and other spots to hire out as mercs. The money was good and they didn’t have to deal with the world. There were a lot less volunteers in the Army in those days.
If you havent had a chance ot watch 2nd Revolutionary War, you can find it here http://www.vbs.tv/watch/americ…..nar…
I get the sense that he really believes what he says. He spends a lot of time on his show defending himself against the charge that he’s pushing weak minds over the edge into acts of violence. In fact, on the day of the tea parties — April 15 — a man was tweeting that he was listening to Alex Jones and planning to kill police officers in Oklahoma. He was taken into custody before he could do anything. What are the limits of free speech? I’m not sure…
So who does Jones feel aare the people pulling the strings on the puppets?
I wonder how these OafKeepers deal with the explicit statement in the Constitution that they claim to follow that they MUST follow the the commands of the lawfully elected Federal officials that they so hate.
While they have the right to “bear arms” that does not give them the power to organize a body of armed men outside the restraints and control of Congress and the State. Furthermore States themselves have no power to issue letters of marque or declare war.
Sounds like these guys are in fact the “insurrectionaries” that the Founders feared needed to be “suppressed”. When such insurrectionary groups emerged during the early days of the Republic they were stripped of their “right to bear arms” and their leaders were often hanged or imprisoned.
Wow, that’s scary! I guess the guy actually wanted to get caught and not get away with it, if he was announcing his intentions on Twitter, though, right?
The global corporate elite? I’m not sure I can quite I can quite articulate his whole theory. It’s very… involved. Eugenics, a plan to turn us all into machines…
It’s really scary stuff!! it’s like these extremists will stop at nothing to achieve power, etc…
Right he claims those folks are the “illuminati” yet ironically the “original” Illuminati those free thinkers hwo called themselves that strove for equality for all and freedom for all…
His tweets: LINK
Kate, pups, noobs, thanks sooo much for joining us. ViceTv has heaps of awesome docs and we look forward ot presenting more of them.
kate THANK YOU for making 2nd Revolutionary war! MAKE MORE!
Thanks for hosting this, Lisa. It was very educational!
Cool, thank you and thanks for this live blog tonight all!
thank you, Lisa!! I really enjoy this each week.
Thank you! I love Firedoglake!
Thnak you all..I love doing this and your participation makes it so aweosme and rocking!
Thanks for the link — chilling!
Most of the “fragging” in Nam happened for very personal reasons that related to how the field officer acted to preserve his mens’ lives. Ordering men to do something profoundly suicidal for a useless objective when there were safer approaches was the most common cause. Toss in an officer who themselves show fear and indecision, and are self-protective or glory-hounding and you’ve got a bad chemistry.
thanks!
I…is there an elephant with the license plate 911truth in the room? It seems odd nobody mentions it. Not in the film. Not on this blog.
I’m reminded of the Bertrand Russell/IF Stone split in 1964 after the WCR. Divide and conquer. So excellent top notch bloggers have to vow not to touch it or else forever be exiled to obsolescence and obscurity?
Just saying.
It seems this viddy shows that your ceding ground to people who are rightfully outraged and confused.
damn…you’re, not your
What’s that?
http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/T…..nnedy.html
I’m a big fan of Bertrand Russell and IF Stone, so it came as kind of a wtf?
I’ve boldly gone to a place from whence I cannot return
I meant of course that these people in the film rightfully feel outraged and confused. That they are so is, I think, wrongful. I’m old enough to remember the Nam vets. Similar confusion/outrage.
That looks interesting, I’ll have to check it out.
Thanks!
The Army’s oath like all other services is:
to swear to “protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies foreign and domestic”.
This is the oath those people are talking about, from a glance I didn’t see it mentioned in this entire article.
DOH!!!
lol
Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and that oath will be kept. We won’t “just follow orders.”
Sure it is. And where were you these last eight years when the Cheney/Bush machine was stomping the Constitution into the mud?! You not only weren’t doing anything, you weren’t even complaining.
I guess Kate had signed off so I shouldn’t take it as causal that my remarked basically ended all chatter?