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	<title>Comments on: Obama Defends the Stimulus But Ignores Important Critics</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/</link>
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		<title>By: Propagandee</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934390</link>
		<dc:creator>Propagandee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934390</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Largely ignored in this whole discussion is where the vaunted increases in productivity have gone. Instead of labor getting its fair share, which would have provided for a sustainable increase in consumption power and not one based on easy credit, the increased profits have gone to the ownership class. A damn good reason to raise their taxes.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Largely ignored in this whole discussion is where the vaunted increases in productivity have gone. Instead of labor getting its fair share, which would have provided for a sustainable increase in consumption power and not one based on easy credit, the increased profits have gone to the ownership class. A damn good reason to raise their taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: iceman15</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934374</link>
		<dc:creator>iceman15</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934374</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Okay, it’s time for my 2 cents worth again. Krugman/Stiglitz/et al’s basic point is that the unprecenented transfer of wealth upwards is due to the breaking of the unions, particularly since 1981, the deregulation started under Carter, but persued with a vengence under Reagan/Bush41/Clinton, the de-industrialisation of the U.S. and the assumption of the commanding heights of the economy by the FIRE sectors, which don’t actually produce anything but merely facilitate the movement of funds. Globalisation under policies like NAFTA then further accelerated these processes.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The domestic political counterpoint to this concentration of wealth has been the concentration of power by the upper 1% - 5% of the population either individually, e.g. George Sorus, or, more typically, by control via corporate domination, think tanks, etc. This situation has again been accelerated under Bush/Cheyney by the waste of U.S. treasure in useless wars of overseas aggression and further corporate concentration, e.g. in media, energy and banking sectors despite the corporate setbacks in the wake of Enron/Worldcom/etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The results of this have been all too predictable: a hollowing out of the middle class (&amp; its increasing powlessness), the right-wing drift in the body politic necessary to hold the status quo in the face of the increasing restlessness due to the stagnation in real wages, the militarisation of society (incarceration at all time highs, police forces that resemble domestic standing armies, the constant search for people to blame - e.g. immigrants, etc). Orwell would have seen this as a drift toward fascism and the U.S. moving toward a form Latin American-style banana republicanism.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This structure explains the current dilemmas easily. The restless of the public underpins the dramatic collapse of Republican control since 2005, the 2006/08 mandate given to the Democrats to enact ‘change you can believe in’ and the struggles of the ruling elites to maintain the status quo. This gesalt unpins the resistance to regulatory reform, the sidelining of labor reforms and the unwillingness to put in place a large enough stimulus package despite its obvious demand-gap inadequacy visible to many at its time of passage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ominously, the Dems are now entering a highly dangerous ‘make or break’ moment - Health Care reform is now in play. The ineffeciencies of the status quo are visible to all. Failure at this point, would clearly show the power of the anti-democratic structures errected piece by piece since the late 70’s. If the Dems have been as captured by the ruling elites as the Repubs then the true face of this structure will be visible. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Roosevelt, in very similar circumstances in ‘33/’36, didn’t feel threatened by the discedited Repubs of the day - he slaughtered them in the ‘36 landslide which left only 16 Repub senators. His energetic reforms between 1933 &amp; 1935 blew away embedded opposition. What he feared most was the drift to fascism encapsulated by the rise of Hughey Long and Father Coughlin. The public has already abandoned the Repubs; success now will allow the Dems to set in place a new structure akin to the one that existed between 1933 and 1965. Failure would cause a similar implosion to what we have just witnessed in the Repub party.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The discussion about under -v’s unemployed is akin to the debate about angels dancing on pinheads. It is merely one minor aspect of this unprecedented transfer of wealth from the middle upwards. The big picture is what we need to focus on.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, it’s time for my 2 cents worth again. Krugman/Stiglitz/et al’s basic point is that the unprecenented transfer of wealth upwards is due to the breaking of the unions, particularly since 1981, the deregulation started under Carter, but persued with a vengence under Reagan/Bush41/Clinton, the de-industrialisation of the U.S. and the assumption of the commanding heights of the economy by the FIRE sectors, which don’t actually produce anything but merely facilitate the movement of funds. Globalisation under policies like NAFTA then further accelerated these processes.</p>
<p>The domestic political counterpoint to this concentration of wealth has been the concentration of power by the upper 1% &#8211; 5% of the population either individually, e.g. George Sorus, or, more typically, by control via corporate domination, think tanks, etc. This situation has again been accelerated under Bush/Cheyney by the waste of U.S. treasure in useless wars of overseas aggression and further corporate concentration, e.g. in media, energy and banking sectors despite the corporate setbacks in the wake of Enron/Worldcom/etc.</p>
<p>The results of this have been all too predictable: a hollowing out of the middle class (&amp; its increasing powlessness), the right-wing drift in the body politic necessary to hold the status quo in the face of the increasing restlessness due to the stagnation in real wages, the militarisation of society (incarceration at all time highs, police forces that resemble domestic standing armies, the constant search for people to blame &#8211; e.g. immigrants, etc). Orwell would have seen this as a drift toward fascism and the U.S. moving toward a form Latin American-style banana republicanism.</p>
<p>This structure explains the current dilemmas easily. The restless of the public underpins the dramatic collapse of Republican control since 2005, the 2006/08 mandate given to the Democrats to enact ‘change you can believe in’ and the struggles of the ruling elites to maintain the status quo. This gesalt unpins the resistance to regulatory reform, the sidelining of labor reforms and the unwillingness to put in place a large enough stimulus package despite its obvious demand-gap inadequacy visible to many at its time of passage.</p>
<p>Ominously, the Dems are now entering a highly dangerous ‘make or break’ moment &#8211; Health Care reform is now in play. The ineffeciencies of the status quo are visible to all. Failure at this point, would clearly show the power of the anti-democratic structures errected piece by piece since the late 70’s. If the Dems have been as captured by the ruling elites as the Repubs then the true face of this structure will be visible. </p>
<p>Roosevelt, in very similar circumstances in ‘33/’36, didn’t feel threatened by the discedited Repubs of the day &#8211; he slaughtered them in the ‘36 landslide which left only 16 Repub senators. His energetic reforms between 1933 &amp; 1935 blew away embedded opposition. What he feared most was the drift to fascism encapsulated by the rise of Hughey Long and Father Coughlin. The public has already abandoned the Repubs; success now will allow the Dems to set in place a new structure akin to the one that existed between 1933 and 1965. Failure would cause a similar implosion to what we have just witnessed in the Repub party.</p>
<p>The discussion about under -v’s unemployed is akin to the debate about angels dancing on pinheads. It is merely one minor aspect of this unprecedented transfer of wealth from the middle upwards. The big picture is what we need to focus on.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934264</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 05:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934264</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Debemus providere, non retro.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Debemus providere, non retro.</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934122</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934122</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Point taken.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point taken.</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934119</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934119</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/21/bad-distribution-of-income-led-to-great-depression-history-repeats-in-2008/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John Kenneth Galbraith&lt;/a&gt; thinks you are right.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/21/bad-distribution-of-income-led-to-great-depression-history-repeats-in-2008/" rel="nofollow">John Kenneth Galbraith</a> thinks you are right.</p>
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		<title>By: dick c</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934118</link>
		<dc:creator>dick c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934118</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ve always thought that was a big part of it. The disparity in wealth has led to too many on the bottom without much more than they need for essentials — essentials which are more and more are coming from large corporations that channel the money out of communities, instead of local businesses which keep it spread around more evenly. The large corporations, funnelling more money to fewer people, bloat this class with more than they can ever spend. This goes to Wall Street instead of circulating in our communities.  Wall Street then had to invent all sorts of new investment schemes to deal with it. We’d have been better of with higher wages for the average worker and top executives whose compensation topped out at 20 or 30 times the average wage.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think the bank bailout money could have gone to better uses. The stimulus money, as I understand it, is really just starting to be spent. Obama’s expecting some pretty positive effects from this money when it finally hits the economy. Perhaps by then credit will finally loosen up too.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s my misconception and I’m stickin to it, until …&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve always thought that was a big part of it. The disparity in wealth has led to too many on the bottom without much more than they need for essentials — essentials which are more and more are coming from large corporations that channel the money out of communities, instead of local businesses which keep it spread around more evenly. The large corporations, funnelling more money to fewer people, bloat this class with more than they can ever spend. This goes to Wall Street instead of circulating in our communities.  Wall Street then had to invent all sorts of new investment schemes to deal with it. We’d have been better of with higher wages for the average worker and top executives whose compensation topped out at 20 or 30 times the average wage.</p>
<p>I think the bank bailout money could have gone to better uses. The stimulus money, as I understand it, is really just starting to be spent. Obama’s expecting some pretty positive effects from this money when it finally hits the economy. Perhaps by then credit will finally loosen up too.</p>
<p>That’s my misconception and I’m stickin to it, until …</p>
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		<title>By: sporkovat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934117</link>
		<dc:creator>sporkovat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934117</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;as a lawyer, you must really appreciate Obama’s extensions of Bush’s legal innovations.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Glenn Greenwald has been writing on these frequently.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What is the latin for “We must look forward, not backwards?”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as a lawyer, you must really appreciate Obama’s extensions of Bush’s legal innovations.</p>
<p>Glenn Greenwald has been writing on these frequently.</p>
<p>What is the latin for “We must look forward, not backwards?”</p>
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		<title>By: openhope</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934115</link>
		<dc:creator>openhope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, you’re right.&lt;br /&gt;
But was he destined to win? Or was he placed there to suck the populist will out of the people?&lt;br /&gt;
 I think we have to salvage what we can and focus on one or two main issues. Out of hundreds.&lt;br /&gt;
But those issues have to be rallying points. And we have no control over the economy so Healthcare is top dog, imo.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, you’re right.<br />
But was he destined to win? Or was he placed there to suck the populist will out of the people?<br />
 I think we have to salvage what we can and focus on one or two main issues. Out of hundreds.<br />
But those issues have to be rallying points. And we have no control over the economy so Healthcare is top dog, imo.</p>
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		<title>By: openhope</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934114</link>
		<dc:creator>openhope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934114</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What our family is doing on a small scale thing ; we are transferring over our banking from US Bank to a credit union this week. At least they’re forced to regulate after the Neil Bush et al scandals on Savings and Loans in the 80’s.We got fried on THAT one. Big time !!&lt;br /&gt;
Sad to see him rebound and make frigging millions on No Child Left Behind bullshit programs our schools were forced to purchase to get federal funding. Childhood in slavery, school sucks. Ma Barker Bush, share holder, made out like a gold rush whore on that one. Invest in our education. Dumb them down.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What our family is doing on a small scale thing ; we are transferring over our banking from US Bank to a credit union this week. At least they’re forced to regulate after the Neil Bush et al scandals on Savings and Loans in the 80’s.We got fried on THAT one. Big time !!<br />
Sad to see him rebound and make frigging millions on No Child Left Behind bullshit programs our schools were forced to purchase to get federal funding. Childhood in slavery, school sucks. Ma Barker Bush, share holder, made out like a gold rush whore on that one. Invest in our education. Dumb them down.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934113</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/11/obama-defends-the-stimulus-but-ignores-important-critics/#comment-1934113</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It’s idiocy because whether Obama sold out or is a true believer in this garbage is irrelevant.  It isn’t going to work.  And well before he runs for re-election, if he runs again, everyone is going to see that it didn’t work.  Obama is already losing popularity.  There will be a tipping point where he will lose credibility as well.  That is a loss no politician can recover from.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It’s idiocy because whether Obama sold out or is a true believer in this garbage is irrelevant.  It isn’t going to work.  And well before he runs for re-election, if he runs again, everyone is going to see that it didn’t work.  Obama is already losing popularity.  There will be a tipping point where he will lose credibility as well.  That is a loss no politician can recover from.</p>
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