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	<title>Comments on: FDL Book Salon Welcomes Eric Lotke, 2044: The Problem Isn&#8217;t Big Brother. It&#8217;s Big Brother, Inc.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/</link>
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		<title>By: Eric Lotke</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930231</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Lotke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930231</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Wow, is this still open? Very cool and I hope so.&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, you are right, aptly named “SadButTrue.”&lt;br /&gt;
“Deliberate” was maybe not the best word. The corporations are behaving deliberately. They are consciously focusing on this tiny sliver of short-term profit maximizing behavior. Everything else is a side effect. They don’t care about that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Henry Ford is said to have said that he had to pay his workers enough that they could afford to buy his cars. Today’s mega-corporations think differently. It’s all short term and all profit. No social contract.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My book skates it to the conclusion. Hopefuly it will help wake people up to the downside.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And yes to the next two questions:&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, it can be done differently. Business doesn’t have to behave this way. Some successful ones do not.&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, they don’t have to win. Democracy isn’t dead yet. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This book is part of our collective wake up call. Let’s get people talking …! &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.2044thenovel.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.2044thenovel.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, is this still open? Very cool and I hope so.<br />
Yes, you are right, aptly named “SadButTrue.”<br />
“Deliberate” was maybe not the best word. The corporations are behaving deliberately. They are consciously focusing on this tiny sliver of short-term profit maximizing behavior. Everything else is a side effect. They don’t care about that.</p>
<p>Henry Ford is said to have said that he had to pay his workers enough that they could afford to buy his cars. Today’s mega-corporations think differently. It’s all short term and all profit. No social contract.</p>
<p>My book skates it to the conclusion. Hopefuly it will help wake people up to the downside.</p>
<p>And yes to the next two questions:<br />
Yes, it can be done differently. Business doesn’t have to behave this way. Some successful ones do not.<br />
Yes, they don’t have to win. Democracy isn’t dead yet. </p>
<p>This book is part of our collective wake up call. Let’s get people talking …! <a href="http://www.2044thenovel.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.2044thenovel.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930192</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930192</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;sort of like ethnic cleansing&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How typical of the rich (and the Bush family is rich) to think of limiting other people’s rights (including life) in order for the world to somehow be better (especially for them).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those are very sick people and the public was never told before they voted.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sort of like ethnic cleansing</p>
<p>How typical of the rich (and the Bush family is rich) to think of limiting other people’s rights (including life) in order for the world to somehow be better (especially for them).</p>
<p>Those are very sick people and the public was never told before they voted.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930191</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930191</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The eternal needs &amp; fears of the human body leads to the holy grail of corporatism: a consumer who doesn’t know why he desires a product and can’t stop from buying it for an outrageous price even if it’s clearly bad.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just like selling drugs…that’s modern corporatism.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The eternal needs &amp; fears of the human body leads to the holy grail of corporatism: a consumer who doesn’t know why he desires a product and can’t stop from buying it for an outrageous price even if it’s clearly bad.</p>
<p>Just like selling drugs…that’s modern corporatism.</p>
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		<title>By: SadButTrue</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930190</link>
		<dc:creator>SadButTrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930190</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;“More importantly, this dystopia is less deliberate than that.”&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I would think from context that you might have used a different word than deliberate - malicious perhaps. If you set out deliberately to maximize profits &lt;em&gt;without regard to the ’spinoff’ negative consequences&lt;/em&gt; (predictable or otherwise) you are no less responsible than someone who proceeds to do intentional harm. I guess it shows that being immoral or amoral makes no difference when measured by outcome. Collateral damage and all that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW, have you ever seen &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thecorporation.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Corporation&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, a documentary by Joel Bakan, Jennifer Abbot and Mark Achbar? It explores to some degree how quite often the directors of corps that do a lot of harm see themselves as just running a company in the best interests of their stockholders.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>“More importantly, this dystopia is less deliberate than that.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I would think from context that you might have used a different word than deliberate &#8211; malicious perhaps. If you set out deliberately to maximize profits <em>without regard to the ’spinoff’ negative consequences</em> (predictable or otherwise) you are no less responsible than someone who proceeds to do intentional harm. I guess it shows that being immoral or amoral makes no difference when measured by outcome. Collateral damage and all that.</p>
<p>BTW, have you ever seen <a href="http://www.thecorporation.com/" rel="nofollow"><em>The Corporation</em></a>, a documentary by Joel Bakan, Jennifer Abbot and Mark Achbar? It explores to some degree how quite often the directors of corps that do a lot of harm see themselves as just running a company in the best interests of their stockholders.</p>
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		<title>By: SadButTrue</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930185</link>
		<dc:creator>SadButTrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930185</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Now that I’ve read more of the thread; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s interesting that John Brunner’s novels were mentioned, because I thought of them right away reading the description of &lt;em&gt;2044&lt;/em&gt;. There were actually four novels in the series.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;Stand on Zanzibar&lt;/em&gt; was the best-known and I think it won a Hugo.&lt;br /&gt;
I liked &lt;em&gt;The Shockwave Rider&lt;/em&gt; the best and thought it would have made a great premise for a TV series - Nicky Haflinger as a futuristic version of &lt;em&gt;The Fugitive&lt;/em&gt;’s Richard Kimble.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Sheep Look Up&lt;/em&gt; was also mentioned, but &lt;em&gt;The Jagged Orbit&lt;/em&gt; was omitted.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What was great about these novels (written in the early seventies and set between about 1995-2010) was that they didn’t go too far into the future. I think this puts more of a burden on the author than something 500, 1,000, or 10,000 years from now, when technology could be presented as something indistinguishable from magic with no explanation of how it came to be. &lt;em&gt;The Shockwave Rider&lt;/em&gt; for instance, was centered around the existence of something not too unlike the internet - though the real thing is much more advanced than Brunner anticipated. Not so much speculative but extrapolative fiction. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m looking forward to reading 2044 for that reason.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that I’ve read more of the thread; </p>
<p>It’s interesting that John Brunner’s novels were mentioned, because I thought of them right away reading the description of <em>2044</em>. There were actually four novels in the series.<br /><em>Stand on Zanzibar</em> was the best-known and I think it won a Hugo.<br />
I liked <em>The Shockwave Rider</em> the best and thought it would have made a great premise for a TV series &#8211; Nicky Haflinger as a futuristic version of <em>The Fugitive</em>’s Richard Kimble.<br /><em>The Sheep Look Up</em> was also mentioned, but <em>The Jagged Orbit</em> was omitted.</p>
<p>What was great about these novels (written in the early seventies and set between about 1995-2010) was that they didn’t go too far into the future. I think this puts more of a burden on the author than something 500, 1,000, or 10,000 years from now, when technology could be presented as something indistinguishable from magic with no explanation of how it came to be. <em>The Shockwave Rider</em> for instance, was centered around the existence of something not too unlike the internet &#8211; though the real thing is much more advanced than Brunner anticipated. Not so much speculative but extrapolative fiction. </p>
<p>I’m looking forward to reading 2044 for that reason.</p>
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		<title>By: libbyliberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930184</link>
		<dc:creator>libbyliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930184</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Isn’t that the epiphany especially of future sci fi.  The haunting deja vu feeling or recognition.  Aha!  We are here already.  Though we don’t always get it immediately, do we?  I thought Bradbury and Heller were being hyperbolic in Fahrenheit 451 and Catch 22.  Catch 22 sounds like Bush-Rumsfeld-Cheney fiasco LITE compared to what further insanity was going down.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Though I’m thinking I blamed Bushco too much (can’t believe I am writing this) in that I have overlooked the horrifing momentum of military industrial complex even with the supposed progressives in power. Little accountability and transparency.  Imperialism.  Drone civilian deaths.  Black ops and detention continues. Military bases and embassies absorbing taxpayer dollars.  Evil inertia to stay in motion.  Oy vey.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn’t that the epiphany especially of future sci fi.  The haunting deja vu feeling or recognition.  Aha!  We are here already.  Though we don’t always get it immediately, do we?  I thought Bradbury and Heller were being hyperbolic in Fahrenheit 451 and Catch 22.  Catch 22 sounds like Bush-Rumsfeld-Cheney fiasco LITE compared to what further insanity was going down.  </p>
<p>Though I’m thinking I blamed Bushco too much (can’t believe I am writing this) in that I have overlooked the horrifing momentum of military industrial complex even with the supposed progressives in power. Little accountability and transparency.  Imperialism.  Drone civilian deaths.  Black ops and detention continues. Military bases and embassies absorbing taxpayer dollars.  Evil inertia to stay in motion.  Oy vey.</p>
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		<title>By: FrieddogPhil</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930179</link>
		<dc:creator>FrieddogPhil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930179</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;2044? It could just as easily have been titled 2009. But then it wouldn’t be science fiction, would it?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2044? It could just as easily have been titled 2009. But then it wouldn’t be science fiction, would it?</p>
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		<title>By: Kassandra</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930170</link>
		<dc:creator>Kassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930170</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As long as GOD is in there somewhere, you betcha!&lt;br /&gt;
Speaking of distraction ala Palin..just look at what we’ve gotten while Congress distract US form what they’re doing with “healthcare”…Sanford ( wooo! Wookit the BAD Republican!) Micheal Jackson, who nothing gave qa tinker’s damn about ’til he took a ride. Then even Maddow was preempted for a “look at his life”. Now Palin and her shuddery speech and endless coverage&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as GOD is in there somewhere, you betcha!<br />
Speaking of distraction ala Palin..just look at what we’ve gotten while Congress distract US form what they’re doing with “healthcare”…Sanford ( wooo! Wookit the BAD Republican!) Micheal Jackson, who nothing gave qa tinker’s damn about ’til he took a ride. Then even Maddow was preempted for a “look at his life”. Now Palin and her shuddery speech and endless coverage</p>
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		<title>By: spocko</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930164</link>
		<dc:creator>spocko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930164</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks! I fed the techniques to other groups that used them successfully against Michael Savage and Anne Coulter. It uses the right’s beloved “Free Market” against their own media. It also doesn’t let the hosts cry, “You are trying to silence us!” The host’s beef becomes with their sponsors. They have to convince the sponsors to keep supporting them and their sick calls to kill the sponsors’ potential customers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Savage and the RW hosts get supported by the left if anyone ever even hints at limiting their “free speech” (even though it is commercially sponsored speech). But if you say, “They can say it, but they don’t have to get paid to say it.” then it throws it back to media giant against the corporate sponsors paying the bill and they can’t be defended by crying, “Free speech!”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks! I fed the techniques to other groups that used them successfully against Michael Savage and Anne Coulter. It uses the right’s beloved “Free Market” against their own media. It also doesn’t let the hosts cry, “You are trying to silence us!” The host’s beef becomes with their sponsors. They have to convince the sponsors to keep supporting them and their sick calls to kill the sponsors’ potential customers.</p>
<p>Savage and the RW hosts get supported by the left if anyone ever even hints at limiting their “free speech” (even though it is commercially sponsored speech). But if you say, “They can say it, but they don’t have to get paid to say it.” then it throws it back to media giant against the corporate sponsors paying the bill and they can’t be defended by crying, “Free speech!”</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Lotke</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930163</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Lotke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/07/05/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-eric-lotke-2044-the-problem-isnt-big-brother-its-big-brother-inc/#comment-1930163</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Eli and Bev,&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for having me.&lt;br /&gt;
These Salons are terrific.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eli and Bev,<br />
Thanks for having me.<br />
These Salons are terrific.</p>
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