Comments on: July 4, 1776: Liberals Up, Conservatives Down

By: dakine01

dakine01 — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:50:43 +0000

Well, eight years of a war of independence may have had some bearing on the changes.

My understanding of the history involved is that, yes, most of the signers were in fact fairly well-to-do. But no matter how well-to-do they were, they were NOT given representation in Parliament. You know? That old “No taxation without representation” thing?

Since my ancestors fought on the frontier in Kentucky on the side of the colonials and were not Tories, I think I’ll happily stay on the side that says the Declaration of Independence was in fact a quite liberal document.

And it still is a liberal document for all the faults of the original signers (and they were many and manifest).

By: regulararmyfool

regulararmyfool — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:56:46 +0000

Sorry dakino01, I was a student of history.

I studied the period for 20 years before the American Revolution and for 30 years after.

Of ALL of the complaints of the leaders of the revolution against the crown every single complaint became worse for the common man after the revolution.

Twice as many people voted in the colonial legislatures before the revolution than did afterward. Because the rich made property a qualification for voting.

The onerous taxes tripled as the ‘merican merchants and manufacturers controlled trade.

Only one single signer of the Declaration of Independence served in a battle. Not one single signer of the Declaration lost a son or daughter in the war.

200,000 people left the US after the surrender of Cornwallis. Who got their assets? The compensation cases were still being tried in the British courts in the 1840s, because the British did compensate their war victims. We did NOT.

But hey what do I know?

By: SamHolloway

SamHolloway — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 10:26:40 +0000

I disagree with Schlesinger. Whatever ‘feudalism’ is, we had our own backward, antidemocratic social order right here. It was held up by the institution of chattel slavery and the social and economic traditions that grew out of that slavery. It was the original, unspoken ‘deal with the Devil’ that was a built-in birth defect of our Constitution, and we’re still hobbled by it today. It’s the lifeblood of wingnut politics, and if we continue to ignore it (”we” being liberals who are supposed to know better) or downplay it, it will continue to destroy what is left of our republic.

By: nahant

nahant — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:07:36 +0000

I’m surprised I was not spitting feathers……

Whew’ee can’t says I blame you Katy for feeling that way. I am still amazed at just how uninformed/undereducated many of our fellow Citizens are!! Maybe just maybe you would think they just might take the time to really educate themselves on what is happening! I mean WTF these Medical insurance companies are trying to make us think like Sheeples! No inkling at all what they are really doing is fleecing all of us for their Make Believe health insurance!!!!
You keep up the good work Katy!!

By: Chacounne

Chacounne — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:54:01 +0000

Yes, because, of course those who need care and can’t get it, or who got care too late, because of the alleged American health care “system” should just sit down and be quiet.

(Sorry, I am truly not usually like this, but you hit a button.)

Sadly,
For Dan,
Heather

By: Chacounne

Chacounne — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:47:40 +0000

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Katymine))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
AMEN !!!!

Healing Hugs,
Heather

By: Chacounne

Chacounne — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:44:50 +0000

“The great advantage of the American,” Tocqueville wrote over a century ago, “is that he has arrived at a state of democracy without having to endure a democratic revolution and that he is born free without having to become so.”

Hmmmm … I think the descendants of African American slaves might argue with that. I also think that women, who were not allowed to vote might argue with that, and that GLBTTQ Americans might argue with that even today.

Curious,
Heather

By: wmd1961

wmd1961 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:30:09 +0000

A kidney cancer forum should be about healing, how to get the care you need. Getting care does have political implications… best to shy away from the politics and concentrate on healing.

My former SO had a son with a brain tumor, in addition to treatment and support discussion there was a lot of talk about getting a National Registry for brain tumors on that mailing list. Not so much about access to treatment/socialized medicine talk.

By: DrDick

DrDick — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:26:08 +0000

the absence of feudalism is a basic factor in accounting for the pervasive liberalism of the American political climate

A defect which conservatives have sought to remedy since the inception of the Republic. We are unfortunate enough to live in one of those periods when they have been particularly successful (as in the 1890s and 1920s).

By: katymine

katymine — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:07:06 +0000

The think that pisses me off is that a Kidney Cancer forum should be about how we support each other, side effects and successes of the latest treatments. Report our good and the bad scans for that support. Find good specialists and care centers and post research…..

NOT throwing out political lies that are repeated on faux noise……