Please stay on topic, no off topic crosstalk please. Also please stay respectful of differing views and ideas. No derogatory comments, etc. Thanks

Welcome! Thank you both for coming. And congratulation to Hamza on the birth of his child! Boy or girl? Name?

Thanks, we’re glad to be here! Hamza and Rafiah have had a boy named Zain.

He says hi and sorry to not make it, but we’re very lucky to have the fabulous co-producer Kauthar Umar join us.

Good evening. I’m so happy to be here. Hamza would have loved to join us but as you know he had a healthy baby boy.

Iam so so pleased you both could join us! Three years in th emaking–that must have been an intense project–and one that certian developed and unfolded as you followed Hamza and his brother..

Yes the Puerto Rican American population of Pittsburgh just took another exponential leap forward!

What has life been since the PBS / POV broadcast last week?

Yes, absolutely. A very intense project but worth it in so many ways.

also, please forgive my poor typing at times…

For thos eof yo just joining us Jennifer and Kauthar are the director and co-producer, respectively of New Muslim Cool, an awesome documentary which covers three intense years in the life of Hamza Perez. How did you learn about Hamza, his brother and M-Team, there rap group?

We have had an amazing and mostly positive response since the film had its national debut. It continues to play on PBS stations around the country and online for a few more weeks. For the most part people are responding very well to the interfaith themes, and the story of a person looking to respond well to adverse situations.

We’ve been very very busy bit it’s all very exciting.

Welcome Jennifer and Kauthar!

What a pleasure it is to have you hewre with us and please send our congratulations to Hamza on the birth of his son!

We discovered Hamza and his brother early in the production process, when we were setting out to film more of a survey style film about Muslims and hip hop culture. Once we filmed with them we realized we had an opportunity to delve more deeply into a bunch of themes such as race, class, masculinity, and the role faith can play in people’s lives.

When you started filming did you expect this would be a 3 yr long project?

Thank you Siun, and to LIsa’s question we did not expect to film for so long but 3 yrs is actually the average for this kind of film

That means I’ll get to make just a couple more films by the time i retire (just kidding)

The beauty of filming for that long is you get to really gain a real sense of trust and intimacy and you get to track a person’s changes, which in this case turned out to be the centerpiece of the film.

At the outset I don’t think any of us imagined the enormous changes that would take place in Hamza’s life, and in the life of his community as a whole.

how much time a week did you spend with Hamza and his family?

Hi, I can’t wait to see this movie, missed it on PBS. Over the last three years, what changes have you seen in the American Muslim communities sense of self and belonging in the U.S. Is it easier?

And of course as events unfolded we would just have to roll with them, continue to synthesize as we sough to make a compelling (and coherent) story, and try to figure out when and where we could feel we’d finished. As it turned out the events really gave us three acts of developments, as it were.

I have only had a chance to watch part of the film – my dvd player in my laptop was broken and I was up in Canada where I didn’t get to see POV but just watching the parts I’ve seen, I am so impressed with the openness and warmth of the film.

And so happy to see both Islam and hiphop introduced to viewers with such respect.

To Lisa, we would shoot for about 3 days at each shoot, on average every 2 months. I live in California and so we would travel to Pittsburgh.

To Akak, thanks you can still see it streaming on pbs.org and of course we hope people will buy the DVD with the extra features!

I think things are changing overall as the American Muslim community comes of age and as people get to know each other more and more on a personal level. That is the beauty of this country, I think, that we usually can drop our suspicions or prejudices once we just meet people face to face.

And Siun, we can get you a DVD no problem, it’s at our website and has loads of good extra stuff.

I know – from reports from my friend Nicole – that you received an award in Doha and had quite a reception there. How is the wider Muslim world reacting to this vision of Islam? (and what was the Doha experience like?)

Thanks for your comment Siun. I think we’ve received many comments from viewers about the Islam and hip hop connection in the film. There’s a long history where Islam and hip hop merge in certain communities in the U.S.

Thanks – have the DVD but had to get home and finish work to start watching … I’m halfway through and loving it but paused so I could join this discussion.

It’s definitely a must watch! and must buy to support such great work – I’ll be sending copies to several friends.

Yes, wonderful Nicole! We did receive an award at the Al Jazeera International Documentary Festival in Doha in April, for the best feature film on Freedom. It was so great and a fantastic surprise, as this was the first official screening of the film! The reactions were very strongly positive, the first comment we got after the screening was from a woman who said she was so glad to see Muslims, Jews and Christians getting along. We even had some folks from Saudi Arabia approach us to ask us to visit there with teh film.

Siun, how did you get it already?

Listening to/watching M-Team’s first rap in the film, the rap about Saudi Arabia and the Masons, the patriot Act…very intense concepts that in a post 9/11 world could wrongly raise some eyebrows with the authorities

An invite to Saudi Arabia – wow! Now that is quite something – I hope you get to make that trip! (especially given the Saudi comments in some of the tracks!)

Not having watched it yet, forgive me if this is something you address, but there has been an issue among Muslim converts and especially African American Muslims of not being integrated or even welcome among Muslim immigrant communities. I’ve read of various efforts to bridge that divide. Is that something that comes up in the documentary. The divisions within American Muslims, other than of ideology.

Lisa, absolutely. The stances and comments are really strong and intense as you say. Of course nothing more intense than what you hear in most mainstream rap music, but since it’s political it’s pretty charged and could raise some eyebrows.

Thanks to POV – as a member of the FDL team.

To Akak’s question, the immigrant community response to Hamza’s community did not come up very much in teh film. It’s certainly part of the larger context and I think something that is a discussion point as people watch the film.

Oh phew, thanks! We would love for people to get any subsequent copies from us ;-)

I was moved by Hamza’s growth and understanding within the development of his faith–at one point he says “we can’t turn the other cheek, we have to fight.” But then after the FBI raid on his mosque he talks about the need to in fact do exactly that. He is proof that faith and action combined facilitate change internally and externally.

We had a number of top-line themes that we wanted to address when we started working, hip-hop culture as global lingua franca for youth, dynamism and diversity within the Muslim community, relationships between converts and immigrants etc. MOst of those found their way into the film anyway, despite the turn we took toward a much more intensely personal focus.

Yes, that moment to me is the whole key turning point. Hamza and his whole community figured out, as he says in a deleted scene, that “fighting is not just with the fists.” So they decided that the best way to respond to the FBI raid was through proactive, positive action that would both reaffirm their own values and identities but also the larger set of shared civic values.

Thanks. It definitely seems that issues of integration or interaction are more at the level of authority, in the sense of mosque boards and community groups.
At a grass-roots level, second-third generation immigrants are immersed as much in hip-hop culture (some psuedo gangsterism there) and don’t have a reflexive racism (yes, i think many older immigrants are just racist, or at least prejudiced!)

And that is something that is really resonating, whether the film is being seen by folks in teh Middle East or in Middle America, that everyone has the capacity to dig deep and find a positive way to respond to adversity. That is so central to the film, that Hamza and his community decide not to act like victims, that I really cringe when people say the film is full of “liberal cliches.”

Did he ever get his drug dealer reform institute going?

So what is the status of his FBI clearance and prison work now?

Akak, regarding the younger generation I think you are exactly right, there is basic mixing going on all the time. Don’t you think, Kauthar?

Hamza continues to work in teh jail and has gained even more support from teh warden and chaplain Lynn. As a matter of fact, we showed the film recently in the jail and they are going to consult with us to prepare a special DVD for jail chaplains and staff to use at their facilities. It is amazing how many things have turned around!

Wow, that’s awesome! I hope that can make its way to other prisons!

Regarding teh drug dealer reform, Hamza and Luqmon continue to work with that curriculum in their day-to-day jobs as street counselors for a national non-profit organization. And we’re hoping to devevelop an educational video game based on it.

Yes Jenn, I agree. Especially under the banner of the arts. Music and artistic expression has always had the ability to unite. Within the American Muslim community the Arts have been helping to bring youth from different walks of life together.

Thanks Akak, we have some funding to do a tour of schools and jails starting in the fall, and if we are succesful down the line with the video game idea we would add that too. It’ so interesting because when we started showing the film I thought most of the discussion and comments would center on the faith issue, but the at-risk youth issues and ideas about young people finding their own “goodness” are resonating even more strongly.

Yeah, I’m married to a second-generation South Asian Muslim and I can see it in his wider family, how the younger ones don’t have any hang-ups based on race or ethnicity. Much more interreligious and inter-ethnic marriages etc.

I love that Hamza found his wife through an online Muslim dating service!

I foudn it really ecumenical the work Hamza was doing, one class was inclusive and the others all Christians!

The FBI raid–that was really intense…and really would the FBI have raided say a Christian identenity church on a Sunday?

We’ve had comments from high school kids and comments from inmates that are almost verbatim the same, taht the film inspires them to find their own ability to respond positively to bad things, to take some responsbility and stop seeing themselves as bad people.

That’s great, it gives you a great entrance to a wider audience. I wonder if it would be useful in interfaith meetings that various houses of worship try to organize too.

yes we love technology!

I think because Hamza, like so many converts, grew up Christian, he knows a lot about Christian ideas and tenets. They’re not so far apart really, as Abrahamic religions. And wehther the FBI woudl have raided on a Sunday that is a good question.

My daughter is very involved in hiphop and when she was at home, introduced me – not to the top 40 stuff but “real hiphop” and I continue to see it as a core vehicle for change – and one we should pay much more respect to.

Are M-team recording more?

Yes are we are definitely doing lots of interfaith screenings and discussions.

In Los Angeles, we have a lot of interracial difficulties, Latino vs African American. However, it seems that on the East coast, at least in the Muslim community, faith unifies and crosses racial boundaries.

To speak of incongruous timing, I actually saw a U.S. Army recruitment booth outside a mosque in LA, I think it was the last Friday before the Eid festival!

I definitely agree. I sort of fell out of liking hip-hop in the mid-90s once the more “conscious” artists like De La Soul fell out of favor, so it’s been great to discover all of these folks who are reaching back to hip-hop’s roots to be a positive force in teh community. We’ve been doing some screenings and events with positive and conscious hip hop organizations like Words, Beats, LIfe, and it’s been so fun!

And yes, M-Team is recording. We’ll have a NEW MUSLIM COOL COMPILATION ALBUM out in about a month, with new songs by M-Team and a whole bunch of guest artists, including original spoken word pieces by Q-Tip.

The film really resonates with interfaith groups and various houses of workship. The book, Crossing Limits, that Hamza and Luqmon are working on with Carol, really focuses on interfaith and unity in the Muslim and Jewish communities through poetry. This interfaith component really resonates with some people and Temples, Churches and Mosques have requested to the film for viewing.

That’s a good question about east coast-west coast. Kauthar could answer that better than I.

That’s funny, but I guess better that they are not treating the Muslim community as if nobody would serve.

That’s great to hear!. I’d love to get this for younger relatives. I was introduced to hip-hop by my husband, who also grew disenchanted with later fare. But we’ve been fans of Mos Def and Talib Kweli.

It seems bizarre that at one level FBI is sending in spies, and at another Army is trying to recruit.
Did Hamza speak about what it might be like to have to constantly be aware of what he says or does, because of the possibility of informants and given what happened to him?

Regarding the point you made, LIsa, about communities not getting along in Los Angeles, I know with Hamza’s community they very explicitly look for connections and unity among African Americans and Latinos and it’s possible there is a more unified sense because so many of them know or are from Puerto Rican culture, which is so mixed.

I hope you got a picture of that!

Hamza always says that since he and his community aren’t doing anything wrong, that they don’t mind the scrutiny.

I’m not sure if racial issues differ on the East coast vs the West coast. I think the problems are similar on each coast and neither is a Utopian situation. In fact I find that faith has really united people of various racial backgrounds and nationalities in Muslim community in the Bay Area of California, where there are many interacial marriages and many ethnic communities living and working in unity side by side.

The New York Times had some interesting pieces about tensions in New York between urban and suburban communities… economic differences played a huge role with suburban communities flush, given the rich doctors etc and urban communities facing budget crises.

I spent several weeks in Pittsburgh last spring doing extra background research on the raid and surveillance issues, and shot a bunch of extra interviews with an ex FBI agent, a former US Atty and some other folks. They all got cut out of the film (but they’re on the DVD) but I was able to get enough general indications that it was very likely there could really have been some surveillance before the raid that I felt comfortable with Hamza’s discussion of the mysterious green box.

I wish I had! I’m sure they’ll show up again this year. I’ll be prepared!

That was my thought, that Puerto Rico has a diasporic cultural base. ALos faithwise here in LA, there are so many small storefront evangelical/pentecostal churches which really have made inroads on the traditional Catholic base. We do have a large (and growing) number of mosques, plus a visible Nation of Islam community…Speak of NOI, how are the reacting to the new Muslims like Hamza? Are there doctrinal differences?

Oh sorry, still talking about the surveillance question… anyway, I took a picture of the green box all around Pittsburgh with me, stopped work crews in their trucks, went down to the Department of Public Works, learned about the anatomy of a utility pole, and nobody was ever able to positively say “oh that’s a such and such for the electricity or the phone” NObody knew what it was. I diseappeared a few weeks after the raid.

At the beginning of the film, Hamza’s brother I think says “you’re puerto rican, muslim, etc … and that’s their worst nightmare” and I found that really resonated with me. It seems that efforts to address community problems that grow within that community itself are always seen as dangerous not only to the powers that be but also to a sort of neoliberal “we know the answers” elite.

NOI is pretty much separate from folks like in Hamza’s community,who woudl self-identify as “orthodox Sunni Muslim” but maybe Kauthar can answer that more elegantly than I can

extra background research on the raid and surveillance issues, and shot a bunch of extra interviews with an ex FBI agent, a former US Atty and some other folks. They all got cut out of the film (but they’re on the DVD)

Great reason fo rme to get the DVD. This on DVD is a GREAT gift item for folks for the holidays or birthdays–rap fans, religious studies folks, cultural anthropology, social studies, pop culture, whatever. NMC has lots to offer, to learn form and discuss.

Oh Siun, you are so right, that is so true! I think that what ends up happening in the film defies lots of pre-set answers and suppositions. And as I said earlier, I get kind of vexed when people say oh this film is just liberal clap-trap because it’s really about a community taking a lot of responsibility for itself, not waiting for someone else to do it.

fascinating!

Thanks, yes we would LOVE for people to get the DVD and the proceeds will go right back to our project to support our screening and discussoin tour of interfaith and youth centers, schools, and jails.

The members of the NOI have been responding positively to the film and respect the Muslims who abide by a Sunni or orthadox/ universal teachings of Islam, though the history of the sect has some differences in practices and beleifs.

And it should be acknowledged that the NOI and some of its offshoots had an impact on hip-hop culture

which is what conservatives are always whining about, self help. But it’s the empowerment that comes of it that they can’t abide!

And to that point, our senior advisor Zaheer Ali did this very cool interactive timeline tracing the influence of many different Muslim groups on the development of hip-hop culture, P.O.V. has it up at their website.

LOL, Akak!

That sounds really interesting – I’m looking forward to checking it out.

I do have to say though, and i’ve been thrilled by this, that we’ve gotten some notes from people who said they were inclined really hate Hamza or just reject the whole story but that they stuck with it and it changed their opinions.

Yes, I don’t think there’s ever ben a timeline of it’s kind, that focuses on the merge between hip hop and islam.

i mean, I didn’t know anything about Muslims when I started making this film but I figured there just had to be a HUMAN story in there

oops sorry, I keep going on about my old comments. Yes the timeline ROCKS!

I just read the very positive review in the NYT.

For the US Govt establishment NOI has always been a bit scary…

What is next for Hamza? and for each of you?

That’s great. Is that available on your website or the DVD?

Thanks Akak, that review made us SO HAPPY. My favorite thing is that the reviewer said the film could help you “access a closer view of human decency.” That meant she saw to the heart of the story which goes beyond the religious particulars to the universal things that we all strive to achieve.

The interactive timeline, and a preview of Kauthar’s upcoming book, is available at POV’s website

What’s next for each of us is a lot of community engagement work with the film, with interfaith groups, youth civic engagement projects, schools, and correctional facilities. We’ll tour the US this fall with the film and also start going abroad.

Kauthar is editing a companion book of photo essays called Islamerica, with amazing work by some of the world’s leading hip-hop photographers.

Yes, that’s what struck me too. That it didn’t go on about Muslims and 9/11 and jihad.

Hamza and his wife are of course expanding their family with the just-born Zain, and he is continuing to perform with Suliman and speak around the country as the film shows.

And I am hoping, in addition to launching all of our ancillary projects such as the music CD and the tour, to start my next film. A musical comedy extravaganza called Stop! Wait! That’s My Taco Truck!

And then I’ll do another serious doc.

Isn’t Islam amazing? I’ve gotten to know a lot from my contacts for my writing on Iraq and realized I had never really understood both the wonder of the faith itself and the strength of the Islamic community.

A film like yours really helps to introduce so many new people to that strength.

thanks. I have to get back to work, but thank you Jennifer and Kauthar for making this movie and discussing your experience. All the best in your new endeavors. Thanks Lisa for hosting, and Siun.

I know, right? That review was just so great and I think showed that in general people are wanting the conversations to broaden. I think the events in Iran are doing that as well, putting a human face on young people who happen to be Muslim, who use new technology, and who peacefully are asking for a voice and self-expression.

A tour! I hope you have Chicago on the schedule!

I want to see that musical!

Yes, that has been a blessing in disguise in terms of humanizing Iran in the eyes of middle america.

What I think is so amazing is how capable we all are of growing and of goodness, whatever religion (or no religion) we choose. I definitely think there are some beautiful ideas and tenets expressed in Islam, as there are in other faiths, but so much of the proof is in the practice. I think Hamza’s story tells us a lot about the strengths that we can all find if we look inside ourselves and don’t listen to the voice that says we are bad people, and it defintely tells us something about the ways in which a lot of people in his community and generation are trying to live their faith in a way that really supports the larger society.

I was deeply moved by the faith and certainty that Hamza and his community had. When faith can motivate and help you grow, help the community, that is an awesome thing.

Sadly we do see elsehwere how faiths can restrict and control, but true faith need not rely on fundamentalism and fear, but in a knowingness for the individual of what is right and true, resonating fo rthem

Chicago is TOP OF THE LIST for sure! And not just because I want a hot dog with the neon relish…we have lots of wonderful community partners and scholars to visit in Chicago, the rabbi who encouraged Carol to do Crossing Limits with Muslims, and many other great folks to visit.

Yes, that for me was the biggest lesson personally. I don’t consider myself religious and I think I was very dismissive of people with faith before embarking on this project, and now I feel like I can respect and understand much better when people feel called by a faith, to whatever religion they feel is the path. As long as we all agree on common values in our civic space, which I think Hamza and the other people in the film do.

And that’s another reason I sort of tear my hair out when some people dismiss the film, even though that hasn’t happened too much. The depth of Hamza’s faith and the good results he tries to achieve to me occupy the samespace as what Chaplain Lynn, an evangelical Christian, is trying to do.

In some respects I think we would have made the same film if Hamza were Christian, although of course the post-9/11 PATRIOT Act theme would have been different.

Wonderful – we’ll plan an FDL party!

The patriot act is pretty scary! And IMO, Hamza is very pro-America in that he is trying to IMPROVE things!

But so many of the film’s other themes, family, growing up, becoming a good dad and husband, trying to work in your community to make it better, melding your different cultural selves — those could have all been just as strong themes if the Muslim theme weren’t in there.

yes, that would be wonderful!

Yes Hamza and his other community members are also trying to bring a vision of their religion that is actually pretty counter to what the Saudis teach. They are much more interested in inner change than outer conformity, and they are very focused on mercy as a core tenet.

That was the irony when Hamza was kicked out of the jail – that the vision of the faith that he was bringing to the inmates would actually increase interfaith harmony and focus more on self-reflection than on some sort of external understanding of the religion and just its outward forms. The good thing is that the the jail administration now seem to really get that and suport that. In the long run it’s bettter for all of us.

These are universal themes, and for many faith–whatever that may be–helps frame or even drive these goals

Sort of on a very local level what might be a good shift for us in terms of larger policy, to look for common values between Muslims and non-Muslims, to focus on true inward improvement and forgiveness and mercy.

And even for those of us with no real organized religion or formal theology, those are still values to try to live by. IMHO.

Thank you both so muchh for being here and fo rmaking New Muslim Cool, please send our warms wishes to Zain an dhis parents! And thank you for makng ne the awesomest docs ever! Continued success!

ANd Siun, thnak you for helping set this up! Pups, thanks for joining us!

Next weekend we’ll be showing the film at a big conference with the Islamic Society of North America, and we’re having a Fourth of July Jam Session and BBQ with a PUnjabi punk band called The Kominas, Hamza and Suliman’s group M-Team, Dej Jam poet Amir Sulaiman, and other artists. The Kominas are working on a thrash metal tribute to Michael Jacson and I’ve requested that they also play the Charlies Angels theme. That is the New Muslim (and just Human) Cool.

Thank you for having us.

Yes, thank you so much Siun, Lisa, and everyone else. This was really fun and we are very appreciative that you had so many great comments. Thank you!!!!

So what’s the Taco movie about? sounds like quite a shift!

Thanks so much for being here – and thanks Lisa for hosting such a great discussion!

What a great film – and great people!

IT’s about two dueling bands vying for control of the Mission District and one accidentally steals a taco truck and goes careening thorugh the city. Sort of Wizard of Oz story about loving your own ‘hood. I always do short silly films in between the bigger projects, way to get my corny humor out!

Thank you again you guys, hope to see you in Chicago, Siun.

And Lisa, we’ll be in L.A. in Septmeber, will stay in touch. Thanks again, bye!

RAD! Now that;s america!

Bravo!

And party for all of you in Chi!