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Along with “listening” McChrystal is once again announcing that there will be changes in how US forces operate in Afghanistan in response to the increasing civilian casualties caused by US air strikes and raids. Yet we have heard the same promises and pledges month after month from a variety of US commanders – and Afghans continue to die in attacks which are always denied and then later labeled as “mistakes.” And no one in the US military ever faces disciplinary actions for those “mistakes.” Instead, actions are covered up, reports hidden and access to evidence blocked.
For all the tale, the civilian casualties continue:
June 11 – A US-led air strike has killed 22 people, including 10 civilians in the central Ghor province, officials said…
A day earlier, US forces in statement said a prominent militant commander, Mullah Mustafa, and 16 other insurgents were killed in the bombing.
Later, Mullah Mustafa in a phone interview told Quqnoos that he is “not harmed in the incident”.
Mullah Mustafa, who was termed by the US forces, a commander of some 100 men in the central province of Ghor, told Quqnoos that he had “never been in the opposition to the [Afghan] government”… Mullah Mustafa said his six-year old son and his ten-year old brother were killed in the air strike.
Mustafa warns that such bombings that target non-combatants will drive the support of the people towards the militants.
June 21 – Three women were killed and another eleven civilian injured in a clash between NATO and armed Taliban the other day in Pech Valley of Manogai district in Kunar Province…
Wahidi said that during the clash some of the bullets were fired in a populated area on people’s homes, as a result of which 3 women were killed and 11 others, including 6 children, were injured…
Basir, one of the residents of Kanda Gul, told PAN that during the clash, mortar shells fired by NATO forces hit Malang and Aziz-ul-Rahman’s homes and the mentioned casualties had occurred.
If the US command was serious about avoiding causing civilian casualties on the scale they did in Iraq, we would be seeing some clear disciplinary actions against the forces and commanders who cause them. Until then, it’s all just spin.
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Good evening, siunshine.
All this and much much worse for another 100 billion and no mission!
The best war with no plan that American taxpayers can buy.
Hello and thank you Siun.
Just the way Rahm likes it.
Stunning, isn’t it.
During the campaign, both Obama and McCain were clear that they would continue fighting in Afghanistan and that they believed that there’s an objective in doing so.
War is good bu$ine$$.
Evenin’, Siun, pups
I love the song, also, but you’re simplifying.
Evening Southern …
just flew home from a business trip and a bit sleepy here … apologies for quiet
Not really. It’s about control of a natural gas pipeline(s) yet to be constructed. Either Karzai’s or his successor’s govt will be in the driver’s seat or the Taliban will. The US will not tolerate a political force not under its control in power.
Yes, mind boggling actually. Wondering what the hell we have to do to get the forking clowns in Washington to listen to the country. I never wanted my tax dollars used to kill anyone. Makes.Me.Crazy.
I understand that view, but don’t think that’s an accurate account of how we got there.
The US will tolerate lots of things not under our power, as you well know.
I agree that, at this point, we’re not going to tolerate any government in Afghanistan hostile to our interests.
Bombing always = killing civilians. It’s as simple as that. But from Curtis LeMay onward, the U.S. Air Force has always been able to get away with: let us do it one more time. Surely it will work this time.
Hello Siun. I watch that Channel4 video in horror. How can we possibly expect to win any hearts and minds? I can’t imagine any of those little children will grow up to love America or Americans. And why can’t we see reports like this on our television here? This is the defining foreign policy adventure of the Obama Administration, and it is hardly ever discussed.
It is all so horrifying.
Worse than horrifying because it’s so predictable.
You’re right, the pipeline scenario had nothing to do with why we originally went there but now that the struggle in Afghanistan is about propping up Karzai against the new and improved Taliban there are business interests to be considered, with natural gas right up there. The fight with al Queda has moved into the tribal areas, giving us 2 fronts.
Exectly Teddy … the people of Afghanistan know exactly what’s happening …but don’t show us here!
The thing that gives me pause with your view is that if we succeed in pushing them out of Afghanistan and Pakistan, they’re going to scatter all over Central Asia and that’s going to totally screw up those business interests.
Did this crew not read Halberstam, I wonder?
And what makes the Taliban (i.e. the entire Pashtun tribe, some 30% of Afghanistan and I don’t know what % of Pakistan, since the Brits drew the line to divide them half in half into two countries so they wouldn’t have any power) enemies of the U.S.? Whatever have they done to the U.S., other than hosting OBL, and what could they possibly do in the future? Fighting Pashtuns is insanity. But so is most of U.S. “foreign” (i.e., military) policy.
Thank you for shining a light.
but, but, it’s the American way. We’re giving them democracy. They are just ungreatful.
It started long before VN. Don’t know the history of bombing in WWI, though suspect that, as minor as it was, it did more harm than good. But that’s definitely the case in WWII. U.K. bombed German civilians with gay abandon on the theory that it would ruin morale, but instead it strengthened it. U.S. held up a thin veneer of bombing “military” targets in Germany, but completely abandoned that when the enemy became yellow-skinned. The firebombing of Tokyo, planned by Robert Strange McNamara, was a war crime of the nth degree, admitted by McNamara himself. Didn’t cause the Japs to crumble. Just sheer nasty revenge, which is what the U.S. war against the Pashtuns is.
As with the American invasion/occupation of Iraq the history of what Americans want/desire/covet in Afghanistan/Pakistan/Iran or in other parts of Asia are following the old line about the dollar following the sword or the sword following the dollar.
The Taliban ran afoul of WashingtonDC early on regarding Asian pipeline/energy politics which in part led to other history taking form.
We know Iraq will now become a captive of western energy interests and the big American fortress embassy in Baghdad will provide the defacto American “presence” in Iraq where WashingtonDC is surely not going to leave any doubts regarding American imperial desires for the New Iraq.
Pakistan is now also to receive an American super embassy and clearly the Americans are playing by 19th colonial power rules of militarism and those that can kill will kill plenty to rid the landscape of those who had the misfortune of being there before Americans decided they should be pushed aside.
These “mistakes” Americans are repeating across Afghanistan and Pakistan are surely the plan–not mistakes.
President Obama is picking up where Bush and Cheney left off and doing what WashingtonDC has been doing in Asia since the end of WW2. He has not come out and forcibly stated otherwise. The brutal killing is done on his sign off–does he know or care? The record suggests indifference.
The Big Lie being that Americans are doing what they did/do in Iraq,Afghanistan,Pakistan or suggest about doing in Iran not because they truly are the good guys. It is killing for the dollar. Killing for imperial and corporatism power. There is no shame in using 9/11,a ginned up GWOT premise and the Stars and Stripes flown above/over it.
aw Teddy, that’s so old school …
no history, no lessons learned
Please elaborate. I thought that the Taliban were negotiating with the U.S. wrt the pipeline, and that the pipeline was derailed by civil war. Let me know where I came off the rails.
Even if, hypothetically speaking (because it will never actually happen), everyone at the highest levels of government was conscientious and determined to avoid needless death and injury, their policies would inevitably still be responsible for SOME unnecessary loss of life. That alone would prevent me from ever seeking such a job and forces me to conclude that our leaders are comfortable with the blood of innocents on their hands. Their actions would seem to lend credence to that theory.
Integral part of empire. Hubris is that because the U.S. does so much good globally, the U.S. should be forgiven those “small” deviations from perfections. Breaking eggs & omelet cliche. Innocent victims don’t share U.S. POV.
Back in the good-old-days, when the ratio of innocent Isreal’s killed to innocent Palestinians killed was 3:1. I pointed this out on an email list I maintained at the time, and from a U.S. Jew, otherwise a sensible woman, I got a reply: what innocent Palestinians.
I think that’s the mindset of the U.S. military vs. all U.S. “enemies.” They’re presumed guilty because they don’t like the U.S. Q.E.D.
What’s stunning is the lack of pushback from the liberal establishment in the U.S., who have bought the Aghanistan War along with their ticket to Obama’s parade. A rude awakening beckons for these new-style Obama hawks.
Thanks, Siun, for speaking out and working on this story. You and FDL are worth your weight in gold.
In the Ricks book salon a couple of weeks ago, I asked him why the U.S. was fighting the Taliban. Obviously my Q was so stupid it didn’t deign an A.
I thought hubris had something to do with a flea and a drawbridge?:-)
It’s not my view it’s what’s happening on the ground. The Taliban control the southern portion of the country. They also control the areas around the poppy fields. The AQ folks drifted into the tribal areas, after we bailed for Irak, where we’re letting the Pakistanis take the brunt of the fight. I would imagine there are groups of folks throughout the region now that could cause a heap of trouble for investors in the region should they decide to. We really don’t know what’s left of what is loosely termed al Queda. The military seem to sometimes interchange AQ and Taliban when talking of engagements in the tribal areas but rarely mention AQ when engagements take place in Afghanistan proper, referring to their targets as Taliban or militants.
The modern version of “If they’re dead, they’re Viet Cong.”
No, that’s not the idea that the American military has, and unless you discount what the military say, and what it teaches, you can’t defend that.
That too.
I do so discount everything the U.S. military sez because their every action belies their words. If you want to convince me otherwise, give me some evidence. Action, not words. Words are cheap.
Everything that I read in the Pakistani papers agrees with what you’re saying about AQ and Taliban in the engagements in the current Pakistani fighting. If the Pakistani army takes the fighting into Waziristan, you might hear more about the “foreign fighters”.
Do you also discount what the army teaches to the officer corps?
Thanks Jeff – that means a lot.
Our liberal establishment seems always quite partial to ignoring other’s sovereignty and rights of self-determination.
I think you haven’t been hearing clearly what the purpose is for our presence in Afghanistan.
We’re there to deny the Taleban control of the country or of the ability to do much guerrila warfare.
That and assistance to the Pakistanis to fight the Taleban make it more possible for us to destroy Al Qaeda.
I think condemning the attacks which kill innocents is reasonable since the plan is supposedly to NOT harm innocents. I agree there needs to be competent oversight and justice. That doesn’t mean it’s right to hold the elephant in the china shop to the same standard of a diamond cutter.
I note, for the record, that you provided no evidence.
As for what the military teaches, yep, I discount it entirely. I got several reading lists from some military colleges from an army major eacquaintance a few years back. I read some of the entries and quickly concluded that the behavior of the U.S. military has nothing in common with their purported reading list.
One of the books I’m now reading is A Savage War of Peace, the classic on the Algerian insurgency, purportedly on the reading lists of all the U.S. P-T-B (powers-that-be). U.S.ians obviously learned nothing from it. And most revealing, many more French military pooh bahs resigned over French Algerian policy than you would ever observe chicken shit U.S. military resigning over wrong headed U.S. policy.
Gee, I thought we were there to build a narco-state (or two).
If your goal is to destroy Al Qaeda and the Taleban stand in the way, like a big brother protecting little AQ, then how do you complete your plans? Helping Pakistanis fight the Taleban is also important as they have been terrorizing the eastern part of that country. The drug trade and money laundering is also involved.
Lessee now, where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah, and that one turned out so well.
You are delusional. The Taliban (re Pashtuns) are U.S. enemies only because the U.S. is occupying their country. If the U.S. got out, they would stop killing U.S.ians.
If you hadn’t noticed, the U.S. has lost interest completely in AQ which is a shadow of it’s former self. Not worth a shit hill of beans to fight them, let alone spending billions/month. Insanity.
Talk about painting with a broad brush. Amazing. If I were a casual passerby and read about American foreign policy on this blog I would have to think you were all Taleban supporters and enemies of America. No wonder Republicans win so many campaigns attacking the loyalty and intelligence of Liberals.
Answered you before I saw your post. See my 46.
Why do you think I’m a Taliban supporter just because I think U.S. policy to eradicate them is stupid?
Oh, puhleese, spare me that bullshit. That’s copied right out of some troll’s primer.
How is it particularly ‘hawkish’ to help Pakistan fend off terrorists and protect their nuclear weapons? How is it ‘hawkish’ to go after Al Qaeda?
We need some sort of directory to keep track of all the trolls these days.
Having fun. Don’t interrupt my petty pleasures. *g*
Are Pak’s nukes vulnerable? If u think so, plz link to evidence.
bmaz 86ed our latest nasty troll this afternoon.
Sorry, I don’t get your allusion. What are you saying?
How so?
Link?
Now does it sound familiar? Right out of General Westmoreland’s mouth.
Govt hamlets, My Lai, Sung Rat, Khe Sanh, Mekong…
Your note for the record is duly noted.
How the heck was I supposed to provide evidence for you until I knew what type of evidence you wanted?
How do you feel about accepting that we ended the bulk of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq under the direction of Petraeus and that his priority was to protect the population and separate it from the foreign element of the insurgency? That he was following the precepts of Kilcullen and that Kilcullen insists that hearts and minds of the population is the decisive factor?
Do you think there’s any evidentiary value in the fact that Petraeus was put in charge of the Afghanistan war?. Any evidentiary value in the replacement of the General who was in charge of the campaign that stressed fighting and bombing to support that fighting?
I agree they fight us because we’re there and since they don’t seem as eager to go international as AQ they wouldn’t be fighting us if we left.
I think the word you’re looking for isn’t “U.S.ians”, but Americans.
In fact I have not noticed that we (not some foreign country named “the U.S.”) have lost interest in AQ.
How do you know it’s a ’shadow of it’s former self’? Intelligence information on it’s size and capability would be interesting to hear, but I don’t have access to that. Do you?
If it’s not worth a “shit hill of beans”, then I guess you won’t mind if they attack us somewhere and the Dems take ALL the blame? Your POV is entirely irresponsible.
The ad hominems don’t add to your argument.
The IG Report Delay May Actually Be a Good Sign
He makes his appearance at 39. bmaz at 45 and it goes from there.
It’s just an observation of what Repubs have actually done in the past. When they hear that kind of talk they knee-jerk react with SuperPatriotism garbage. Calling it b.s. doesn’t mean they haven’t used it and succeeded.
Remember when they morphed our candidate’s face into bin Laden’s? They don’t need any serious excuse to do that, but when there’s any language they can point to, then they jump at the opportunity.
And I can see George with his cigar.
Nice try.
Well, I’d note that violence in Iraq is still at outstanding levels, much higher than when Saddam Hussein was in charge (no, asshole, I don’t support SH, but it seems like doing better than him should be the lowest common denomenator for the U.S., but somehow the U.S. manages to miss the goal every time).
Killcullen is a jerk, emphasis on the first syllable of his name. I learned everything he knows about counterinsurgencies in a couple of amazon searches. But I also learned that most coins fail, which seems beyond Kill’s frame of reference.
Just because there is coin theory exists, doesn’t mean the U.S. has to do it.
Aaaah, Vietnam. Did the S. Vietnamese have nukes? Did the N. Vietnamese run an international drug trade? Did the N. Vietnamese or their best buddies attack America?
There are differences and if you don’t get that, then you’re just living in fantasy land.
Keep it real.
asshole?
***gentle reminder***
disagree with the message – do not attack the messenger
She’s probably right to call me that, I was just wondering what triggered it.
You’re the one doing the association. I was commenting on a statement you made. There are similarities with VN and I’ll be the last to make a straight comparison. That said, I firmly believe we cannot prevail in a guerrilla war in Afghanistan. No conventional army has yet done so and I don’t see us being the first.
Oh, really, I live in Manhattan. Do you? Are you a scardy cat that AQ is out to getcha?
Can’t link to sources about AQ being a shadow of its former self cause I don’t keep track of things that are obvious.
Re: U.S.ians vs. Americans. All people who live on teh N. & S. continents in the western hemisphere are Americans, but doubt they would want to be associated with U.S. policy.
Nor would they like being called Americans.
Oh, yeah, sorry. No need to point out the obvious.
So the drunk at the party thought if only he made his point one more time and a little bit louder, surely everyone will understand. Kinda like U.S. policy in Afghanistan, Iraq, u name it.
Looks like the dude came unhinged. Got in bmaz’s face and double dared him. Ooopsie. Not the brightest bulb in the chandelier.
OT
WTF is going on in Honduras?
I’m waiting to see who takes the reins. US is supporting the ousted prez so we’ll have to wait and see. Leftism is becoming contagious in the south so let’s hope it’s not the uberreichwingers taking over.
It’s been fun ladies and germs but time to leap into my tree.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
Took a bit of time but here are some drawn from memory references–
I read lots of stuff at http://www.tomdispatch.com–Tom Engelhardt does and presents lots of good,worthy to read stuff there.
An article at tomdispatch touched on a guy named Pepe Escobar and a article Escobar had titled ‘Pipeistan’ which leads to http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com and an article found there titled ‘Afghanistan–The Good War?’dated March,25,2009 which leads to http://www.uncommonthought.com and an entry found there titled ‘Power Play?’ dated March 23,2004. It is this ‘Power Play’ entry that supports the premise that WashingtonDC and the Taliban were bargaining during the Bill Clinton WH years which ran into difficulty in 1998 which then was picked up again and by the Bush/Cheney WH during 2000-2001 years–the idea being to put the American military into Afghanistan prior to 9/11/2001.
Color me confused.
Me too until somebody takes up the reins of power and isn’t shot or thrown out.
Agree that Clinton Admin was negoitating with Taliban, but dont know that that has to do with everything that followed.
OK. Late & tired. Cashing in my chips. Gnite all & be well.
are you crazy enough to never vote for Democratic warmongers, ever again?
if so , congratulations, and here’s to hope, because when enough people realize that voting (D) is a vote against peace, social justice and the environment the political landscape will be at a tipping point.
I provided a map–you will have to do the driving and sight seeing yourself. The idea of going into Afghanistan was forming up before 9/11/01.
Late to this one. Thanks Siun. I had noted a few articles while googling about that McCrystal was getting props for being more careful in Afghanistan. Sounded too good to be true. Yes, energy for pr perhaps?
I saw Gen. Mullen on Cspan today talking about the importance of not releasing photos of torture, and implying dissidents of military policy in this country were making it hard for them. This said grimly and severely. They are the ones putting troops and civilians in harm’s way, but that old chestnut about criticizing the conduct and even existence of the war is betrayal of the troops. Double bind crazymaking jingoistic knot-making.
Your heartbreaking videos of the children especially bring a level of reality one thinks one carries, but not by a long shot. Even not understanding the language we understand the outrage and horrifying pain of these traumatized people. No we don’t, can’t understand, but we get a small taste of it from our safe computers.
Thanks once again for consciousness raising.
You didn’t stick to script.
And… when did I stop beating my wife?
Re your questions, they are rhetorical, nu? You don’t really expect to be convinced by a comment here, do you?
Hmmm… anything to do with massive population transfers and over a million refugees fleeing? Anything to do with 100,000s killed, and miles of walls in Baghdad? But now Iraq has been made peaceful… oh yeah, except for all the violence. From NY Times article, 7 Bombs Strike in Iraq as Violence Spreads (6/25):
You must think we are fools.
Ricks was seriously avoiding discussing McCrystal at all at that salon, even said something negative about the journalist, Gareth Porter, who was spotlighting McCrystal negatively in other websites. Since Fiasco (which I never read but heard so much positive stuff about) it seems Ricks maybe has been drinking a lot more military kool-aid? Watched him a bit on Charlie Rose recently. Seems like Charlie hitting the kool-aid, too.
Mullah Mustafa said his six-year old son and his ten-year old brother were killed in the air strike.
Mustafa warns that such bombings that target non-combatants will drive the support of the people towards the militants.
Something must have been lost in translation… I doubt his first concern in such a situation would be the killers of his little son and brother losing “the support of the people”?
Read what I was saying in the context of the assertion made by ecahnomics that I was discussing. That statement was not a defense of the war, or a discussion of it’s course and effects.
If you pull it out alone and read it to be some endousement of the war, then I will have doubts about your wisdom.