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	<title>Comments on: Early Morning Swim</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/</link>
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		<title>By: leliorisen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924337</link>
		<dc:creator>leliorisen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924337</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I am beyond disgusted at the capitulation of the glbt community. That the DNC could raise a million and have to face only a small protest tells you more about the leaderless glbt community than one really needs to know.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Weren’t we told that attendees would be outted? Weren’t we told we would hear about the names of those showing up? Weren’t we told it would be a large protest?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;To make matters worse, the most vile anti-gay comments I have seen on the comments section of some blogs (check out Ben Smith’s Politico column, for example) come from African-American straight Democrats, who are incensed that gays have the audacity to challenge Obama. As if there are no African-American members of the glbt community who might be affected, as well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The reason that the Dems no they can give it to the glbt community is that they know we have no leaders and will take it.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I, for one, have really had it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am beyond disgusted at the capitulation of the glbt community. That the DNC could raise a million and have to face only a small protest tells you more about the leaderless glbt community than one really needs to know.</p>
<p>Weren’t we told that attendees would be outted? Weren’t we told we would hear about the names of those showing up? Weren’t we told it would be a large protest?</p>
<p>To make matters worse, the most vile anti-gay comments I have seen on the comments section of some blogs (check out Ben Smith’s Politico column, for example) come from African-American straight Democrats, who are incensed that gays have the audacity to challenge Obama. As if there are no African-American members of the glbt community who might be affected, as well.</p>
<p>The reason that the Dems no they can give it to the glbt community is that they know we have no leaders and will take it.</p>
<p>I, for one, have really had it.</p>
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		<title>By: RevBev</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924292</link>
		<dc:creator>RevBev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924292</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Something got lost in translation….sort of like the anti-death penalty bumper sticker:…Love your neighbors does NOT mean kill ‘em.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something got lost in translation….sort of like the anti-death penalty bumper sticker:…Love your neighbors does NOT mean kill ‘em.</p>
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		<title>By: Peterr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924290</link>
		<dc:creator>Peterr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924290</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Poorly, I’m afraid.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(The power went out here right after I posted my comment, and didn’t come back until just now.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sufilizard pretty much hits it on the head, as does RevBev. The Old Testament has a very strong pacifistic/non-violent/love your neighbor bent to it. One of my favorite passages is from Isaiah where the prophet has a vision of the end of history as one grand feast. All the best food, all the best wine, and at which ALL people are welcome. Not just the Jews, not just the “perfect,” not just the folks who are nice, but everyone.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Imagine Rush Limbaugh dancing with Hilary Clinton, or Sean Hannity and John Aravosis. Now THAT would be a miracle.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(Yes, there are also some very violent episodes in the Hebrew Scriptures as well — many of which take on a different meaning if you read the whole story.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But back to your question. It’s very hard to read the Sermon on the Mount and listen to the parables of Jesus and come to a conclusion that justifies violence as a religious act. Defensive protective acts, perhaps; offensive preemptive “beat the living daylights outta your enemies and torture your prisoners”, not so much.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;After all, in Luke’s gospel Jesus said that his mission was to “proclaim liberty to the captives,” not to torture them until they told him where the Romans kept their weapons of mass destruction.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poorly, I’m afraid.</p>
<p>(The power went out here right after I posted my comment, and didn’t come back until just now.)</p>
<p>Sufilizard pretty much hits it on the head, as does RevBev. The Old Testament has a very strong pacifistic/non-violent/love your neighbor bent to it. One of my favorite passages is from Isaiah where the prophet has a vision of the end of history as one grand feast. All the best food, all the best wine, and at which ALL people are welcome. Not just the Jews, not just the “perfect,” not just the folks who are nice, but everyone.</p>
<p>Imagine Rush Limbaugh dancing with Hilary Clinton, or Sean Hannity and John Aravosis. Now THAT would be a miracle.</p>
<p>(Yes, there are also some very violent episodes in the Hebrew Scriptures as well — many of which take on a different meaning if you read the whole story.)</p>
<p>But back to your question. It’s very hard to read the Sermon on the Mount and listen to the parables of Jesus and come to a conclusion that justifies violence as a religious act. Defensive protective acts, perhaps; offensive preemptive “beat the living daylights outta your enemies and torture your prisoners”, not so much.</p>
<p>After all, in Luke’s gospel Jesus said that his mission was to “proclaim liberty to the captives,” not to torture them until they told him where the Romans kept their weapons of mass destruction.</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924285</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924285</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I see it as a divided Church with numerous small congregations throughout the region that fought the Church.  The destruction of their texts as heresy I see as the tolling of the bell.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see it as a divided Church with numerous small congregations throughout the region that fought the Church.  The destruction of their texts as heresy I see as the tolling of the bell.</p>
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		<title>By: Sufilizard2</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924284</link>
		<dc:creator>Sufilizard2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924284</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Actually the early church was as divided, probably more divided, as the church today. Nag Hamadi is only one good example of the gnostic movement, but early Christians were all over the place theologically. The first couple of generations were generally pacifist though. Many Christians were thrown to the lions because they refused to serve in the Roman army.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course once Constantine co-opted the faith things changed dramatically.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the early church was as divided, probably more divided, as the church today. Nag Hamadi is only one good example of the gnostic movement, but early Christians were all over the place theologically. The first couple of generations were generally pacifist though. Many Christians were thrown to the lions because they refused to serve in the Roman army.</p>
<p>Of course once Constantine co-opted the faith things changed dramatically.</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924283</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924283</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;for you will heap burning coals on his head&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Heap?  Was that a typo?  Sounds like a rather scorching experience.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>for you will heap burning coals on his head</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Heap?  Was that a typo?  Sounds like a rather scorching experience.</p>
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		<title>By: SouthernDragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924282</link>
		<dc:creator>SouthernDragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924282</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The difference in the books in the New Testament and the texts found at Nag Hamadi and a few other is notable.  The early Church was not about to promulgate views contrary to an authoritarian patriarchal world view.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference in the books in the New Testament and the texts found at Nag Hamadi and a few other is notable.  The early Church was not about to promulgate views contrary to an authoritarian patriarchal world view.</p>
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		<title>By: RevBev</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924281</link>
		<dc:creator>RevBev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924281</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Right….much of the whole call for social justice is the prophetic message of the Old Testament….a general focus on the community and our obligations.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right….much of the whole call for social justice is the prophetic message of the Old Testament….a general focus on the community and our obligations.</p>
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		<title>By: Sufilizard2</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924279</link>
		<dc:creator>Sufilizard2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924279</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;As far as the Old Testament goes, even that isn’t all smiting and vengeance. There are also plenty of appeals for peace and justice.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;“If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you.” (Prov. 25:21,22), or “Seek peace and pursue it” (Ps. 34:14).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And who could forget the classic, often quoted via MLK - “But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!” (Amos 5:24)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as the Old Testament goes, even that isn’t all smiting and vengeance. There are also plenty of appeals for peace and justice.</p>
<blockquote><p>“If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you.” (Prov. 25:21,22), or “Seek peace and pursue it” (Ps. 34:14).</p>
<p>And who could forget the classic, often quoted via MLK &#8211; “But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!” (Amos 5:24)</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Beerfart Liberal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924276</link>
		<dc:creator>Beerfart Liberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/26/early-morning-swim-159/#comment-1924276</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;“Why would I want to follow a God who is dumber, crueler, and more mean spirited than I am.”&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;’cause he can do cool tricks ?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>“Why would I want to follow a God who is dumber, crueler, and more mean spirited than I am.”</em></p>
<p>’cause he can do cool tricks ?</p>
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