God and guns were part of the foundation of this country,” Mr. Pagano, 49, said Wednesday in the small brick Assembly of God church, where a large wooden cross hung over the altar and two American flags jutted from side walls. “I don’t see any contradiction in this. Not every Christian denomination is pacifist.

Can’t come up with a response to that.

Mornin’, BT

Yep, Jenny Sanford will be just fine. How can one go wrong with a ton of money and the Lord.

Bimbos marry old men for money. Male Rethugs marry young women for money. Ergo, Rethugs are bimbos. Yeppurs, I’m the master of the obvious.

Sean Hannity, pallin’ around with terrorists.

that’s a great idea bt!

progressives should address any discussion about hannity to include;

“the man supports terrorists, we know this as a fact so how can you take that man seriously when he claims he is some kind of patriot?…when that person gives advice you know it is not going to be in the best interest of our country, he pals around with terrorists and thinks they are wonderful people”

tee hee

Not every Christian denomination is pacifist.

Can’t come up with a response to that.

I wish I was there when he said that

my answer would be;

“nor are all christian denominations supporters of christ and his teachings, though they make believe, they are the antithesis of christ”

I’d have to guess the the Assembly of God figures pacifism in Christianity died on the cross.

Oh yes she did.

Same song, second verse.

That npr photo project is interesting…….but there’s been precious little (if any) identification since I first saw it at Digby’s yesterday. Guess nobody in the lobbying industry is gonna snitch on their brothers and sisters.

Can’t you just hear the reich wing cranking up the wind machine with, “How *dare* they identify people who’re just goin’ about their jobs!”

Yeppurs, I’m the master of the obvious.

Welcome to The Order!

surprisingly, it’s rather small.

not so surprisingly, there are no R’s.

SD, I had a visit with Angela, and I do believe I will have a roomie on Tuesday…I am trying to prepare to be a good hostess.

Nice post. I need someone to decode the religious wingnut statements.

I’ve been spending most of my waking hours outside, now that the weather is compatible. When I came inside around 10 last night & saw the fuss about Jackson & Fawcett, I was really glad I wasn’t around earlier.

morning peterr!

I’d especially like to know what you would say to a pastor who actually said “Not every Christian denomination is pacifist.”

bizarre statement that, how would you react?

Oh, geez, I’d go nuts. Once I decide yes I want ‘em right now.

Methinks “God” and “guns” are synonymous for the authoritarian types.

I like anticipation…plus, your house must be neater than mine…Arghh. Really, I am coordinating with the owner.

Morning all, I really don’t understand why many of these people are called Christians when all they are quoting is old testament stuff. Why aren’t they called biblists?

I’d be willing to bet sermons at that “church” are all about the Old Testament. Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord and all that stuff.

I wanted to mention on attaturk’s thread downstairs the fact that they demonize sex as the only method for controlling people

if it weren’t sex they would demonize food or sleeping, they need to make us feel like we are guilty and need them for our salvation

it is my belief the concervative movement would have withered away had it not been for aids

your house must be neater than mine

ROFLMAO

Everything in my house is covered with cat hair. Trying to control it is about the best I can do. Plus I am definitely not a neat freak.

Everything has its place but damned if I know where it is.

RE: Not all Christian churches are pacifists. As best I recall (RevBev?), the smiting and afflicting and tormenting was an accounting of the Old Testament God (Book of Revelation notwithstanding). Pre-Christ, in other words. Wonder how this dude explains away the Sermon on the Mount and the theology of peace that permeates the New Testament.

The Lord’s, it says. Not mine/ours. They miss that part

The Old Testes.

That’s because they’re only to the “G’s” in “My Big Alphabet Book.”

I grew up a Protestant and now consider myself an agnostic. At some point, the Old Testiment made me conclude, “Why would I want to follow a God who is dumber, crueler, and more mean spirited than I am.”

A commenter named Kama over at TBogg’s yesterday used the term CINO – Christians in Name Only.
Sounds about right. :-(

I grew up exposed to the Southern Methodists and Episcopalians. By the time I came out of Nam I was looking for something better.

Small wonder!!

I found the same apiphane to tell me the god in my religion is not the god of the world,

I then concluded god hates religion but doesn’t mind the religious though he/she might mind the teachings

anyway, I have since come to the conclusion that the big bang was god

Just like in Salem, MA in the 1600’s. We’ve come a long way since then, it would seem.

Oh, see? Big bang might have been a colossal cosmic gun. Full circle?

The Old Testes.

which have virtually no trade-in value.

don’t ask….

Left yer snark tag off. *g*

Who are the We in “we’ve”.

Wouldn’t think of it. I’ve read that some castrati kept their jewels in a jar.

cambodian red

Thai stick.

Good question, that. Our priest refers to “bibleolotry” to describe how they focus on the book and what they cherry pick from it to support a mainly political position rather than focusing on the message of the New Testament.

You know I never saw that till I got home.

That’s sort of the reason I said agnostic. To come to any conclusion seems to require a “leap of faith”. Big bang or chance don’t answer much more about why and what was before than the guy with a long white beard.

Perfect. Cherry-pickin’-Christians. CPCs.

On another topic, yesterday the Minnesota Supreme Court handed down a you’re-a-bad-boy hand slap to a county attorney. I mention this only because it underscores the possibility that the MNSC members are still alive, which has been called into question given their disappearance re Franken/Coleman. Hope abounds! (Or not.)

My suggestion for a master’s thesis in religion: go thru the OT, NT, Koran, sentence by sentence, and make a tick in one of two columns: violent/nonviolent. Then compare the results. That avoids cherry picking.

Everyone must believe in something
I believe I’ll go fishing

Thoreau

Caught a flight to Bangkok every now and again. Wasn’t tied to sticks, though.

Closest I got was Sa Dec

Not every Christian denomination is pacifist.

Nope, just the ones that, you know, follow the teachings of Christ (sadly a minority).

Otherwise, we have an ensemble Judge Crater situation.

It works for me. I think I saw his bumper sticker.

Before my son became a wingnut, before he lost his mind, he once said: What does Christianity have to do with Christ anyhow?

The thing abou…….

I’m sorry. I can’t finish. I’m just overcome with grief at yesterday’s news.

The Magic are not going to re-sign Hedo Turkoglu.

sniff.

You can’t really impugn Hannity’s patriotism. After all the guy underwent a waterboarding to raise money for the troops’ families.

wait.

what?

oh.

nevermind.

yup. he’s a scumbucket alright.

Christy has a new post up…

“Why would I want to follow a God who is dumber, crueler, and more mean spirited than I am.”

’cause he can do cool tricks ?

As far as the Old Testament goes, even that isn’t all smiting and vengeance. There are also plenty of appeals for peace and justice.

“If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; for you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you.” (Prov. 25:21,22), or “Seek peace and pursue it” (Ps. 34:14).

And who could forget the classic, often quoted via MLK – “But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!” (Amos 5:24)

Right….much of the whole call for social justice is the prophetic message of the Old Testament….a general focus on the community and our obligations.

The difference in the books in the New Testament and the texts found at Nag Hamadi and a few other is notable. The early Church was not about to promulgate views contrary to an authoritarian patriarchal world view.

for you will heap burning coals on his head

Heap? Was that a typo? Sounds like a rather scorching experience.

Actually the early church was as divided, probably more divided, as the church today. Nag Hamadi is only one good example of the gnostic movement, but early Christians were all over the place theologically. The first couple of generations were generally pacifist though. Many Christians were thrown to the lions because they refused to serve in the Roman army.

Of course once Constantine co-opted the faith things changed dramatically.

I see it as a divided Church with numerous small congregations throughout the region that fought the Church. The destruction of their texts as heresy I see as the tolling of the bell.

Poorly, I’m afraid.

(The power went out here right after I posted my comment, and didn’t come back until just now.)

Sufilizard pretty much hits it on the head, as does RevBev. The Old Testament has a very strong pacifistic/non-violent/love your neighbor bent to it. One of my favorite passages is from Isaiah where the prophet has a vision of the end of history as one grand feast. All the best food, all the best wine, and at which ALL people are welcome. Not just the Jews, not just the “perfect,” not just the folks who are nice, but everyone.

Imagine Rush Limbaugh dancing with Hilary Clinton, or Sean Hannity and John Aravosis. Now THAT would be a miracle.

(Yes, there are also some very violent episodes in the Hebrew Scriptures as well — many of which take on a different meaning if you read the whole story.)

But back to your question. It’s very hard to read the Sermon on the Mount and listen to the parables of Jesus and come to a conclusion that justifies violence as a religious act. Defensive protective acts, perhaps; offensive preemptive “beat the living daylights outta your enemies and torture your prisoners”, not so much.

After all, in Luke’s gospel Jesus said that his mission was to “proclaim liberty to the captives,” not to torture them until they told him where the Romans kept their weapons of mass destruction.

Something got lost in translation….sort of like the anti-death penalty bumper sticker:…Love your neighbors does NOT mean kill ‘em.

I am beyond disgusted at the capitulation of the glbt community. That the DNC could raise a million and have to face only a small protest tells you more about the leaderless glbt community than one really needs to know.

Weren’t we told that attendees would be outted? Weren’t we told we would hear about the names of those showing up? Weren’t we told it would be a large protest?

To make matters worse, the most vile anti-gay comments I have seen on the comments section of some blogs (check out Ben Smith’s Politico column, for example) come from African-American straight Democrats, who are incensed that gays have the audacity to challenge Obama. As if there are no African-American members of the glbt community who might be affected, as well.

The reason that the Dems no they can give it to the glbt community is that they know we have no leaders and will take it.

I, for one, have really had it.