Hiya ES.

ES Busted evening all!

Busted!

On the streets of Manhattan you can buy a poster of the iconic Obama image (the red & blue one) with the O in HOPE changed to a Y.

Good evening ES. One of those rare occassions when I’m still awake at this hour.

Hi nahant..)

no hope here…… still need more movement on health coverage……

ES!

Lurve me CSN and this song is one of their best!!

Good evening, eCHan.. I thought about copyrighting HØPE. But I know nothing about that sort of thing. And I would prefer we prevail..and make it temporary..)

Good evening Mac master. *bows*

SINGLE PAYER!! Amend the Constitution and make health Care a right for all citizens!! Health Care for profit cost lives! How do you measure that in dollars??
Hope you are feeling OK Katy.

Pipe down, you. I’m listening to some CSN.

falling asleep on the sofa…. going to pickup everything and go to bed….

Much much more. I don’t even know what to fight for on healthcare anymore. it just seems like they are all writing their victory speeches for passing anything right now.

As I typed earlier in the DADT thread, Obama is an incrementalist. He’ll repeal the DON’T this year, the ASK next year, etc. At the end of 4 years, it’ll be gone.

We have no choice but to push him, but I’m not optimistic about the outcome.

Rest well

G’nite (((katymine))).

Nor am I.

But we do have to push. Jane’s work on the supplemental really helped my spirit a great deal. Wish I would not have been so busy with other things at the time.

But, we who pay such close attention owe it to ourselves to keep pushing. especially when Dr. Obama Jeckle keeps turning into cousin Mr. Cheney Hyde on so damn many issues.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall when Barack & Rahm sit down privately and discuss the polling numbers on what is now “teh public option” – nearly 75% of the country thinks ‘it’s (what ever ‘it’ is) a pretty damned good idea.
Either they need to tamp it down or let fly on Senate Democrats LBJ-style.
I am not placing bets on it.

nite katymine

Good night fair lady, my best to you.

My pink-diaper Jewish contractor is back at work on my house and we have interesting political discussions. He thinks that if Obama does not act conservatively he’ll be dead. Partly a function of his color, but not totally. My contractor thinks that the powers-that-be play hardball with their opponents, regardless of skin color. With a black, it’s just easier to find someone to do their dirty work.

It’s that fooking Rahm Emmanuel.
The guy is bad news.

Obama isn’t throwing me too many surprises, some, especially on the transparancy issue but that little fucker Emmanuel is delivering as promised.

Feeling fine…… tomorrow is my chemo day at Mayo….. thankfully my appointment is 9:45am….. of course that means it will be later when I get home….. they will probably have to de-clot my IV Port….. my platelets were really elevated (causes clotting) and who knows what my H&H levels are which will determine if I need blood…. one day Elmore and I were there until after 6pm…… receiving two units of blood…..

No side effects from chemo, what bothers me is the pre-meds – one is benedryl IV which just puts me to sleep and that is why I need a ride to and from my treatments… ok getting off butt and getting to bed….

good night everyone

Read my 21 and tell me what you think. If you think the way my contractor does, the conversation between Obama & Rahm is: Shit, if I don’t do what they want, I’m toast.

Not an unreasonable concern, imo. But he asked for the job.. he knows what should be done.. or at least I used to sort of think he did… even when he lost my vote.

If he’s operating on fear of that nature.. we are all so screwed.

I am not precluding the idea.
I am not in a position to evaluate the political rigors of the executive. I have no idea what it must be like.

Yup.. Rahm reminds me of the first time I was fishing as a little kid and reeled in a snake.

I think my contractor is too obsessed on this topic, but I can’t dismiss his proposition. I’ll keep it in mind and collect evidence for & against.

Bob Casey sure knows where his bread is buttered. He’s getting a $2500 voucher for a new motorcycle inserted into that Cash for Clunkers thing. Looks like he wants to keep that Harley factory in York up and running.

Never have understood the appeal of hunting or fishing. So much time and so little to show for it. (Love to be the recipient of proceeds of both.) My hunting friend tells me it’s zen for him. That really underlines my lack of understanding as zen is a complete mystery. I tried meditating for quite awhile, thinking that there must be a breakthrough. Gave up after about 6 months.

Tough to find a lot of that evidence. (JFK)

However it’s one of the only reasons which would make any sense to me as to why he immediately told the CIA no matter what they would not face prosecutions or serious scrutiny for that matter.

Best to you (((Katy)))!
Sleep well (:>))

What’s the price of a new Harley these days?

P.S. I bought a pair of Harley-Davidson sunglasses for $5 (at the checkout counter of a discount store) as a hoot. They stayed in a drawer for years. Then I started bicyling all over the place and remember the sunglasses. They are the BEST!

Yeah, that’s the kind of evidence I mean. Indirect. Explanations for which Lee’s (contractor) hypothesis works better than others. I hadn’t thought of CIA torture non-prosecutions in that light, so thanks for pointing it out.

I think that’s one big difference.. pure meditation requires to much down time. At least when i am in the woods or on the water.. I am doing something.

And for many years we ate so much fresh fish and wild game.. eating beef or pork was a very special occasion. We simply could not give all the fish and game away to friends and family.. we gave it to strangers too.

Depends on the Harley, the most expensive is the Triglide, for around $30,000, the cheapest would be the 883 Sportster, for around $6,000.

Seems like Harley could cut their prices in half and still be zillionaires.

Just googled HD sunglasses. The current model isn’t as good as mine, though is funkier looking. Mine have big round lenses that really wrap, and the lenses are really clear.

I’m sticking with the supposition that Sanford was swinging partners with Sen. Ensign and is crushed that the party is over.

-G

It fell apart when it left vegas.

Heh. Too bad you don’t live near me. I get venison from my hunter friend, and another hunter wants to do so on my property but I could eat more. And I don’t know any fishers.

The potential second hunter is the bee keeper who’s making me a hive. He sez he hunts squirrel, rabbits, possum, etc., and never buys meat in the store. Like my other hunter friend, his girlfriend is a vegetarian.

Hey ES.

-G

Wow… very clunky.. and they weigh a pound! I kind of like the look. Could never buy SG’s without trying them on first.

Just experimented with the HD website. Takes you on an eride. Very cute.

Probably not, as far as cruisers go, their prices are actually pretty competitive, and their build quality is first rate.

I used to work security at a college and one of the part time officers was friends with the local police and they’d call him when someone hit a deer.

He’d bring deer steaks to the pub and the cook would set up the security department with a dinner at midnight.

Good times.

-G

Nice to see you Gregg.. you been terrorizing any of those northeastern Larouche’s or Libertarians? /s

So I once went into the hardware store with my sunglasses pushed up on my hair. The check out clerk wanted to know if I drove a Harley (I’m a dumpy blond female senior citizen). You can’t see in the picture, but on the earpiece it actually has Harley Davidson written out. I laughed a lot and said that they were great sunglasses to use on a pedal bicycle too.

Gnite y’all.

A very small exclusive restaurant.. I made friends with the owners over a long late meal one night. venison came up in conversation… I brought him a hind quarter the next day and he made and sold it as chile a couple days later. I don’t know if it was legal at the time, but i know at least one U.S. Senator ate it.

I get somewhere between zero and 3 dead deer on my roadfront/year. But I don’t butcher and I usually discover them too late. But once my hunter friend discovered a road kill doe in his driveway that was still warm, and he does his own butchery, so he did so.

Good night big guy.

I had an in-law who was a highway patrolman, and a man called in to see if there were any roadkill deer. They were bugged by his phone calls (he wasn’t sufficiently subservient or something, I don’t know) so when a deer got really just smeared all over the road, this in-law finally called the man and told him he could have it.
…Bless his heart.

I’m actually reading a book about William Loeb, the now dead publisher of the Manchester Union Leader.

Who the Hell Is William Loeb.

Quite the read.

-G

Part of the exchange plan is that I make chili from some of the ground venison my friend gives me, and he gets a 2-person serving in return. This year things went awry and he did not deliver the ground venison until April. So even though it’s a winter dish, I made it anyhow. It’ll keep in the freezer until late this year.

Road apples!

-G

I love motorcycles.. owned several over the years. I just like riding them, not tinkering and detailing them. Guess it’s why I never wanted a real fancy Harley.

My sisters boyfriend is quite the hunter. He’s got a freezer full. He even does the bow hunting.

Well, gotta get going. Night all and nice to have seen you all.

-G

Deer beer chile is hard to beat. Trick is to use a warm can or bottle of beer.. never been refrigerated.

Hi ES and everyone.

Nite Busted..

Goodnight G-

Wigwam, we meet at a decent hour..)

You would think that Obama has considered that before hand. But, then, he wouldn’t have run if he had realized how nasty life at the top really is. Fork. Fork. Fork. I was born a scorpio but have morphed into a cynic.

Road apples!

Don’t ya mean ROAD PIZZA. There is a cookbook just for road pizza!

My worst experience was many years ago, maybe 25. A woman diver hit a deer on the road near my house. Pre-cell phone, she parked in my driveway and asked to use to the phone to call the state police (they patrol my town), as she hadn’t killed the deer, only injured it, and wanted them to do a mercy killing. It took the police over half an hour to arrive, and meanwhile, after dark with a flashlight, we found it. The cop came, inspected her car (which wasn’t damaged much) as though she’d done something wrong. Then we told him where the deer was, across the road in a row of thickets along an old stone wall that separates my property from a house. We 3 went to the spot, the cop got out a handgun and proceeded to start pumping lead into a deer that was still mobile. Took him several shots as the deer limped in the direction of the front door of the house. Now mind you, this was after dark, and the cop hadn’t warned the neighbors what was going on. All the while I was thinking they would open the door to see what was going on and one of his wild shots would hit a person. He finally hit the deer, and the neighbor never emerged, but I thought his behavior completely irresponsible.

eCahn you’re really in luck there.
I’ve had a couple servings of venison stew and it was wonderful.

Anyone here own a flip camera? Am trying to decide if I need the original version which also has an underwater case for shooting on kayak floats etc. Or if I should get the new HD model which could never get close to water.

I was just over at msnbc reading (thru a link to newsweek) an interview with Robt. Bork.

zOMG I disagree with almost every thing that that man (Mr. Bork) says, but can we trade him for Thomas? (this is even after Assoc. Justice Mr. Thomas made what could be considered a principled (i think wrong!) dissent). At least Bork would have backed up any argument with logic and arguably correct legal acumen

please, talk me down!

Geez. I hope he’s not still on the force.

This too shall pass.

In this case, and with that particular bent, maybe we’re better off that there’s no mind at work in that seat. Feeding and nurturing Nino’s insanity isn’t a bug. It really is a feature.

When I was young, my first husband & I owned a low level Honda, which we traveled quite a bit on. Been there, done that, no interest in ever doing it again, especially after seeing a motorcyle accident or two.

Now that I bicycle, they are my pet peeve, especially the ones with no muffler. (How can they get away with that?) And the gangs of scores on the road.

Once one with no muffler passed me but got stopped a mile up the road where the county fair is, so I passed him. While doing so I told him that for his next birthday he should ask for a muffler. When the traffic cleared and he passed me again, he had his noise revenge.

I made a new chili recipe this year which had cumin seeds in it. Fabulous.

OM Ghad That is so sazen of you!

He could never hunt with me.. and wouldn’t last long in many hunting clubs either.

I have no idea. I should have gotten his name & badge number and reported it. Liver & loin as the butcher sez.

I would love see you traveling in the world. A day with eCAHNomics would be entertaining and informative. One little old lady to another.

The thing is, with the wingnuts, when you think it can’t get any worse, it always get a lot worse.

Us little old ladies have secret lives, n’est pas?

ouch and lol. i was amused this was one of the few decisions he went out on his own!

(btw, i always enjoy ur thoughts/comments here newtonusr)
-Bob in Indiana

A year ago, Teddy would suggest our next D president should seriously consider increasing the size of the court so we could balance it out a little with choice additional chairs. I thought it was a wonderful idea at the time. But with this Pres and this ultra feckless senate now… not so much.

wee wee.

My secret life is mostly interior.

Es is a small town of 2k with over twenty thousand beds for tourists. And the Ozarks are probably the best riding in the country in addition to the north west. Anyway, the loud mufflers are a huge bone of contention, but their numbers and dollars are so large they still have that freedom. I like the sound of the motor, not the pipe myself.

ES, haven’t seen such an idea since FDR! lol.
Ecahn, I have a nearly limitless imagination for getting worse, but it’s often challenged. I do my damnedest to say to myself that those who disagree with me still love this country, but sometimes I can’t believe those words.

back atcha, bob.
Aside from messing with Roe, I’m for an informed and non-idealogical bench. The ‘we need a Liberal for Souter’s seat’ disturbs me greatly, as it leads to more intense partisan calls as we get farther away from Plessy and Miranda and Brown.

Bork is smart, and whack IMO. More dangerous than Scalia and agenda-driven in a multi-dimensional way that Thomas could only dream of being.

But I don’t know how we could break the cycle.

My 28 year old son is a wingnut. Tell me about it.

leather or velvet?

Any impression of Sotomayor? IANAL and I haven’t read much about her, but then the news coverage seems to be about her speeches, not her long record as a judge. If someone has a link to an article about the latter, I’d love to see it.

Thomas has a big chip on his shoulder but doesn’t have the courage to ask anyone to knock it off. And he graduated from Poor Me Law School.

depends.

We need a liberal.
Bork has a legitimate legal (NOT moral) argument against Roe/Griswold.
CONFLICTING OPINIONS HELD AT THE SAME TIME — My brain’s exploding.

Seriously, yes we need a replacement for Brenan or Brandeis.

Is Abe Fortas available?

I saw him on Book-TV when he wrote his memoir. Thomas is one bitter person. Wonder how people around him can stand it.

My gut tells me to worry about her. My concern is about Roe but the wingnuts will have taken care of that issue soon enough by making sure there are no clinics left to perform the procedure.

Wigwam, we meet at a decent hour..)

Indeed.

So I finally organized the blather I was posting EMTALA at Oxdown into a more coherent point and posted it at Dkos, where it wouldn’t be so repetitious.

Now I can turn to other things. Sigh.

How’s the arm?

IANAL either.
But start here and here I guess.

She has an enormous body of work, unlike Roberts, and as far as I know, doesn’t subscribe to the Unitary Executive as Alito does.

Anything in her record to tip her against Roe?

Mary.

OUCH! If there’s a clinic that needs help near me, I’ll help escort
You just made me make that decision right now.
signed,
(a man in southern Indiana)

I am not one to judge a potential judges qualifications, but the overall silence/lack of enthusiasm, aside from ridiculing the wingnuts early response to her nomination (which we know was the template response for any nomination) has been very telling to me.

Yep.

While I’ve not had time to stare them down myself, I do have three links that may be of use to you.

http://online.wsj.com/article/…..56559.html

This first one is a nice general overview, though it doesn’t delve into… well, anything, really.

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/…..d?from=rss

This goes into cyberlaw, mostly, but serves as a useful springboard for finding other cases Sotomayor has done.

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/j…..vil-cases/

Probably the best, the SCOTUSblog gives you a quick, dirty way to look at the lady and her opinions.

But this: Ending Roe will be on the Republicans dime, and it will literally be the end of their party. Even Chimpy admitted as much – he actually said that the country wasn’t ready for it.

While I think we need to keep them more than arms length from dooming it, I don’t think the realists (whatever that is) over there think they would survive it.

An excellent point, there. Dr. Tiller’s murder will not be the last act of violence we will see.

I have others voice concern. It would just fit with the reversals we have seen with O. I know she more often than not sides with corporations.

How many realists are left in the Republican Party, though? Don’t bet on logic with madmen!

So be very, very careful.

The second article is the kind of thing I was looking for. Sounds like she believes there is no discrimination, or at least not very much. As a victim of gender-based discrimination, I’d have to disagree. And I’d guess my black and gay friends would probably be on my side on that issue.

BTW, I’m sometimes the beneficiary of positive profiling (e.g. I can sass cops without fearing consequences, got out of a speeding ticket and a burn without permit ticket), and recognize every single incident for what it is. So anyone telling me there ain’t no discrimination doesn’t know that the hell they’re talking about.

From what I’ve read, Elena Kagan would have been far, far worse that Sotomayor. I’ve read some claims that she holds some Yoo-like opinions, and her performance as solicitor general seems to confirm that suspicion.

Thanks. I’ll check them out later. I need to spend some thoughtful time on the subject, which is not right now.

Well, the ones who actually look at polls.
I take your point, though.

I’m trying to remember (without resorting to teh googles) what they called it – but the dramatic (and temporary) drop in HIV rates in Uganda a few years back was largely due to women withholding sex from their husbands.
If Roe were lost, it would only be a matter of time.

Rec’d! Glad to see you are on it. It’s going to take all we have and more just not to get screwed on this, imo. As a low income person these days.. I am horrified i am going to be forced by law to have to buy privateers policies. Aside from my own interests, i still think it will be disastrous for the country if the triggers fall below middle class/ income levels. If we get triggers at all.

Arm is getting better, still quite weak.. can’t mow my yard yet… and I am really struggling with loosening up the shoulder joint. Aiming for water activity this summer… hope to start any day now.

Hey, mine too. Very concerned re Roe.

I wasn’t kidding. If anyone can help me find someplace I can help, pls email/msg me

Rec’d! Glad to see you are on it. It’s going to take all we have and more just not to get screwed on this, imo.

IMHO, the necessary and sufficient condition for victory for rational healthcare is for Obama to fight for it as hard and effectively as he did for funding to continue his surge in Afghanistan.

On some book salon here at FDL there was a constitutional scholar. I posted a Q roughly as follows: Roe v. Wade revolves around the right to privacy, which is not in the Bill of Rights. But if there is no right to privacy, how is it that any of the other delineated rights make sense? His A was that I was absolutely right, but that lawyers didn’t look at it that way. A cliche about emperors and new clothes came to mind.

I remember that.
And recalling that IANAL, my take is this wrt to privacy and the 14th: If you are uterus-free, you have absolutely no standing. None. Period.

Edit: also recall that many, and this is a growing thing among Talibangelicals – they contend that birth control of any kind save abstinence – is abortion.
So if men want the gummint telling them when they can get snipped, well, OK.

griswold v. connecticut (ussc 1965, i think) established that (rightly, IMHO). If stare decisis is valid, there IS a right to privacy

Don’t understand your point. What is the relation between 14th amendment & being male?

Not gonna chase that down at this late hour, but if I could put myself in the scholar’s shoes, I think he meant that privacy was conditional, and not just conditioned on if your assertion of privacy hurt another individual (which I might agree with), but conditional on whether the state (i.e., sophisticated lawyers) thought you had no right to privacy. A very complicated subject, according to said expert, and not at all as simple as I asserted. /s

Hey the senate wanted to fund Afghanistan as much as anyone. he would have to turn the senate around after he does his own about face on much of what’s needed for a decent healthcare package.

Equal protection:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Privacy.

What I don’t understand is your assertion that the 14th amendment is not applicable to males. Do you mean that men have no standing in abortion? If that’s your case, it means that fathers have no rights over their unborn children. Is that what you think?

Not my contention.
One’s own body is their business, male or female.
No man, and no woman has a right to infringe on another’s reproductive prerogatives, whether it be contravention of birth control or the destiny of a conception.
I didn’t mean it is or should be limited to men or women, but that sovereignty over your body is not subject to another’s will.

And yes, lacking the uterus in question, should be peripheral to decisions about the destiny of a conception, and only a woman can decide to include him.

He had to fight hard to get the supplemental through the House. On healthcare, the centrist Democrats will be his stumbling block.

I hope that Franken can be there in time to help.

Would seem to me if a male / father wanted something other than what the woman / mother had in mind (prior to birth), privacy, individual liberty would automatically have to go to the female. Except perhaps in cases of serious mental instability or some such.

Hiya, pups!

Has anyone seen a good article yet that compares Neda Agha Soltan to Rachel Corrie?

The far right is working 24/7 to co-opt the image of what Neda was doing that got her killed. I’m fighting back.

I just saw this, and wondered if anyone else is thinking along the compare and contrast lines.

Oh, god.
No, first I’ve seen of it.

So I still don’t understand what is your opinion in the following scenario: man gets woman pregant. Woman wants abortion. Man wants baby. Man does or does not have standing?

I am very exited about this. Can’t wait to see the final ad, but I am thrilled there are now outside left efforts with an eye on the south. I think AR is a perfect starting point for many reasons. The only blue southern state, small population with cheap races compared to almost anywhere else… and with concerted effort I honestly believe a common sense concerted progressive populist message will work on Arkansans.

It’s pretty new. I’ve been out hiking today, and thought of Corrie – Neda comparisons, while watching millions of Siberian irises past their bloom, struggling in the wind.

The comparison crossed my mind yesterday… and naturally, I thought of you.

ET, If you have not seen these photos… you might want to post a linky.

Does not.
Do I want you, or a court or a church or a state legislature or a President deciding whether a vasectomy or condom use is abortion, and whether I am relevant to that decision?
No.
Do I want a woman to be burdened by considerations other than her conscience or whatever criteria she chooses, to decide her reproductive destiny?
No.

That is a great spread. Thanks.

she’s concerned that “if all Congress comes up with is a government-backed plan, then there will be very little incentive for the private industry to be able to be competitive …”

Blanche is more concerned with protecting corporate wealth that American’s health.

I agree with you that, for some reason, progressives have not managed an effective pitch in the south. Somehow the rightards have been able to get people to vote against their class interests there more than elsewhere.

In any case, it’s time for me to turn in.

G’nite all.

Now I understand your position.

But, regardless of whether life begins at conception or birth, an embryo is created by a male and a female. To exclude males from the decision of what happens to that embryo strikes me (a female) as unequal.

I don’t have any easy solutions, so I’m not sure what my reasoning would lead to. Should a male contributor to an embryo be allowed to insist that the woman carry the embryo to term? That seems unreasonable because of the physical and emotional burden on the woman. But the A that the sperm donor has no say also seems extreme.

Good night wigwam..

…physical and emotional burden on the woman…

To me, that is all there is.
I won’t bother with the age-old question “If men could conceive…” because we live in the real world on this particular blog.
But were any of the aforementioned bodies or groups to attempt to restrict my behavior, but not seek to restrict another’s on the basis of gender or race or age or any of a thousand other criteria, I would seek to deny them that right. And I believe the 14th does exactly that by NOT restricting the persons to whom the rights are granted, or the circumstances involved.

You cannot intrude on a woman in a way in which you could NOT intrude on a man.

Off topic a bit but I don’t know that I have ever seen Graham Nash with such a, a tight pair of pants. Kinda revealing!

Night Pups see ya all tomorrow..

Hopefully he will stop in and comment on his fashion choices at that time. *s*

And welcome misswildthing, During Late Late Night threads nothing is off topic.

Good night nahant.. I’m fading too.

Good night fabulous firedogs..)

nite eureka
nite nahant

Powerful case. And I’ll use it in the appropriate circumstances (with or without attribution).

But I still think that it would be nice if the father had some say, even pre-birth. As an economist, the issue of compensation comes to mind. If the biological father really wants the kid, he must compensate the biological mother for the physical & emotional effort. And if there’s no dollar figure that can be agreed upon, then your privacy issue rules.

And for context:
I had a discussion with a woman may years ago in which she took the position that any woman of any age should be allowed to exercise her reproductive independence without notification, and without interference – a position with which I agree.

I do find the issue very troubling, as I had sisters who were minors at the time, and I could not articulate my angst about them being in that position.

But neither could the woman I spoke with. She argued that the question should be closed, and would not posit her argument except to say that statutory rape victims need protection from incestuous relatives. To me, that is not the entire argument, but it is not unpersuasive.

And still, I have no biological imperative from which to argue. I will never be in her position, and I am therefore not entitled to make her walk in my shoes.

Walking in others’ shoes very important in this debate. But there are rational ways to discuss it, and on this site we owe it to ourselves to investigate them.

Yes, it would be more than nice.
I don’t disagree that a woman is wise to survey those around her for counsel. But the final say must be in the hands of (and I use this term in the legal sense) the burdened. I could never be so burdened.

Flagging, so saying good nite. Thanks for the discussion, and wish other males would be so understanding.

Completely agree.
For me, I can only say that I have no more than 50% of the say as to an issue of equity between myself and another party. In the case of carrying a pregnancy to term, I feel I have considerably less than 50%.

nite ecahn. I am out too

Attaturk is upstairs!
America’s Concern Troll