As Rachel noted once, why bother with a law when you can make getting an abortion impossible?

70 something in The City Beautiful. Goin’ into the 90’s with high humidity and no t-storms.

Our guys won last night! That’s why we still believe in Magic.

I’m still waiting for all the pro-torture people to be asked if Tiller’s killer should be tortured.

Meanwhile, the FBI has more important matters.
First, there was the Liberty City 7. Then the Newburgh 4.
What collection of sad sack losers can we entrap uncover in a terrorist plot today?

I’ve been thinking about you, BFL. Sunday night was a heartbreaker. Last night was better.

Actually, a much better candidate would be the person whose phone number
was Post It-ed on Roeder’s dashboard.

What would Jack do?

See what Kansass does with their death penalty statute. Presumably Roeder is charged with first degree, premeditated murder. Puts him right in the cross hairs, as was Dr. Tiller.

According to CNN Shroder has been getting a lot of letters of encouragement from all over the country, This should be a good list for the FBI to start from for investigating potential american taliban terrorists.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. State sanctioned homicide is still homicide.

Mornin’, BT, pups.

Exactly – why mess around trying to get anti-abortion judges or getting laws changed when just eliminating the people who can provide the service is so much more…effective.

Aside from the fact that killing him just makes him a martyr to those lunatics.

Good morning all.

Thanks for the post BT. Don’t suppose we’ll see you at the ROT Rally this week end eh?

I am not in favor of the death penalty ever. It is, as SD says, state sanctioned homicide. Also, executing someone in a way shortens the punishment. I’d rather see Roeder serve life in prison without parole, preferably in a really ugly facility like a SuperMax, and I hope he has to live there for a long, long time, getting buggered by his fellow inmates.

Yeah, I’m not feeling very charitable this morning, why do you ask?

Thanks to people like Bill O’Reilly continuing the violence ans hate campaign, this stuff isn’t going away any time soon.

He is a clip of O’Reilly displaying his intellectual laziness.

http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=1679

Yep, just like Paul Hill. We don’t need any more forced-birth martyrs, thank you very much. To make matters worse states use a lethal concoction that vets quit using years ago because they considered it inhumane.

Supermax is essentially segregation for the entire term of imprisonment. Very little contact between inmates is allowed. I’d like to know what keeps them from going crazy.

seems to me roedler is ripe for a little waterboarding. afterall, he claims to know that there are more out there planning terrorist attacks and refuses to provide details to law enforcement. there’s only one way to get that info out of him….

Did I miss something? Where’s Attaturk?

I am also not in favor of the death penalty. I am also not in favor of super max for this type of criminal. Super max is 23 hrs a day in solitary. This guy needs to be in with the prison population.

I agree. Supermax is usually for prisoners who are too dangerous, but not psychotic, to be in the general prison population. Hard core sociopaths. If Roeder is found guilty and sentenced to prison he’ll find he’s a babe left among rabid wolves.

When I first moved to Gulfport in the early 80s I met a member of the Outlaws motorcycle “club.” The Greek had a fondness for violence. Big dude and would fight at the drop of a hat. He and a bunch of others got busted on a Federal drug rap. Did 7 years in Federal prison, not in Supermax. Changed him. He’s now the caregiver of a guy who was horribly burned in a Land Rover accident and got gazillions from the auto company. Long story but if ya didn’t know The Greek in the old days you’d never know he was a tough guy.

I have always perceived of prisons as institutions of higher deviant education. But for people like Shroder it is an ideal punishment.

He doesn’t need any help being made a martyr.

Better if he’s tried as any ordinary criminal, no more, no less.

Prisons obviously don’t serve the purpose for which they were intended but damned if I can come up with some other system for those too violent to be out in society. Our prison system is a whole other complex topic.

I am also not in favor of the death penalty. I am also not in favor of super max for this type of criminal. Super max is 23 hrs a day in solitary. This guy needs to be in with the prison population.

Obviously I don’t know much about supermax facilities. I just want him to have a very long and unbearable incarceration, whether in solitary 23 hours/day or preferably out in the general population where the other nasty guys can have their way with him 24/7. What’s the worst prison? I want him to go there!

Years ago, wouldn’t even have thought about wanting *anyone* tortured, no matter what they did. I still don’t approve of it of course, but that fact that we can even *entertain* such thoughts shows how much this country changed under Bush and Cheney. They normalized it. At first it’s just for “really bad people,” dontcha know, and then for, you know, sorta bad people. And then as Naomi Klein shows us what became standard practice in third world oligopolies, for union leaders, journalists, dissidents, civil rights activists, etc.

The bastards normalized it.

Jane has a new post up…

I still think killing someone when you are pro-life is a hypocritical solution.
Here Newt Gingrich goes again: Newt Gingrich vs. Paganism.

Killing Dr. Tiller was certainly not terrorism. This was a righteous act by someone willing to martyr himself to the Godless fanatics who are ruining the country. It is good that the government report on domestic terrorism was pulled. After all, we know that there are no such people. Poor Timothy McVeigh was unjustly made a martyr by a government at war with its people.

I hope you all are enjoying the deadly psychotic delusional terrorism that your governments, at all levels, are subsidizing with the blanket exemption from taxation that “religious” organizations receive. While your friendly neighborhood Christian church is fomenting insurrection and assassination, its 501(c)(3) status keeps it from having to pay any kind of taxes.

Kinda misses the point. I don’t like the death penalty, either, but if you’re charged with first degree murder in kansas, that’s part of your exposure. It’s not as though the DA is gonna start the trial and then say, oh, btw, I’m gonna ignore the statute so the death penalty’s just not a possibility in this case. Likewise, most of the people in a vigil line at Roeder’s execution are gonna be more Op Rescue members.

Roeder’s a martyr to them right now. It’s not gonna change much if he’s executed. To them, he’s a hero. Would he kill again if he gets out? Yes

Will his execution deter other Op rescue types from killing again? Yes.

Those are answers that a Kansas jury may very well deliver after Roeder’s trial. If that happens, I’m not gonna pick that opportunity to start protesting the death penalty in a state that’s killed plenty of other men who committed the same sort of crime. What are you going to do with your “two wrongs don’t make a right” view? Work for Roeder to avoid execution?

This is very similar to when Prime Minister Rabin was assassinated in Israel. The extremists got exactly what they wanted.

Roeder is not facing the death penalty. Kansas law provides for the death penalty for premeditated murder with special circumstances. The Sedgwick County DA has already determined that none of the special circumstances apply here.

Will his execution deter other Op rescue types from killing again? Yes.

Just like executing Paul Hill, killer of Dr Barrett, his escort and seriously wounding Dr Barrett’s wife, deterred the alleged killer of Dr Tiller.

Execution as a deterrence is a lame argument, refuted by numerous studies done over the years.

The answer to that question, SD, is not much at all.

On the death penalty issue, yeah, if he were facing execution I’d do what I could to try to stop it. I’ve lost a beloved aunt and uncle (my dad’s oldest sibs) to murderers. Both murderers are dead now. My aunt and uncle are still dead, and my father still mourns their loss.

From a retribution viewpoint, life in prison is in many respects worse than death.

the media, including Rachel, describe Tiller as a “late term abortion provider”. It is unfair to women and to the pro-choice movement. HE SAVED WOMEN’S LIVES! HE REDUCED THE NEEDLESS SUFFERING OF HOPEFUL AND LOVING PREGNANT WOMEN AND THEIR FAMILIES! He eliminated the needless suffering of horribly mutilated or genetically doomed fetuses. He assisted loving couples and families in avoiding the horrors, bureaucracy, and unconscionable expense of the American health system which impoverishes and bankrupts law abiding citizens. We need to have a much better description of the rationale for such late term abortions and the condition of afflicted mothers and disfigured fetuses so that the public will know of the compassion of late term abortion providers like Dr. Tiller. Has anyone asked the anti-abortion movement to be emotionally, medically, and financially responsible for husbands and children deprived of a mother lost to fatal late term abnormality? Have they offered the daily love, care, and money to adopt a horribly mutilated “naturally born” child who will survive in pain for weeks or months without a brain, intestines, a face, arms or legs, or worse? No. Their compassion stops at birth. The media should be exposing this side of the argument. I do not see it even from the few liberal commentators.

Initial charge may well change as DA’s investigation proceeds, with sub B still a possibility. Kinda early to conclude he acted without enabling co conspirators. Be interesting to see what DOJ turns up, as it was with some of the Deep South civil rights murder cases. Appreciate your answer at 36 and the info re: current charge.