Comments on: The Courage Of The Conservadems http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:39:31 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: getplaning http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915342 getplaning Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:23:58 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915342 <p>I prefer to call them the Corporate Democrats. They do not serve their voters, and they never have. They serve the corporate interests of their districts.</p> I prefer to call them the Corporate Democrats. They do not serve their voters, and they never have. They serve the corporate interests of their districts.

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915211 esseff44 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:56:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915211 <p>Well, you now have the Kennedy Plan to digest….all 600 plus page of it. We need something simple and something that will save on administrative costs, paperwork and that will keep people from falling through the cracks. I don’ t think this is it. I don’t see the savings in admin. costs. People will have problems moving from one plan to another as their life situations shift…sometimes suddenly. We need a card we can walk into any hospital and be covered and that we can take to providers of our choice as long as they are liscensed and signed up and reviewed.</p> <p>At any rate, I am still trying to sift through the Kennedy/Dodd plan to see what there is to see.</p> Well, you now have the Kennedy Plan to digest….all 600 plus page of it. We need something simple and something that will save on administrative costs, paperwork and that will keep people from falling through the cracks. I don’ t think this is it. I don’t see the savings in admin. costs. People will have problems moving from one plan to another as their life situations shift…sometimes suddenly. We need a card we can walk into any hospital and be covered and that we can take to providers of our choice as long as they are liscensed and signed up and reviewed.

At any rate, I am still trying to sift through the Kennedy/Dodd plan to see what there is to see.

]]> By: MarkH http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915126 MarkH Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:03:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915126 <p>Single-payer: people pay taxes, everyone’s covered, gov’t pays tab</p> <p>All private: people pay premiums, some aren’t covered, no gov’t involvement</p> <p>Current sys: much private employee-based, some not covered, gov’t plan for some</p> <p>Blue-dog compromise: ?</p> <p>The medical industry wants all private with a mandate requiring everyone to buy insurance and make doctors even richer. But, they already charge us twice what they should, so their idea sucks EVEN WORSE than our current system.</p> <p>I believe single-payer would be a disaster because there would be a lot of unemployed people and great disruption in the industry. I also don’t believe Americans approve of a Socialist approach as shown by the lack of legal support for such a thing in our Constitution.</p> <p>The current system PLUS a gov’t option is a compromise to ensure everyone is covered without disrupting or eliminating the private sector business.</p> <p>The only other direction to go is to push all the costs onto the private health care & insurance industry. They make far too much profit already, so there is certainly enough money there to pay for covering everybody. How gov’t might push the costs onto them isn’t exactly clear.</p> <p>When the Blue Dogs or Republicans try to tell us single-payer isn’t an option because it’s too far Left and crazy and all that then what they’re doing is moving the center of the debate to the Right, toward more craziness than we already have.</p> <p>When sensible people say the current system (much less an entirely pure all private system) is crazy and bankrupting us all then we move the center to the left.</p> <p>I think a ‘public option’ is a decent compromise centrist position. But, if that’s not acceptable, then the answer isn’t to move further Right to make the health care & insurance industry RICHER. No, if we aren’t going to do the public option, then the better position is to force private industry to pay for it. Push the costs onto them.</p> Single-payer: people pay taxes, everyone’s covered, gov’t pays tab

All private: people pay premiums, some aren’t covered, no gov’t involvement

Current sys: much private employee-based, some not covered, gov’t plan for some

Blue-dog compromise: ?

The medical industry wants all private with a mandate requiring everyone to buy insurance and make doctors even richer. But, they already charge us twice what they should, so their idea sucks EVEN WORSE than our current system.

I believe single-payer would be a disaster because there would be a lot of unemployed people and great disruption in the industry. I also don’t believe Americans approve of a Socialist approach as shown by the lack of legal support for such a thing in our Constitution.

The current system PLUS a gov’t option is a compromise to ensure everyone is covered without disrupting or eliminating the private sector business.

The only other direction to go is to push all the costs onto the private health care & insurance industry. They make far too much profit already, so there is certainly enough money there to pay for covering everybody. How gov’t might push the costs onto them isn’t exactly clear.

When the Blue Dogs or Republicans try to tell us single-payer isn’t an option because it’s too far Left and crazy and all that then what they’re doing is moving the center of the debate to the Right, toward more craziness than we already have.

When sensible people say the current system (much less an entirely pure all private system) is crazy and bankrupting us all then we move the center to the left.

I think a ‘public option’ is a decent compromise centrist position. But, if that’s not acceptable, then the answer isn’t to move further Right to make the health care & insurance industry RICHER. No, if we aren’t going to do the public option, then the better position is to force private industry to pay for it. Push the costs onto them.

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915123 esseff44 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:21:33 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915123 <p>Yes, it is a country in flux. Again, I am thinking how far they have come in the last decade….and poverty is a very hard thing to measure across different cultures and systems. China is just slipping back into its old quasi-feudal system. The names change but the dynamics are much like they used to be. Like every other place, corruption is their biggest problem and more so than poverty. They do not have to pretend to be a democracy. They don’t have to worry about being called socialistic or communistic. And they certainly are not going to lose sleep over being called ‘capitalist running dogs.’ They do have to worry about corruption.</p> <p>And India.</p> <p><a href="http://www.cfr.org/publication/9663/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cfr.org/publication/9663/</a></p> Yes, it is a country in flux. Again, I am thinking how far they have come in the last decade….and poverty is a very hard thing to measure across different cultures and systems. China is just slipping back into its old quasi-feudal system. The names change but the dynamics are much like they used to be. Like every other place, corruption is their biggest problem and more so than poverty. They do not have to pretend to be a democracy. They don’t have to worry about being called socialistic or communistic. And they certainly are not going to lose sleep over being called ‘capitalist running dogs.’ They do have to worry about corruption.

And India.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/9663/

]]> By: mui1 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915122 mui1 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:02:27 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915122 <p>anything’s possible. anything.</p> anything’s possible. anything.

]]> By: mui1 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915121 mui1 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:58:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915121 <p>I really hate The economist. But when I’m in a waiting room, it’s somewhat more interesting than people magazine. So when a Chinese official posted a response to the “china uberalles” theme, I had to applaud, because I felt it was pretty true. China has big problems. Environmental, poverty wise they’re up there on the world poverty scale in terms of income per head (it’s pretty uneven), etc. . . China’s might is exaggerated. IMHO It’s not so much a superpower as a country in flux.</p> I really hate The economist. But when I’m in a waiting room, it’s somewhat more interesting than people magazine. So when a Chinese official posted a response to the “china uberalles” theme, I had to applaud, because I felt it was pretty true. China has big problems. Environmental, poverty wise they’re up there on the world poverty scale in terms of income per head (it’s pretty uneven), etc. . . China’s might is exaggerated. IMHO It’s not so much a superpower as a country in flux.

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915120 esseff44 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:44:09 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915120 <p>Not that they are less honest, just that we might have to depend on them. Actually, they are slipping into superpower status faster than one could have imagined a decade ago. They are taking the place of the US in just about every respect….economically, militarily, and they don’t have to worry about losing an election.</p> Not that they are less honest, just that we might have to depend on them. Actually, they are slipping into superpower status faster than one could have imagined a decade ago. They are taking the place of the US in just about every respect….economically, militarily, and they don’t have to worry about losing an election.

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915119 esseff44 Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:42:57 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915119 <p>Oh, right. Wasn’t that playing at the Kennedy Center for date night?</p> Oh, right. Wasn’t that playing at the Kennedy Center for date night?

]]> By: eCAHNomics http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915118 eCAHNomics Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:39:44 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915118 <p>And why do you think the Chinese are less honest than the U.S.?</p> And why do you think the Chinese are less honest than the U.S.?

]]> By: john in sacramento http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915117 john in sacramento Wed, 10 Jun 2009 03:38:33 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/09/the-courage-of-the-conservadems/#comment-1915117 <p>I’m on your side. I don’t know. He has genuinely been a disappointment to me</p> <p>Gotta run all</p> <p>L8r</p> I’m on your side. I don’t know. He has genuinely been a disappointment to me

Gotta run all

L8r

]]>