Our natural reaction is to be infuriated once again by their unreliability and their coziness with corporate interest groups, but maybe we’re looking at this the wrong way.
Think about it: For almost five years, the Blue Dogs and their Senate counterparts have repeatedly sided with a stupendously unpopular president (and party), and against a very popular one.
What courage it must take to ignore all the polls and the voters, and align yourself with the people everyone hates!
Sure, the Republicans do it all the time, but being bloodthirsty pro-corporate assholes who are always wrong is kind of their job, and it’s what their base wants. If they possessed the courage of the Blue Dogs, they could tell their primary voters to suck it, and dare the Pat Toomeys to bring it on – but they never do, because they are cowardly and weak! Not like our brave Blue Dogs!
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m just proud as punch that that kind of steely testicular fortitude can only be found on the Democratic side of the aisle. Yay team!
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Hey Eli!
Hey eg!
Thanks for opening my eyes, Eli. Until now I have viewed the Blue Dogs as nothing more than treacherous cretins.
What
courageBribes! it must take to ignore all the polls and the voters, and align yourself with the people everyone hates!A friend thinks that the R party is gonna disappear and the D party will split in two.
See, it’s all just a matter of perspective. They’re sticking to their principles, no matter what. And if those principles just happen to be that the corporations should always win, well, so be it – at least it’s an ethos.
And we probably won’t even notice the difference.
I am tempted to ponder Harry Reid’s boxing career, and just how many low-blows have may have endured.
Then I remember that he never met a chump-change compromise he didn’t just love!
Ain’t about balls – it really is about spine.
I’m tempted to wonder how often he took a dive – he’s awfully good at it.
Yay Team, indeed. Landrieu is truly dumb – and that’s being nice.
You betcha. I’ll have to repeat that to my friend, with attribution, of course.
If you click through the link for her, the HuffPo story notes that she had previously signed a letter in support of the public option.
Time to Primary some Senators or…we could cancel Congress’s Socialized Healthcare plan!
If Harry can dump Joe’s anti torture photo bill into other bills can we start dumping a bill that links Single Payer to Congressional Healthcare funding and put that into other unrelated must pass bills?
heya Eli!
and may I just drop in a gratuitous “Fuck Mary Landrieu”?
(after all, it’s pretty much always appropriate)
Heya jayt!
Absolutely, go nuts.
thanks, Eli. :)
here’s a great read by Matt Taibbi:
http://www.alternet.org/rights….._policies/
Thats only because she was sure that even if she voted for it it would never get passed the GOP would filibuster.
Too bad Al Franken should be getting seated soon.
I admit, I did not have high expectations for Obama – I was cautiously optimistic at best. And I’m not entirely surprised that he turned out to be kind of a centrist wanker on so many domestic issues. But I truly had no idea that he would keep so much of BushCo’s architecture of evil intact.
Every Senator who votes against Single Payer had Better Voluntarily give up their Government Healthcare!
I want records of how much they charged the Government for family healthcare.
Also considering how obsessed Politicians are with their looks what do you want to bet that some Plastic Surgery is covered?
I wonder if Family members also get Plastic Surgery covered?
I’m sure they bury or change the bill listing of the procedure or declare it Medically Necessary.
Then you’re naive. Do you really expect the most powerful man in the world to voluntarily relinquish and of his power? Wouldn’t matter who’s prez, he just won’t ever do it. Presidential power is a one-way street, unless congress grows a spine.
Every Senator who goes on TV and talks against Single Payer must be asked if they will pay back all the Government Healthcare that they got over the years for themselves and their family.
And with their own money not campaign cash!
He could close Gitmo and release the torture photos without giving up any presidential prerogatives, but he doesn’t seem particularly willing to do either.
In Mary Landrieu’s defense she hails from Louisiana, a state that produced a politician so bad (Huey Long) that a DOCTOR shot him. I haven’t read the Hippocratic Oath lately but I’m pretty certain that constitutes a breach.
Me thinks you do Landreau too much credit.
But I’m from California, where Senators are stout souls who serve their constituients faithfully.
The most seductive power of all: the power to keep secrets.
Man, you are seriously warped/s.
Bush Power is 1984ish. Obama has people power high approval ratings he could go Left and keep that power…or he could keep heading to the Dark Side.
Lets see how this turns out in the end. I admit right now I’m not to happy either.
‘evening, Eli and all-
The tools of power are the same, no matter who wields them.
I would love to see the Republican party disappear, and the Dem party split in two. At least then there’d be a chance of developing a truly liberal, mainstream party.
Hope springs eternal. I know.
Hmm I just asked Howard Dean to explain the differnce between single payer and the public healthcare option he is advocating. So far no answer.
I only credit her with adhering to their tradition of electing corrupt politicians. Here in Illinois we maintain a MUCH higher standard.:-)
I want records of how much and on what every Senator and Congressperson bills Me! the tax payer on Government healthcare that they do not want me to have!
The new Republican Party would be much the same as the old one, but maybe the new Democratic Party would be an improvement. Of course, it’d be in the minority again…
jeez
withdrawn!
1984ish power with the people’s approval is the cat’s whiskers.
doctor subject to Hippocratic Oath shoots a Louisiana politician subject to Hypocritical Oath…
is that a wash?
Can I post that to the live chat?
In my estimation the Dems and the GOP are already two heads on the same fat maggot. The Dem head is currently positioned to take bigger bites but the prognosis for the bloated corpse of our Democracy remains unchanged.
Congresscritters with large corporate employers in their district should welcome a public option. It will relieve their communities and their hospitals of a massive indirect subsidy to the poor and uninsured. It will relieve corporate employers of the burden of providing medical insurance, while helping to keep the locals healthy, as well as cooperative.
The principal losers are the ones currently gouging the public, medical insurers, and companies like Wal-Mart that tout medical insurance benefits, while rarely keeping staff long enough to use them.
The July 4th home town meetings and August county fairs should be a hot time for Blue Dogs and Repubniks this summer. It should be a good time for progressives to brag about their backing for such an obvious, progressive, good neighbor policy as a credible public option for health insurance.
One last thing. The benchmark for any credible plan should be the health care it makes available, not how much insurance it sells, to the public.
Pretty confident he’d still have lost his license. Kind of a moot point after Huey’s goons finished with him.
Mary Landrieu may need a basic course in warfare. The order is fight, THEN surrender. Not the other way around.
Sure whats your handle on the live chat I’m looking for your question?
*snort*
m.u.i., baby
True Bush proved after 9/11 that absolute power Corrupts absolutely. He had the 1984ish power and *barf* high poll numbers.
It would save a lot of time here in Illinois if our governors reported to prison for their swearing-in ceremony.
Bush was corrupt long before 9/11.
You mean you don’t think he was sincere?:-)
They’re like Spinal Tap drummers or something.
eCahn I think you’re just the person to play hardball on gov. dean’s live chat reforming healthcare.
But 9/11 gave him a golden opportunity to exploit his corrupt vision of the U.S.
Are they censoring the questions I asked a question waited hit the refresh button and nothing and I’m not seeing your question either?
A censored or even just a slow to respond online book club will not be popular.
Maybe they could hire Jane to run it for them.
I’m all talked out on the topic. I’ve been writing about medical economics (not in detail, but with ref to its impact on the macroeconomy) since 1992. And watching it in a slomo strangulation of the economy. I’m all talked out.
Nothing like fear of terrorists to create a pretense for a security state.
Seems like they are posting the lamest questions.
True but personally and in a business sense corrupt 9/11 gave him a much broader scope of Evil.
I keep going back to BO’s statement that we, the public, have to make him do it (the right thing). Progressives have been applying pressure, but we seem to be ignored. What’s it gonna take, a Cindy Sheehan approach in front of the White Hous, holding signs saying “What is the reason you are ignoring the good of the people” and “I dare you to meet with us”?
Give ‘em hell, Harry.
Lamest or safest? Maybe they are trying to dampen the debate by dulling it down? I wonder if Dean knows whats going on?
I’ve posted quite a few questions. None have been answered. Single payer v. public healthcare, not adequately.
Yes, funny how if he wants us to “make him do it”, that he seems so unable (or unwilling) to hear anything we say…
Progressives will get some lip service when he runs for reelection.
Started with the U.S. assent to global power after WWII. If you think the current crew are bad, remember Acheson & John Foster Dulles.
Dude, you didn’t get the memo? Money equals speech.
I agree with your friend.
I pitty every one of these asshole next election cycle. Especially Blue Dogs. People in this red county are pissed about legislators ignoring what the people need by fashioning a bill that favors corporate interersts once again. Healthcare is a very hot topic in California since the governator announced that he was cutting almost one million children from the healthy families healthcare roll because the state is broke. Of course we have to fix the states financial issues on the backs of those most vulnerable. Watch out Jim Costa and Devin Nunes your days in Congress are numbered.
Well it’s certainly not like the famous FDL chat with maybe Bob Woodward? Now that was fun.
Heh. Got no lip service from his crowd before the last election. At last year’s NN, I complained at his booth on his FISA reversal, and the snot nosed kids said: So what is your choice?
funny how if he wants us to “make him do it”….
just so long as “us” doesn’t include any damned bloggers….
Oh shit, I missed that one. When was it?
Maybe Eli and Jane can get Dean here for our book club?
Look for Hugh’s comments.
Risky business, criticizing Dear Leader to the party faithful.
Lots of our book club meets are a riot:) Unless the authors are trying to Spin us.
It’s going to be a much tougher sell. Lots of people were projecting their hopes onto him last year and expecting the best of him. After four years of half-assed wankery and footdragging, a lot of progressives won’t be buying it.
I think it would be a more dynamic setup. Yes.
“Unless”? Don’t you mean “especially”?
Dear Leader should quit speaking out of both sides of his mouth or he will be a one hit wonder….
Bob woodward was talking of super secret nukular options or some cowboy sh*t.
Imagine Predident McCain and VP Palin? Now that would be really scary.
Cool. Thanks for the link. I controlled-f thru Hugh’s comments and noticed that Woodward ignored every single one of them. I’ll go back & look at the rest later.
Always harder to run on your own record than against your predecessor’s. On the other hand, incumbents have a big foot in the fund raising door.
Were you at some book event in NYC this past weekend? I thought I saw you and your wife on Book-TV, in the audience.
Absolutely. I’d just like to be able to hang my hat on something more than “Well, at least he’s better than McCain.”
Still have not seen your question or mine I bookmarked the page will check later.
I asked Dean about women in Venezuela outliving African American and White Men in America because they got National Healthcare.
The GOP hates Hugo so if Hugo’s people are catching up to us in lifespan well I’m hoping a few GOP Media heads explode.
Especially when your predecessor is the Worst President Ever. I think his messaging is going to be that he’s still in the process of digging us out of a deep, dark hole, and he’s making progress, but he needs more time. And if we elect a Republican, they’ll just start digging again.
Your right especially.
Imagine Predident McCain and VP Palin? Now that would be really scary.
I dunno – I figure I’d be living on a beach somewhere about now….
Would have made life easier for the Secret Service, they only would have needed to protect him from his VP. Nearly everybody else in the world (atheists included) would have been praying for his good health.
I think it’ll be more than just us who won’t be buying it. Look at all the UAW members who are about to be disenfranchised from their health benefits and pensions. They’re not going to be too happy in 3 years either.
Yes why bring that up now has Sarah done something stupid again?
Yeah, no-one who got directly screwed is going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Unless something changes, I suspect he’s not going to get a lot of gay votes…
Plagiarized Newt Gingrich, does that count?
Good for you! Ha!
Yes
OT, the Supremes unsigned opinion re Chrysler, according to a report in the Toronto Star, said:
If that’s the standard, how can anyone make any appeal to the SCOTUS ever?
Bobby Bright is a good case study of Blue Dog courage or lack there of. You can see here what this newly-elected Blue Dog has done for Democrats. He ran as a Democrat because they offered him more money than he could get as a Republican. He is of the same mold as the Republican he narrowly beat…they are deacons in the same church in Montgomery. He ran as anti-choice and pro-gun. He said he was for SCHIP in the campaign and then voted against it. He voted against the Lily Ledbetter bill even though he was supposed to be a little more on the side of labor (took union money).
I guess the question is: In what respect is he of any value at all to the Dems? Wouldn’t it be better if he were on the other side of the aisle?
http://www.leftinalabama.com/s…..aryId=3244
He was never for any kind of public option for health care. He was pro-drilling ANWAR and anywhere. He was for bringing the troops home as soon as we could make sure the Iraqis could pay for the occupation.
He is a piece of work and perhaps a little brighter than Bachman. At least she good for a laugh.
I don’t think I’ve seen Hugh in better form and I’ve seen him explain topics destroy arguments lots of times here.
I’m not happy with this chat. It’s all about swaying those not in favor of public healthcare from the right. I doubt they’d post say Hugh’s questions.
Unless McCain runs again in ‘12.
Did you see where those two corrupt asshats defected from the Democratic side of the NY state senate to give the Republicans control? I think I might start pointing to that whenever the GOP concern trolls scold us for our intolerance and excessive ideological purity.
Plagiarized Newt Gingrich, does that count?
on the Sarah-Stupidometer, that one only rates about a 3, I think.
Since it’s been a relatively long time since she’s been quoted on anything, she’s been sounding a lot smarter.
In other words, if they’re so far to the right that you’re not even sure they’re really Democrats, then you’re better off without them.
True why appeal to the GOP/Blue dogs they won’t change their minds unless we bribe them with more cash than the healthcare industry can.
But Dean has an ego I think he would like the Lake that new Dem book club thing seems tame and censored.
We are interesting:)
I’m not too sure her paraphrasing really counts as plagiarism. She did crdit Newt before and after. He didn’t seem to mind. A stemwinding political speech is not the same thing as a research paper. She’s not going to stand there and put air quotes around everything. He’s not going to sue someone who might end up on the same ticket with him, is he?
No I was out on the boat as I am most weekend Spring through Fall.
well that’s a standard that would clear a lot of space in D.C…..
Very disappointing. “Thanks for all your questions.” come again, All of us?
Then you have an evil twin. I must admit it was during the night (I leave my TV on low volume, because when I wake up it puts me back to sleep before my mind churns on personal issues), so my recollection is not reliable.
I think the “progressive” Dem book club is run by the Blue Dogs they probably share the GOP’s aversion to freedom in blog comments.
Just got my ISP back so I’m late.
Dr Carl Weiss was shot 61 times by Long’s bodyguards.
i thought bernie sanders was an independent?
By folks
With 9 days left in the session.
I guess it only matters really if the balance is so close that you need them to keep the majority posts and chairmanships. After all, wasn’t that what made Lieberman so #$%^#$ special? A majority of one?
Yep. We gots trolls an’ shit.
I think that’s more than Bonnie and Clyde combined, which also happened in Louisiana, BTW. They don’t do anything half-assed.
We don’t have enuf trolls, she said being concerned about concern trolls. I used to think they were worth not feeding, but after awhile, my sadistic side came out, and I decided we needed more of them to trash.
Yep, Bernie appears to be the only one with any, ahem, intestinal fortitude. Kennedy gets a pass.
I wonder what questions Kucinich would have asked?
Shoulda been around earlier. We’ve got another Juno, but whinier.
nighty night.
Hi selise. How’s you’re snarkometer tonight?
Yep, and it was really sickening watching them stroke his smug, wrinkly ass. And now they’re tiptoeing around him *again* ‘cuz he’s part of the Magickal Filibuster-Proof 60.
In both houses, there are enough conservative Dems to essentially veto anything the Democrats want to do. Thankfully, the margins aren’t close enough for a potential coup, but things can change – especially if things don’t change enough.
Nah, just piss poor aim and fire discipline.
selise what do you think kucinich’s objections to the public option for health insurance would be. He seems to be the only congress critter we have who objects from the left.
I had company, and then when I turned on my computer this afternoon, the modem had been fried by the thunderstorm last night. So I had to go to TWC to get another one before I could hook up to the internet.
Complete change of topic. Kind of an interesting vid from inside the cockpit of a Blue Angel. Gives some sense of their insanely tight formation.
I caught a bit of Sanders on a replay of WJ, today, I think. Host asked him about Baucus being against single payer, and Sanders said how terrible that was. Host said: but Baucus is a D, whereupon Sanders responded that he is an I. Then I had to leave to do something else.
howdy! i heard paul krugman use the term “snarky” (correctly too!) during his talk yesterday at the london school of economics! (via webcast of course)
is the live chat continuing? could you ask dr. dean if he supports bernie sanders bill to allow 5 states to try single payer?
A former Senator from NH is now running for the Senate in FL. Was interviewed on my community radio station. Another uberreichwingnut free marketeer, forced-birther. 2 uberreichwingnuts (the other is Marco Rubio, former FL House Speaker) and Charlie “Bulldozer” Crist. This is gonna be so fun to watch.
Appears to be great determination on both the part of Obama and the D Party to ensure that voters are offered two starkly contrasting choices in 2012. Republican or Republican-Lite.
you know I know, none of the questions I asked got answered. Only a few indirectly and not adequately, e.g. single payer v. public option; how will the plan cover mental health care *and* drug addiction; What does he think of the carveouts, etc. etc. etc.
I think a chat on FDL would have been more dynamic.
I felt like the dirty hippy at the gate. Or that my questions were “too obscene” for consideration. But that’s just my personal issue I guess.
“Obama/Biden ‘12: What Are You Gonna Do, Vote For Palin?”
I was just doing some math. There are 51 Blue Dogs in the current coalition. If 38 of them defected, wouldn’t that change the majority in the House? You are right about them being able to sabotage anything the Dems want to do. Unfortunately, O’bama is showing some Blue Dog tendencies as well. He’s making me nervous.
I’m reasonably certain Newt’s cozying up to the God crowd of late is in preparation for a primary run. He is probably the only person on Earth who fails to comprehend that the likelihood of him ever being elected president is zero.
It would, but defections usually come in ones and twos. I think there’s a hardcore of maybe 5-10 Blue Dogs who might be willing to switch sides (Bright is definitely one of them), not enough to give the GOP the House. But they absolutely have way too much influence over what gets voted on.
What if he picked Fred Thompson as his running mate?
Uh-oh local CT news. Lieberman:
Senator lieberman says he will keep every legislative tool at his disposal to keep photos from being released. He plans to fight the release.
“To release the photos is sheer voyeurism”, he whines, etc. etc. blah blah blah.
Lieberman/Graham shit on a stick or stick on shit.
maybe that if we take out private insurance companies, we can save about $400 billion a year and then we could, for the same total cost, cover everyone with no copays, deductibles, etc.?
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/4557
or we could, um, put some lipstick on that private insurance pig and call progressive reform?
Cool video.
Reminds me (in a much more minor way) of my one and only ride in a glider, which is a tin can with long wings. It was at Sun Valley, and all day skiing I’d seen the glider over the ski area with the phone number on the belly. My son & I were crammed in the twin seats behind the pilot. After the tow rope was detached we floated around on the thermals. I was videoing out the window. At one point the pilot said: the best thing about gliding after the ski area closes is that now we can go skiing. Whereupon he banked the plane and scooped down within hairraising height about the ski runs. I have a great video of my lap while this was going on.
Now Dodd is running ads with Obama praising his credit card reform.
Ah TV!
It would certainly stamp out insomnia.
Suppressing photographic evidence of war crimes is The Most Important Legislation Evar.
Awesome.
I always wanted a ride in an F-4 Phantom.
I’m pretty sure he knows what happens if he runs: a parade of fellatrists and wannabe ex Mrs. Gingriches come out of the woodwork and punk his lily-white ass.
That said, I would never suggest that his caution overrides his temerity.
Why do you think Dean would support the public health care option over the usual suspects’ (Conyers, Kucinich, Jackson-Lee et al) idea for a bill?
Wow, sounds thrilling… sky-diving without having to jump through the door.
“sheer voyeurism” he said. Connecticut is not to blame for your woes. You’re all responsible for Connecticut’s woes. All of you! *pointing finger* /s
fyi – house hearing tomorrow (in response to unrelenting pressure!):
10:30 am – Examining the Single Payer Health Care Option
U.S. Rep. John Conyers, Jr. (D-MI)
Marcia Angell, M.D
Senior Lecturer in Social Medicine
Harvard Medical School
Boston, Massachusetts
David Gratzer
Senior Fellow
Manhattan Institute
Geri Jenkins, R.N.
Co-President
California Nurses Association/National Nurses Organizing Committee
San Diego, CA
Walter Tsou, M.D., M.P.H.
National Board Advisor
Physicians for a National Health Program
Philadelphia, PA
No sir, I am not jumping out of a perfectly good aircraft.
Bright eyed and bushy tailed.
I hope.
I can see that being used as the justification to suppress *all* FOIA requests in the future.
as far as i know dr. dean was never a supporter of single payer.
i really like dean on many things (50 state strategy, etc) but not so much on health care. :(
maybe he can be brought around though.
Here’s what Kucinich had to say about Obama’s health care proposals. He seems to think Obama’s all set to bail out the insurance companies and use health care dollars to do it.
http://briefingroom.thehill.co…..e-rip-off/
If we get a mandatory sign up for private policies and no decent public option, we are sunk. I think that’s what he sees coming over the hill.
Where’s Hammerstein and his buddy on Moyers? Damn.
Of course, that will all be raised by his opponents in the primary if it looks like he has a chance.
I really like Jimmy Carter as a former president. However, I’ll never forget how his surrogates brought up Chappaquiddick to fend off the primary challenge from Ted Kennedy in 1980.
yes, sheer voyeurism and not important evidence of criminal government activity. All those ACLU lawyers!
Me neither. If it is going to crash, no problem… although with my luck I’d probably get the backpack with the anvil inside.
here’s why i think the dem leadership is NOT spineless.
they will let lieberman run wild without penalty, but i bet they would have come down like a ton of bricks on any dem if one had used the same threats about getting the torture evidence out.
Thank you so much.
Disclosure: my mom likes kucinich and asked me why wasn’t considered a viable candidate for president.
It’s so crazy, it gives me a headache to think about it.Right now I’m pinching the bridge of my nose.
If you want that thrill, go paragliding with an instructor in tandem. Did that at Aspen in 1994. Huge thrill, low risk. You go up to the top of a double black ski run, parachute’s spread out behind you. Instructor sez run 12 steps downhill as fast as u can but you’re airborn after 6 steps. There is no sense of motion, so I remarked on that (u can see the rockies getting bigger and smaller as you go up & down on the thermals, and the beeper on the instructor’s shoulder tells him when he gets a thermal). He said: right unless you do tricks and started pulling alternatively on the control levers, making us swing back and forth. I asked: what does this look like from the ground, and he said: it looks like we’re going over the top of the parachute, which obviously we weren’t. I told him I’d had enough (mild motion sickness) and he stopped. But it was the thrill of a lifetime. (I have also jumped from a plane, which is even more thrilling, but completely terrifying, and I wouldn’t do it again. Did it before tandem parachuting was invented.)
it will be up to jenkins and tsou. don’t know either of them but the organizations they represent are imo OUTSTANDING.
I’ve flown in a lot of small planes and practiced stalls and stuff. The only thing that bothered me about helos was the fact that when something goes wrong the damn thing assumes the aerodynamics of a rock in a blink.
Years ago ago they could have had it at BFA (blogforamerica) but a few trolls got the run of the place and disgusted the progressives so much they left – like me for instance. BFA used to average around 350-400 posts on their blogs
Now? Notsomuch
thanks for that!
i agree with you, although i think any public option would be really easy to undermine via regulation (and i kinda see the insurance companies having more of a say in how that is written than us). hope i’m wrong on that.
my bottom line (subject to change) is that something like bernie sanders bill to let some states experiment with single payer has to be included.
Wasn’t he on Olberman last night, or was it Rachel. What did he say about it? I thought he was pro single payer?
Reminds me of this comment I was just reading
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-…..ment-11365
Well, the 1 hour of intertoobz I got this evening was fun but it’s time to crawl into my tree.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
I was very disappointed when I called my Congresscritter today. When she was in the California Assembly and Senate, she was reliably consumer friendly and exhibited strong ‘San Francisco values.’ Now she is in Tom Lantos’ old seat in CA-12. I asked her staff person about her position on single payer and she replied that she was for universal coverage but was not going to fight for single payer because she did not think the president would sign such a bill!!! Can this be happening? He would not sign a single payer if it passed????? I asked that they please fight for it anyway and let it be on him if he did not sign it, because I am going to blame her if it ends up a watered down mess or another gift to the insurance companies.
Oh, Marcia Angell. She wrote The Truth About the Drug Companies: How They Deceive Us and What to Do About It. I read it. I think everyone should.
jackie speier?!
that is a big disappointment
Did you tell her that it was because he was too short and the tall guys have an advantage? or that he makes too much sense and the majority is in denial about every problem we are faced with.
G’nite SD.
Sounds like fun. I understand Bush Sr. is going for another jump.
that’s right! (haven’t read it, but you’re not the first person to recommend it). also, she was pnhp’s recommendation for, iirc, health care reform czar.
i should have included her in the with jenkins and tsou. my bad.
Si, Jackie Speier. I kid you not. Give her office a call and see what they tell you.
good night to you and to all.
i’m off too……
A little bit of both I guess.
I think congresscritters who say Obama wouldn’t sign a passed bill for single payer insurance are just using that as an excuse.
I second, third or forth the book recommendation.
Are they? They are using it as an excuse for what?
i believe you. too many so-called progressives are wimping out. is there pressure from the top do you think?
for wimpery. or whatever.
And ironically, I believe Obama said he wasn’t pushing for single payer because he didn’t think it could get passed…
(He probably is right about that, though)
One of the few things that makes me admire him. I lost my adrenal junky status about 3 years ago.
It takes a certain steeliness to point fingers in the other direction./s
It sure would be nice to hear him say, “Hey, if they can pass single-payer, I’d be thrilled to sign it.”
Listen to what he says at the 32 second mark
About single-payer “everybody in, nobody out”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE
At 46 seconds
In order to get single-payer “1st we’ve gotta take back the Whitehouse; we’ve gotta take back the Senate; we’ve gotta take back the House”
Yet another incoherent Obama utterance. He said (iirc) that he might consider single payer if U.S. were starting from scratch, but had to go from the sys as it currently exists. Guess Obama doesn’t know about Medicare, Medicaid, govt employees system.
The Congressional wimps are saying we won’t fight for it because it won’t pass and Obama won’t sign it if it does. Obama is saying he won’t fight for it because it won’t pass. Is this some strange version of Catch-22?
It does look more and more as if we have been played and the fix is in. It makes me nervous.
Yes, I know what he SAID in that clip. I have watched a dozen times at least. I remember when he said it the first time. So, why wouldn’t he sign it if it passed?
Oh, and while we’re on Obama incoherent utterances, let’s go to yesterday NYT article on DPRK nukes, wherein Obama insists that we’ve (i.e., U.S.) have paid for something (presumeably non-nuke DPRK) twice and he won’t pay for it again. So he asserts that Clinton did so (no mention that the U.S. did not live up to its end of the bargain), and that W did so (no mention that W achieved NO bargain). So either the NYT scribe did not know anything, or Obama didn’t know anything, or Obama was lying. Geez, if U.S. “journalism” had deteriorated to the collection of airquotes from both sides, it seems that they could at least collect ONE quote from DPRK..
No, I guess he doesn’t know about Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, or the military health service system (the one true socialistic model).
Why am I not surprised.
No. Just DC! The Musical.
Yes, it beginning to look surreal when we might have to depend on the Chinese to be the honest brokers.
I’m on your side. I don’t know. He has genuinely been a disappointment to me
Gotta run all
L8r
And why do you think the Chinese are less honest than the U.S.?
Oh, right. Wasn’t that playing at the Kennedy Center for date night?
Not that they are less honest, just that we might have to depend on them. Actually, they are slipping into superpower status faster than one could have imagined a decade ago. They are taking the place of the US in just about every respect….economically, militarily, and they don’t have to worry about losing an election.
I really hate The economist. But when I’m in a waiting room, it’s somewhat more interesting than people magazine. So when a Chinese official posted a response to the “china uberalles” theme, I had to applaud, because I felt it was pretty true. China has big problems. Environmental, poverty wise they’re up there on the world poverty scale in terms of income per head (it’s pretty uneven), etc. . . China’s might is exaggerated. IMHO It’s not so much a superpower as a country in flux.
anything’s possible. anything.
Yes, it is a country in flux. Again, I am thinking how far they have come in the last decade….and poverty is a very hard thing to measure across different cultures and systems. China is just slipping back into its old quasi-feudal system. The names change but the dynamics are much like they used to be. Like every other place, corruption is their biggest problem and more so than poverty. They do not have to pretend to be a democracy. They don’t have to worry about being called socialistic or communistic. And they certainly are not going to lose sleep over being called ‘capitalist running dogs.’ They do have to worry about corruption.
And India.
http://www.cfr.org/publication/9663/
Single-payer: people pay taxes, everyone’s covered, gov’t pays tab
All private: people pay premiums, some aren’t covered, no gov’t involvement
Current sys: much private employee-based, some not covered, gov’t plan for some
Blue-dog compromise: ?
The medical industry wants all private with a mandate requiring everyone to buy insurance and make doctors even richer. But, they already charge us twice what they should, so their idea sucks EVEN WORSE than our current system.
I believe single-payer would be a disaster because there would be a lot of unemployed people and great disruption in the industry. I also don’t believe Americans approve of a Socialist approach as shown by the lack of legal support for such a thing in our Constitution.
The current system PLUS a gov’t option is a compromise to ensure everyone is covered without disrupting or eliminating the private sector business.
The only other direction to go is to push all the costs onto the private health care & insurance industry. They make far too much profit already, so there is certainly enough money there to pay for covering everybody. How gov’t might push the costs onto them isn’t exactly clear.
When the Blue Dogs or Republicans try to tell us single-payer isn’t an option because it’s too far Left and crazy and all that then what they’re doing is moving the center of the debate to the Right, toward more craziness than we already have.
When sensible people say the current system (much less an entirely pure all private system) is crazy and bankrupting us all then we move the center to the left.
I think a ‘public option’ is a decent compromise centrist position. But, if that’s not acceptable, then the answer isn’t to move further Right to make the health care & insurance industry RICHER. No, if we aren’t going to do the public option, then the better position is to force private industry to pay for it. Push the costs onto them.
Well, you now have the Kennedy Plan to digest….all 600 plus page of it. We need something simple and something that will save on administrative costs, paperwork and that will keep people from falling through the cracks. I don’ t think this is it. I don’t see the savings in admin. costs. People will have problems moving from one plan to another as their life situations shift…sometimes suddenly. We need a card we can walk into any hospital and be covered and that we can take to providers of our choice as long as they are liscensed and signed up and reviewed.
At any rate, I am still trying to sift through the Kennedy/Dodd plan to see what there is to see.
I prefer to call them the Corporate Democrats. They do not serve their voters, and they never have. They serve the corporate interests of their districts.