Did they attach the IMF funding and the detainee pictures amendment to this one?

Yes, by all means lets give aid and comfort to the conservative movement by handing our President a black eye. What a great strategy. Let’s go up to the White House lawn and pee on it, too.

My congressperson is not on your list
Rep Ed Perlmutter 202-225-2645

More like make our President keep his promises.

Seems to me that the President with whom you’re so unequivocally enamored also said the following:

“I like to know what I’m talking about before I open my mouth.”

just sayin’.

Also missing Diana Degette and Betsy Markey

ISn’t the Lieberman ammendment also attached to this bill that would require that the torture photos not be released?

I called Maurice Hinchey in both DC and locally. No one knows how he’s voting. They don’t even SEEM to know exactly what the bill is. I am a supporter of Hinchey’s, and am very disturbed by this reaction from his office and have never encountered such ignorance from his staff before.

I can only surmise that he, too, is under extreme pressure on this. I’ve NEVER before called and been told such a know-nothing answer.

I try to remember the lesson taught by King Knute, there are some things even a king cannot command.

In our case, we must understand that even President Obama cannot instantly turn the tide of fascism that has engulfed our nation.

Which does not mean we shouldn’t keep reminding him of our high expectations, it just means we have to keep in mind that politics consists mainly of crafting what is possible.

I also like to keep in mind that considering how much effort we have all put out over the last thirty years, we’ve pretty much got the government we deserve.

The list of people is comprised of those who a) voted against the supplemental the first time, or b) cosigned Maxine Waters’ letter expressing concern over the IMF funding.

Perlmutter, Markey and Degette all voted for the supplemental the first time.

I just spoke with Hannah in Rep Tierney’s office (MA-6) and she was very pleasant and promised to pass on to the Rep all my comments. I am a constituent – i volunteered that info. I also said i was proud of Rep Tierney and she was quite pleased.

Better a black eye for Obama than a crappy policy for America.

Don’t we need to change some minds in addition to retaining those who voted against the first time? Isn’t the addition of the Lierman ammendment to the original bill cover for them to change?

My representative is Hines. Does his absence from the list mean he voted against the supplemental? If he didn’t, I’d like to tell him he should reconsider. Why leave people who voted for the supplemental off the list? If we can rattle their cages, I think we should.

My rep is Gwen Moore (D-WI). Just in case you want to audit your fine whip tool, I talked to Erin, who said Rep. Moore had not yet made a decision. That suggests to me that the black caucus is wavering.

good luck with that firepups!

as usual, there is no ‘or else’ in your beseeching, because Congresscritters know that ‘progressives’ will continue to vote (D) no matter what they do to you, whereas Rahm Emmanuel will find a way to get them where it hurts a bit if they do not comply when he ratchets up the pressure.

Nope, we can actually lose quite a few. We only need 38, we already have 10, and there are:

- 51 who voted against the supplemental
- 18 who voted for the supplemental, but who are concerned about the IMF
- Nadler and Slaughter, who are none of the above but won’t vote for Lieberman photos.

We need to carve 28 more. And the universe is potentially bigger, because many people are concerned about Lieberman.

You are right on the money GoodScout.

How sad and misguided that a handful of congressional Democrats are willing to side with the most reactionary of right-wing Republicans to try and defeat HR2346. (albeit for different reasons)

The net result will be to weaken Obama politically — prevent Obama from keeping the commitment he made at the G20 in April, namely for the US to guaranty loans to help poor countries weather the economic meltdown.

Nice work “faux progressives”. Who cares what the third world poor need right? After all, there is an agenda to stick to. Releasing more torture photos, humiliating the US and endangering US diplomats and soldiers overseas.

I want to speak clearly. Those who take this tact are in the minority. Polls clearly show that even 6 out of 10 liberals do not support releasing these photos.

Who cares what the third world poor need right?

Well obviously they need more drone attacks, according to O-Bomb-a.

Total agreement from here. “Over the last 30 years we have gotten the govt that we wanted.” I would also like to point out the only 65% of registered voters actually voted in 2008. Check out the numbers in your local elections. We just had our city council/ mayor elections. In a city of over 1,270,000 people, the 7th largest city in the US, 75,000 people voted. In some precincts no voters showed up.
My biggest gripe. Right now 50% of the kids who enter HS never graduate. 50%. HTF are we supposed to continue to be a first world country when 1/2 the kids drop out??
Seriously. My understanding is that many-what % I don’t know, but more than 15%-drop out because they are BORED.
Then we have the proof that lots of people do not pay any attention to anything, the TV changeover to digital. I wonder just how many sheeple vidiots are going to wake up and stare dumbly at their blank TV screens and scream, BUT NOBODY TOLD ME
The US is going to die much faster than I thought it would, simply because the generations to come are mostly going to be only able to work menial jobs because they lack the education to work at the technological jobs required to keep the country running, but they will not work at any job that requires actual physical labor either. Picking fruits and veggies for example. 1 grower needed pickers, in an area of high unemployment he offered up to $12 an hour. The only ones who showed up were the migrants many of whom were illegals. Where I used to live a big resort attempted to hire housekeepers, offered $15 an hour-over 30% unemployment there-he finally had to import housekeepers from Jamaica. We are so screwed.

The IMF pledge Obama made at the G20 had nothing to do with drone attacks. It was a very progressive outreach to poor third-world countries, showing that the US was committed to helping them ride out the severe economic downturn.

Also, the Pakistan-drone issue is a complicated one and any attempt to simplify it and drape it in 1960’s era anti-war rhetoric is misguided.

Yep, we have gotten the govt we deserve. 40 authoritarian rethugs and 59 spineless dems

Interesting you bring up the 1960s, when LBJ had some very promising ideas about ending poverty and promoting civil rights, but also had a problem with bombing other countries. And we know how that turned out.

Wow i was having a decent day until you reminded me of the bleak outlook of our future. I always thought education was pretty decent in america until i went to college. As is turns out i went to a pretty decent public school in Jersey, but the only people who seemed to know what it was to study hard and take good notes came from private and parochial schools. Alot of the public school college kids i knew amazed me that they even got into college. People in less afluent school districts are really at a disadvantage educationally and at the same time, are conditioned by MTV and other reality shows that success comes easy and nothing takes hard work. We have a lot of work still a head of us . . .

Those were different times with a much different set of international realities. It is very easy to blog and post from the comfort of one’s living room. Obama has to make tough decisions in a very fluid, uncertain world.

I also believe Obama is as progressive a leader as this country will ever elect. We are basically a centrist country that moves back and forth and any attempt to force-feed a far-left agenda will inevitably result in a voter back-lash. I for one, among many, am committed to not letting that happen; the stakes are too high. I don’t need Obama to be perfect — you need to give on some issues.

you need to give on some issues.

Such as revoking FOIA? No thanks.

No one is seeking to revoke FOIA. TBut there are limits as to what information the general public should be able to see as this case proves. When making information public is deemed to be harmful to the greater good, I have no problem keeping it under wraps.

I absolutely believe that the majority of the “release the photos” sentiment out there is based on an understandable but irrational hatred of Bush-Cheney and a blood-lust for revenge that clouds ordinarily sound judgment. I am very appreciative that Barack Obama is the one making this decision.

I am very appreciative that Barack Obama is the one making this decision.

Dear Leader is so wise. I hope he makes more decisions that keep us ignorant!

You are not on the money redfish-why redfish BTW? are redfish left wing fish? The IMF couldn’t care less about third world countries. As for the war supplemental, the Talmud asks-if not now, when? Do you want change or are you willing to wait indefinitely for someone other than yourself to bring it about? Do you really think we will win in Afghanistan with Predator drones? If you do, I don’t think your guess is as good as mine, (we won’t) but we shall have to wait and see.

No one is ignorant as to what those pictures depict. We all know they show — torture, abuse and inhumane treatment of detainees. Obama was clear as to why he does not support releasing those photos.

I have no blood lust and I don’t even hate Bush/Cheney. I simply think that we should have to face what we did and own it. Some terrible things were done in my name and I don’t like it one little bit. We are not above other nations and we are supposed to be better than torture. Let’s clean up our act and then get on with business.

Yes, everybody knows that boat is leaking. Everybody knows that the captain lied.

But bombing civilians inflames tensions as well, and that’s okay.

Redfish is the title of a painting I have in my home.

IMF analysis aside, at the G20 Obama made this gesture to demonstrate to the 3rd world that his administration is concerned with their financial recovery as well as that of the United States. Gestures like these are important when POTUS makes them. Just as Obama’s speech in Cairo sent a message. It’s called effective leadership.

Interesting to quote the Talmud. I say if not now, never when it comes to those photos. And I am seeing plenty of change in this administration – slow, methodical, thoughtful, politically pragmatic change.

I don’t think winning with drones is the issue. Afghanistan and Pakistan are incredibly complex problems and Obama’s policy there to date is thoughtful and just beginning. I for one have no problem killing Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders. I think killing civilians is horrific and is a very unfortunate by-product of the insanity that has permeated that region for countless decades. There is no easy answer.

Killing civilians is not ok. So, I ask you – what is your solution?

They don’t call Afghanistan the graveyard of empires for nothing. Oh, but our empire is DIFFERENT. (Much more hubris.)

I think what you said is reasonable and I understand the sentiments. I think Obama has dealt with it by committing to close Gitmo and outlawing water boarding and torture. A long bloody public show trial will be a disaster for Obama’s administration and severely curtail his ability to get things done.

There is no public appetite for this. Read the polls, CNN most recently. 6 out of 10 liberals do not want those photos released.

Stop the wars, stop the bombings, get out of other people’s countries, and attend to our own needs. We meddled in Iran in 1953 and created enemies, we meddled in Afghanistan in the 80s and created the Taliban. We need to stop thinking that we’re so damned smart (”Best and Brightest”), and look at how the world perceives our actions.

Unlike Iraq, Afghanistan is connected to 9-11, that is a fact. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are really bad people and in the context of an unstable Pakistan it’s a huge problem. These people want to kill us and not just us. There is no easy solution.

On military policy, Obama is getting smacked around by Cheney’s neoconservatives like a 5th grader getting his lunch money taken by the schoolyard bully. The way to restore balance from the far-right fascist policies of Bush is to move strongly left. If Obama doesn’t have the backbone for it, he isn’t the man he promised to be.

America elected democrats on purpose – to be liberal democrats. If we wanted triangulation and a warmed-over conservative agenda served on a democratic platter, we’d have thrown in with Hillary. If you are a democrat, please spare those of us who are not your speculation about why we supported Obama.

We are attending to our needs. We were attacked on 9-11. Go ahead and say it. We deserved it? If not shall we leave and let the Taliban and their Al Qaeda buddies just do their thing unfettered? Get real!

We will never win there. The Taliban can just run over the border to Pakistan and come back to fight the next day. So sad.

Oh jeebus gawd. Dubya couldn’t have said it better.

It’s not a matter of backbone kgb – we are not a far-left country. Obama is as far left as this country is ever going to elect in my opinion and he is a pragmatist. That is why he won. Progressives would be well served to understand this.

That Overton window just won’t stay closed by itself.

Twain exactly – this is why Pakistan is as much a part of the problem and solution as is Afghanistan. I believe eventually the people will tire of the Taliban and Al Qaeda and there will be a pushback.

I just talked to Sarah at Jerry Costello’s (IL-12) D.C. office. She said that Mr. Costello has very strong concerns about the supplemental in its current form, but did not state definitively that he is voting against it (he did vote against it in its original form). I let her know my concerns (I’m a constituent in Alton, IL) and she promised to pass the word.

Health care is a perfect example. I personally support single-payer. That will never, ever happen here. Obama knows this and is going to compromise some but insist on a public health option. I support his efforts because I think the result will be better than nothing.

That’s political pragmatism. That is how you get legislation past. Obama and the left do not have a bullet proof battering ram.

David Kilcullen writes:

Press reports suggest that over the last three years drone strikes have killed about 14 terrorist leaders. But, according to Pakistani sources, they have also killed some 700 civilians. This is 50 civilians for every militant killed, a hit rate of 2 percent — hardly “precision.” American officials vehemently dispute these figures, and it is likely that more militants and fewer civilians have been killed than is reported by the press in Pakistan. Nevertheless, every one of these dead noncombatants represents an alienated family, a new desire for revenge, and more recruits for a militant movement that has grown exponentially even as drone strikes have increased.

Second, public outrage at the strikes is hardly limited to the region in which they take place — areas of northwestern Pakistan where ethnic Pashtuns predominate. Rather, the strikes are now exciting visceral opposition across a broad spectrum of Pakistani opinion in Punjab and Sindh, the nation’s two most populous provinces. Covered extensively by the news media, drone attacks are popularly believed to have caused even more civilian casualties than is actually the case. The persistence of these attacks on Pakistani territory offends people’s deepest sensibilities, alienates them from their government, and contributes to Pakistan’s instability.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05…..7exum.html

Of course, he was only a counterinsurgency adviser to Gen. David Petraeus, so you know he’s misguidingly draped his Op-Ed in 1960’s era anti-war rhetoric.

As I said civilian deaths are horrific and wrong. They disturb me greatly and I would warrant they disturb Obama greatly as well. I don’t have a magic answer, neither does anyone. It is going to take years and years to stabilize Afghanistan and Pakistan. if that is even possible.

Jane ‘Spy #34Z8′ Harman is voting for perpetual war.

She must be kicked out of office ASAP.

Jane Harman does not vote for perpetual war. She is my congresswoman and I have met her and talked to her on numerous occasions over the years.

Well then maybe you should talk to her again. Her office staff might be against perpetual war, but she has never turned down a military death weapons contract, is gloriously constant about giving the Isreali war machine whatever it wants. She voted for the anti-democratic unAmerican give-all-power-to-the-Military Act.

Harman is a shameless war mongering ennabler and if you actually believe her duplicitousness on support of perpetual war than you probly voted for Schwarzenegaar too.

Go ahead, call her up, the number is 202-225-2201. Ask her about cluster bombs while you are at it.

I have a feeling those photos are worse than photos we’ve seen. They probably add something new and we may as well face up to it. It’s time we as a nation took responsibility for what we’ve been doing for quite a while. Take Iran. We knocked over a liberal, secular, democratically elected government (so much for our promoting democracy) to install the Shah. We did it for cheap oil. People disappeared or were tortured. You cannot blame the Ayatolah for calling us the Great Satan.

As for Pakistan and Afghanistan, you confuse terrorists with nations. Suppose Bin Laden used the Afghan hinterlands to train his people. That doesn’t make the people of Afghanistan responsible. It’s like holding the State of Michigan responsible for Timothy McVeigh. Terrorism is an individual, not a national act. Terrorism won’t be defeated by conquering some state or other. For one thing we don’t have the manpower. For another, even if we were to conquer Iraq and Afghanistan and install “friendly” governments, it is at best a short term solution, just as the Shah was a short term and short sighted solution. The only answer to Iraq and Afghanistan is to get out now. If Iran benefits or if the Taliban take over we deal with them-not militarily. More of the same gets us nothing but more of the same. How much time must pass to convince you Obama’s “new” initiatives are as ineffective as Bush’s?

No I didn’t vote for Arnold, I have never voted for a Republican in my life. You clearly don’t understand that Jane Harmon is not an extreme left Democrat. She is Chair of the Intelligence Subcommittee and a member of the Blue Dog Coalition – who are members of the Democratic Party last I heard and the reason we have a majority in both houses of Congress.

There are millions of liberal Progressives who support a strong military. Sorry you don’t agree.

Ekunin I agree that the unreleased photos are probably horrific. WE have taken responsibility, Obama has saod many times this country made mistakes and he has also said we will not torture and we will close Gitmo. He wants to move on and I support that perspective, a blood letting to satisfy the blood lust of Bush-Cheney haters is not conducive to working towards Obama’s goals.

I am sorry you choose to side with the Ayatollah who countenanced the kidnapping and holding of American citizens. Shame on you. Yes, the US made mistakes we are far from perfect – that was a long time ago.

Your take on Afghanistan and terrorism is unfortunately wrong. The Taliban and their brutal repressive regime controlled Afghanistan and gave Al Qaeda safe harbor to train and operate. You know this I am sure. This resulted in 9-11. We have zero interest in conquering Afghanistan — we want the radicals to stop trying to kill us.

Get out now? Leave Afghanistan to the Taliban and Al Qaeda to operate at will? Geez, thank God people who think like you are not in charge.

As for the Taliban, we put them in power or gave them the means to gain power. We wanted to beat the Russians. We believed, yet again, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, a superficial judgment that gave Cambodia Pol Pot, another bloody mess we’d like to forget.

As for Afghanistan, no one controls it in the hinterlands, certainly not the central government. It is possible, likely, Bin Laden did his thing without the Taliban knowing about it. They may have approved, but that’s understandable. You cannot make the kinds of mistakes we have made and then say that’s past, let’s forget it. In terms of blood even before 9/11 we were responsible for the deaths of more Muslims than they of westerners. It’s a stupid competition. I mention it because you seem to think the past is irrelevant. It is not.

Geez, people who think like you have been in charge for years. Don’t think it’s anything to be proud of.

Yes, yes, yes we did that in the 1980’s — a very different time and place. The USSR was the 800 pound gorilla in the room then.

No, people who think like me have ‘not’ been in charge in this country for years. I am radical a progressive on social issues as there is and I am sure we would find common ground on many more issues than not. We can disagree on some things too.

I happen to believe that religious fanatic extremists like Bin Laden and the Taliban fundamentally disagree with how we live and their mission is Sharia law, etc. They want to kill us. I am not willing to enable them on this. Sorry. I do remember innocent Americans leaping to their deaths on 9-11, their bodies on fire.

Wrong! Americans do not support perpetual war, no matter what Harman might tell you on the cocktail party circuit. And perpetual war puts America more at risk.

Creating all sorts of death weapons does not equate to a strong military. What it does is cement a terrible production economy and unsustainable use of resources designed for killing people. FOR KILLING PEOPLE!

You want to be strong and courageous. Fine. Get past the semantics and the euphemisms of ‘military intelligence’ and actually confront these so-called representatives on their war mongering, just as I am confronting you on that particular American sin of violence: the general slaughter of civilian populations or in Harmans crazed lingusitic world ‘full spectrum warfare’.

This twisted, no it’s really demented, vision of patriotism is dooming us all to a world of perpetual violence that will only create more violence, and a misuse of resources that is hurtling our planet into a rapid and severe phase of climate change.

You are wrong redfish. Time to grow up. Time to rejoin the world and stop making war upon it becasue some general or some spook moonlighting for a foreign govt or the oils cos tell you so.

Did Harman give you an answer on cluster bomb production? Make sure you ask her next time over your glasses of chilled chardonnay. She certainly won’t return my calls, or the calls of most of her constituents.

I do not support perpetual war. I want nothing more than for fanatical extremists to stop killing innocent people on subways in London, on trains in Spain, in embassy’s in Africa and in New York City. Obama is not Bush-Cheney.

War is a terrible byproduct of where we have “not advanced” as a species on the evolutionary scale. I hate war, I don’t want war. But, there are just and necessary wars and unjust wars of choice. WWII was a just war, Vietnam was not. Iraq was not but Afghanistan was and is.

The Obama administration is not slaughtering civilian populations. That unwarranted inflammatory hyperbole only serves to weaken your argument. No one ‘wants’ to kill civilians. We bombed Dresden in WWII and killed 35,000 civilians, I could go on and on. War sucks, war is hell.

I am not wrong — and most Americans agree with me on Afghanistan not you.

Responsible and intelligent Americans take stands on issues based on the merits. I intensely despise Joe Lieberman for a myriad of things. But on this issue he happens to be right and I agree 100% with this statement as do 6 out of 10 liberals according to a CNN poll:

“The release of the photos will serve as propaganda and recruiting tool for terrorists who seek to attack American citizens at home and abroad. We should strive to have as open a government as possible, but the behavior depicted in the photos has been prohibited and is being investigated. The photos do not depict anything that is not already known. Transparency, and in this case needless transparency, should not be paid for with the lives of American citizens, let alone the lives of our men and women in uniform fighting on our behalf in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.

“Let it clearly be understood that without this legislation the photos in question are likely to be released. Such a release would be tantamount to a death sentence to some who are serving our nation in the most dangerous and difficult spots like Iraq and Afghanistan”.

You are wrong. Most Americans do not want perpetual war.

Jane Harman funds perpetual war and has done so consistently during her terms as Congresswoman for the California 36th. As far as Obama goes that might be different but that is a different discussion. We were talking about Harman.

Stay on subject please!

Cluster bombs, advanced robotic weaponry, and mass slaughter are what America is producing and exporting today. Harman loves all that stuff, or else she would vote against continued incessant funding of death weapons production.

If you hate war than you really should stop supporting Jane Harman. And if you support Harman than you have blood on your hands. Confront it! I know it is difficult but if we Americans want to be treated with dignity than we must end feeding the war machine and allowing nutjobs like Harman to continue wasting our tax dollars of death weapons.

How radical are you on social issues? Single payer health insurance? How do you feel about the bailouts? Don’t you see the huge investment in our military means we can’t make those radical changes you claim to want? Afghanistan is not a just war. Do you realy think the Afghan nation was complicit in 9-11 to the point of justifying an invasion?

It’s true orthodox Muslims get spooky, (orthodox anyone gets spooky) but sorting things out is like finding fault in a dysfunctional marriage. There’s plenty of blame to go around. It’s not that we support Israel as such, but Israel is expansionary. It’s true they are the only conquerers in recent memory to return conquered territory voluntarily, but they also said they would return to the 1967 borders and then changed their mind. They treat arabs in Israel and out badly. They say it’s because Hamas lobs missles, but to King George, Washington was a terrorist. It depends on whose ox gets gored.

You say Vietnam and Iraq were not just wars, but we are in Iraq and seem prepared to stay there indefinitely. Our problem as an empire is we think we can succeed where others fail. The effete French couldn’t hang on to Vietnam, so we would show them. Same is true for Afghanistan. No one, not even Alexander the Great, could conquer them, but we will and we intend to do it by sponsoring a truly corrupt government and blowing up wedding parties. Hey sorry about that. Everyone makes mistakes especially when you sit in Nevada and pull the trigger on a drone in Afghanistan. Our tax dollars at work. You say war is hell. We’d stop except the bad guys won’t let us. Time to think along different lines.

Jane Harmon does not fund perpetual war. There has never been a bill introduced to perpetuate perpetual war. That is your hyperbole and it is just that. Issues must be looked at individually and in context.

Your use of inflammatory rhetoric like ‘mass slaughter’ does nothing to advance this dialogue.

Tax dollars going to fund a strong military is something I support and if you were a patriotic American you would too. The question is not a well equipped military — it is when and how that power is used.

I am very radical on social issues, single payer health care should be a right, gay marriage, etc.

As I have said previously though, each issue must be evaluated on it’s merits and in context. Yes, I think the US invasion of Afghanistan was totally and completely justified and I hope we kill every single Taliban and Al Qaeda member that lives today. They are religious fanatics whose actions are so beyond the pale that I think they have relinquished any right to live in a civilized world.

That does not excuse past US transgressions, but there is no question we are the good guys in this conflict.

We aren’t the good guys in Afghanistan. We haven’t been the good guys since WWII. That’s the problem. Even if we were good guys in Afghanistan, it doesn’t make up for the bad guy time which you concede. Our national policy has been hypocritical. We say we are for democracy but we support the royal family in Saudi Arabia (among other despots). Speaking of which 15 out of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. We should have invaded them.

Well redfish you showed your colors there…your accusations of me being unpatriotic reflect the general lunacy that has led this nation to engaging perpetual war.

You can smile and call yourself a peaceful person in public. Just be sure the wipe the blood off your face before you kiss the death weapons makers ringfinger.

What was it that is hidden beneath your colonialism?

So enticing is the warm call of war that you call it justifiable!

Sad and sickening I think, and a clear example of the etiology of the gangrene aspects of your Americanism that is so distant from anything rational, or life-affirming.

Well, we knew your kind would not stop their spinning dance, no matter how obvious the immorality or the suffering. But we will not go away. This is our America, free from war and racism and the death spiral of ticking bombs and corrupt congresspeople. Go find someone else to try and convince. I have already chosen that the only enemy here is war.

It is not your America apple pie. You can keep on saying what you do that’s your right. No one is listening.

Cede America to the likes of you? I would sooner drink with killers.

It is your time that is over. Sure hundreds, maybe thousands, more American youth will get physically and emotionally destroyed by your wars because you are not honest enough to admit that your wars are a lost cause (or maybe you cannot imaging a life without war?), but war is unsustainable.

The re-creation of an economy that is built on weapons is unsustainable. The underlying hatred of your colonialism is unsustainable. And America is about creating a sustainable life. That is why my grandparents came here, and many others do to this day. Cretins like Harman have taken money from the worst forces in our laissez-faire capitalist society, and then convinced dupes like you that she is protecting you from the ‘enemies’. You are being played by these pols but either you lack the wits to understand that or you are in league with them. In either event, that is a misunderstanding of what America is. It is a misunderstanding of the events that made our culture so remarkable, and it is a veiled and barren vision of the future.

Can you yet understand the metaphor?

Ohhh…probly not…

I always find the vitriol and hatred that comes from many called compassionate progressives disturbing. My perspective is that reasonable people can find common ground on some issues and agree to disagree on other issues.

These are not my wars as you say. I was against the Iraq war but I am for our intervention in Afghanistan. There are countless Democrats and Liberals who feel exactly the same way as I do and for you to demonize those who feel that way is decidedly unfair.

We do not have an economy built on weapons. That is not correct. We are not a colonial power that is also incorrect.To call Jane Harmon a cretin is rude and disrespectful. She is helping to protect us from the enemy and it is unfortunate that you don’t realize that. Al Qaeda wants to kill you too.

You call me a dupe and suggest I lack the wits to understand these issues — because I don’t agree with you. Pure ad hominem personal attacks – of course the moderator won’t call you on it. No surprise there.

I understand that 3,000 Americans lost their lives on 9-11 and that those people were given safe harbor and support by the Taliban. They are still in that part of the world planning and carrying out attacks on the West. I’m sorry – that is not ok with me and millions of others.

I was arrested climbing the Pentagon walls on bedsheets during the Vietnam era, I am as radical socially as they come. No one despised Bush-Cheney et al any more than I. I bow to no one as far as my progressive credentials are concerned. But I look at each issue singularly — I am not a kool-aid drinker.

Gee, you can attack me, as you did numerous times since your first misshapen post, you can attack all the Americans who do not believe in perpetual war, you can even side with known death weapons ennablers and patsies who follow foreign govts marching orders (and if you think I am being ‘rude’ to her than you would have no place in the formative times of our nation nor do you understand the basic tenets of participatory democracy.)

But why are you attacking the moderatars? They are giving you bandwidth to spout your nonsense. Have you sense of gratitude or understanding for even that?

Because your ad hominem personal attacks should not be allowed, that’s why. Stick to the issues.