Comments on: NY-23: With McHugh Headed to Army, Sprawling District Presents Challenge for Democrats http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 08:28:03 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: TobyWollin http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913432 TobyWollin Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:00:16 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913432 <p>hehehe..you can pick nits all you want — I’m in Arcuri’s district also and I’ve heard folks down here refer to those particular ‘winter recreation vehicles’ both ways, but I will bow to your greater familiarity. :)</p> hehehe..you can pick nits all you want — I’m in Arcuri’s district also and I’ve heard folks down here refer to those particular ‘winter recreation vehicles’ both ways, but I will bow to your greater familiarity. :)

]]> By: Teddy Partridge http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913414 Teddy Partridge Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:55:23 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913414 <p>Aubertine moving up means his Senate seat is up for grabs. Do you think a Democrat can hold that? Because if a GOP gets it, the state Senate is all tied up. I don’t think New Yorkers can afford that craziness again.</p> Aubertine moving up means his Senate seat is up for grabs. Do you think a Democrat can hold that? Because if a GOP gets it, the state Senate is all tied up. I don’t think New Yorkers can afford that craziness again.

]]> By: mlshore http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913314 mlshore Sun, 07 Jun 2009 03:06:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913314 <p>Yeah, it’s jobs jobs jobs, and jobs. I think that someone who runs in NY-23 on a national progressive platform is going to lose, big time, so they really need to get that sorted out. The collapse in ethanol prices leading to the shutting down of NY’s only ethanol plant, which was located in Jefferson County, is another big issue because it cascaded down to farms. And if a Democratic candidate can’t get the jobs issue nailed down, while I’d rather see someone genuinely liberal get in there, better a Blue Dog Democrat than a Republican. I’m in Michael Arcuri’s district and while I’m no fan I’m glad it’s a moderate Democrat instead of a moderate Republican. Upping the head count gives people like Feingold more power. But Hillary Clinton is a great example. By the time she left office she had a lot of fans in places you’d never expect, like Binghamton and Rome, because she was bringing in a bunch of defense manufacturing jobs and working on legislation to help keep people on their farms. </p> <p>[Picking nits, the only people I’ve seen or heard in northern or central NY refer to those things as “snow machines” are local dog mushers puttin’ on the Alaska (speaking as a dog musher and snowmobile club member who spends a lot of time at Tug Hill). Check out the NY board on trailconditions.com or the NY State Snowmobile Association bulletin boards to see written examples of Tug Hill denizens talking about their gizmos.]</p> Yeah, it’s jobs jobs jobs, and jobs. I think that someone who runs in NY-23 on a national progressive platform is going to lose, big time, so they really need to get that sorted out. The collapse in ethanol prices leading to the shutting down of NY’s only ethanol plant, which was located in Jefferson County, is another big issue because it cascaded down to farms. And if a Democratic candidate can’t get the jobs issue nailed down, while I’d rather see someone genuinely liberal get in there, better a Blue Dog Democrat than a Republican. I’m in Michael Arcuri’s district and while I’m no fan I’m glad it’s a moderate Democrat instead of a moderate Republican. Upping the head count gives people like Feingold more power. But Hillary Clinton is a great example. By the time she left office she had a lot of fans in places you’d never expect, like Binghamton and Rome, because she was bringing in a bunch of defense manufacturing jobs and working on legislation to help keep people on their farms.

[Picking nits, the only people I’ve seen or heard in northern or central NY refer to those things as “snow machines” are local dog mushers puttin’ on the Alaska (speaking as a dog musher and snowmobile club member who spends a lot of time at Tug Hill). Check out the NY board on trailconditions.com or the NY State Snowmobile Association bulletin boards to see written examples of Tug Hill denizens talking about their gizmos.]

]]> By: TobyWollin http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913313 TobyWollin Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:32:29 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913313 <p>Teddy — although there is a lot of ‘Upstate New York is conservative and Republican’ - I’ve lived here my whole life and what I have always seen is ‘not necessarily liberal - but definitely pragmatists’. That’s how Bobby Kennedy got elected. That’s how Moynihan got elected. That’s how Hillary Clinton got elected. Any Democrat who runs has to show that he or she can run faster, jump higher, understands the economic and military issues in the district a helluva lot better and can bring the bacon back to the district. That is how that person will get it done. If Upstate NY is part of the Rustbelt - NY-23 is the buckle on the Rustbelt. If Darrell Aubertine has shown that he can bring money into the district or understands how to work the economic development system, then he’s got a terrific shot.</p> Teddy — although there is a lot of ‘Upstate New York is conservative and Republican’ – I’ve lived here my whole life and what I have always seen is ‘not necessarily liberal – but definitely pragmatists’. That’s how Bobby Kennedy got elected. That’s how Moynihan got elected. That’s how Hillary Clinton got elected. Any Democrat who runs has to show that he or she can run faster, jump higher, understands the economic and military issues in the district a helluva lot better and can bring the bacon back to the district. That is how that person will get it done. If Upstate NY is part of the Rustbelt – NY-23 is the buckle on the Rustbelt. If Darrell Aubertine has shown that he can bring money into the district or understands how to work the economic development system, then he’s got a terrific shot.

]]> By: Teddy Partridge http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913311 Teddy Partridge Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:18:13 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913311 <p>Here’s DKos diarist <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6/6/16624/35285" rel="nofollow">silver spring</a> today, with the political history of this district:</p> <blockquote><p>It turns out that NY-23 is a true political anomaly. It is one of only two remaining districts in the United States where at least part of the district has not been represented by a Democrat since 1852 (the other is Pennsylvania’s 16th District which includes Lancaster County, most of which has not been represented by a Democrat since 1830. Tennessee’s 2nd District last elected a Democrat in 1852. Btw, there no longer are any comparable Democratic-held districts; all have gone Republican at least once since 1850, although a few in Texas held out until the DeLay redistricting of 2004.)</p> <p>If Democrats win NY-23 in a special election to be held later this year, it will therefore be the first time in 159 years that a Democrat is elected to represent at least a part of the district. The map below gives you an idea of how long it’s been since parts of the district have been Democratic-held. Almost two-thirds of the population of the current district (62%) live in territory that has not elected a Democrat since 1890 or earlier. It really is mind-boggling …. (for those political geeks interested in more history about this district, I provide additional information below the map).</p></blockquote> Here’s DKos diarist silver spring today, with the political history of this district:

It turns out that NY-23 is a true political anomaly. It is one of only two remaining districts in the United States where at least part of the district has not been represented by a Democrat since 1852 (the other is Pennsylvania’s 16th District which includes Lancaster County, most of which has not been represented by a Democrat since 1830. Tennessee’s 2nd District last elected a Democrat in 1852. Btw, there no longer are any comparable Democratic-held districts; all have gone Republican at least once since 1850, although a few in Texas held out until the DeLay redistricting of 2004.)

If Democrats win NY-23 in a special election to be held later this year, it will therefore be the first time in 159 years that a Democrat is elected to represent at least a part of the district. The map below gives you an idea of how long it’s been since parts of the district have been Democratic-held. Almost two-thirds of the population of the current district (62%) live in territory that has not elected a Democrat since 1890 or earlier. It really is mind-boggling …. (for those political geeks interested in more history about this district, I provide additional information below the map).

]]> By: Margot http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913310 Margot Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:16:17 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913310 <p>That sounds like a great place to visit.<br /> I wonder how many people in that district would welcome a public option health plan?</p> That sounds like a great place to visit.
I wonder how many people in that district would welcome a public option health plan?

]]> By: Teddy Partridge http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913309 Teddy Partridge Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:14:39 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913309 <p>Well, no. But if our progressive money is to mean anything at all, I think we have to ask the candidate if s/he will forswear joining the Blue Dogs. And explicitly state that revving up the progressive netroots small money machine is dependent on the county leaders choosing a candidate who so forswears.</p> <p>People will probably give money through other avenues, but the progressive spigot needs to be closed to candidates so enamored of the Blue Dogs that they, like Scott Murphy, announce before they are chosen that they can’t wait to join up.</p> <p>I don’t expect a district like this to elect a member of the Progressive Caucus, but the best we can hope for is a non-aligned Democrat, don’t you think?</p> <p>And, no, I think a Democrat is better than any Republican, although I don’t like to see the caucus pulled right to accommodate Democratic members from red districts. This district isn’t red, though — so we should have an expectation of getting a decent Democrat, don’t you think?</p> Well, no. But if our progressive money is to mean anything at all, I think we have to ask the candidate if s/he will forswear joining the Blue Dogs. And explicitly state that revving up the progressive netroots small money machine is dependent on the county leaders choosing a candidate who so forswears.

People will probably give money through other avenues, but the progressive spigot needs to be closed to candidates so enamored of the Blue Dogs that they, like Scott Murphy, announce before they are chosen that they can’t wait to join up.

I don’t expect a district like this to elect a member of the Progressive Caucus, but the best we can hope for is a non-aligned Democrat, don’t you think?

And, no, I think a Democrat is better than any Republican, although I don’t like to see the caucus pulled right to accommodate Democratic members from red districts. This district isn’t red, though — so we should have an expectation of getting a decent Democrat, don’t you think?

]]> By: TobyWollin http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913308 TobyWollin Sun, 07 Jun 2009 02:01:57 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913308 <p>Teddy — so, do we take the position that the only Democrat that is acceptable is someone who refuses to be a Blue Dog? Not that I think my rep, Arcuri(the next district down and he’s a dyed in the wool Blue Dog)is such a great whoopdeedoo - he’s not. I despise him and have told him numerous times in my emails and faxes to him. But do we take the position that any Rethug is better than a Blue Dog?</p> Teddy — so, do we take the position that the only Democrat that is acceptable is someone who refuses to be a Blue Dog? Not that I think my rep, Arcuri(the next district down and he’s a dyed in the wool Blue Dog)is such a great whoopdeedoo – he’s not. I despise him and have told him numerous times in my emails and faxes to him. But do we take the position that any Rethug is better than a Blue Dog?

]]> By: i4u2bi http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913307 i4u2bi Sun, 07 Jun 2009 01:59:05 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913307 <p>Blue dogs….snooty rednecked assholes? with no balls.</p> Blue dogs….snooty rednecked assholes? with no balls.

]]> By: TobyWollin http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913306 TobyWollin Sun, 07 Jun 2009 01:58:44 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/06/06/ny-23-with-mchugh-headed-to-army-sprawling-district-presents-challenge-for-democrats/#comment-1913306 <p>If you are interested in retiring to the area(particularly the western part, my advice is to buy a house that is two stories tall and get a contract with someone to come and shovel your roof; 6 feet of snow on a roof is no joke.</p> If you are interested in retiring to the area(particularly the western part, my advice is to buy a house that is two stories tall and get a contract with someone to come and shovel your roof; 6 feet of snow on a roof is no joke.

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