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The wingosphere doesn’t quite know what to think of Obama’s speech, but two themes seem to be emerging.
I don’t hear anything in this speech that Bush didn’t say himself.
…its false idea that the ideas within it represent a huge break with the Bush Administration’s policies with regard to Islam. Of course they don’t. … Bush’s allies in the war are Obama’s allies, and Bush’s enemies are Obama’s enemies, because those allies and enemies are opposed to or support the United States, not a particular president.
…the speech was reminiscent of the remarkable series of speeches President Bush gave about the advance of freedom.
I liked the fact that he put in a Bush-like plug for democracy…I thought he did an effective job of making America’s case to the Muslim world.
Obama’s goal was to tell the Muslim world, "We respect and value you, your religion and your civilization, and only ask that you don’t hate us and murder us in return." Bush tried to deliver the same message over and over again.
But…but…
…if Obama really means it, it is bad news for the Jews in Israel and America, not to mention for American national security.
Obama echoed al-Qaeda’s calumnies against them [our military] — and did so in a foreign land. This is unprecedented. It is shameful.
Barack Obama alarmed allies and confirmed for the nation’s enemies that he will do for democracy and the advancement of human rights what George Tiller did for pediatrics.
No speech so deeply dishonest in its omissions or so rhetorically misleading its its assumptions and arguments can do anything other than communicate extraordinary weakness on the part of the United States.
Barack Obama’s ivory tower naiveté will get us all killed.
Joe Klein identified this "Heh: he’s just like Bush–change schmange/ZOMG WE’RE GONNA DIE!" meme a few weeks ago. It is the result of trying to poke libruls in the eye by linking Obama with Bush, thus validating the Great Leader’s policies and mocking "Change," while simultaneously insisting that Obama, being a Democrat, will bring down the whole of Western civilization.
Difficult juggling act, to say the least.
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Fuck ‘em.
What he said.
I agree. They are only talking to each other now and digging that hole deeper. I say keep on digging.
I can’t add to that.
We don’t give the wingnuts enough credit. It’s not easy to be batshit crazy day in and day out, seven days a week, 365 days a year but somehow they manage to do it. I would tip my tinfoil hat to them but then people could read my thoughts…
The difference being that Bush was obviously lying. Obama may only possibly be lying.
Obama hasn’t started any unnecessary wars yet. On the other hand, he hasn’t ended any either.
Obama has the best chance of any president to help solve the problem in the Middle East for a couple of reasons. He has the ability to convey his ideas and is obviously an educated person. We elected a person with darker skin – that sends a huge message right there – that perhaps we are not the bigoted, racist nation we have often seemed to be. He is reaching out to the ME and I believe they will respond.
Exactly.
Obama’s speech sounded just like “you’re either with us or your against us” uh huh.
This is my numero uno issue with the administration. We were told the wars would end. Not. Gonna. Happen. That puts me back on the outside. I’d much rather be inside but I can hack it out here.
I heard a report about the mountaintop removal protests yesterday about an old man who was trying to get arrested by crossing a police line with others. He walked so slowly he couldn’t keep up with the crowd. The police asked him if he’d like them to move the police line up for him. These are local cops and they know the score.
That’s the energy I want to see in the progressive movement. It’s also the kind of energy that’s required to get what we want. Prolly more relevent to Jane’s post but what the hell.
Did Obama hold hands with the Saudi Royalty? The wingnuts obviously would be upset if he did not.
Back to the cesspool.
Namaste
You knew he would not and could not just di-di as much as we both would have liked to see him do it.
Oops he didn’t at least where it was on camera nor did I see him playing with that big sword.
I knew an immediate withdrawal was/is impractical. The generals want to stay in Irak and the buildup in Afghanistan continues, spreading into Pakistan. I don’t hear anybody in the administration talking about getting out of anywhere. Gitmo will be around until the Establishment figures out what to do with the prisoners, many, if not most, of whom are guilty only of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. My support for the Dems was for who was gonna get us out of the shitholes first. Beginning to look like I never had a winner, either way.
Hand holding and sword play were the main parts of Bush’s diplomacy efforts…in between bike rides
He has ordered us out of Iraq, it’s only been 4 months for chrissakes.
Namaste SD !
The war did not spread to Pakistan, it will certainly reach its culmination there. AQ & assoc. terrorists have made Pakistan their home for decades but no one took India’s assertion seriously until it hit America’s soil.
Terrorists have been using Pakistan as a base and haven, it was only a matter of time that it would escalate there, with Air support by US Forces and the Pakistani Army doing the rest. Unfortunately there have been and will be many innocent casualties but doing nothing is a far worse option.
Well, I know I’m drillin a dry hole but he did say
This is supposed to be the month that we withdraw from the cities according to the SOFA. Going to be telling what happens.
Raven !
The most important aspect of the speech today is that it takes away momentum from fanatics and idealogues on both sides. They cannot say the worst things just to hold onto power when a man who looks like them and has a name like theirs is POTUS. His presence gives moderates in every country there, much more power and motivation.
Yes, this will work about as well as the classic juggling success of HATE HATE HATE the murderous, lying cheating Clintons/Praise Hillary’s “grit and grace” and her “18 million cracks”, curse that Obama for not making her his VP!
morans
Yea, but moderates are just a bunch of pussies who make things worse. . .right firepups?
Until a flight suited Obama lands on the deck of an aircraft carrier, package front and center, he’s nothing like Bush.
learn to spell, please. comment edited by lurking mod for name-calling. Please avoid obviously unnecessarily antagonistic tactics. Thank you.
Or till he posts Bush up and drop steps to his left
Watching Andrea Mitchell interviewing Liz Chee-knee about, well, anything…is kinda like watching the evil stepmother and her big-footed daughter trying on the glass slipper.
Push the Chee-knee line, there, Mrs. Greenspan, and maybe mamadick Lynne will give you an extra portion of chili next Friday night.
Odds on Liz schmoozin’ with Campbell later?
EJ Dionne must reading…rightwing media continues…..
OT-apologies if this is old news:
Time to spend more time with his family?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..11411.html
We’ll see.
See my 16. The key here is what Obama will do if the generals keep insisting we need to stay in Irak, for whatever reason(s) they come up with.
Afghanistan…I’m at work and don’t have time to go into that now.
Terrists? The US of A is the world leader of terrorizing in the 21st century. Over one million Iraqis served into early graves by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and now Obama. Endless imperial occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Drone/missile murders in Pakistan by Obama. Murder, Inc., now under new management.
Our lovely federal government has been terrorizing the citizens of the third world off and on for over one hundred and ten years now. It began in the Philippines in 1898, when we slaughtered some two hundred thousand Filipinos who dared to resist US imperial occupation.
Read some history books, kids.
What would Clinton do that Biden is not currently doing? He is right now doing what a VP is supposed to do; nothing, unlike Darth Vader.
Is there any difference between combat troops and other troops? Cuz the only troops that Obama has deigned to leave in August are called combat troops. Cannot other troops perform combat duties when required? More clever use of semantics.
shorter Obama: “only 23 percent of Americans want to bomb the crap out of you…”
I so agree. I forget if it was eCahn or Selise who reminded this Hope Lover that actions speak louder than the most eloquent words!
Citizen Raven:
Keep on drillin’ Brother Freebird, remember that we’re used ta lyin’ charletons who ken justify terror and murder with a smile and a beer… so havin’ a smart politician who knows his political life depends on standin behind his word and that that word could get himself killed by those in the shadows who oppose ‘im is a new thing and folks around here don’t have much trust left ta give…so keep on drillin’ Brother…you’ll be lassooin’ Tuna and forgettin’ about war and shit pretty soon now.
Beg to differ. Obama’s first foreign policy act was to spread the war on Islam to a third country and create another million or two refugees.
“I don’t hear anything in this speech that Bush didn’t say himself.”
Perhaps, but he said it better and he didn’t follow it up with bloodcurdling threats of armageddon and pompous declarations of American triumphalism. I suspect the bloodcurdling threats have much to do with the reception of any accompanying message. The imperial triumphalism didn’t help shrub either.
Sorry for the hit & run. Just in to load another audiobook disc on my ipod.
We freed the Filipinos from the torture chambers of their cruel Spanish overlords, just as we freed Iraqi’s from Saddam Hussein’s torture chambers. Saddam gassed his own people (with gas purchased from us).
What thanks do we get for our good deeds? Access to resources.
We freed the Viet Namese too. And the Japanese at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Free Peoples, All Are Free.
Citizen Raven:
Or till he posts Bush up and drop KICKS his sorry ass into Leavenworth.
Sounds like yer gettin’ taped up for the finals tanight…ya don’t think this series is gunna be legit do ya? ‘Cuz if it is, Orlando should do unto LA what they did unto Cleveland.
shorter: we’ll give you Democracy bombs and torture chambers. Welcome to our democratic torture chamber! It’s much better than the totalitarian type. And this is our Liberty Bomb and our Tea Bag Land Mine… and that napalm and white phosphorus burning your skin: Liberty Fire ;-P /s
well, speak of the devil! LOL. see me at 36…hi and bye!
I know why all these pundits are so outraged by the speech.
It’s because Bush invented democracy and now Obama is exploiting his great idea. /s
Special Book Salon upstairs with Christopher Eisgruber’s The Next Justice: Repairing the Supreme Court Appointments Process hosted by Professor Rebecca Brown.
Patriot Missiles
I think this point is key.
My thinking is that Obama, not having been in the military, is working on establishing his ’street cred’ with them.
No, I don’t like it, but I understand it.
If he rolled in and stripped away all of their toys day one, that would cause the MIC to go nuts, and like it or not, that’s a fight he didn’t need in the first few months of his administration.
A 600 Billion-plus budget is a very powerful thing.
If I’m right he’ll take more control as his people get settled in.
one thing I’m a bit concerned about is the health situation at gitmo. Apparently, quite a few prisoners have been on prolonged hunger strikes, with 80 pound men relatively common. When we shut down the prison, I hope they’ve nursed these people back to health by that point, because I cannot even imagine the outrage from the Arab street if we were to “release” a regiment-full of concentration camp human skeletons.
2 days. However, there is a huge fight going on at the Outer Banks. Environmental groups have gotten the beaches closed and it is helping to kill local economy. Wish me luck.
oh yea!
Very well said.
He got Petraus & Odierno to refute Chin-ee … they know who’s in charge.
That’s also a “We’ll see.”
Good point, as usual.
Fair enough.
They are absolutely right though. Bush made some ringing speeches, chockful of bullshit about freedom and democracy, while continuing to bomb Muslims.
You know what? The wingnuts became a joke because they swallowed the bullshit whole. We laughed at them when it was their bullshitter. Now it’s our bullshitter, it’s the new dawn of America.
The war in Pakistan is almost all his. Even Bush didn’t think he should punish the entire Pashtun people for the Taliban.
Ewww! No Thanks.
Technically that’s right, though I would certainly hope that all Veeps would stay up on events, policies and such. And, Biden is a pro, so I have no doubt he’s very well informed, just as Hillary has to be.
Hardly. As I understand it he approached Russia even while he was Prez-elect and his selection of Gates for Def. had as much to do with anti-nuke relations with Russia as anything else.
Now there’s an idea which probably hadn’t occurred to many people. How many are there? When will this change in their status occur and be announced?
I doubt Obama wants everyone to suffer. America has provided assistance to Zardari and his people. Of course, now that they’ve had some success Zardari wants to go after the Taliban in Waziristan. It’s hard to argue with his successes. Hammer & anvil, sure sure.
America’s goals aren’t affected tremendously by all that, but we might well benefit as the fight goes South.
I still wonder how sound the military might be. If the war goes East then the integrity of the military and ISI will be more of an issue for everyone.
I suppose the biggest danger now is over-exuberance by Zardari and his military commanders. Changing venue might make his plans harder. I would guess they have developed plans from many years ago since this ‘problem’ has been around. I hope he doesn’t face a back-stabbing attack from Taliban sympathizers more to the East.
Energy and enthusiasm with good military leadership, proper tools and the right tactics, that’s what they need. Good luck helps too.