We haven’t given up on that, but like every movement — and you can even point to the Movement Conservatives as examples — has its ups and downs.

We’re not done taking back the party, as the same reasons exist now that existed four to five years ago. Dean asked his supporters in late November 2004: do we start a third party, do we take back the party, or should he simply run again?

The numbers are still not there for a successful third party.

Dean or a true progressive like him will not win without a sizable, solid progressive organization fully behind him and prepared to win.

By the numbers this means we still have to consider taking back the party in order to win.

This will only happen if we continue our efforts to weed out the corporatist interests within the Dem Party, primary their incumbents and support our own candidates. This is not a job which can happen in two or four years, as we’ve just proven to ourselves; it’s a lifetime commitment.

I’ll point to the Movement Conservatives again as an example: it took the corporatists and the Bible-thumpers 30-plus years to get to the eight years they had with George W. Bush. It took them that long to move their party far enough to the right that Republicans like William Milliken (Michigan’s former governor) looks like a centrist Dem, and forced moderate Repubs like Mitt Romney to backpedal on everything they’ve ever believed. In doing so, the right-wing encouraged the development of radical far right groups to widen the Overton Window, making their new center look appealing in comparison (Dubya looked sane compared to Buchanan or Pat Robertson in 2000, yes?)

This should tell us that we not only need to continue to hammer away on centrists; we also need to encourage those farther to the left than we are. This is our role, this is our groove for the next two presidential elections at a minimum. We take every opportunity like the backdoor organizing going on at the moment (see my comment at 53) and then we run further and farther to the left with it on their dime.

And it should also tell us after shifting the conversation and taking possession of it, that we shouldn’t f*ck up and get greedy-stupid like the right did during Dubya’s eight years.

I swear no fealty to the Dem Party; to paraphrase what Eli Pariser said in 2004, I bought it, it’s mine, and I’m taking it back. The old schoolers aren’t giving up without a fight, but they are eventually going to lose this war for the soul of the Dem Party.

You know, all the usual stuff you *don’t* get from Repubs.

But what corral are they herding INTO? Cuz if there IS another corral, I sure wanna know about it.

I’m in agreement with most of your thoughts . . . I’m NOT sure how many are defecting the D Corral, nor do I know where they might be bedding down at night if not in the Dem Corral.