Eli, any chance of you changing your pic to something less pretentious?

Thanks in advance.

*grabs Pine-Sol™ and that wire brush I clean the char-grill with, heading to the shower – back in a few days*

jeebus, IN OKIYAR

Doncha love it when the wheels come off !!!!!
Hypocrites and pedophiles.

A furry? You mean…that CSI episode about people dressng up in furry critter costumes and sorta-kinda having sex—that wasn’t straight out of the writers’ imaginations??????
Ay yi – every time I think I’ve heard everything…

“looking for a ‘babyfur’”??????

Great moments in branding.

I remember that episode – gave me the creeps.

My girlfriend and I had a *very* strange experience last year when a museum guard apparently misinterpreted my girlfriend’s consternation about an ice-skating mouse carved out of semi-precious stones (don’t ask) as a sign of latent furriness.

We didn’t realize where he was going when he recommended a Brian Jacques book, but when he gave her the URL for Wikifur, she said, “Oh, I know what that is!”

Then he asked her what she knew about it, and she said she had seen that CSI episode.

There was a pause, and then he kind of gritted out, “That’s. All. Hollywood.”

We left rather quickly.

OMFG!!! Howie’s site has a clip of that very CSI episode – with the suspect defining “yiffing.”

I swear, I thought they were making it up, just another bizarre flight of fancy from the original CSI….

And I thought I was so sophisticated.

Well, okay, I should pay attention to the actual point of the post here – the poor repressed Repubs are at the loony sexual crimes, AGAIN.

LOLOL. In fact, ROFL.

Okay, I’m doing best not to ask about the piece in the exhibit……

yifferent strokes for yifferin’ folks

damn fur inures.

There actually isn’t much more to it than that. I think it might have been topaz, with sapphire eyes and gold whiskers and skates.

It was really remarkably cheesy (so to speak) for something so valuable, and we kept running out and dragging other people in our group back to see it.

How apropos.

Furries Return To Pittsburgh

I don’t watch CSI, so this is all new to me. Don’t think it’s anything I’d be interested in, though. Nope, definitely not.

So I gather it would be a bit of a faux pas to give a Furry a gift certificate for a Brazilian wax treatment?

OT: Furry Sings the Blues.

Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps
In the grey decay
They chew the last few dollars off
Old Beale Street’s carcass

Ratfood! Punaise!

It is hard to treat this, um, subculture? seriously. Until, of course, they commit crimes.

solai—did you watch the clip at Howie’s site? (link at top of post) It’s funny, really.

It’s such a strange story. On the one hand, the furry/schadenfreude aspect is pretty hilarious, but the pedophilia/kiddie-porn/self-loathing aspect is pretty sad.

The people I know who are furry fans are, um, much less into it than that. And not into it that way, either, AFAICT.

you’re either fur us or a Guiness.

Think of us as a rather diverse co-ed fraternity who happens to be interested in anthropomorphic animals.

Some are artists (and art fans), some are into costuming, some are into gaming, some into sci-fi/fantasy literature. And yep, there are plenty of folks for whom it’s a fetish.

It’s no more a “subculture” then sci-fi fandom, anime fandom, or fantasy fandom. The CSI episode was simply crap. I’ve been going to “furry” conventions since 1993. Some of the early ones were rather rowdy, but nowadays the big ones are about as mainstream as they come.

Good description, Eli. I feel somewhat guilty taking off on the funny parts…but, but…

I notice the perp failed to show for the scheduled meeting. Wonder what that means?
And also, that the guy’s boss fired him instantly – no innocent til proved guilty, no “we’ve got your back,”, no ” there must be an innocent explanation,” nothing.

scariest part of the whole story is the picture of Jane Orie at Howie’s site.

Really? So, do people actually attend convention events in costume?

And to think Repubs were working so hard to keep them ‘furiners outta this country.

So very true. I liked Howie’s comment about her teeth.

My youtube link @ 13 was about a furry convention in Pittsburgh.

Thank you for the inside perspective, and welcome. Is there one homogenous furry community, or is there some separation between the sci-fi/fantasy enthusiasts and the fetishists? Or is it more of a continuum?

While there will always be some taboo, and rightfully so as regards children, I still can’t help but come back to one fundamental;

Teh Gay Is More Icky.

If that fundamental in society didn’t exist, this whole episode would be viewed, correctly, in the “ickiness context” of children alone, rather than being viewed in the “ickiness context” of gay people.

Additionally, there’d be less repression all the way around if teh gay wasn’t so damn “icky.” Dude could have gone and got laid by a peer for all these years and everybody would be fine about it.

OT – anybody watching Rachel? She was just covering this:

http://washingtonindependent.c…..arate-chop

My favorite part? Bay Buchanan’s dismissal of the whole thing as something that “happened two years ago….Arent’ people entitled to a second chance…” Again, IOKIYAR.

FWIW, I would have treated this story almost exactly the same way had Berlin’s target been a girl, except that I wouldn’t have mentioned Orie’s homophobia. For obvious reasons.

Thanks, ratfood – I had neglected to follow that link. Very informative.

I’ll drink to that.

Is this where Santorum got that man on dog stuff?

You don’t suppose……?

Berlin will have a chance to get yiffed a lot in his future cell. But, sorry, no children – poor Alan.

It appears to be harmless fun for most of the people involved.

I understand that.

My point is a little broader, which is that outside of progressive society, this post is easily read with 2 “ickinesses” – both teh gay, and pedophilia.

So often, gay people get connected with pedophilia which is a condition to pedophiliacs (if that’s a word.)

Gay people still face the uphill battle of “normal.”

Holy moly! That pic of Jane Orie is a hoot.

Whitening for your white mouse’s teeth! See, it works! And a Brasilian wax job for the whiskers, too!

Hey, it could have worse. It could have been Urkel.

Something Santorum said about a month ago didn’t get much play (that I saw, anyway). He was speaking of Spector’s switch to the dem party and said: “He dropped his pants and waved it at us”. Odd thing to say. These people always have their minds in the gutter.

Santorum seems to have a penchant for painting pictures most of us would prefer not to see…

hey, whatever floats your boat melts your pelt

I understand, and I’m very sympathetic to that. I tried to emphasize that the problem is that he’s a pedophile and not that he’s gay, but it’s hard to avoid or downplay the latter altogether, especially when he’s a gay man working for a homophobe.

Just what I was thinking: Something I saw on CSI was true!

Republicans being hypocritical? Always true, its genetic.

Not to worry, no one is misunderstanding your point.

Pedophilia is bad enough, but furry pedophilia? EEEEWWW, I’m now totally squicked.

Slightly OT, but does anyone else have the same dyslexic reaction to downwithtyranny and read it as “down with tranny”? I’m not down with tranny… I mean I’m fine with tranny… oh, dear, these things are hard to express correctly.

OT -

What one word describes what you see in Scott Roeder’s mugshot?

(Smiling) It’s ok, I get your point, your post, and I don’t disagree with a single thing you pointed out. I’m not being contrarian an inch.

What I am saying is broader than your post, because I live it.

I quit teaching piano to kids in ‘99 because of a parent’s freak out when they learned I was gay. Once one set of parents, out of a ridiculously small studio of 8 kids, got all winged out because I moved in with my boyfriend and it was entirely clear that it was a 2 male household, it was easier to just fire all the child students and only take adults. (Which was entirely a smaller group btw, and dwindled to nothing due to my interests as well.)

The one set of parents turned totally “concern troll” with the other parents and what I could never make all of them understand was “Hello? I’m interested in the piano and MY HUSBAND. Get it? You and your kid are satellites, not planets, in my universe, ok?” So I just fired them.

It was satisfying to just fire them, but gay-ghetto-izing, and my real goal anymore is to make that a totally known false choice for future parents/kids/piano teachers.

I want a bigger world, as do you Eli. I’m just talking about having lived , and continuing to live, in the smaller one.

Nope. Anyway, every since the tranny went out in my Mazda I’ve driven a stick.

“Amicable?” Something that starts with the letter “A” anyway.

My sympathies I’m sure.

Smartass

Yeah, I totally understand, and it’s terrible that so many people still cling to the idea that gay = pedophile, or that if you don’t actually molest their kids, you’ll try to indoctrinate them somehow.

There *are* some pretty lurid stories about straight pedophiles, like that (IIRC) assistant DA who tried to arrange a sexual liaison with a (again, IIRC) pre-pubescent girl, assuring the mother that he was very gentle and had done this lots of times before. Gah.

It seems like homophobes are obsessed with gay sex and unable to view the larger picture, i.e. the fundamental right of adults to associate and form pair bonds with whoever they want.

Since they refuse to perceive gay people in any frame except “sexual deviant” it is easy to lump them in with other types of (actual) deviants. It is very sad.

Defiant

It’s a continuum, same as any fandom. There’s alot of anti-furry prejudice out there among the other fan groups (think of how transgendered people got marginalized by the gay movement, for a political parallel). It stems from some very old, very nasty rivalries that caused the very early furries to split off from more mainstream sci-fi and fantasy fandom.

But frankly, furries as a rule are far better behaved at their conventions then sci-fi and anime fans. Ask hotels that hosted both types of conventions which fan group did more damage to the rooms, resulted in more police calls, and so on.

Though you know what the king of all destructive conventions are? Business conventions. Rich assholes on expense accounts never stop being rich assholes, especially on someone else’s property.

Holy yiffing shit!

GOPhreakshows never end.

-G

There isn’t a physical resemblance but for some reason he reminds me of convicted BTK serial murderer Dennis Rader. Safe to say both fall in the category of misanthrope.

Yes, but they don’t wear the things through the entire convention. They usually will go out “in character” for limited durations, then decostume, clean up and rejoin the convention out of costume.

There’s also organized costume-related events, such as the “fursuit parade” at the convention in Pittsburgh, as well as masquerades and variety shows.

Republican

anthroconservitives.
exactly what the world does not need.
*sigh*

Thank you. We were getting too serious for awhile. This is freaking funny and I’m going to enjoy it. (It helps that he never showed for the date with the underage boy).

Bingo!

But as I say, it’s all about the bigger world, and making it.

Progress! Hence Progressives!

Republican.

Thanks. Hopefully liberal political conventioneers aren’t quite so bad.

Whenever my girlfriend or I spot a Self-Important Rich Business Asshole, we say, “Look at my striped shirt! Fucking look at it!”

Another man of God.

My only prayer is God protect us from your most avid fans.

-G

Heh! You beat me to it! I owe you a beverage of your choice, and I’ll make sure to read all the way through a thread before I reply.

That was Brilliant !

*bows to the master*

Ding. That was my thought.

heh. Well, you did add a “.” so you made it your own!

And the fact that a self-assumed expert in what she sees as perversity, either rightly or wrongly, couldn’t recognize it if it bit her on the nose. Or worked in her office.

I would suspect not. Every group has some hard core jerks — liberals, furries, sci-fi fans, you name it. And believe it or not, some furries are hard-core Republicans, just as some gays are hard-core Republicans.

It ain’t always comfortable under that big tent, and us furries do have a helluva big tent going.

I just used to know someone that negotiated hotel contracts for conventions, and he told quite a few tales about what the hotel managers told HIM. To a one, they said the businessmen were the worst, followed by the Holy Roller conventions. I.e., the conservatives that so worship at the altar of private property are the ones that are the first to destroy someone else’s private property.

This ain’t exactly a surprise. :)

You’re too gracious!

Yeah, conservatives and assholes (lots of overlap there) tend to believe that everything (and everyone) in the world is for their benefit. One of their many endearing traits.

conservatives and assholes

Just to save keystrokes should we start referring to them as conservaholes?

Not sure how you know who’s who.
I know some avid fans who are not homophobes, assholes, users of the faith. Just saying, maybe you are making a generalization that’s not fair. Possible?

To be fair (not that Jane Orie ever would), a pedophile in an office setting would probably be difficult to spot.

I believe you could probably refer to me as a moderately avid fan (choir member, lay Eucharistic minister, etc.) and I try really hard to pay attention to what Our Founder had to say… stuff like “feed my sheep,” and “what you do to the least of these you do to me.” But then I’m not a Republican, so maybe I’ve got that whole Christian thing all wrong.

Bush wiping his glasses with that woman’s jacket comes to mind. I believe it was on the Letterman show.

Me too. All of what you said. Had terrible dreams last night with the new hate news. Looked up that least of these my brothers this am, Matthew 5:40 (if I remember correctly). Did some research on Matthew Shephard. Interesting irony, isn’t it?

There is a common human tendency to judge groups we don’t belong to by their worst representatives.

OT: Afters years and years of saying this, it’s nice to see others with audiences are now saying it:

Having looked at this story from every angle, I can only conclude that the lack of context has been a conscious, deliberate decision by journalists to, in a sense, purposefully un-inform news consumers, which, of course, is the opposite of what journalism aspires to accomplish.

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200906020003

Boehlert still misses a big part of the BigMedia game though. If the Sotomayor smears are being done to create excitement during a “boring” confirmation process, why didn’t we see anything even remotely close to this during Alito and Robert, which were also fairly boring?

All this stuff is done specifically to keep Liberals and their Liberal ideas marginalized so we don’t disrupt the BigMoney game.

I had the exact same reaction: He nailed the what, but missed the why. The profit/ratings motive has always been a smokescreen, otherwise the Jeff Gannon story would have been a blockbuster.

Yep. And furry conservatives can be as big a bunch of jerks as their “mundane” counterparts, though, as always, there are definite exceptions. Know a lady artist who’s furry, “old-school” conservative, Christian, but is one of the most fun-loving people I know. She voted for Obama quite proudly this last election.

I forgot to do it in the earlier posts, but I’ll decode the lingo for you.

“I’m a Daddyfur and Caretaker and I am looking for a babyfur to be my mate and my companion in a long-term committed relationship,” [Berlin’s] ad says. “I am a hopeless romantic and very affectionate, freely giving hugs, scritches, cuddles and kisses.”

Furries as a rule tend to be very physically affectionate people. I’m a masseur myself, and I’ll gladly trade hugs and “scritches” at conventions with folks I know. But those that have any social skills know not to give them out unless invited. Just as in the “real world”, not everyone desires physical contact!

“Daddyfur” and “babyfur” represent a sort of BDSM subculture, which involves fetisizing infancy. Babyfurs wear diapers under their clothing, and participate in elaborate B&D scenes. “Daddyfurs” just represent the dominant member of the pair.

And babyfurs are a pretty marginalized group even within the fandom, thanks to, as always, the actions of an inconsiderate few. I don’t Get Them — I had to wear diapers for a while myself, due to a medical condition, and I don’t see what the heck the attraction is. But to each, their own. Some idiot Republican out advertising their fetish is nothing new under the sun, in or out of fandom. :)

If we do the Christian thing right we’re supposed to see Christ in every person we meet, and treat them accordingly. It’s hard, and I fail a lot, but I get the feeling from too many of the “professional Christians” who show up as TV commentators that they don’t bother to try at all.

“tough stance on sex crimes” = I fire them when I find them working in my office.

Nice stance you have there, Senator Orie.

Thanks for being so open with us, and explaining a culture most of us know less than nothing about. It’s appreciated.

Life’s a bitch when there’s a hitch in yer skritch

Huh. I had assumed “daddyfur” and “babyfur” was more like a sugar daddy kind of thing, or at least a paternal kind of relationship. I didn’t realize it was quite that literal.

But hey, as long as it’s consenting *adults*, they can do whatever they want.

Yes, much appreciated, especially considering we were probably a little less than inviting, for which I apologize.

Regardless of the acceptance we may have of alternative lifestyles, let’s not forget this particular case involved a minor, which precludes the possibility of consent.

That is a face of nightmares.

Forgive us our unbelief. Yes. I try too, and I also stay away from tv preachers. What channel would Jesus be on? Ha.
And, thanks for all the breakfast goodies.

Yeah, sometimes they’ll pay lip service to Jesus, but it’s pretty obvious that they’re driven solely by Old Testament hate.

Hi Teddy. Thanks for reminding me. I wanted to ask What’s a skritch?

My alarm clock will howl at me in about 6½ hours, so I’ll wish you all restful sleep and good dreams. See y’all tomorrow.

Like I said, Furry: Okay. Gay: Okay. Pedophile sexual predator: Not Okay.

Easy to do when you’re anonymous! :)

Actually, there’s some pretty good stuff in the OT, if you know it. Saying the OT is all about the hateful God is a limited statement.

EXACTLY what Eli said, 100 times. Now I’m REALLY going to bed!

Using government computers: Not Okay, and very GOP

True, but there’s still an awful lot of hateful God stuff in there too.

The New Testament is supposed to be what makes Christianity Christianity, and yet its message of love and peace and forgiveness is completely lost on the religious right.

Yeah, not just Not Okay, but incredibly stupid.

lisa has late nite upstairs

Hell, I don’t even click on news stories with mildly salacious titles when I’m at work. I either check them out on my Treo or wait ’till I get home.

It’s okay. After all, when I popped in, rather then engaging in a “lookat the freak!” group session, you seemed curious and interested. That’s the most important thing.

And as pointed out above, messing around with minors is *not okay*, and I don’t care where you come from about that. You didn’t make the mistake of thinking all of us were pedophiles, or sex-crazed maniacs, any more then all gay people are — and that’s also very important.

Thank you for being understanding of this old silver-crest.

Seems to be. Crazy, huh? Gives me a headache. Seriously. Not to mention nightmares.
I like the Psalms, though. David. Cool dude. Danced naked in front of the Altar. Ya know?

My pleasure. Good to know that furries and firedogs can coexist peacefully.

and the opposite:

http://www.godhatesfurries.com/

caution: may be a satiric site. may contains furries.

Exactly. Never been able to figure why it’s so hard people to understand that part. It’s been so obvious for so long now…

I’ve posted on it multiple times. Hell, that was what my first-ever FDL post was about.

Go to flickr, and put in furry (or Cosplay, for more interesting costumes)

I was watching a show from Science Channel last night called “Taboo”. The subject was “wife swapping clubs” and the proprietor of one club gave a brief description of those who enjoyed their club:

Overwhelmingly republican… upscale, white, professional – doctors, lawyers – pillars of the community.

Dems may sometimes be unfaithful, but republicans are just kinky, and not in a good way.

I’ve known a few furverts in my time… and I can’t imagine a conservative Republican being in any more welcome at a furry event than a turd in the punchbowl. WTF?