Comments on: The Song Remains The Same: Too Much Money At The Top of The Economy http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 06:41:17 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: ThingsComeUndone http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910459 ThingsComeUndone Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:34:00 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910459 <p>Diary please good points:)</p> Diary please good points:)

]]> By: ThingsComeUndone http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910457 ThingsComeUndone Mon, 01 Jun 2009 06:32:37 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910457 <p>Where are these oil speculators getting the money to rent oil tankers from<br /> our banks?<br /> What happens to them if the price of oil stays down? Just how long can the oil speculators afford to sit on their parked oil tankers?</p> Where are these oil speculators getting the money to rent oil tankers from
our banks?
What happens to them if the price of oil stays down? Just how long can the oil speculators afford to sit on their parked oil tankers?

]]> By: eggroll http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910382 eggroll Mon, 01 Jun 2009 05:17:05 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910382 <p>The Gini Index is a rough measure of economic inequality in a society. It runs between 0.0 (absolute wealth equality) and 1.0 (absolute wealth inequality). One strand of economic theory says that economic growth is predicated on the strength of democratic institutions, which, not surprisingly, tend to be most robust where wealth equality is greatest (e.g. the Nordic countries). As the US Gini score has moved up, the erosion of its institutions can been seen as consistent with this view. We now see the rent-seeking behavior, cannibalizing of social programs, corruption, lack of transparency, and faked benchmarks for economic growth and competitiveness that all come with the economic retrograde that accompanies crumbling institutions. Americans today are suspicious of fundamental institutions, distrusting election results and the tax authorities. People like Lou Dobbs can make a good living explaining that Mexicans are stealing all the jobs that haven’t already been offshored to China or India. Returning economic justice will be a tricky proposition, but it is essential to national survival. What happens in California in coming months may be a good indicator of what lies ahead.</p> The Gini Index is a rough measure of economic inequality in a society. It runs between 0.0 (absolute wealth equality) and 1.0 (absolute wealth inequality). One strand of economic theory says that economic growth is predicated on the strength of democratic institutions, which, not surprisingly, tend to be most robust where wealth equality is greatest (e.g. the Nordic countries). As the US Gini score has moved up, the erosion of its institutions can been seen as consistent with this view. We now see the rent-seeking behavior, cannibalizing of social programs, corruption, lack of transparency, and faked benchmarks for economic growth and competitiveness that all come with the economic retrograde that accompanies crumbling institutions. Americans today are suspicious of fundamental institutions, distrusting election results and the tax authorities. People like Lou Dobbs can make a good living explaining that Mexicans are stealing all the jobs that haven’t already been offshored to China or India. Returning economic justice will be a tricky proposition, but it is essential to national survival. What happens in California in coming months may be a good indicator of what lies ahead.

]]> By: SWEG http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910131 SWEG Sun, 31 May 2009 23:27:50 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910131 <p>If we believe in the necessity of growth (pretty much the definition of cancer but that’s another argument), the imperative is to sever the link between GDP and carbon emissions. Despite what you will hear from legacy industries and their cheerleaders, this is not impossible and provides as many opportunities as challenges. But we have to get serious about it. Playing around the margins isn’t going to get it done. So far, I don’t see the commitment. It will require a massive undertaking and the reality of our actions don’t come within miles of matching the rhetoric. This effort is going to have to rival the defense budget. Who is ready for that?</p> If we believe in the necessity of growth (pretty much the definition of cancer but that’s another argument), the imperative is to sever the link between GDP and carbon emissions. Despite what you will hear from legacy industries and their cheerleaders, this is not impossible and provides as many opportunities as challenges. But we have to get serious about it. Playing around the margins isn’t going to get it done. So far, I don’t see the commitment. It will require a massive undertaking and the reality of our actions don’t come within miles of matching the rhetoric. This effort is going to have to rival the defense budget. Who is ready for that?

]]> By: bigbrother http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910060 bigbrother Sun, 31 May 2009 22:07:55 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910060 <p>Demand for energy may not necessarily be supplied by carbon based fuel. Alternatives may be cheaper with a Carbon control.</p> Demand for energy may not necessarily be supplied by carbon based fuel. Alternatives may be cheaper with a Carbon control.

]]> By: selise http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910004 selise Sun, 31 May 2009 21:19:11 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1910004 <p>i’d prefer an industrial policy that i thought had a snowball’s chance in hell of saving the planet’s climate. and so am hoping stirling has some additional / innovative ideas.</p> i’d prefer an industrial policy that i thought had a snowball’s chance in hell of saving the planet’s climate. and so am hoping stirling has some additional / innovative ideas.

]]> By: Scarecrow http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1909982 Scarecrow Sun, 31 May 2009 21:06:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1909982 <p>I assume Stirling means that, beyond the merits (or lack thereof) of giving away 85% of the allowances to polluters/rent seekers etc, the bill also serves to redirect hundreds of billions towards particular industries and solutions. We’ll pay somewhat more for electricity and other energy, and those monies will function like a stimulus focused on the preferred solutions rewarded in the bill — hence, an industrial policy. He’s not saying they are his preferred solutions or industrial policy.</p> I assume Stirling means that, beyond the merits (or lack thereof) of giving away 85% of the allowances to polluters/rent seekers etc, the bill also serves to redirect hundreds of billions towards particular industries and solutions. We’ll pay somewhat more for electricity and other energy, and those monies will function like a stimulus focused on the preferred solutions rewarded in the bill — hence, an industrial policy. He’s not saying they are his preferred solutions or industrial policy.

]]> By: OrganicGeorge http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1909980 OrganicGeorge Sun, 31 May 2009 21:06:51 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1909980 <p>There is a glut of oil on the markets today. OPEC cannot stop the overproduction of it members, the onshore tanks are full, tankers harbored off shore are full, yet the prices rises since oil is seen as an inflation hedge.</p> <p>The only improvement in the economy is the rate of decline has slowed, the “miles driven” chart is still going down, as is the trucker freight index. Economist are looking for a rebound in the second half of 09, but then the majority of these same economist were calling for a rebound in the second half of 08. </p> <p>Same as it ever was.</p> There is a glut of oil on the markets today. OPEC cannot stop the overproduction of it members, the onshore tanks are full, tankers harbored off shore are full, yet the prices rises since oil is seen as an inflation hedge.

The only improvement in the economy is the rate of decline has slowed, the “miles driven” chart is still going down, as is the trucker freight index. Economist are looking for a rebound in the second half of 09, but then the majority of these same economist were calling for a rebound in the second half of 08.

Same as it ever was.

]]> By: dakine01 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1909971 dakine01 Sun, 31 May 2009 21:03:03 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1909971 <p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/fdl-book-salon-dear-president-obama-with-bruce-kluger-and-david-tabatsky/" rel="nofollow">Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs</a> with <i>Dear President Obama…</i> hosted by Christy</p> Book Salon a couple of flights upstairs with Dear President Obama… hosted by Christy

]]> By: Ian Welsh http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1909967 Ian Welsh Sun, 31 May 2009 20:55:13 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/31/the-song-remains-the-same-too-much-money-at-the-top-of-the-economy/#comment-1909967 <p>Since huge amounts of private debt is now government guaranteed, it is as safe as treasuries, but has better returns. Thus why be in treasuries?</p> <p>Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble.</p> Since huge amounts of private debt is now government guaranteed, it is as safe as treasuries, but has better returns. Thus why be in treasuries?

Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble.

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