Ugly

Do any of these MEN know what they are talking about? Do they have any idea what a “late term abortion” actually is? No, because if they did they wouldn’t be spewing their ignorant venom across the universe. No woman wants to undergo a procedure like this. The effing Right would rather we die and leave our families motherless and wife-less.

What Smgumby said.

For example, check out this comment posted at “respectable” conservative blog RedState, a portion of which is also immortalized in the screen grab above:

Can believe what a bunch of self centered Idiots they are! These people have no morals period!!

This is some pretty sick shit. Hope those providing essential services have upped their own security — this horrible act could ricochet and rebound throughout our country over the next few weeks.

And so predictable. I can’t help but wonder why this doctor didn’t have government provided security.

Late last night I couldn’t sleep; turned on the TV in a moment of “maybe there is a movie on”.. Anyway, cspan was on first and there was a professor from Princeton speaking about abortion. It was an insane speech! I can’t help but wonder if the KS shooter watched it too.

Thanks, PW.
I’m literally feeling queasy over this.
John Cole at Baloon Juice has also preserved some of the worst of the freeper comments as .pdf’s.
Sickening. Just sickening.
FunnyWheelieDiva

Will our leaders call today’s assassination what it truly is — domestic terrorism?

Yglesias:

Random murder of civilians in order to coerce political concessions doesn’t have a great track-record. But direct action terrorist violence against abortion providers has, I think, proven to be a fairly successful tactic. Every time you murder a doctor, you create a disincentive for other medical professionals to provide these services. What’s more, you create a need for additional security at facilities around the country. In addition, the anti-abortion protestors who frequently gather near clinics are made to seem much more intimidating by the fact that the occurrence of these sorts of acts of violence.

In general, I think people tend to overestimate the efficacy of violence as a political tactic. But in this particular case, I think people tend to understate it.

Tweets of Hate: The Crazy Right Twitters About the Assassination of Dr Tiller:

One side effect of twitter is that the stupid, bigoted, comments people used to make at the water cooler now get preserved for future employers to find using google.

A small sample of the hatred expressed on twitter after the assassination of Dr Tiller.

* Crap, I always forgot hashtags. I’m happy Tiller’s dead. – Jennifer Waite, Selah, Washington
* UPDATE… Doctor George Tiller was aborted today in his 204th trimester – aren’t paybacks a bitch – Punch

Sadly, there’s a LOT more at the link.

And so predictable. I can’t help but wonder why this doctor didn’t have government provided security.

RevDeb had some insight at Teddy’s Oxdown diary (she spent time at Tiller’s clinic counter-protesting):

…Here’s the thing. The local police, the local feds all are on the side of the nuts. They didn’t care about Tiller and the sad but necessary work he did. They were antagonistic to the clinic and barely did what they needed to. During that week of hell in 103 degrees, the locals, the feds, the marshals, ATF etc were taking pictures of US not of the Army of God folks.

FunnyWheelieDiva

Interesting that tankertodd equates a murder with Rosa Parks’ simple act of civic disobedience. Any reasonable person would realize it has more in common with acts perpetrated by 1950s and ’60s era segregationists.

Peace to Dr. Tiller’s family.

No.
This has been another edition of…

FunnyWheelieDiva

And no one will mention that recent DHS report about the threat of RW domestic terrorism, either. Because, you know, vegan potlucks are the REAL danger to Real Amerika.

Time to demand the FBI and Department of Justice crack down on these acts of domestic terrorism and incitement to violence.

And how is what Yglesias describes NOT a textbook definition of TERRORISM?!!

FunnyWheelieDiva

Sounds like terrorism to me:

But Warren Hern, a Colorado physician and close friend of Tiller’s who said he is now “the only doctor in the world” who performs very late-term abortions, said Tiller’s death was predictable.

“I think it’s the inevitable consequence of more than 35 years of constant anti-abortion terrorism, harassment and violence. George is the fifth American doctor to be assassinated. I get messages from these people saying, ‘Don’t bother wearing a bulletproof vest, we’re going for a head shot.’ “

When President Obama was elected last fall, Hern predicted that antiabortion violence would increase, he said. Because Obama supports legalized abortion, said Hern, its foes “have lost ground. . . . They want the doctors dead, and they invite people to assassinate us. No wonder that this happens. . . . I am next on the list.”

In the 90’s I worked directly across the street from a woman’s health clinic.. It was dangerously insane.. every day for years. No reason to think it isn’t today.

Constant harassment, surveillance with cameras.. break ins.. mocked funerals on the property. It mattered little that a U.S. marshall was parked in a car out front for months at a time. I was one of the very few people who I ever saw confront them, even gently.

My guess would be that these ignorant people don’t care if some woman they don’t even know gets an abortion. They are just filled with hate and rage and are not sure why but killing feels good. This is domestic terrorism and in my opinion, is a hate crime.

Standard wingnut shit. If we don’t like what others like, murder & mayhem.

Are these the same idjits that got all bent out of shape because Homeland Security came out with a report warning about them.

These people are Christians? I’m pretty sure Jesus didn’t go around executing people.

Terrorist…how about we waterboard him for poops and giggles and then throw him in jail for the rest of his life?

And..maybe we should track down the other hate mongers that cheered him on?

Mod note: Even in jest we don’t advocate any form of torture on our fellow human beings.

”Culture of life,” they call it. Like fucking hell.

We recently hosted What’s the Matter with Kansas on FDL Movie Night–a real eye opener which shows–among portraits of many Kansans including farmers, liberals, and artists–people on both sides of this issue. The anti-choicers are really scary.

That’s cause Jesus was naive. If he hadn’t been, he woulda been in favor of shoot-on-sight anyone who didn’t agree with him.

source

“When I, or people like me, are running the country, you’d better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed… If we’re going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testoserone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over… Somebody like Susan Smith should be dead. She should be dead now. Some people will go, “Well how do you know God doesn’t have a wonderful plan for her life?” He does, it’s listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead.”

Randall Terry, Aug 8, 1995 U.S. Taxpayers Alliance Banquet in Washington DC, talking about doctors who perform abortions and volunteer escorts.

Back to the petri dish, I say!

Jesus was more on the receiving end of executions, rather than carrying them out.

I wonder if any of them noticed that the “pro-life” Republics did nothing about abortion when Republics had complete control of the government?

This is not the path George Tiller planned for himself:

Tiller, who was born and raised in Wichita, was the son of a physician. He took over his father’s practice when he died in a 1970 airplane crash that also claimed the lives of his mother, sister and brother-in-law. At the time, Tiller was finishing medical school and had an internship at Camp Pendleton. He had planned to become a dermatologist, but when he returned to Kansas to close up his father’s practice, patients pleaded with him to stay.

Eventually, his clinic evolved from family practice to abortions, and in the late 1980s and 1990s, protests became increasingly violent and intrusive. Tiller testified that he was the subject of frequent death threats, that he was harassed at his church and that members of his staff were picketed at their homes.

“The heroes in our practice,” he testified, “are the courageous men and women who come to work every day in spite of threats and harassment.”

Whatever happens to this guy, we do not want to make a martyr out of him — just show him for the deluded fool that he is.

Smiting one’s enemies was so commonplace back then that it was a more profound statement not to do so. Not unlike the present day, actually.

Yeah, I wonder how Jesus would handle it if he had a do-over. Guess he’d do an about face.

So true! Republics did absolutely nothing but talk the talk, then walk. They had absolutely no interest in outlawing abortion. But. They sure fooled the base didn’t they?

why the rush to frame this as terrorism? is this not most likely an act of first degree murder?

at this time we have a president who has advocated indefinite detention without trial for accused terrorists and military action as the appropriate response — while accused murderers still get fair trials and require a police response.

it’s murder.

For the Republics, abortion is an issue to use, election after election, not to solve.

thanks. what an inspiring man.

Randall Terry’s initial statement seems to have been superseded by his subsequent remarks:

While many anti-abortion leaders swiftly issued statements condemning the shooting, their expressions of dismay were not echoed by Randall Terry, a veteran anti-abortion activist whose protests have often targeted Tiller.

“George Tiller was a mass murderer and we cannot stop saying that,” Terry said. “He was an evil man – his hands were covered with blood.”

Terry said he was now concerned that the Obama administration “will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions.”

Well, it’s probably both terrorism and murder, i.e., murder with the intent to terrorize other docs who perform abortions.

First degree murder and terrorism are not mutually exclusive. This is terrorism in that its goal is to stop other doctors from providing legal and necessary services. The statement from the ”only doctor left in the world” who provides these procedures that he knows he is ”next” makes it very clear that this terror is working.

Doctors don’t go into this specialty anymore. It’s barely taught in medical school.

The Rs may not want to touch the issue since this has happened. Their base will, of course, but I doubt that any senator or congressperson running will even mention it.

You owe me a drink.

Jesus was more on the receiving end of executions, rather than carrying them out.

He was against the taking of any life!! These Religious Bigots try and justify Murder in his name! WTF happened to not killing!!

Al Giordano:

The original assassination attempt on Dr. Tiller came eight months into the Clinton presidency. The parallel with today’s offense ought to be obvious: a pro-choice president takes office and the violent extremists go all crazy, whipped up by some of the same right wing radio talkers today as sixteen years ago.

More thoughts from Al:

That today’s atrocity occurs not under the helm of an embattled liberal president, but of one that enjoys 67 percent support, still, from the American people, will have even more devastating consequences for the cultural and political right that has placed abortion at the center of its agenda. There is no need to demonize them with a broad brush for it. The first immediate consequence of the assassination of Dr. Tiller will be that it virtually removes the political points to be scored by those who planned to wage an anti-choice argument against US Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor.

I would also be very surprised if, in the coming days, some right-wing radio talkers and those from anti-choice organizations like Operation Rescue can’t help but make the sorts of outrageous statements about this act of terrorism that shock and provoke backlash from the American public. As a crew, they have already whipped themselves up into a mental state of frenzied derangement. The countdown now begins to find out which will shovel their own political graves over this one.

then domestic violence is terrorism too. also, hate crimes of all kinds.

terrorism is a word that is used nowadays to demonize — not to inform. it has lost all meaning other than the distinction of response: indefinite detention and war vs. fair trials and police.

Abortion is a choice.

A choice to end life.

I am not religious and attribute no religious consequences to this choice.

I am pro-choice.

But I’m also a realist.

“Right-wing domestic terrorism”

This HAS to be the meme that we need to unite around, and get the MSM to use.

I have to ask, if a captured domestic terr’ist has information on an imminent clinic attack or assassination of a medical practitioner, would rethug wingnuts advocate “enhanced interrogation” in such a “ticking timebomb scenario” ? I’m too disgusted to want to know the answer. ’cause let’s be completely clear about this: if the answer is anything other than an inequivocal ‘yes’ from these people, then what they’re really saying is, “we are only in favor of fightng terr’ists when the terr’ists worship a god other than our own.”

At Daily Kos, a diary: The George Tiller I Knew (excerpt):

Several years later my Mother and I were driving by his clinic in Wichita. Mom started complaining of chest pains, so I drove into his parking lot and ran in to get help. Dr. Tiller was by Mom’s side immediately, and stabilized her, before the heart attack could cause severe damage.

In 1980 I was pregnant with my first child. I had no insurance and couldn’t afford a doctors appointment until I was approved for a medical card.. Mom told Dr. Tiller and he brought me into his office where he examined me, free of charge. I can credit him with the very first picture taken of my son.

What does that mean?

I don’t understand your comment that domestic violence is terrorism. Who is being terrorized? The wife, who is the same one who is violenced? Unlike murder of abortion docs, which terrorizes all the rest of the same species.

What is “that”.

It means he thinks life begins at conception.

You said you were pro-choice but a realist. I’m just not sure what you mean. thanks

I mean, a man and a woman create a new life.

Then, the life is terminated.

Just that.

domestic violence terrorizes the entire family (other than the abuser). in societies where it is tolerated it affects others who might be vulnerable (for example: uppity women, rebellious children). similarly rape, lynching and hate crimes of any kind.

i don’t know why we seem compelled to see everything through the lens of terrorism but imo our society has become way too fixated on it.

my finger is “life” too. but there is no “life” that is terminated if my finger is cut off.

i think you are trying to argue about a separate human person – which is something quite different.

Got it. I was being U.S. centric, where domestic violence is confined to a narrow range. (Not that makes it acceptable.)

However, I don’t see that domestic violence in other countries is any of our business.

I agree that “terrorism” has become the military’s recent excuse for its raison d’etre, and is too widely applied, but that does not mean it does not exist.

Specious argument.

Your finger is part of you.

An embryo in a womb in is a living creature.

An embryo in a womb is a parasite.

get these old men out of my womb…….stat

You owe me a bottle of windex and a roll of paper towels! /s

How can you say this?

A parasite?

re domestic violence, i was referring to when i lived in texas.

and yes, i agree it exists, but without any general consensus about what it means — other than it’s something so awful that our criminal justice system can not deal with it. so long as that is the case, i don’t think it’s a good a idea to expand it’s use.

Maybe what Art45 is saying is that it is a complex situation. I am pro-choice. An embryo is both a parasite and a collection of living cells that may one day be a functioning human. Or not. The wingnuts only see the living cells as a person. Of course, this person could not live outside of the mother. So the host or mother gets to choose if the living cells get to stay.

what living creature if not me? a hypothetical embryo in my womb is part of me also.

Pretty simple: a parasite cannot live without the host, which pretty well describes the embryo.

Now if you want to support research and all the attendant costs to save every fertilized egg outside of utero, declare yourself and we’ll discuss that.

it pushes all the mothers organs out of there proper place….carrying a child to term is no walk in the park….i wish guys had to do it

Why do u type that the criminal justice sys cannot deal with domestic violence? It is my uninformed position that the sys is doing exactly that.

and there are way too many humans on this planet. Better to use birth control first. Abortion is a bad option but one that should be available to the woman.

Got it. I was being U.S. centric, where domestic violence is confined to a narrow range.

You’d be surprised.

I want to use the word terrorism because we have had it shoved in our faces for 8 years. Terrorism, 9/11, be afraid, Dems soft on Terror. I’ve had enough and I think the Rs and their wingnut base should have to deal with being called terrorists.

If this thread isn’t enough to get you blood boiling you can go upstairs with the 9/11 dopes.

Meaning only that outside the immediate group influneced, there is not much more widespread impact. Quite unlike murdering an abortion doc & terrorizing all the others. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I’m reading both and I think these nuts should meet.

I find myself wondering when it ends? When does the torture, the murder, outing CIA agents, rape and murder of Iraqi civilians, when does the right wing of this country get to stand and answer for their many crimes? When do people like Billo the clown, El Porko Grande, Sean Insanity, Coultergeist and the rest of them get to stand and be judged? I’m fucking sick of this shit. It’s time to fight back.

So if the suspect’s house if searched pursuant to a warrant and his computer records reveal contacts with Operation Rescue members in regard to the planning of one or more of the logistical aspects of this murder, wouldn’t that be enough to justify a RICO prosecution of Operation Rescue, and maybe more?

I certainly hope that that would be the case.

God bless Dr. Tiller.

Mary, most people are too ignorant or blindly religious to use birth control.

Even for the AP and other media outlets, the important information wasn’t that Dr. Tiller was murdered while ushering at a Lutheran Church, it was that he was a late-term abortion doctor.

Will Kansas treat this like Mississippi treated the murders of Goodman, Schwerner, and Cheney? Can they find a jury that won’t acquit him ahead of time?

i agree completely. but that is not the current message or actions coming from our government — which is what makes it so problematic imo.

It affects extended families – sometimes for generations.

Things are different now. But then, Kansas is Kansas.
I hope they will do the right thing.

Well, that’s quite the generalization.

Obviously most people use birth control of some sort, or the birth rate would be much higher than it is.

And I prefer to call ignorance – lack of knowledge, which given the state of sex education in the US is hardly surprising.

Sounds like a problem for shrinks, not legal sys.

Good luck

Huh?

I’m in no mood to deal in “sensitive” language. George Tiller is dead, and you want to argue semantics?

If you look at the WORLDWIDE birth rate, I’d say the preponderance of the evidence is on MY side.

I saw part of it too. CSPAN is Republican controlled now.

Talking about torture and waterboarding, last week GW said he asked “what’s legal?”. Olbermann said he would have asked “what works?”. Good one KO. And I was thinking what about administrating truth serem?

It sounds like the murderer of Dr. Tiller was very visible is this Operation Rescue group and I would expect they are investigating if there are any accomplishers.

The whole situation is sad.

Whether you believe or don’t believe in the right of a woman to have an abortion, there are unfortunate circumstances where this treatment path is an option – a viable, reasonable, medically indicated option – and this option is being taken away by people who have minimal understanding.

The hypocrisy is, they’re against killing, but they will kill to prevent the killing. And nowhere in any Bible I’ve ever read is that supported by the Christian religion – you can’t even take something out of context to support it.

I’m shocked and amazed that Dr. Tiller and others like him have received repeated death threats and no one’s taken any action to trace these threats back to the source and shut ‘em down. The killers will scream first amendment. First amendment says you can say what you want (Freedom of Speech), but there’s no codicil in there or in any other law that says you can kill someone with whom you disagree.

When someone incites violence, as some of the Operation Rescue folks have done, in writing or in speech, that constitutes a threat that needs to be shut down and shut down quickly. This BS is outside the realm of free speech.

lets put it simply, soldiers for allah, soldiers for jesus, one in the same, just different titles. The two most violent religions in the world.

and the funny thing about it, Allah and Jesus were men of peace, who’d a thunk!

Has anyone labeled Dr. Tiller’s assassination a late-term, post-partum abortion? It is hard to believe that many, if not most, of those advocating the murder of abortion providers call themselves christians. I doubt Jesus would have believed it either.