Comments on: Helene Cooper’s “Straw Man” Straw Man

By: robert.waldmann

robert.waldmann — Tue, 26 May 2009 01:23:42 +0000

Helene Cooper is a repeat straw(strawman) offender. She made the same absurd claim that Obama’s responses to his real critics are equivalent to Bush’s responses to his imaginary critics

Helene Cooper April 8th

“He often reverted to his favorite rhetorical devices — straw men — to make his points to the students. For instance, he said that “some people say that I’m being too idealistic” and ask him why he’s reaching out to Iranians,”

Of course, some people do say he was (and is) being to idealistic when reaching out to the Iranians, as I pointed out as soon as I read her article on the web the day before its official date.

By: MarkH

MarkH — Tue, 26 May 2009 00:22:47 +0000

I think Cooper is essentially calling our president a liar. But, as the internet search showed, it’s pretty clear she is the liar. Damn Liberal press!

By: selise

selise — Mon, 25 May 2009 16:20:19 +0000

i guess i think obama is caving while pretending not to cave. in other words, using your health care example, he pretends to stand up to the insurance companies while caving to their demands. it’s really quite clever if the goal is to stitch together a governing coalition that includes diametrically opposed interests — in this case corporate interests and the interests of those who voted for him. the corporations get the $$$ and the voters get the nice sounding words and clever marketing.

another v recent example was obama’s speech on gitmo. there was some beautiful rhetoric about rule of law and the constitution, etc AND indefinite detention without trial and conviction.

if cooper wanted to write a column about rhetorical devices, i think there is lots of material to work with. no need to make shit up.

By: timr

timr — Mon, 25 May 2009 16:06:19 +0000

the MSM has not been doing much actual “reporting” for many years. While the NYT used to be the “paper of record” it no longer is. Like the WaPo it rests on its reputation while being in the pocket of the rethug party. The NYT printed the lies fed to it by the bushies on Iraq, when called on that they did nothing. No, the MSM is no longer doing its job of informing the people, rather it is censoring what we see, hear and read by not giving us real news but instead pushing “news” and confrontation that is manufactured. The Obama/cheney “debate” comes to mind. While looking to CNN last nite(I never check on fns for breaking news) to see what they had on the nuke test in NK-which I found out about at 9pm CDT on 5/24 on KBS, a Korean network where my wife and I were watching a Korean movie-all CNN had was 2 talking heads blathering about Obama/cheney and who was right. Manufactured “news”, non stories about non confrontations. We need to face it, our MSM gives the sheeple what the corporate interests want. And what they want us to know is not in our best interests, but theirs.
The best reporting on major stories in the US can be found mostly in stories from non US networks. While we are spoon fed mostly celebrity news about people we really don’t need to know about. The last time I watched US network news, the real “news” was over by the first commercial. I get better national news coverage from my local network affiliate than from the millionaire “anchors”. I understand why most people under 30 would rather get their news from “The Daily Show”. A fake news program gives us better understanding of the news than the networks do. And Jon Stewart is a much better interviewer than the current MTP host-david gregory- ever thought of being. Color me disgusted with the US version of the MSM

By: selise

selise — Mon, 25 May 2009 16:03:46 +0000

I don’t think there is any argument with the “some would say.” That is empirically what they did say.

i agree completely.

By: wigwam

wigwam — Mon, 25 May 2009 16:00:50 +0000

[…] when he says:

“There are those who say these plans are too ambitious, that we should be trying to do less, not more”

my impression is that obama is creating an illusion: that his actions are more of a departure from the status quo than they actually are.

Obama whimpers before he caves. For example, representatives of single-payer healthcare are not invited to the table. Our Capitulator-in-Chief needs to stop with the whining and the “nudges” and instead take a decisive stand for doing the right thing.

By: Jane Hamsher

Jane Hamsher — Mon, 25 May 2009 15:59:38 +0000

While I agree with you that they are not as much as a departure from the status quo as we’d perhaps like, I don’t think there is any argument with the “some would say.” That is empirically what they did say.

But yes, he’s using a rhetorical device that cast his actions in the light that his right-wing opponents shine on it, which doesn’t tell the whole story.

By: selise

selise — Mon, 25 May 2009 15:41:56 +0000

after reading the column, i have no idea what cooper’s point is other than it makes no sense to me — it can’t be a strawman unless an opponent’s position is misrepresented. in addition to google, i wonder if a dictionary might also be of use?

however, i do think obama has been using a rhetorical device to create an illusion. of course it’s true that big coal doesn’t want a carbon tax and insurance companies don’t want single payer and rightwingers are pretending once again to be for small government (also, to be fair, it’s not just right wingers and corp interests - it’s also true that some of us wanted less bankster bailouts). but when he says:

“There are those who say these plans are too ambitious, that we should be trying to do less, not more”

my impression is that obama is creating an illusion: that his actions are more of a departure from the status quo than they actually are.

By: SouthernDragon

SouthernDragon — Mon, 25 May 2009 15:23:54 +0000

Inspires me to make a crab salad this afternoon.

Wolf medicine music

By: jaango

jaango — Mon, 25 May 2009 15:22:32 +0000

And one last observation for today. If you’ll notice, that among all the wingnuts in America, none are fluent in both English and Spanish. (Oop, a tad too much snark.)

Jaango