Advertising and marketing gurus have so successfully established the importance of “brand” that we in the political sphere often lose sight of the real core of political argument: character.
The distinction is not trivial. Brand is about a list of facts or attributes. It’s character people use in sizing up strangers, checking in on friends, weighing the merits of a politician.
Coca-Cola is not about content. In fact, it’s nearly content-less. It is a successful brand. Character is all about content. That’s why it’s important in politics. We predict future actions of others based on our beliefs about their character. We can make those predictions because characters appear in stories, and stories follow certain arcs.
We organize our social selves through narratives. We tell stories. We listen to stories. We organize our memories in stories. Even our dreams are stories, though sometimes crazy ones. They are often crazy because our brains try mightily to organize the random neuronal firings during sleep into coherent narratives.
Narratives have characters. They don’t have brands. They have protagonists or heroes. They have victims. They have villains. They have helpers and other secondary characters.
In 2004, Sen. John Kerry tried to establish his role or character. At the Democratic National Convention in Boston, Kerry presented himself as a valiant war hero. That’s such a stock character that Americans would have no trouble understanding it.
The problem was, Kerry didn’t act like a hero. He did not quickly and forcibly stand up to his attackers (Swift Boaters who, with strategic brilliance, diminished Kerry the Hero) as a hero would. He didn’t behave like the character he wanted to establish. A good novelist or film-maker wouldn’t make this mistake. Kerry’s movie flopped.
George W. Bush and his handlers understood the role of character, as infuriating as their success is. One could look at the time of Bush’s national public life, from the start of his campaign in 1999 to the end of his term in 2008, as a decade-long movie. Bush’s character was well defined. Americans thought they could predict what the character would do. Many of us knew the character was a hollow fabrication, but our early predictions of Bush disasters went unheard because of the power of his narrative fictions.
Historically, many progressives have believed that Universal Reason would lead their audiences to reach the right and just solutions if they were just given the facts. But people don’t think like that. We think in stories, stories influenced by emotion, by habit, by expectations.
After 2004 there was a lot of talk about values. The term “framing” is all about values, though many mistake it as another word for “spin.” The term originated in the work of sociologist Erving Goffman, and by it he referred to the narrative frames that dominated social interaction. For instance, a hospital comes with predictable roles. Janitors clean, surgeons operate on us, nurses nurse. The hospital is a frame with predictable roles.
In political and cultural communication, our frames and narratives have to match up. We can’t have the Big Bad Wolf reminisce about his compassionate grandmother while he swallows Red’s grandmother. It’s a matter of character, you might say.
We may find it becomes surprisingly easy to express our values if we begin by thinking of who we are. What is our character? Just like we do in our private relations, we might discover that we naturally communicate our values through characterizations in narratives voters can understand.
Barack Obama understands stories. His grasp of cultural narrative and character is one of the things that most alarms his opponents. His character is well-defined, and most of the Republican attacks upon him are intended to 1) Undo or replace the characterization; or, 2) Point out how his actions don’t match the character Americans believe him to be.
Forget brand. We are writing the novel of America’s future. We must write the characters of that future.



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sounds just like George Lakoff in the Political Mind.
want to know more, get the book.
credit where credit is due?
Good afternoon Glenn,
Thanks for making me think :)
thank ya glenn ..
It seems harder to write a character narrative for a complex personality like Obama than for a cardboard cutout like Bush. Obama’s book, Dreams From My Father, reads almost like a novel, smoothly, as if he were talking to himself, explaining himself to himself, in the presence of his readers.
The main problem is that the rethugs have had great success in defining who Gore and Kerry were. They always fall back on the methods that have worked well for them before. Granted that they had the help of the “libral” pundocracy in their trashing of Gore and Kerry helped the rethugs by never showing that he had, in the words of Steven Colbert, any balls.
The rethugs renaming the character of the dems goes back to when Lee Atwater helped bush sr by trashing (can not spell the name-Ducocus??) So now they believe that they can do the same thing to Obama. Somehow I do not think that going back to the well is going to work this time.
The sheeple have been so scared by 8 years of bushco unrelenting fearmongering, scared so much that attempting to rebrand Obama thru fear will not work because the sheeple are numb.
Also the fact that Obama had 2 years to introduce himself, brand himself as it were, that the rethugs are finding it impossible to change that brand. That is why the attempt to identify him as a fellow traveler of Ayers-the fact that nobody remembered just why Ayers might be “bad” never caught on, if you have to explain it, it can not catch on-fell flat, despite efforts by palin to make Obama the “fearful other” and the “fearful black man”.
The same reasoning can be made when the rethugs attempted to join Obama at the hip with his preacher-whatever his name, he had his 15 min.-by taking words out of context. Obama deflated that line of attack with his speech and he might have been able to shortstop the rethug attack(fearmongering) on GITMO with his recent speech. The rethugs can try to rule thru fear-if we ever go past my personal tipping point(if the sheeple elect someone like palin as prez) with rethug rule, then I am off to Canada to sit out the resulting storm-but whether or not the sheeple will follow them this time has yet to be decided
Is it your character to attack? Enjoy the post.
Since I’ve worked with George Lakoff for several years, I should make it clear that his work on frames and narratives contributes greatly to this. Feet of the master and all that.
Yes, masaccio, there is more nuance and complexity to our worldview, our narratives, our characterizations. I mean, we’re anti-Manicheans. It might be said that recognition of the beauty and depth of it all is central to our beliefs, and melodramatic, cardboard cutouts, as you say, cannot possibly capture it.
On the other hand, there is nothing necessarily complex about the narrative challenge. Look at Greek Tragedy, or the simple-as-folk-tales movies (at least, in terms of spare narrrative) of Jean Renoir. In these instances storytellers use simplicity to open the doors to deeper humanistic truths. Also, character takes precedence even over narrative arc. Which might tell us that character is even more important for us to develop.
Is there a way this/narrative,etc explains much of the angst about the President and his change of positions, etc? Does he look inconsistent in character or narrative? Have folks been too impatient? Maybe we are so afraid because there is no trust left. Or, would you say that his performance has seemed enough out of what we thought was his character to be cause for real concern?
I don’t understand the point of this post. Republicans use false narratives all the time. It is their hallmark. What we are seeing is that Democrats use narratives that are equally false, just not as crazily false.
In politics, brands apply more to parties than to individuals because the idea in part of a brand is that it is transferable from person to person.
Character is much more about the individual. Its essence is “Trust me”. Well we saw how well that turned out with Bush and we are seeing how well it is turning out with Obama.
Bush post-9/11 had very high approval ratings just as Obama has them now. The problem is that at some point these have to tie in to real world results. The public can be flimflammed for years but there comes a time when the lack of discernible accomplishments causes public sentiment to turn. A President’s overwhelming support can evaporate almost overnight. He may remain King of the Village but now he is also its idiot. Once begun this process is irrevocable. We saw it with Bush. The same is likely to happen to Obama.
It will not be crazy Republicans or even progressive critics like myself who will take Obama down. He will do this to himself through his own bad choices and failures.
Yes. We build up our own characterizations (supplementing and altering, say, Obama’s self-characterization) of a hero and project the hero’s future behavior based on the projections. When it doesn’t happen just so, we’re disappointed.
It is also the working of ideology, however. I demand X. The President’s said he’ll do X. When he doesn’t, I construct my own critique — based on ideology, not the movement of a character through the world.
There’s no right or wrong here, we all do it, and no human will ever meat the idealized standards of folk characterizations. That’s why it always works most easily with reconstructed narratives of yesterday’s heroes or with martyred heroes. We can’t project their future behavior (and be disappointed) because all the behavior’s in the past.
masaccio is upstairs!
Elizabeth Warren Talks TALF
well… at lease one American brand is still the same: the Dr. Strangelovean desk-bound generals who want to scare us and plunge us into permanent war. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..iran_usa_2 Iran on the brink of nukes! Run! ;-P
It’s not true that progressives are as skilled at narrative and character. At least, they haven’t been. It’s because we believe so strongly in the power of reason.
Anyway, you’re right that parties might better be “branded” while individuals develop public characters. Also, if constructed thoughtfully and honestly, the characterizations of progressive public figures will naturally embody and frame values. They won’t be false narratives. However, as I commented above, within the whole complex process of cultural narratives there is an idealization of character that will always be disappointed by real-world contingencies. As I said, that’s why the most persistent tales are about martyrs or yesterday’s heroes. They can’t by reason of their passing disappoint us in the future.
Great stuff Glenn, as a student of the story telling medium and as a graphic designer who has extensive experience with brands and marketing collateral, this is a very thought provoking piece.
Thanks, Millineryman. Would love to hear your further thoughts.
Dear Glenn: A couple of quibbles with precision. As one who values precision in language, I’d like to offer a couple of suggestions.
1. “Framing” is about values…and more. “Framing” is, in the broader sense, about PRESUPPOSITIONS…those concepts included by implication. Within some behavioral communities, there’s a game called “Frame Wars,” in which two parties keep “out-framing” each other until one is stumped. The easiest way to win is to consistently apply one of the three methods of language manipulation (deletion, distortion, generalization) to the presuppositions embedded in the other’s utterances. Most political “framing” is not about values, but by forcing the opponent, in accepting a sentence that is a Trojan horse containing an unrecognized presupposition, the original “framer” can then claim, “Ah HA! You accept the premise that (’favorite deception here’)”. The so-called “pro-life” community (where “pro-life” has the presupposition than any dissent is immediately “anti-life”) uses this device all the time.
2. “Brand” and “character” are not intrinsically at odds. In the marketing lexicon, “Brand” is a ‘promise.’ Think of “McDonald’s” as a brand; it is not a promise of a gourmets delight, but the promise of complete consistency: The Quarterpounder you buy in Sioux City will be virtually indistinguishable from the Quarterpounder you buy in Atlanta. Or, think of the “Brand” for Yugo: The promise was cheap, but the underlying “character” was erroneously projected as quality; the promise was broken.
I like to think of “brand” as a symbol for the gestalt that is the product or service on offer. But, the “brand” can be corrupted: The Republicans, for instance, have equated their brand with obstinate refusal to cooperate, and they are losing. When (and if) the REAL (i.e., non-extreme) conservatives regain control of their party and offer practical and feasible alternative ideas, that party will regain much of the respect the once had. The fundamental problem is that RNC seems to be trying to treat “brand” as the substance, and change the public perception of that “brand,” despite the rot beneath it (the ‘Party of NO!’) which they refuse to address. So, in their case, “brand” really is nothing more than an attempt at “spin.”
What’s really relevant here, that the Republican’s don’t understand, is that you don’t get to assign “values” to your own “brand.” Only the ostensible customers, and the public-at-large can assign that. As Seneca wrote: “Behave as you would wish to be perceived.” The Republicans are getting the image/brand they deserve, based on their observable behavior. When they change their presuppositions, they may retain the trust they once had.
Oops! “…containing an unrecognized presupposition the original “framer” can than claim…” should read “…containing an unrecognized presupposition, the original “framer” can then claim…”
I’ll leave a response a little latter once I get past this distraction that my mind is in right now.
I really wasn’t talking about progressives. I was talking about Democrats. All through the Bush years, Democrats were feeding us narratives about how they didn’t have the votes, that they needed to keep their powder dry, that they needed to pick their fights carefully, etc. But boy, when they did have those votes, we would really see them act. Well now the Democrats control the whole government. The Republicans are on one long implode. Yet despite this, Democrats are essentially continuing Bush’s policies into a third term.
Democrats are doing just fine in the construction of their narratives, thank you very much. As I said, they are not as crazy as Republican ones but they are equally dishonest.
Blue Texan is upstairs!
Admiral Mike Mullen: Guantanamo a “Recruiting Symbol” for Al Qaeda, Should Be Closed
Seneca has it exactly, and thanks for that quote.
There are important qualitative differences between brand and character, however. Not the least of which are the expectations and judgments we tend to reserve for people — not institutions or objects. Brand is a much tighter straightjacket. That’s why in contemporary “Batman” or “Iron Man” movies the super-heroes are humanized. Otherwise, there would be no drama, no uncertainty about a character’s future action. So, a movie studio might refer to Batman as its “franchise,” but Batman better be a character, not a brand.
Also, frames do come with entailments, which I take is what you mean by presuppositions. So, the frame “elephant” entails “big,” “floppy ears,” “trunk,” etc. Or, you are speaking of the deep frames embedded in surface frames. In either case, I agree with you. When I say frames involve values, I mean to say our values come with frames, and if we want others to understand those values and accept them, we have to use those frames. It’s not an issue of spin or deception.
Here you go Glenn.
I think the state of the culture today has blurred the lines. When cultures used story telling as their method for passing on information about history, beliefs, rituals. etc, embedded in those stores were the legends or lore of outstanding individuals or events. The scope of their world, the purpose of sharing that information, and means for delivering the information was much narrower then what we have today.
With the advent of technology putting the ability of creating and marketing in the hands of many, branding has gone mainstream. Twenty years ago it would be extremly rare to have administrative personnel working with brand guidelines, today it’s commonplace. How do you define yourself is a crowded marketplace? In the narrow scope of a people carrying on traditions that is not a concern. In a world where business is conducted 24/7/365 at the speed of fiber optics it can be.
Coke is a brand, and the product itself is content less. The company behind though does have a story, a history and the people who create this product do have stories to tell. There is a culture there but in a different sense then a culture of a native people. It’s not the character of the soda, it’s the character of the company, and the culture that drives it.
Corporations have realized they need to be more then just a brand. They craft these narratives about the people who make the company up, and they use corporate storytellers to create the narratives. Either you like the flavor of Coke or you don’t. The stories of the people behind the brand can’t influence your purchase, but it can influence your view of a company. If it a public company, and you hear about these stories of how great the business practices maybe, you might be inclined to invest in the brand. Or you may be drawn to work there. The audience of today has a much broader scope of the stories they need to make decisions.
John Kerry would fit into the legends as opposed to a myth because he’s a hero and a real person. And yes, his legendary status was totally smashed by his lackluster response. It’s not what’s expected for a legendary hero. Obama does have a story to tell, and he was savvy enough to craft a brand out of it. I do believe he’s the first politician to do this. Just look at how his campaign logo influenced Pepsi’s refreshed brand.
I am a trained fine artist who scoffed at the notion of a corporate storyteller in the late 90’s when they began their marketing push. Flash had just came out and offered a new medium to tell stories. The lines got blurred again. A tool was presented that could use animation in a quick, portable format to tell stories. These stories could be delivered to target audiences. Much like the storyteller from the culture who used storytelling as the tool to deliver the content, corporate storytellers created the message and delivered either a Flash movie, or a link to tell the story. While this type of story is not a myth that would influence Boticelli, in the current state of our culture, it does fill a niche.
Really interesting. I’m intrigued by the move to corporate story telling. I should say the expansion, since they’ve created characters and narratives since the mass audience was first created decades ago. But you are right, they’ve greatly refined the practice.
Also, these mini-narratives have to reinforce the meta-narratives, like elements or vignettes in a novel should reinforce or reflect the overall work. This is a great communications challenge for those of us in politics who want to use new media. It can be very fragmenting, at least it runs that risk. Obama was able to pull it off — largely because he had the budget to enforce the meta-narrative thoroughly.
I’d love to find studies or research on this: unifying mini-narratives within an encompassing tale in the public sphere.
Thanks for taking the time to post your intriguing observations. Now I’m the one that’s got to do some more thinking…
I like the ideas and the post. Very clearly written.
Of course (23) and others are right that there’s interplay between the brand and the stories. A great example these days is the Apple ads, each of which is a little story that relates the Apple and “PC” brands explicitly as characters. Cumulatively they have had a big impact.
So my question: If we were going to create a similar media campaign around democrats and republicans, and/or around a series of policy issues, what little stories would we write? Note that these are stories that play out in 60 seconds, so they are very very pithy, but each is still a complete story, sometimes with new characters, etc.
Ideally our stories would connect the brand (Democratic, Progressive) with the issue in a way that strengthens the brand, makes sense of the issue, and defines other policies / brands in ways that render them harmless or undesirable.
These stories don’t have to attack on other approaches, or even characterize them negatively. In the Apple ads, Hodgeman (the PC character) seems nice enough, and even somewhat sympathetic, but not someone we’d want to depend on. This is important because depolarizing is in our interest, as long as the net effect is to make it easier for independents and Republicans to accept our stories, support our policies, and perhaps vote for our candidates.
I do think we (lots of intersecting groups) need to get on this. An example of what happens when we don’t is the previous run at health policy reform, when the Harry and Louise stories defined the issues. We have to get good stories out there.
Actually, I’m wrong, the Apple ads are 30 seconds, and given the lead in and brand display at the end, you only get 24 seconds to tell the story. But they are complete and punchy.
So here we are, the creative class! Surely we can generate a powerful collection of punchy stories. Why aren’t we already the leaders in this?
Because we haven’t historically approached our communications strategy this way. We have in the past tended to say, “Millions of Americans are without health insurance. Government needs to make sure they get health care.” We hope and think the facts will carry the day. But look at that message. There’s a victim — “millions of people” — and there’s an abstract hero — “government” — but the “we” is left totally undefined. If we think first of the character who would want to protect others in the community — a fireman, say — the creative process might be easier.
You’re welcome, it was fun putting it down in words. I can see the challenge we’re faced with. With political issues, especially with progresives and Democrats, coming to a concensus of the mini is a challenge. Throw in the all new media and it becomes very challenging to stay on message, target the message to the intended audience, and still have it support the meta.
How can you deliver 140 characters on a tweet and have a senior citizen gleam the same message from a radio/tv spot? Almost makes you long the storyteller of days gone by.
Advertising and marketing gurus have so successfully established the importance of “brand” that we in the political sphere often lose sight of the real core of political argument: character.
Hardly. What is at the real core of political argument is meaning.
We predict future actions of others based on our beliefs about their character. We can make those predictions because characters appear in stories, and stories follow certain arcs.
Wrong. We make predictions based on historical “facts,” supported by logical “laws” and our capacity for associative reasoning. But these things have limits when it comes to forecasting human behavior: example: New Coke was a disaster. Our brains are ‘designed’ to solve immediate problems; forecasting is a joke. Then again, we do have a certain tribal/herd mentality…to say nothing of any narrative’s ability to evoke an emotionally meaningful response.
The human brain’s ‘default psychology’ is to perceive patterns that conform with previous systems of belief and then behaviorally incorporate those patterns into what might be called a ‘Gestalt’ narrative/worldview.
Perhaps the modern conservative view is that humans are too associative; a bit too adaptive.
You’ve put your finger on it. How can a tweet fit into the narrative needs of culture? You couldn’t write that sentence even 2 years ago!
I think the question’s answerable, so long as we ARE developing and delivering macro-messages. Every communication doesn’t need to do everything, carry all the weight.
But if the potential audience attention is always distracted and fragmented, what then? Does our waking life become like our dream life, and we cobble together crazy stories so we can process info coming in fragments? Of course, I’m getting perilously close to post-modern dissolution of the narrative self stuff here, so this is really already passe. And I’m just talking about maintaining coherence in old-fashioned community story-telling.
Thanks for the further analysis and ideas!
Thinking more about the Apple ads (I guess I need concrete examples): The “hero” is Apple itself but it never appears or is even referenced. The main actors (Mac and PC) are a bit abstract but they are personalized. In fact many of the ads are clever personifications or illustrations of abstract concepts. The audience is addressed directly by the characters, we aren’t just watching them. But the relationship between the characters is primary.
It seems like our schematic two “characters” (as progressives) are the “old way” and the “new way”. The “old way” isn’t bad, it is maybe just somewhat weak, foolish, frustrating or otherwise inadequate. The “new way” isn’t perfect, or shiny and futuristic, it is just a common sense improvement that solve some problems or adds some value to our lives.
It also seems more specifically the characters are people (or roles) providing the services (as you suggest).
Here’s an example of how this plays out for health care, I’ll try to think of more. Note that I’m presuming we actually adopt good policies:
“Old way” and “new way” Doctors or pharmacists acting out vignettes about records, billing, approval of treatment, whether people keep their coverage, how drug costs are set, etc.
Records
Old way: multiple incompatible records, can’t easily share
New way: uniform online standards
Billing
Old way: incomprehensible bills, different versions from each insurance company.
New way: comprehensible bills, like your social security statement (the SSA does this really well)
Approval of treatment
Old way: interference by non-MD bureaucrats, denial of essential treatment
New way: public plan option, like medicare
Whether people keep their coverage
Old way: Patients lose their jobs, they lose their health care (relevant!)
New way: Patients always have the option of coverage, including public plan
How drug costs are set
Old way: Drug company monopolies, crazy prices
New way: Medicare negotiation drives down prices
(Of course we already have the example of the Veteran’s Administration that does all this, maybe we should explicitly refer to them.)
Because I couldn’t stomach the direction our country was heading the past 8 years, it forced me to understand why the storytelling used by the likes of Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity was effective. I did read Thinking Points and The Political Mind. Here’s my take on this topic.
We need to be clear in how we discuss storytelling. As you point out Glenn, people confuse “framing” with “spin.” Framing is a tool that can be used for either good or bad. Through lying, deception and other manipulation tactics, Republicans like Karl Rove use framing to distort people’s perceptions of reality away from the truth. As progressives, we can use framing and facts to bring our audiences’ perception of reality closer to the truth. This is the difference between false framing and truthful framing.
Republican mouthpieces like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh tell fictional stories about Democrats and Republicans. As progressives, it’s our job to tell non-fiction stories about Democrats and Republicans.
So Glenn, perhaps we might stay away from the word “novel,” which is by definition “fiction,” in describing what we’re doing.
As Dr. Drew Westen points out, for a political candidate to run a successful campaign, you have to focus first and foremost not on a litany of “issues,” but on four stories:
1. The story you tell about yourself
2. The story your opponent is telling about himself
3. The story your opponent is telling about you
4. The story you are telling about your opponent
Candidates who offer compelling stories in all four quadrants of this “message grid” win, and those who leave any of them to chance generally lose.
I think we can apply this same strategy to drive and support our values and progressive agenda.
- Tom
ps. I hate the word “spin.” It’s really the sugarcoated word for “manipulate,” which requires some level of deception. When you have the truth and facts on your side, there’s no need to spin. If you want to understand how manipulation works, read “In Sheep’s Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative People” by Dr. George K. Simon or check out his web site here:
http://counsellingresource.com…..n-tactics/
Well, Kant thought the potential was there. But decades of cognitive research, now reflected in and tested in multiple fields, from economics to sociology to political science, tells us that we do not make decisions based on simple reasoning from facts, scare quotes or not.
In answer to your first observation, that meaning is more important than character in political decision-making, I can only answer that voters choose people they judge through psychologically complex and emotional interactions having to do with trust, expectations, ideology, cultural preference, immediate felt needs, etc. etc. Two candidates can and often do mean similar things. The one with the better story and characterization will prevail. Of course, if you broaden “meaning” so far that it includes story and characterization, I won’t disagree, but we are stretching the concept so far I’m not certain it would be useful.
Regarding “post-modern dissolution of the narrative self”, as Stewart Brand said, “We can’t put it together; it is together” — we can let it dissolve, it will still reintegrate. It is hubris to think coherence is something we must or can impose.
But specifically regarding tweets, someone will no doubt write a novel consisting entirely of tweets (possibly someone already has) and it may be as coherent a narrative as a Victorian epistolary novel — in which the letters, after all, are typically no longer than blog posts.
Similarly if we build narratives using 24 second vignettes, we just have to have a lot of them to build up the larger story. The narrative coherence arises from the meaningful relationships between the vignettes rather than from a carefully crafted order in the telling.
Narratives presented this way will be more resilient than ones that depend on getting a long sequence of thoughts in the right order all at once. And I’m pretty sure they are more consonant with how people understand the world most of the time.
Great points. The story matrix you mention (attributing to Weston) has been around awhile. I forget the guy who thought it up, but it’s known as the “(Guy’s Name) Box” or something like that.
You know, at its simplest all I’m suggesting is that we think in terms of character and narrative — and use them as tools in building our messages. “Is this consistent with the story I’ve told about myself?” for instance.
I agree about false and truthful framing. For instance, Bush’s “compassionate conservatism” proved to be a lie. When Obama talks about empathy, however, he means it. It’s a truth, truthfully employed. This distinction is often lost because the press (just to name one of many culprits) doesn’t want to have to think about what’s true and what’s not true. So lies are reported as equivalent to truths. You know, fair and balanced, we report, you decide, and all that crap.
This is really good, and I think you are doing exactly what needs doing, using concepts of character and narrative to arrive at creative messages. Terrific. If you don’t mind, I might use your examples — and our discussion and the very process and the forum of that discussion — in presentations I give on the importance of thinking about character and narrative.
I completely agree with you and Stewart Brand. There’s something exciting about new narratives emerging from tweets. But it would be different from the epistolary novel. In the latter case, the novelist has developed a narrative behind the scenes, and the letters are written in support of that narrative.
In the former, we’re talking about something like true emergence. That’s a cool idea.
what’s your evidence? how long have you know him intimately enough to make that kind of judgement accurately?
it’s when you make claims like this that my bs meter is pegged.
Selise, I understand you don’t like or trust Obama. Perhaps I should have said, “I believe Obama means it.” I think the evidence of his repeated use of the term (a term which invites criticism of the “bleeding heart” sort from conservatives) signals sincerity. Also, based on interaction with him and his campaign during my days with Lakoff tell me he was looking for ways to talk about his values, values based on empathy. I don’t believe he was looking to us for deceitful cover. Proof? I don’t have it. Never will.
i don’t know obama. i don’t know what motivates him or anything about what he is thinking. all i know is some of what he does and that most (all?) successful politicians excel at political seduction.
i have no problem with that statement. bs meter is silent.
but when you try to sell me your beliefs as fact? yeah, i’ve got a problem with that. a serious problem. even if i agreed with you – because i think selling your beliefs as thought they were facts is dishonest. not that you are intentionally being dishonest, but the result is the same. and you do it a lot.
as a kid i was indoctrinated with some very right wing beliefs in the church i belonged to. the process of breaking with that indoctrination taught me to be very wary of people who try to manipulate my beliefs.
i invite you to try to persuade – not manipulate – me. but please make a distinction between what you can justify as fact and what is your personal belief.
p.s. i didn’t ask for proof, i only asked for evidence.
Use any of this with my blessing, I’d be delighted if it can help move this approach succeed.
Reflecting a bit it seems like we can do the same thing for lots of topic areas: military spending (cold war vs. multi-lateral world); education (don’t know the issues well enough, but one is educating for factory / corporation vs. life long learning and creating one’s own narrative); energy and environmental policy; etc.
In each case the two characters would need to be specific to that domain: enlisted people for military vignettes, I guess; teachers for education; engineers or construction people for energy and environment; etc. I’d love to see some vignettes between an “old way” energy worker (oil drilling guy) and a “new way” guy (solar or wind builder, but obviously a blue collar construction guy).
This character building is harder than the Apple case where they have the same two guys in each vignette. But I think it can work fine. There will need to be some common themes in all of the “old way” characters and in all of the “new way” characters to help tie them together for people.
A tangent to your main point but a fun one.
I was actually thinking of a tweet novel made up just like an epistolary novel — though of course each depends on the author’s (and to an extent the reader’s) experience of the real thing.
But amazingly enough there is a real emergent IRC “short story” that has just come to my attention (regarding a pretty nerdy topic, the wonderfulness of Perl 6). Of course it was edited, but I think not falsified. It has a narrative arc, a little character development and even a surprise ending. It is actually surprisingly close to twitter, since most of the “utterances” are actually under 140 characters. The conventions are different, and it is closer to a real conversation, but still…
These are serious allegations. You accuse me of manipulating you with intent by presenting my beliefs as fact. And you accuse me of doing it “a lot.”
You are wrong, and your words are slander. I do not know your motivations, and I will not speculate.
Read someone else and refrain from commenting on my posts if you wish. Should you wish to continue reading and commenting on my posts, I’ll do my best to reply honestly to your comments — which I have encouraged in the past. But I won’t be silent in the face your slander.
i specifically wrote that i did not think it was intentional:
i’m sorry that was not clear. i have no reason to doubt your good intentions. which is why i tried to describe my reaction to your statements (and more bluntly than i would in the middle of an active thread) – i thought you would want to know. perhaps i was wrong in that also.
Selise, I do want to know your thoughts and feelings. Perhaps you meant something less than I understood. But your allegation appeared to me to be that I was repeatedly dishonest and manipulative. It really doesn’t matter whether you think the dishonesty and manipulation is intentional. I’m 55 years old. I’ve been a writer and political activist for almost three decades. I have never even had a political opponent make such an allegation against me. I could not let it go unanswered.
I mean what I have said in the past, that disagreement is welcomed, that agitation can be healthy. This did not seem healthy criticism to me.
I write personal essays, a form and style that is centered upon my beliefs. I do not write that Obama is honestly using the term “empathy” for any reason other than I believe that to be the case. There are no facts to prove my belief one way or the other. And that is often the case in human relations, and since most of my writing falls into the personal essay category, nearly everything I say is bound up in my beliefs.
I would ask you to please consider the force of allegations of dishonesty and manipulation. I have worked all my life against dishonesty and manipulation. I can’t prove that either. But I believe if you asked the hundreds or thousands of people I have worked with or written about all these many years, the evidence would support my assertion.
I’d like to continue this fruitful discussion. I’m not certain how to find an email, and don’t think it appropriate to post addresses here…
I too would like to continue this. I’d think you could find some of my information from my profile, but I don’t see how you’d get to it.
You can find my email address on my blog (which unfortunately doesn’t have any posts about our primary topic here).