Welcome to Firedoglake, Senator Whitehouse. We’re really honored to have you join us.

We had some readers who couldn’t be here but wanted to ask some questions. Phred asked:

1) Have you seen the OPR report yet?
2) Will the original draft be made available as well as the final version?
3) How soon may the public expect to see it?

Honored to be with you!

Also from phred:

4) Many of us are keeping an eye on the calendar because we are worried the statute of limitations will expire for various crimes the Bush administration may have committed. Is Congress paying attention to these dates as well, and if so are they trying to stall on purpose or will they commit to ensuring their investigations will conclude with sufficient time so that charges may be brought as indicated by the evidence?

Welcome, Senator Whitehouse.

Welcome, Senator. Thank you for taking the time to stop by.

Good morning and thanks for taking the time to be with us.

Why shouldn’t every American have the same health care you and the rest of Congress receive? Why is it so hard for members of Congress to defend the rights of their human constituents instead of the corporate ones?

Good morning, Senator Whitehouse. The hearing on May 13 was fascinating. Did Zoufan add more to his testimony later? Specifically re: the timeline he attempted to discuss but was quashed immediately by Sen. Graham?

I have not seen the OPR report yet, and do not know what changes, if any, there are from the original draft. That’s a good question, and it will be asked. Marshall Jarrett, the head of OPR, did promise Senator Durbin and I that it would be public, and it could be out any day now.

Sen Whitehouse, thank you for being here. On behalf of Jim White, I’d like to ask – would you be willing to put a hold on Gen. McCrystal’s appointment until Dawn Johnsen is confirmed?

And one from me. In reading the SSCI narrative and Philip Zelikow’s account of his own memo, it’s clear that both the Senate and Zelikow were pushing teh Administration to address teh Amendments that we use to comply with CAT: 5th, 8th, and 14th. But we know Steven Bradbury basically dismissed all but the 5th.

As a former prosecutor, can you address what the 8th amendment requires in terms of detainee treatment (both criminal and intelligence)? And what does it mean that Bradbury basically blew off compliance with the 8th?

That’s a question for the Attorney General. I can assure you that this matter has been brought to his attention. By the way, having worked with Eric Holder, I have the very highest confidence in him.

Will SJC get to review it and then it’ll be made public, or will it be made public right away?

Thanks for coming to FDL Senator.

Senator Whitehouse,

Thanks for coming. I do have a question I would like to ask, if you do not mind.

Of late the positions of (IMHO)reasonableness that I espouse: following our laws, treating people as fairly as possible, and trying to do the best for all of the people, have been dismissed, by and large, as mewlings from radical left.

I am neither radical nor particularly “Left-leaning.” In fact I am probably a little conservative by nature. But I just do not understand how believing in the law for everyone is somehow considered to be a radical position.

(And that is not even to mention the ridiculous policy differences between how the banks and the auto industry is being treated.)

Thanks.

Take a look at the Judiciary Committee website, and look at his written testimony, which was lengthier and more complete than the oral statement.

Welcome Sen. Whitehouse!

Jim White, an FDL and Oxdown regular could not be here today, but would very much like to know if you plan to put a hold on the McChrystal nomination until Dawn Johnsen can be confirmed.

In fact, he has a post up at Oxdown about it:

http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/5284

Best regards… we do appreciate your being as frank as you can be on these issues.

From Leen:

I have listened to you during numerous hearings and I have no doubts about your sincerity and commitment to the “rule of law” But after watching and listening to the type of concerns the Republicans had about the “rule of law” during the Clinton administration, I lost faith in this country and our leaders. After closely watching and listening to the run up to the invasion of Iraq based on a “pack of lies”, I have lost faith in our country and our leaders. After witnessing the death and destruction (via the internet) in Iraq which is obviously a direct consequence of our illegal and immoral invasion of a country that had not threatened us, I have lost faith in our country and our leaders. After hearing about the torture in Abu Gharib first from a dear friend who was in Iraq in 2003 with the Christian Peace Maker team who were interviewing family members of people in Abu Gharib and then eventually reading about the torture in our media I lost faith in my country and our leaders.
Do you think we will witness our Representatives hold those responsible for false WMD intelligence, Niger Documents, torture, breaking International treaties etc etc.
Senator Whitehouse I attended the nomination hearings of Attorney General Holder. I heard you, Leahy, Feinstein, Feingold, Holder repeatedly say “no one is above the law, no one is above the law” I have heard President Obama repeatedly say “no one is above the law” Just what do our leaders mean when they say this? Are these just words to spit out to pacify Americans ? Sure seems like it.
Why would President Obama stand in the way of accountability and the rule of law by actively opposing a truth commission, special prosecutor and prosecutions for the very serious crimes committed during the last seven years of the Bush administrations?
Where are the Republicans on these very serious issues? They seem to be either complicit or silent.

Welcome Senator Whitehouse.

How can you expect to make any progress with the torture problem when President Obama is so adament about “not criminalizing policy differences?” [Makes me gag when he describes torture as a policy difference.]

Senator Whitehouse, you have many fans in Canada. Welcome to FDL !

Now to lurk and enjoy Marcy’s interview …

I plan to help Chairman Leahy on the floor with the confirmation of Dawn Johnsen. I think it’s a fight we can win directly without other holds. Moreover, because it allows us to discuss the misdeeds at OLC, the torture memos, the OPR report – if it’s out by then – I think it’s a good fight to have.

Welcome Senator Whitehouse and thank you for spending time with us this morning.

Senator Kennedy has dedicated a lifetime to getting this done, and now we have the opportunity. I am honored to have recently been posted to the HELP Committee, and I am committed to health care reform that includes universal coverage.

Seconded.

It’s a huge relief that you think highly of Holder. Thanks for being here.

Senator Whitehouse,

Oxdown Gazette commenter Jim White

proposed the idea

of putting a hold on the nomination of General Stanley McChrystal for the Afghanistan command until the nomination of Dawn Johnsen as head of the OLC is confirmed.

It would bring the rule of law and issues of proper treatment of prisoners into sharp relief, given that there is some record that General McChrystal had policies previously to hide people from the ICRC, and given that, by contrast, Dawn Johnsen at OLC would insure that the administration was guided on the interpretation of law by someone who has the highest respect for the law.

Would you be willing to put such a hold on the general’s nomination?

Senator Whitehouse,

I’d love to hear what you have to say about the SSCI inquiry–as much as you can share. It’s clear that the Committee has been meeting in closed session many many times these past months. Are those related to the interrogation inquiry?

And is the committee working through the treatment of each detainee? Is Ibn Sheikh al-Libi among those you’re reviewing? And how has his reported death affected that review? This is of particular concern, of course, since the Bush Administration had notice that he was giving unreliable intelligence even BEFORE the Administration approved waterboarding with Abu Zubaydah.

I applaud that sentiment, but do you support Single Payer or private industry, universal coverage?

Welcome Senator Whitehouse, good to have you here and thank you for all the important work you’re doing. I talk to bloggers and others who despair about what is happening on the torture front and if it wasn’t for your efforts I think many would give up hope. The past few days have been particularly bad on a variety of fronts.

I’ll second Marcy’s question about the calendar — the “wait out the clock” strategy seems to be working well for everyone who doesn’t want to revisit our ignoble past.

It should be a slam dunk in a nation of laws that everyone, even those who hold high office, are obliged to follow the law. This is a decision that should be made by prosecutors based on the evidence and the law, and I think it’s very unfortunate that there have been so many misguided calls for prosecutors not to do their work in making this decision, particularly when so many of those calls prejudge the facts, or in some case have them dead wrong.

And from John Lopresti:

To Senator Sheldon Whitehouse:
What has become of the chart you presented concerning the US attorney politically based purges in the prior administration: i.e., have the current attorney general and president restored a more separate relationship between DoJ and EOP.

To Senator Sheldon Whitehouse:
If you think we can avoid the pitfalls of our taking scandal at “war’s” “atrocities”, or even post”war” tribunal reprisals prosecuted to obtain some national or ethnic sense of catharsis, in the present context of ushering the US out of invidiously becoming a longterm supporter of torture during many subsequent presidencies based upon the isolative executive theories advanced during the prior presidency, do you see a congressional path to support ways to overcome that heritage of torture as executive policy unilaterally devised.

I feel the same way.

Every day I pass the shuttered factories, see the empty businesses that are still managing to stay open, and marvel at the lines at the charity give-aways in my my community.

According to the US Census, the town where I live has had the highest unemployment in the country for the last four years (Cities greater than 20 K Residents) and yet the government has only done things to make the situation here worse.

We need a rebuilding of our manufacturing base and reasonable laws governing both the importing of goods and the outsourcing of American Jobs.

I fear that if nothing changes, we will completely lose what is left of the tattered dream of America.

What can we do that we have not already done?

“… universal coverage …”

Why is ’single-payer’ essentially ‘off the table’ for the US?

Why is there no ‘input’ from the public, ‘the people’, evident in the ‘discussion’?

Substantial progress is being made on the torture problem, through the Armed Services Committee reports, through my recent hearing, through the OPR report, and through the ongoing investigation by the Senate Intelligence Committee. As the facts emerge, I think the path will become clear. In the meantime, it’s the Attorney General’s call, and I have confidence in him.

Senator:

Are you familiar with Charles Duelfer’s assertion that Vice-President Cheney wanted to use “enhanced interrogation techniques” on an Iraqi intelligence officer with the intention of “proving” an Al Qaeda – Iraq link?

Do you intend to amplify this charge in hearings?

I think this would undermine the premise that people like Cheney were torturing in good faith, as it were, and would change the public’s perspective on torture; it would outrage and electrify them.

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizens emtywheel and Sen. Whitehouse:

Great catch Sister Marcy and thank you Senator Whitehouse for steppin’ into the crowd of rabble here at FDL. My question for the Senator is simply: When will there be a move to dump One Hung Harry Reid as majority leader and who will lead the effort…and can it be done without the active support of the White House (pun intended)?

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, AND REMEMBER THERE IS NO CO0MPROMISING WITH FASCISM!!

And now one from me again.

You implied that after the OPR report comes out, there will be follow-up hearings, probably held by the full SJC committee.

Does that mean Bybee, Yoo, and Bradbury would be asked to appear, regardless of what the report says?

Would others in the Bush Administration–such as David Addington, who was reported to be closely involved in at least some of those memos–be asked to testify?

The average age of people in the blogosphere tends to be boomers or late boomers, people who grew up watching the Watergate hearings on TV and seeing the executive branch held accountable just like ordinary citizens. I think it defies our sense of justice, internalized at an early age, to watch what is happening now.

Do you think it’s possible for something like that to happen again, Senator Whitehouse, or are we just being nostalgic for accountability no longer possible?

At the moment, the most realistic best prospect seems to be universal private insurance coverage with a public option. Bear in mind that every presidential candidate, including candidate Obama, promised Americans that he would not take away their existing coverage, and they could keep it if they wanted it.

Thank you for all your work, Senator Whitehouse, and for the honor of your visiting us here at FDL.

Can you give us any info on the children of Aafi Siddiqui and KSM?

Yep. Watergate was the model. (Except for the pardon, of course.) How far the U.S. has sunk since then.

Do you believe the PICTURES can be successfully kept from the public?

I don’t, simply because the citizens of this nation have a sacred obligation to know, clearly, what is being done in their names, and, I’m quite certain, that you agree with this truth.

As irritated as I am with many of the abject failings of Judge Mukasey as Attorney General, I have to give him credit here. He rebuilt the firewall between the White House and DOJ very firmly, and this has been continued by the current Attorney General.

Congress’ role in the torture debate at this stage revolves primarily around our oversight role, and I have to commend Chairman Levin on Armed Services, Chairmen Rockefeller and now Feinstein on Intelligence, and Chairman Leahy on Judiciary for their vigorous and unfettered oversight. There is obviously more to come, but I’m very proud of all their efforts to date.

Welcome Senator Whitehouse. I don’t have a question but I would like to express my desire that there be some accountability for Bush Administration torture and detention policies which were clearly illegal and extra Constitutional. Although I am a supporter of President Obama, I would also like to ask you to not allow this president or any president to have a policy of “prolonged detention” without trial or charges. This is very similar to the Bush doctrine of preventative war and is just as illegal under our system of government. Obama didn’t create the problem of Guantanamo Bay but he certainly lobbied hard to inherit it. Now that he has done so, he can hardly expect support to take the easy way out like Bush did. The people held there, at Bagram and in every other facility throughout the world run by the United States, have a right to be treated fairly and within the precepts of the rule of law that so many politicians seem to preach without practicing.
I grew up in the United States of America. I don’t want to die in the Soviet Union.
Thank you for coming here and answering our questions.

What brendanx said…

There was at least the threat of impeachment, though, and from members of Nixon’s own party.

Welcome to Firedoglake, Senator Whitehouse.

How can we return to the rule of law while President Obama is expressing his support for preventive detention? We’ve been holding people for years without charging them. Now, he says, we won’t be able to charge and prosecute some of them, but we’ll have to continue to imprison them for the public’s safety. How does this comport with the rule of law?

Senator, there are many here who echo Norske’s sentiments, hoping that you will step up and help fill the leadership vacuum in the Senate.

Thank you for your efforts, Senator Whitehouse. The hearing last week was excellent. Soufan is a strong voice for the truth. Still, I am very discouraged that we may remain a nation that allows torture without sanction even once all of these invesitagations are done.

Things really appear to be in a holding pattern right now. Unfortunately we have seen that even Congressional Investigations can be sidelined.

I have no question to ask that is fair. God Speed.

Thank you ,Senator.
1. Re health care. Single payer is the only option that makes sense and ought to be the goal.
2. The government has a duty to investigate and prosecute crimminal charges such as war crimes. Duty is not subject to political calculation, it is yours to do and die if need be. That is what we ask of our servicemen, do you owe less? (Not personal, meant as a call to action for your fellow politicians)
3. The power of the multinational corporations must be brought under control. If I were king for a day, direct public financing of electoral campaigns is the highest leverage change that could be made.

It is indeed an honor to have the Senator recognize the FDL swamp…Senator Whitehouse gives me, as a vet, hope that the blood and tears spilled in the last 45 years of corporate wars will not be in vain.

As a Levin constituent, I have to say I’m very proud of the work the SASC did on DOD interrogation. I hope Senator Feinstein can come up with something similarly thorough on the CIA’s involvement in abuse.

There are a whole array of ways in which we can support American manufacturing, and it is vitally important that we do. Most of them fall under the rubric of Fair Trade — we have under the flag of free trade allowed foreign countries and domestic corporate interests who don’t care whether their profits come from foreign or domestic jobs to enjoy unfair advantage to foreign versus domestic production. Unfortunately, many efforts to level the playing field are greeted with premature and misguided shrieks about protectionism.

Few is congress today can live up to those standards, and no Rs.

I just want to offer thanks to you for stopping by.

It goes without saying you have a full schedule, and to take a few moments out for us is most appreciated.

I also want to thank you for being a pit bull on the notion of accountability re: the previous administration.

Here’s hoping others in Congress will come around on this issue.

Agreed.

So good to have you here, Sen. Whitehouse.

I certainly hope we can pursue successfully accountability for the past, including investigations and prosecutions of those who planned, ordered, and implemented torture and other war crimes.

But we must have accountability in the present. What good will such prosecutions be if abuse amounting to torture still exists in the field manuals of our armed forces. I’m referring to the Army Field Manual on interrogation, which allows many abusive techniques that were already used at Guantanamo, including isolation, partial sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, manipulation of phobias, allowance for use of drugs, no prohibition on stress positions, and environmental manipulations, etc.

Many of these techniques are reserved for so-called unlawful enemy combatants (or whatever terminology these prisoners are called these days). Physicians for Human Rights, Amnesty International, Center for Constitutional Rights and others have called for an overhaul of the AFM. This is crucial as the current AFM, overseen in its development by Stephen Cambone and Rumsfeld’s SECDEF department, has been proposed as the “gold standard” for all U.S. interrogations going forward.

Can you comment? And will the Senate take an active role in oversight, such that the AFM can be rewritten, and especially its Appendix M rescinded?

Senator Whitehouse

I’m wondering if the CIA IG report from 2004 will ever be made public. I know it’s the subject of various FOIAs. But it seems like parts of it (particularly the 6 pages on the (in)effectiveness of torture would be useful for the public to read.

Any chance Congress could liberate those documents?

To argue by analogy, one can go to court and to a civil standard of proof show that someone is a danger to themselves or others, and obtain a civil commitment restricting their freedom. If we can do this with Americans, it seems logical that we could also do it with foreign terrorists. The question is, what checks and balances should surround the initial determination of danger, and what safeguards should stay with the person through the period of confinement? I look forward to hearing more from the Obama Administration about what schedule of rule of law safeguards they intend to apply, but I think that the example of civil commitment shows that it is not categorically forbidden to restrict someone’s freedom based on a finding of danger.

Senator Whitehouse (I am a big fan, btw)

Thank you for coming and listening. The feelings of helpless and hopelessness are not imaginary: they are real and yet every effort to address these concerns is damned by the media and Republicans.

I appreciate your presence, but I fear that we have crossed the Rubicon and there will never be economic justice in this country again.

Again, thanks for coming.

…so that an educated population knows what was done and how, can show where the tunnels were bored, when the truth was subordinated; what institutions were subverted; how our democracy was compromised; so this grim history is not condemned to repeat itself; so a knowing public in the clarity of day can say, “Never, never, never, again;” so we can keep that light – that light that is at once America’s greatest gift and greatest strength – brightly shining.

I think this speech hits some extremely important topics, not only for the US but for the networked world. An educated population is, IMHO, a different people than an ‘infotained‘ or ‘amused‘ population.

It’s my view that the Senate hearings, if they are to be of real, lasting value, need to focus more on how to structure hearings and relevant materials to help a wide range of citizens learn key topics, and the relationships between them — before, during, and after — for easy use by interested citizens.

Otherwise, we’ll continue to be lost in the swamp of noise and confusion that poses hearings as ‘political payback’, which has brought us to the ghastly situations that we face today. There are so many resources, and so many wonderful Americans who would love a history lesson, but will flee at what looks like one more ‘political food fight’.

My comments, hopes, and questions were left on an earlier Emptywheel thread: “Mark Your Schedules,” should any staff be interested in what some of us left on a previous thread.

Sincere thanks for what you do, Sen. Whitehouse. Greatly appreciated!

And thanks also to EW, eWheelies, Jane, Christy, and the backend folks who make this place so vibrant, honest, and witty.

As a sign of good faith, from the new Congress and the new President, should the United States sign and ratify the International Convention for Protection of all Persons from Enforced Disappearance? We haven’t even signed it yet.

That assertion has been made in several venues, although it is not yet clear that any torture techniques were actually applied to anyone for that purpose. At this stage, it would be way premature to rule that out, however, and it is a significant allegation because if true it takes the conduct outside of whatever legal protections the OLC opinions provide. That in turn, opens a significant door to liability at law.

Is that what Cheney wants released?

Sen. Whitehouse, the quote below is from one of our esteemed commenters, Mary. I simply offer it to you, because I think it reveals Vice-President Cheney’s tunnel vision.

Yeah, right. Not raising it in 260+ waterboardings when we were preparing to send US soliers to war (esp by KSM’s timing), when we were priming the US public for those soldiers to face nuclear and biological attacks, and yet nowhere in those 260+ waterboardings did anyone think, “heh, maybe we should add in some questions about Iraq, since the waterboarding is a *guarantee of truth* we can make sure our info is correct or get more info.

If they really thought they were running an intel collection operation, not asking during 260+ waterboardings is an “interesting” revelation.

All Cheney cared about was tortured confirmation of an al-queda link to Iraq.

I have not seen anything indicating when, where or how Congress was briefed on the FBI withdrawal from the torture interrogations. Can you provide any insight?

Also, the CIA schedule produced seems, despite its other inaccuracies, to “on its face” indicate that the National Security Act was violated in the briefings.

Either the torture program was not a covert program, in which case the whole committees should have been briefed,

or it was a covert program, in which case:

a) there should have been a finding that was shown to the Intel chairs and no one is mentioning being given this (Rep Harman even has a letter indicating that she was not given such a finding) and

b) there should still have been a briefing to the full committees unless the president found extraordinary circumstances for limiting the briefing and in that case, when the committees were finally, years later, briefed they should have been provided with that info.

So – why is no one talking about the clear NSA violations demonstrated and why did George Tenet allow such illegal briefings?

Is the torture program so inextricably tied up in the illegal offshore prisons program that there is no real way to discuss briefing one without the other?
And how do you brief on the program without mentioning that all the FBI agents most well versed on al-Qaeda are going to be excluded from the questioning?

“In the meantime, it’s the Attorney General’s call, and I have confidence in him.”

That’s good to know. Many of us very much hope that Holder stands by his statement from April: “If I see evidence of wrongdoing, I will pursue it to the full extent of the law, and I will do that in an appropriate way.”

I am virtually certain that there will be hearings on the OPR report in Judiciary, most likely at the Chairman/full committee level. It is too early to tell who will be summoned to attend. I would note that Chairman Leahy has already invited Judge Bybee to testify before the committee. He has not accepted the invitation.

Until there are FUNDAMENTAL changes in our economic system, requiring truly reasonable and rational behavior from all, from those too small to matter to those “Too Big to Fail”, money will continue to be ‘all that matters’, and the Social Contract will continue to be torn apart on the alter of greed.

And, Senator, the Political Class has played a very active role in aiding and abetting the deliberate and intentional destruction of our manufacturing base, as I’m certain you well know.

The economic crisis we face (and it is by no means ‘over’ nor will it be, probably for years, if ever) did not happen by accident, neither was it something that “no one could have anticipated”.

I recently read what Doug Feith said in his QFRs to SSCI in 2003. He said his “intelligence shop” was involved in setting policy on:

* DoD response to the presence in Iraq of the al-Qaida affiliated Ansar al-Islam terrorist group.
* DoD response to the presence in Iraq of al-Qaida operative Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his CB W network.
* Helping to formulate requirements for the debriefings of al-Qaida fighters detained at Guantanamo and Bagram.

Given that he did that memo connecting Al Qaeda to Iraq, it makes me wonder what he meant by “formulating requirements for the debriefings” in Gitmo and Bagram.

Show us the finding. Show us that the accused has been given a fair hearing to object to his/her detention. They are still not receiving their habeas rights. If it can happen to them, it can happen to us.

Will he subpoena?

Thank you, Senator Whitehouse, for joining investigative journalist Marcy Wheeler – Winner of the Prestigous Hillman Blogging Award – and FireDogLake today!

Do you believe there is any basis in the Constitution for former President Bush’s claim that Extraordinary Circumstances elevate the Executive Above the Law in the name of National Security?

Thank you, again, for all that you do!

No. At least one of Cheney’s documents appears to be a reaction to the IG report, to try to claim torture was effective even though the IG said it might not be. The IG appears to have concluded that there was no evidence that torture had prevented any attacks. The numbers of time that AZ and KSM were waterboarded also appear in that section, suggesting that the IG thought if you had to do something 183 times, it probably wasn’t effective.

So, it all depends on what Holder is willing to ”see:” that’s what people here at FDL are worried about. It’s all too easy in the current climate to just not see what’s going on in plain sight … especially when it will be viewed as a ”political food fight.” It’s a justice trap.

Senator Whitehouse,

As a member of the SSCI, have you seen all the CIA IG reports on the CIA detention and interrogation (torture) program? Does the IG report to the intel committees every time a criminal referral is made to the DOJ? When the DOJ declines to prosecute, is that reported to the SSCI?

Thanks for your time.

I’m not sure when the CIA IG report might be declassified for release. All of the “declassifiers” are in the Executive Branch of government, and the Senate procedure for declassifying materials is so cumbersome that it has never been used. Not withstanding that institutional difficulty (which I hope to remedy at some point by the way), this issue will clearly be joined with the administration when the Senate Intelligence Committee investigation is completed and we seek the maximum disclosure. It would be helpful if that IG report could be declassified as an appendix to the committee report.

Thank you for being here today, Sen. Whitehouse.

Would you support legislation to define classification requirements (which are now based on an Executive Order)? Do you think that the State Secrets privilege legislation will make it to the President’s desk?

(which I hope to remedy at some point by the way),

Meaning you’d like to make a more effective way for Congress to be able to declassify materials? Can you say more about this?

The courts seem to be chipping away at claims the Executive is the sole determinant of classified status. It’d be nice to see that authority shared between the branches.

senator whitehouse, an unqualified honor.

I really wish the democrats would take your lead and verbally republicans who make the rediculous claim bush/cheney “kept us safe”

more Americans have died through terrorism after 9/11 then before, and those Americans have dies BECAUSE of the depraved policies of that administration

we’ve created more enemies, more terrorists, more terrorist events

for every person tortured their entire family become terrorists, their friends and associates

for every story we loose any person who might have been sympathetic to our cause

and cheney is not “delusional”, he is clearly lying as a pre-emptive attempt to undermine prosecution for his crimes

the man ordered torture to get “data” he knew was false, and we have the actual interogators informing us just that

when you get a chance, please read this page on the deciples of leo strauss, you will be amazed with that read

Sen Whitehouse,

The fact you’re here means you’re aware of Marcy’s talent and body of work. Do you know of any other elected officials availing themselves of her expertise when prepping for the various hearings? Marcy knows exactly what questions to ask.

Wouldn’t she be an invaluable resource to any investigative committee??

BTW, thanks for all YOUR efforts too.

would you give us your take on whether arlen specter will be anti-cloture on all things that come from the judiciary committee with majority support?

money will continue to be ‘all that matters’, and the Social Contract will continue to be torn apart on the alter of greed.

Speaking of “the altar of greed”, the price of gas has risen roughly 60% in 3 months while demand is down sharply and supply is at a 19 year high.

I understand this isn’t a front burner issue for you, but is anything going to be done about the ridiculous levels of speculation allowed in the oil futures markets?

senator, i am a big fan of you senate floor speeches and the work you are doing now on the issue of torture. thank you for the good work you are doing.

my question for you is how do you square comments like this:

A little bright, healthy sunshine and fresh air, so that an educated population knows what was done and how, can show where the tunnels were bored, when the truth was subordinated; what institutions were subverted; how our democracy was compromised; so this grim history is not condemned to repeat itself; so a knowing public in the clarity of day can say, “Never, never, never, again;” so we can keep that light – that light that is at once America’s greatest gift and greatest strength – brightly shining. To do this, I submit, we must look back.

with your support for telco immunity on the issue of fisa violations? those lawsuits were our best chance to find out what happened. don’t you think the same principles of sunshine and an educated population apply in this case? if so are there other avenues for “where we go from here” that you can recommend to us?

i’ve waited until near the end of your scheduled time to ask this question because i don’t want to risk sidetracking the conversation. but to me, these issues are in principle very closely related and i hope you will be willing to respond. thank you.

I am wondering what we know about AG Holder’s view of enforcing Congressional subpoenas. Without some support, as we have seen, these subpoenas are meaningless and provide another means to resist and delay (indefinetely apparently) proper investigation.

Same thing with the underlying problem with oversight. If, as we are seeing, the recordkeeping for official Congressional briefings is unprofessional this becomes another tool for burying lawbreaking.

It’s very discouraging. It’s a maze of brick walls supposedly created as a system of robust checks and balances. Fail.

Just a heads up folks–I know Senator Whitehouse may need to take off shortly–he had 45 minutes available, as I recall.

Unfortunately my time has run out, and I haven’t been able to answer all the questions. But I thank you all for your interest.

On the question of executive authority, I think there is considerable scope for the President in a time of true emergency to take necessary steps in response to that emergency where there is not time for the ordinary procedures of government to proceed. The error of the Bush Administration (among many) was to overdraw the state of emergency and to assert that the emergency powers of the President were not time limited in that way. I believe that even in times of significant national peril, where the exigencies of time permit Constitutional process of government to be followed, they must be. I believe President Obama understands this principle correctly.

Thank you again everyone!

I would also like the senator to comment on the fact that those involved in cheney’s program actually told us he was informed there was no saddam al-qaeda link and he insisted they come up with information indicating otherwise, and insisted they torture to get that false information

Thanks to EW and FDL for inviting Sen. Whitehouse, and thanks to the Sen for joining the discussion.

I learned more in twenty minutes reading here than two weeks watching the talking heads and Sunday shows.

We need more of these kinds of forums to help sort out the sound bites from the serious answers.

Also, just want to add my voice to the running theme that seems to prevail in that We (The People) want Justice to be served, not special interests. Justice should be no respecter of persons, and it seems to us that there’s a private club in DC protecting itself and it’s members to the detriment of the public as a whole.

All that political kabuki does is defer from the real issues, and forums such as this one give us a chance to really get down to the nuts and bolts that our MSM has abandoned any coverage of, preferring those catchy, emotion-laden soundbites over real substance.

Again, thanks to Marcy, FDL and their whole crew for providing us direct contact with some of the real movers and shakers like Sen. Whitehouse. It is unique in this day and age. Where else can you say the same?

Cheney wants to publish a document HE wrote (or had witten) under the cover of a CIA imprimature. If his gambit is not exposed we will continue to be subjected to his obstinate lies and sneers.

Thank you, Senator, for spending time with us. I hope you might visit with us again, soon.

DW

Again there are volumes spoken by silence.

Not exactly a question and not exactly something that can be adequately addressed in a post or comment, but I would very much hope that in addition to, on a parallel plane perhaps, to the truth commission track that you and Sen Leahy have been trying to pursue, that there will be an investigation of the numerous obstructions of Congress and of the courts that have been generated by the illegal (but apparently blessed with non-prosecution) torture and wiretap programs.

It’s one thing to use bad legal reasoning – it is quite a different to use a secret OLC process within the Executive branch to not only create secret law that Congress is not advised exists (and so can not respond with real law) but to also create a process where the secret law generated is insulated from judicial review and interpretation.

There have been a boatload of lawyers involved at DOJ and elsewhere in the Executive who have known about numerous cases, whether they were Abu Ghraib court martial proceedings or civilian criminal cases or civilian civil proceedings like FOIA proceedings, and who have known of Congressional demands and requests, and who have either sat back while other lawyers lied to the Courts and Congress or assisted in those lies and the destruction of evidence.

That’s not an issue of poor legal reasoning – it is very clear cut on both professional standards and obstruction fronts. From the time of Gonzales’ Jan, 2002 memo, where he indicated the likelihood that future administrations might pursue War Crimes Act charges, there should have been preservation notices and orders all over the place. Definitely from the time of the various cases before Hellerstein, Brinkeman, Roberston … um, basically all of the DC and ED VA and SD NY benches.

And instead – nada.

The only act of minimal candor to the tribunals I have seen was Levin’s testimony, where he did make sure that he corrected the record on “three instances” of waterboarding. And he did it in a way that shows you can have candor and refuse to participate in lies to the tribunals without giving up classified information.

But why anyone would agree that crimes can be classified is still beyond me.

Anyway – don’t let the obstruction issues and failure to preserve etc. which are, imo, far more clear cut than even the hugely clearcut issues on the opinions themselves, go by the bye.

Thanks again for joining us, Senator Whitehouse.

Have a nice recess and keep up these efforts for accountability.

Many volumes, acquarius74, many volumes.

*he’s gone*

Chin-ee is engaging in a public trial of the last admin. – exactly what they strived to avoid for 8 years.

He is playing right into the hands of those who want to see convictions and sentencing handed out to BushCo.

Welcome, Senator Whitehouse! You are my hero – watching you on C-Span apply logic and determination to a problem is awesome.

Senator,
I thank you so much for your efforts thus far to work for accountability for what we see as crimes committed by the last administration. I do hope that the Senate will pursue all avenues given to them to hold the scoundrels accountable.

There remain a number of US Attorneys appointed by the previous administration that have yet to be replaced, many of them “loyal Bushies” including Mary Beth Buchanan in Pittsburgh. Have you any information as to when we can expect them to be replaced? And where are we in the course of continuing to pursue the illegal firings of previous USAs?

Also, now that you are on HELP is there any assurance that we really will be offered a public option for health care? Without it we are doomed to more of the same.

Thanks and blessings.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Thank you Senator Whitehouse!

Thanks for stopping by Senator Whitehouse.

Big fan, especially when you use charts.
DOJ/EOP communications chart knocked me off the sofa.
Don’t worry, I’m healing. :)

Welcome Senator, and thank you for your work.

Part of assessing the damage to our democracy and our commons will fall to my colleagues and I as we move to protect the public from the medical torturers among us – by revoking their licenses.

Full disclosure of the names of all the physicians present during (or in any other way facilitating) torture in any DOD or CIA (or other) setting will be required soo the public and the profession can identify and exclude the torture docs.

Have you had the opportunity to consider how these disclosures may be compelled through Federal legislation?

[oops - too late. In any event, thanks for having been here, Senator!]

Oh yeah, Bush and Cheney kept America safe …

IF you don’t count 9/11 and the anthrax attacks, among other things.

Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you for coming here. Are you surprised that President Obama is now supporting some form of military trials in Guantanamo? I was very surprised. I agree more with Joe Margulies, Guantanamo attorney, who wrote, “Law is security; lawlessness invites terror.” I’m surprised that the president doesn’t seem to stand on the bedrock belief in our own justice system, but instead supports an extra-constitutional invention of the Bush administration.

“Because we represent Zubaydah, some people will likely discount whatever we say. But do not misunderstand; this is not a plea for pity. Whether people approve or disapprove of what has happened to Zubaydah, that’s a separate question. The American system of justice is founded on the idea that truth emerges from vigorous and informed debate. And if that debate cannot take place, if we cannot learn the facts and share them with others, the truth is only what the administration reports it to be. We hope it has not come to that.”

Joseph Margulies is assistant director of the MacArthur Justice Center at Northwestern University Law School. George Brent Mickum is an attorney in Washington, D.C.

Yes, and combined with the EW “Ghorbanifar Timeline”, Feith’s conduct really raises a host of ominous questions.

during an appearance on the diane rehm show on june 28, 2006,
http://wamu.org/programs/dr/06/06/28.php
former assistant secretary of defense for health affairs, william windenwerder, said some things that i have never heard mentioned since.

i am wondering if the medical personnel information has been included in the torture documentation discussions. the number of sites, the memos, and the survey that was conducted in summer of 2004.

he said that in 2002-3 there were existing documents, regulations, geneva conventions to follow…then in june 2005 created they new ones–they needed new ‘policy guidelines’ to ‘build upon’ for the 1,100 medical personnel serving in 180 medical unit locations.

(i would like to see that ‘180′ number matched to ‘known’ military and detainee locations. it doesn’t. where were the others located? what country?)

then again in may 2006, more clarification was sent out–a more comprehensive ‘medical support for detainee operations’..

in the summer of 2004, a survey was done through the army surgeon general’s office, by request of winkenwerder, questions pertaining to ‘did they observe or participate in abuse and did they report it?’to all military medical personnel…sworn statements were taken but the report was never released.

the new guidelines came out after that.

thank you Emptywheel, thank you Jane Hamsher
mwah!

Thank you for coming Senator.

Great question, Kirk and thanks for all that you and your colleagues are doing to stop medical professionals from being party to these transgressions.

Seconded!

Thirded ! Can ah get an Amen !

…the Senate procedure for declassifying materials is so cumbersome that it has never been used.

It’s difficult to see how Congress can hope to conduct good oversight without fixing this problem.

It’s helpful to see you point this out; I think many of us probably are unaware of this snafu, but it explains why Congress seems to be hamstrung so often. All the more reason to appreciate your persistence and commitment.

Thank you, DWBartoo. I have only tears left with which to speak.

Kirk @ 104: This is very encouraging. Thank you. As a patient I cannot see how we can maintain trust in a medical/psychiatrict/psychological complex that has fought so hard to endorse participation in crimes like these. If I had any trust left, this would have finished it off. You are pursueing a very important piece of this disaster.

Thank you, Senator Whitehouse, for your time, service and great reply!

Thank you, Marcy and Jane!

A river, an ocean … of tears …

Brilliant. Thank you Marcy, Jane, and Christy and all you firepups.

There are a whole array of ways in which we can support American manufacturing, and it is vitally important that we do.

near the top of the list should be single payer health care. employer-based health insurance is an unnecessary burden to our manufacturing industries.

All that political kabuki does is defer from the real issues, and forums such as this one give us a chance to really get down to the nuts and bolts that our MSM has abandoned any coverage of, preferring those catchy, emotion-laden soundbites over real substance.

Amen!

impotent tears for all the over 700 child detainees in these insane, unjustified wars, including those disappeared children of Dr. Aafi Siddiqui and KSM. Big, tough America; terrified of children, torturers of children.

(((((scout)))))

What do you see as a solution to the problem of using the olc to write shake and bake laws designed to give cover to the executive for policy that is clearly unconstitutional?

Thank you, Boo…the hugs help.
scout

Jeff Kaye and Kirk Murphy if you’re still here, what do you make of Senator Whitehouse’s view of preventive detention @59? Some extended version of a 5150, as it’s called in California? What differentiates that from the Chinese use of psychiatric facilities as prisons by committing political prisoners? It doesn’t feel very good.

With 440,000 shares of Halliburton stock options of moribund value
in February 2001, VP Cheney convened an Energy Taskforce and mapped oilfield development of Iraq in maps whose authenticity has never been questioned.
Seven months later, the attacks on 9/11 provided impetus for military action via skewed intel and admitted lies about Iraq’s WMD and Iraq-alQaeda collusion. According to former-Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill and many others, the Bush administration had openly planned the Iraq occupation long before they were in office.
1.) Was the motive for all this simply the enrichment of Cheney’s stock options?
2.) Was the OVP simply the means for personal gain?
3.) Were the attacks on 9/11 the opportunity to enrich himself through an abuse of power unlike anything the world has ever witnessed?

I would appreciate your answers to these questions – and, if you concur, one more:
4.) What do you think ought to be done about it?

Thank you, NorskeFlamethrower. I waited to answer you in hopes that the senator would respond to my question….didn’t happen.

Thank you for your service in that prior secret CIA war, and for your comments here at FDL. I’m currently reading some very enlightening books about just how the Vietnam war came about. We need to get rid of the clandestine arm of the CIA.

hey kirk, i’ve been pursuing an angle of that…..see my 108 and listen to that show..i know, dial-up, so listen to it at work.

also had dr. steven miles, author of
Oath Betrayed: Torture, Medical Complicity, and the War on Terror

you probably already know about him.

boomers and late-boomers also got iran-contra, so it’s a wash, and one reason we (me) feel alarmed. i have faith and confidence in you, sen. whitehouse, and very much appreciate your presence here today. there must be no way this time for high crimes to slip the noose, figuratively.

If I (late to the party as usual) may be allowed to jump in, I’d say that that was an incredibly weak, specious reply.

The implication that any opposition to U.S. policy connotes a mental aberration is fatuous. By extension, nearly the entire populations of many Middle Eastern countries, possibly including Israel, definitely North Korea, and the hard-line faction in Iran could all be lined up at the doors of our limited mental health facilities.

I’d venture a guess that Sen. Whitehouse isn’t offering up facilities in the State of Maine to that purpose.

Weak tea indeed. Though perhaps we should offer him a mulligan on that one.

We have yet to ‘find’ an American politician who might be termed a ’stiff belt’, (Kucinich? Any others, even as ‘possibilities’?) weak tea and milquetoast appear to constitute the ‘menu’ …

Perhaps they all have ‘false’ teeth (or ‘false’ tongues), or worse, are miserable ‘gummers’?

;~(

Well stated.

Thank you.

Senator, If there is no special prosecutor, and no truth commission with a mandate to refer cases for prosecutions, do you see any indication that DOJ has any interest whatsoever in opening investigations into torture?

Oh, man, I wish I had known in time to be here. Still, it’s interesting reading.

jayt – thanks for mentioning that. I was a bit concerned when I read that, too. The subject was one raised on another thread this a.m., and it’s clear that many citizens have a skewed view of how/when one who may be contemplating commission of a FUTURE crime should be treated.

state of Maine Rhode Island

Sen. Whitehouse is a true gem in the Senate, especially on Judiciary. One of the high points of working on the campaigns last fall was an opportunity to tell him that in person.

Even though he may not have answered every question, he read what is on our collective mind and I am confident he will weave much of that into what happens next.

Hear, hear! I count myself in that number.