Thanks, Tula! I make every effort to Buy America every day…but sometimes it’s really tough to do. Have you noticed that items in the grocery store no longer say “Made in America”? Instead, it’s “Distributed by….”

Part of the Buy America effort has to be all of us taking a closer look at where what we buy is coming from…even down to the toothpaste.

no. i won’t.

i will not succumb to my fears and resort to economic nationalism.

i stand with workers. i stand with the rights of workers. all workers.

i stand against the concept of the gated community.

let’s buy union. let’s buy fair trade. but this? no. this is profoundly wrong.

I’m going to say this at the risk of being polemical. I want to buy into this pledge, but I really don’t think I can.

American companies need fundamental reform – beginning with corporate governance and management – to be able to survive… imposing the de facto subsidy of a “buy American” scheme harms the ability to reform. Without comprehensive compensation reform, reform of the way R&D, new product developmnt and innovation occurs (and is regulated), introduction of a uniform CSR (corporate social responsibility) reporting system, and restructuring of supply chains for greater accountability, fundamental reform to the way outsourcing occurs and is regulated, capital markets reform to break the back of the LBO firms and other leverage vultures that plague American manufacturers, etc, etc., this type of pledge does more harm than good.

Right now, as it is, there are any number of foreign brand names for more component sourcing in the US (and more value-added) than comparable US brand names. And, frankly, I’d much rather buy from a publicly-traded, effectively regulated German or Japanese or Korean company with significant American source component manufacturing than buy products for an American manufacturer that outsources virtually evrything to foreign entities, and is being bled dry, raped and terrorized by its pirate-owners at KKR, Apollo or Citicorp Venture Capital.

A “buy American” campaign, without these other changes, only validates this type of rife corporate corruption and, moreover, subsidizes the death of American competitiveness and innovation. Until that reform happens, I’ll “buy American” only after doing my homework about which American entity owns the company, how the company is managed, how its supply chain works, and who my purchase really benefits.

Sorry.

blub, I think I can address your concerns, over all I think this is great stuff and a “fair” start, but it’s only a start

I personally prefer a “buy living wage products” rather then buy america

this way no country could blame us for “protectionisms” and if they wanted our market they would have to progress their labor force

al franken has a great idea, something along the lines, “if the country does not provide for collective bargaining we need to tariff the product that comenserate differance”

that’s a paraphrase

I would like to change that a lttle bit, I don’t think we need to tariff a particular country, just the product no matter which country it came from if the product is produced without both collective bargaining and a living wage

selise, see my number 4 and tell me what you think, I am hoping I came up with a fair solution to your concerns (and mine) and my fetish for protecting local economy

i think something along the lines of what you suggest should be part of a comprehensive reform. but only a part (i think blub makes some good points too about corporate governance).

we have very serious economic problems and labor in this country (and elsewhere) is getting the shaft. but that doesn’t mean all “solutions” are appropriate to the problem.

a progressive approach is one that is concerned with local economies everywhere – including our own – and is not limited to our own.

I have been known to call the local wingers “Chi com symps” for their love of Wal Mart at the local paper website.
They freak out and gnash their teeth, but what they don’t do is ever have a good explanation for why their love of Chinese products and the dictators they support are good for America.

I don’t like the tarrifing bit. This program should be voluntary.. although I like the idea. My problem is that this program as you propose it will be used as an excuse for nationalistic protectionism and beggar-thy-neighbor trade policies. At this stage in our countries development (namely the abject failure of American large-corporate capitalism), we need to focus on ourselves, not attempt to reform the rest of the world. The focus has to be on empowering American industry with, yes, I’ll say the bad word, industrial policy, regardless of what our trading partners and CEOs say, not on punishing other people for failing to do what we so abjectly fail to do ourselves.

So.. I’d rather say: buy local where possible. Figure out who the local family and employee and genuinely publicly taded manufacturers.. make sure they’re not beholden to private equity and LBO rapists, and patronize them. Buy locally brewed beer. Buy furniture made in your community or city. Eat at locally owned restaurants. Buy from retailers that tend to source locally. Buy locally produced food. Buy local building supplies, etc.

And lobby for the Obama administrative to pack affirmative, not punative, policies – public support of innovation and R&D, public support of economic development initiatives, infrastructure and energy subsidies for business, comprehensive financial system reform (!!!!), regulation of LBOs firms and greenmailers and other vultures and rapists (including tax code reform), executive compensation reform, employee free-choice, corporate social responsibility legislation, etc. That’s what we need. Not “buy American” when “buy American” just means buy from American criminals, crooks and rapists who get their financial advice in Hong Kong, do most of their component sourcing in Bangalore, run their accounts out of Dubai, send their kids to school in Switzerland, and keep their ill-gotten money in the Caymans. Buy foreign before buying Madoff or buying Pandit.

I can’t say categorically I will always buy American-made. Not possible any more, for one thing. But I make every effort to spend my money locally, or as locally as I can, and pay attention to things like carbon footprint. Thus, the slightly more expensive produce from my region is preferred over the “bargain” from the other side of the country, or the out-of-season specialty fruits from several continents away.

When I bought a car last year, it was a Prius. Most of it was made in Alabama and/or Kentucky, albeit by non-union labor. But at the time, there was no indication that Detroit was ever going to wake up enough and retool for fuel-efficient vehicles, although the last 35 years should have been warning time enough.

Had Detroit given any sign that it was considering producing cars that would get better gas mileage than a Model T, I would happily have bought American and union-made.

So, like others here, I hold that U.S. corporations need to do some very serious self-reform. And putting some of our productive capacity into rebuilding mass transit would be a good start. Meanwhile, I will eat and spend locally.

Thank you Selise. The current world crisis will not be solved by countries, especially big ones like the USA, slinking inside their shell and letting the rest of us go to Hell in a handcart.

Sure we in Europe are not blameless, but no-one who has spent their working life trying to do business with the USA especially selling into the USA could buy this poor unfairly treated USA bit.

Now rebalancing the disparity between real workers and the money men, that’s different.

I try to buy American every way I can ~ I am low income so buying a new domestic car will be out of the question, but I AM driving an old Corsica, if that is any help :/ . I am from the 1970’s when “Buy American” meant you supported your workers. It doesn’t seem “protectionist” to me to support your neighbors who are struggling to keep their jobs, which will benefit their communities when they spend most of their dollars there. CEOs are raking in the dough on low wage workers both here and in other countries and until they pay a fair wage for a fair day’s work, they really don’t deserve to get any more perks IMO. I do like the idea of “buying fair trade and union” too but I also think that we should tariff anything coming into this country, whether union or not ~ like almost all other countries do with our stuff, including China.

I am from a WOBBLY family and believe with all my heart in worker’s rights.
Cat In Seattle

a progressive approach is one that is concerned with local economies everywhere – including our own – and is not limited to our own.

I personally agree with that, I believe all local economies have to protect themselves

by “themselves” I do NOT mean the profiteers, I mean the laborers

I am in favor of protecting labor not profit, you protect labor and everyone goes home with a fair profit by rote

for folks who don’t know me… i want to make a point i’ve made before by trying to answer, at least in part, tula’s question:

One of the hardest connections for those of us in the union movement to make with our progressive allies has been in the area of trade and policies that encourage U.S. consumers to Buy American Made. Especially Buy America.

Why is that so?

my vacation in 2003 was spent in miami for the ftaa protests (and i apologize for not being present at earlier anti-corp globalization protests). i was happy to get tear gassed and pepper sprayed in support of organized labor which, along with others, must imo have a seat at the table when it comes to trade negotiations.

my objections to “buy american” come from the very same sense of justice that sent me to miami.

Now rebalancing the disparity between real workers and the money men, that’s different.

amen!

i should probably add that i am particularly concerned for workers in small, poor, developing countries. especially in south and central america (which i’m a little more familiar with), what we (the usa) have done via our economic policies to the people there is just unconscionable (whether intended or not). and imo the actions we take now and the policies we advocate must take that history into account.

You can’t buy American-made electronics anymore. Even if it is American-designed & American-built (rare), the internal components, especially the passive parts, are all Asian-made. All the US passive component makers are long gone… True, we still have IC fabs over here but for a very long time the packaging has been done in Asia plus we have given them our fab technology including the bleeding-edge stuff.

I don’t like the tarrifing bit. This program should be voluntary

blub, you must regulate business into doing the right thing, they will NEVER do anything against their bottom line without regulation and when I say “bottom line” I mean this quater, they don’t look to next year, it’s “what can we show now”

the tariff is really the only method I see for applying the principles as thus;

an industry is not paying it’s bills when its labor force can’t put healthy food on the table, educate their kids through college, take vacation, retire in comfort and fix the ills when someone falls to disease

companies do their best deferring those costs, regulations are needed to force them into paying their own bills

single payer health care would be a big step forward for labor in the usa.

let’s do that one.

‘He read in a newspaper about a $100 million wind farm to be built near his daughter’s house in Arizona. The 30 wind turbines are to be manufactured by a company from India and the huge towers are to be constructed in Mexico. Vest wants to know why GE can’t make those turbines.”

I think that this is the major problem. There aren’t American made products that suit the needs for most of us, and the nations needs. This has been the result of decades of the governments failing to craft policy and direct support and pressures to US corporations to fill these niches domestically. Europe framed their economies and their businesses toward their future economies. That’s not “protectionism”.

I buy local whenever possible, but I also avoid certain US based corporations BECAUSE of their labor policies, marketting practices and use of profits to support extremist politicians. Then again, I don’t “buy” very much. I don’t have a car, don’t have a big wardrobe need. My main expenses are food, rent and books.

True, Apple still manufactures a lot of stuff domestically…as does HP…but most of the parts are produced abroad, as is much of the subcomponents.

I buy local whenever possible, but I also avoid certain US based corporations BECAUSE of their labor policies, marketting practices and use of profits to support extremist politicians.

excellant stuff there

…taking the American Auto Revivial Pledge.”

How about not buying a “next” car unless it is absolutely necessary.

My first car lasted almost 18 years. My current car will hopefully last as long.

I really don’t want to support the American companies that manufacture the behemoths that clog our roads.

Considering that America’s manufacturing base has been essentially ‘offshored’ or, more honestly, destroyed, just how much is made in America these days?

Question: Where does the steel to be used in these American automobiles come from? (Living in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I speak often with skilled people whose skills and knowledge are no longer appreciated, so I’m somewhat curious.)

Who makes shoes or clothing in America?

Who will convince the retailers (who must be a part of the ’solution’) to ‘buy American’, so that they may, in turn, sell American made goods to American consumers?

Where is the support from Wall Street for this?

Or from the Political Cla$$, who aided and abetted the dismantlement of our manufacturing base?

Shouldn’t we begin by insisting that people have decent-paying and appreciated jobs which would allow them to buy the goods they make? (A classic cart before the horse analogy, or, in this case, car before the person, ’situation’ appears to be developing, unless there is enough non-manufacturing ‘money’ and ‘good will’ afoot in our nation hungering for American automobiles to make up the difference, all the bootstraps in the best of intentions won’t pull this chestnut out of the fire … how is that for a mix of metaphor, homily and blithering nonsense? ;~D)

The horses are already (long since) gone from the barn, and merely buying American cars is not enough, it is not even an honest beginning …do Fiats to be made by Chrysler ‘qualify? Or Toyotas made stateside? If not, then what of the foreign ‘entanglements’ of most ‘domestic’ auto companies?

Franky, buying American autos must be part of a larger package that looks at the reality on the ground, and it is not a pretty sight, simply exhorting people to buy American, when there is damned little ‘American’ to buy, and there are many who have not the means of doing so anyway, is a trifle disingenuous.

Unless there is a fundamental ‘change’ in our economic system, and serious policies reflecting that change, ‘buying American’ is simply feel-good sloganeering and superficial nonsense.

The problem is systemic and nothing will (or can) ‘change’ until that fact is recognized and acted upon.

We need to do more than appeal to what amounts to emotion, we need to insist upon reasonable and rational economic behaviors from everyone, from those too small to matter, to the godlike titans, those magnificent, shining and exceptional beings who are Too Big to Fail.

DW

actually.. that’s not precisely true. The commodity components all come from abroad, true, but there are still American manufactured and assembled home electronics… even if half the supply chain is right across the border in Northern Mexico. San Diegans know that well ;P I still consider that local, for me, by the way… it benefits workers here.

my strong belief is that you will find that more things are still made in th USA than one might think. There is viable local manufacturing for a broad array of goods, in most cities, from solar panals, to home improvement supplies, to processed food products, to capital goods. Just a question of seeking it out.. even in our current state of stagnation and retrogression, we are still the world’s largest manufacturer. One just has to look carefully and not buy the shiniest new gadget advertised at your local Wal Mart.

I’m not arguing with you.. but one has learn how to effectively regulate American businesses and the American robber baron thugs who own/pillage them before one should tariffs to dictate to foreign manufacturers how they should behave if they want to compete in the US against the same American robber barons. Unless you make the homegrown thugs go away and reform their companies first, any foreign trad tariff will simply be an effective government subsidy on their corruption.

Remember, in manufacturing, the supply chain is everything here, not the de jure country of origin of the finished product.

I’ve been in the industry for over 36 years & watched the component makers disassemble themselves over that time. Just recently watched Applied Materials send their manufacturing to India & China. Even my previous employer would outsource any substantial manufacturing runs to China, although we used local assembly houses for small production runs. (Even our biggest runs wouldn’t come anywhere close to filling a supply chain like Walmart) I’m all for local production, but if all the parts I’m buying come from Asia already (& the raw materials like the epoxy for my semiconductor’s cases), why not spend a few cents more and import them as assembled products?

I’ve been looking ‘carefully for a long time Blub,. and my experience does not confirm yours.

In fact, I have witnessed many small manufacturers, in New England and the Middle Atlantic region simply disappear.

Just as the so-called ‘economies of scale’ have destroyed small scale agriculture, the same ‘logic’ has severely ‘culled’ small industry.

I am glad you see another picture, but it doesn’t gibe with what I have witnessed for decades.

Perhaps we need an nationwide survey, to get a handle on this?

As well as an assessment of the ‘resources’ available to us, a resource ‘inventory’ if you will.

We need actual ‘evidence’ not speculation or assumption.

Do you disagree with my concerns about a systemic ‘problem’?

I don’t buy much of anything because I don’t need things but I always look to see where it’s made. It’s very difficult to find things made in America and when something is foreign made, how in the world do we know who made it and how much they were paid? We can only do our best.

oh no.. I very much agree that the problem is a systemic one, I just don’t think the erosion of American industry is a terminal one yet. I think industry has relocated within the US.. from Northeastern cities, for example, to the deep south countryside.

I’m not arguing with you.. but one has learn how to effectively regulate American businesses and the American robber baron thugs who own/pillage them before one should tariffs to dictate to foreign manufacturers how they should behave if they want to compete in the US against the same American robber barons.

the tariff correctly applied is the only way I can see that happening

Kinda hard for me to buy Converse under the Pledge. They’re made in Viet Nam. The labour there was cheaper than Taiwan, where the company moved its production to first. My Levis are made in Lesotho. It is possible to buy organic cotton tees made here, though. Much of the produce I buy is grown elsewhere. Most FL oranges are turned into juice so if I buy Valencia oranges they normally come from CA but I’ve seen them from out of country. Most of my “discretionary income” is spent on cat food, books and CDs, all of which are produced here.

Why would this relocation occur?

You mentioned robber barons, what do you suppose ‘prompted’ these ‘moves’?

Social responsibility, or a profit-motivated, quarterly mind-set?

How would you propose we change that, when, after all, corporations are ‘people’ too?

I’m certain you are catching the nature of my concern AND disgust.

The question is, how will this change, how can it change when money is all that matters?

The Divine Right of Money is just as obnoxious and destructive as the Divine Right of Kings.

We may have our little daydreams or even our overarching plans, but the powers-that-be seem little interested.

In fact, I suspect those powers would welcome a new dark age.

Serfs up!

check out articles like this http://www.herald-dispatch.com…..xaggerated

Which are many

By the way, good report on industrial policy/infrastructure and mfg

http://www.peri.umass.edu/file…..nvestments

Sugar. Talk about protectionism. US consumers pay more for sugar than anywhere else. Big Sugar in FL gets huge subsidies from the govt yet we have the most expensive sugar in the world.

The first link is advertising, the second self-serving as well, neither are reporting from any kind of a neutral or independent position. ‘Tis merely ’slick’ and glossy trade-talk and bombast.

I would not put much stock in such ‘research’ as this.

You must do better, if you seek to convince me, Blub.

DW

I’d like to see reforms along the following lines:
- all LBO firms and private equity firms are required to register as corporate raiders, subject to special regulation
- regulated takeover firms should only be allowed to make acquisitions of healthy companies if those acquisitions do not adversely change the target company’s capital structure, defined as Debt service coverage, debt:EBITDA and debt:Cap
- takeover increases in debt capitalization will be only allowed if the new debt is termed out behind the existing capital obligations, with the marginal increase in capitalization applicable only to real capex.
- all takeovers will be subject to CSR review. Material adverse impacts on fixed (and legislated) regulatory CSR criteria will be disallowed; similarly, companies may not be dismantled outside of rigid CSR and other regulatory review, post takedown
- extraordinary gains from takeovers wil be taxed at an extraordinary rate ;-)
- similar rules, but modified for somewhat greater flexibility, would be put in place for acquisitions of distresssed companies
- cash takedowns or stripdowns of acquired companies will be disallowed
- strict caps on management bonuses and payouts attendant with takeovers
- employee right of first refusal in takeover bids
- outright restrictions on employee downsizing, resizing, union renegotiation etc. within certain windows of takeovers

This is all really really radical, but I think we need to start thinking along these lines.

Sweet.

‘Evening, SD, how are the new tigers getting on with the existing pride?

These ideas, I like.

What about community responsibility?

What about democracy in the workplace?

Etc. etc.

CSR would include community responsibility, I’d think.

Whew, am I glad you answered, Blub, ‘cuz I wuz about to put this up.

Tap! Tap! Tap!

Is this thing working?

Suddenly, everybody vanished … but me.

Hmmm, I wonder where this thing was manufactured?

When the aliens arrive, I promise to only buy things manufactured on planet earth.

Do you think we’ll ‘get’ Obama’s ear on these ideas, Blub, or do we have a bit of ‘learning’ yet coming ‘due’, as a society?

Personally, I doubt that any of the Ruling Cla$$e$ have the least ‘interest’ in these notions, since they appear to be concerned onlywith the ‘principle’ involved.

Howdy Tula -

have you seen this ? WH backs off Panama Trade Agreement

Open Left

nope. He’s owned by Wall Street, and I personally think that Wall Street is 2/3rds of our problems with American manufacturing.

I’m sorry, but I operate out of MY self interest. When a U.S. company offers a superior product for a comparable price, it’s in my self-interest to Buy American. But, pray tell, why should I support the GMs and Chryslers of the world when they ship crap and call a car? I won’t even RENT Chrysler products!

Since when ihas shifting money from my pocket to yours by paying a premium to “Buy American” every increased our GDP? A $1,000 in my pocket can be used to buy stuff, or I can squander it on giving it to U.S. corporations that couldn’t give a damn about union workers, or quality, or their customers. I’d rather pay $1,000 less and have more cash on hand for me and my family.

This “Buy American” stuff has a place (e.g., the Defense Department should not be buying foreign-made, because if that country becomes offensive, what do we do for spare parts?). But, in a Consumer Economy, I want to buy the car that’s best for me, and the more competition there is (from all countries), the better it is for all of us.

So. stop the jingoistic and ignorant campaigns to “Buy American,” by making people feel guilty if they don’t. Instead, apply your efforts to American corporations and show them how building a better product makes them more more money (think Toyota, or Nissan, or Honda, versus GM; GM has shot their own foot so many times they’re now up to the knee!).

These kinds of naive campaigns are not good for us, and not good for our economy; they’re perpetrated by those who have a self-interest…any the expense of MY self-interest, and they make absolutely no economic sense.

Check the origins on books and cat food. There were all those pet food recalls a while back, and increasingly books are being printed off-shore. Especially true for big and/or picture books, many of which are printed in China, alas.

It took forty years of selling out the middle class through the tax code and dismantling regulations in exchange for campaign contributions to bring us to this sorry state of affairs – it will undoubtedly take almost that long to make things right and a Buy America campaign will play an integral role in that process.

People will buy according to their own selfish interests, as a commenter above so able demonstrated.

That doesn’t mean we should continue to allow unfettered, rapacious capitalism to decimate our communities and our democracy. Much of the tax code and deregulation has been purchased by those whose selfish interests are more important to them than America.

Yeah, it’s a “free country”, for some – for the rest of us chattel that built this country and the most advanced manufacturing base in the world all we got was this kick in the teeth and a lousy t-shirt made in China by twelve year-olds working fourteen hours days.

Go Buy America!

I agree completely. I buy not just American but also union made whenever I can, but I draw the line at doing so against my own needs and interests. I bought a car a year ago after living abroad for some years, and I ended up with a Prius.

Not only did I end up with a Prius, but I ended up spending about $4K more than I wanted to, because in May of 2008 in the northern 1/2 of Illinois, I could buy the one car that was available or wait somewhere between 3 and 6 months!

I was absolutely furious with the US auto industry for not being up to speed on hybred models, and I place as much responsibility for the failure on the unions as on management. Union workers knew that management was making crappy decisions that put their jobs at risks, and they did nothing about it. But that’s another rant.

Jeezus no. If we cannot sell our goods to America, we all go down, you with us. You cannot cut yourself off from the world. Believe me, if you could, we’d probably let you. The world doesn’t need a nuclear-weapons-armed bully and it already has enough torture states, thanks.