Comments on: NYT’s Bumiller Bangs the Fear Drum — But for Whom? http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/ Firedoglake weblog Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:14:14 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903528 esseff44 Thu, 21 May 2009 21:52:12 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903528 <p>Here’s a link to more details on German POW’s held in the US and abroad. Close to a half million were held in the US in over 500 camps scattered across the country. They were allowed out of the camps to work as laborers in farming, logging and helped keep the economy going.</p> <p><a href="http://www.blog.artlaflamme.com/?p=1120" rel="nofollow">http://www.blog.artlaflamme.com/?p=1120</a></p> <p>There are some interesting points made in this article about current detainees and their status.</p> Here’s a link to more details on German POW’s held in the US and abroad. Close to a half million were held in the US in over 500 camps scattered across the country. They were allowed out of the camps to work as laborers in farming, logging and helped keep the economy going.

http://www.blog.artlaflamme.com/?p=1120

There are some interesting points made in this article about current detainees and their status.

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903522 esseff44 Thu, 21 May 2009 21:40:29 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903522 <p>In England, German POW’s were held in camps and farmers could ask for them to come and help on their farms as laborers. A lot of them were just young farm boys drafted into the German army as with any war.</p> <p>My father told stories of the Germans who were held at Camp Rucker in Alabama. There was quite a bit of contact between them and the local civilian population. He learned a bit of German from them. There was not a lot of fear about their being detained in the community. I never heard of any of them escaping although I am sure some did. It was a completely different attitude from what we are hearing about now.</p> In England, German POW’s were held in camps and farmers could ask for them to come and help on their farms as laborers. A lot of them were just young farm boys drafted into the German army as with any war.

My father told stories of the Germans who were held at Camp Rucker in Alabama. There was quite a bit of contact between them and the local civilian population. He learned a bit of German from them. There was not a lot of fear about their being detained in the community. I never heard of any of them escaping although I am sure some did. It was a completely different attitude from what we are hearing about now.

]]> By: freepatriot http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903516 freepatriot Thu, 21 May 2009 21:26:02 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903516 <p>now elizabeth bumiller wants to walk back the bullshit ???</p> <blockquote><p>Appearing on MSNBC today, Bumiller said “there is some debate about whether you should say ‘returned’ because some of them were perhaps not engaged in terrorism, as we know — some of them are being held there on vague charges.”</p></blockquote> <p>and she just learned this since yesterday ???</p> <p>whoever taught the journalism classes this woman SLEPT THRU must be cringing in shame that his grade is on DITZY’s transcript</p> now elizabeth bumiller wants to walk back the bullshit ???

Appearing on MSNBC today, Bumiller said “there is some debate about whether you should say ‘returned’ because some of them were perhaps not engaged in terrorism, as we know — some of them are being held there on vague charges.”

and she just learned this since yesterday ???

whoever taught the journalism classes this woman SLEPT THRU must be cringing in shame that his grade is on DITZY’s transcript

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903515 esseff44 Thu, 21 May 2009 21:25:38 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903515 <p>Recidivism rates for the domestic prisoners is counting people who have been tried and convicted before being imprisoned and released.</p> <p>None of those Guantanamo detainees had been tried or convicted of anything. The comparisons are irrational and meaningless.</p> <p>The question is how many have been proven to have been terrorists and how do we know for certain they are the same people. We know how often the same names are used and how often mistakes in identity are made. Unless they are doing DNA matching, it would be hard to tell. Look how often mistakes are made on the no-fly list. There are many reasons to be cynical about these reports of released detainees” heading straight back to the battlefield to kill Americans.” We also know the records keeping on the detainees has been a complete mess.</p> Recidivism rates for the domestic prisoners is counting people who have been tried and convicted before being imprisoned and released.

None of those Guantanamo detainees had been tried or convicted of anything. The comparisons are irrational and meaningless.

The question is how many have been proven to have been terrorists and how do we know for certain they are the same people. We know how often the same names are used and how often mistakes in identity are made. Unless they are doing DNA matching, it would be hard to tell. Look how often mistakes are made on the no-fly list. There are many reasons to be cynical about these reports of released detainees” heading straight back to the battlefield to kill Americans.” We also know the records keeping on the detainees has been a complete mess.

]]> By: tejanarusa http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903508 tejanarusa Thu, 21 May 2009 21:13:11 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903508 <p>Ah - just got to your last line.<br /> Yes, Kafkaesque is the best description for all this stuff. Appalling, and amazing apply too.</p> Ah – just got to your last line.
Yes, Kafkaesque is the best description for all this stuff. Appalling, and amazing apply too.

]]> By: tejanarusa http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903505 tejanarusa Thu, 21 May 2009 21:11:58 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903505 <p>And some settled here.</p> <p>Much like the Hessian mercenaries, many, many of whom stayed in America when released from POW camps.<br /> George Washington always emphasized fair, humane treatment of prisoners to his troops. He was the first to express NOT torturing prisoners/enemies as a primary American value.</p> And some settled here.

Much like the Hessian mercenaries, many, many of whom stayed in America when released from POW camps.
George Washington always emphasized fair, humane treatment of prisoners to his troops. He was the first to express NOT torturing prisoners/enemies as a primary American value.

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903503 esseff44 Thu, 21 May 2009 21:09:01 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903503 <p>There is a lot of information made available on those who have had hearings. Here is a list on wikipedia with links to individual detainees. From the details presented at their hearings, you can see how weak the evidence is. For instance, one of the reasons for continued detention for a detainee was that he was wearing a Casio watch when he was captured. Casio watches had been used in making timers for bombs. Therefore, that is considered evidence of his intent to make bombs. I looked up the model of the watch and it was almost exactly like the one I have been wearing for many years because it is cheap and reliable. They are available almost everywhere in the world. Yet, there it was listed as one of the reasons for continued detention. Read some of the reports on the individuals and see what you would think if you were on a panel trying to decide if they should be released or not.</p> <p>Some of them have had two hearings. The first panel decided they should be released. Instead, they were held and reviewed by a second panel. Based on the same evidence, the second panel decided not to release. It all reminds me of Kafka novels.</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Guantanamo_Bay_detainees" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L....._detainees</a></p> There is a lot of information made available on those who have had hearings. Here is a list on wikipedia with links to individual detainees. From the details presented at their hearings, you can see how weak the evidence is. For instance, one of the reasons for continued detention for a detainee was that he was wearing a Casio watch when he was captured. Casio watches had been used in making timers for bombs. Therefore, that is considered evidence of his intent to make bombs. I looked up the model of the watch and it was almost exactly like the one I have been wearing for many years because it is cheap and reliable. They are available almost everywhere in the world. Yet, there it was listed as one of the reasons for continued detention. Read some of the reports on the individuals and see what you would think if you were on a panel trying to decide if they should be released or not.

Some of them have had two hearings. The first panel decided they should be released. Instead, they were held and reviewed by a second panel. Based on the same evidence, the second panel decided not to release. It all reminds me of Kafka novels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L….._detainees

]]> By: Zorba66 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903493 Zorba66 Thu, 21 May 2009 20:55:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903493 <p>Yes, Blub. American-captured German POWs were given adequate food, shelter and medical care, and worked on farms and work gangs. They were even paid for their work (although at a very low rate).</p> Yes, Blub. American-captured German POWs were given adequate food, shelter and medical care, and worked on farms and work gangs. They were even paid for their work (although at a very low rate).

]]> By: earlofhuntingdon http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903490 earlofhuntingdon Thu, 21 May 2009 20:49:08 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903490 <p>Interesting that describing the conduct of the government that imprisoned and abused them is deemed “militant” by the abusing government. </p> <p>Defending themselves and their version of events - First Amendment rights here - has been run through the newspeak shredder. That puts us in the same league as Burma and makes suspect even that claimed, low rate of “recidivism”. The term itself is deceptive until the government successfully and credibly defends its claims that the imprisoned were guilty of a crime. Until then, it’s another form of propaganda.</p> Interesting that describing the conduct of the government that imprisoned and abused them is deemed “militant” by the abusing government.

Defending themselves and their version of events – First Amendment rights here – has been run through the newspeak shredder. That puts us in the same league as Burma and makes suspect even that claimed, low rate of “recidivism”. The term itself is deceptive until the government successfully and credibly defends its claims that the imprisoned were guilty of a crime. Until then, it’s another form of propaganda.

]]> By: freepatriot http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903489 freepatriot Thu, 21 May 2009 20:46:32 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/21/nyts-bumiller-bangs-the-fear-drum-but-for-whom/#comment-1903489 <p>didn’t anybody see glenn beck explain the difference beteween a JOURNALIST and a COMMENTATOR ???</p> <p>journalists check facts, care about the truth, and use logic and common sense to deduce what is accurate and what is false</p> <p>commentators just make shit up. they print repuglitarded talking points verbatim. they have no need for facts or fact checkers, and they do not consult logic or common sense when they use their stenographic skills to serve the repuglitard party</p> <p>so the answer is obvious</p> <p>Elizabeth Bumiller is a COMMENTATOR, not a journalist</p> didn’t anybody see glenn beck explain the difference beteween a JOURNALIST and a COMMENTATOR ???

journalists check facts, care about the truth, and use logic and common sense to deduce what is accurate and what is false

commentators just make shit up. they print repuglitarded talking points verbatim. they have no need for facts or fact checkers, and they do not consult logic or common sense when they use their stenographic skills to serve the repuglitard party

so the answer is obvious

Elizabeth Bumiller is a COMMENTATOR, not a journalist

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