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	<title>Comments on: Wingnut Bloggers KaNT rEEd</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/</link>
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		<title>By: sleon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902626</link>
		<dc:creator>sleon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 10:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902626</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, at the risk of beating a dead horse - and this is in no way a justification for the bank’s or the wing-nut’s behavior - let’s do the math.  In my household we pay our balances every month, but we put most routine expenses (grocery, gas, food, etc.) on the card to the tune of about $1,300/month and I’m guessing that’s low for your average “deadbeat” who probably tends to be in the higher income range (I’m not). Anyway, that’s $15,600/year and 3% of that is $468/year. That’s a pretty significant number compared to an annual fee in the $15-$25 range. Further, your assertion that these amounts are eaten up by overhead is, I believe, mistaken. The process by which the banks cream off their percentage is fully automated; there are no incremental operating costs based on volume of charges.  I think we’ll find that these revenues, after expenses, far outweigh any proceeds from card fees.  Why do it then? Scale if you have 100,000,000 cardholders x $15 that’s $1.5 billion/year. And as a banker would say, “every little bit helps.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, at the risk of beating a dead horse &#8211; and this is in no way a justification for the bank’s or the wing-nut’s behavior &#8211; let’s do the math.  In my household we pay our balances every month, but we put most routine expenses (grocery, gas, food, etc.) on the card to the tune of about $1,300/month and I’m guessing that’s low for your average “deadbeat” who probably tends to be in the higher income range (I’m not). Anyway, that’s $15,600/year and 3% of that is $468/year. That’s a pretty significant number compared to an annual fee in the $15-$25 range. Further, your assertion that these amounts are eaten up by overhead is, I believe, mistaken. The process by which the banks cream off their percentage is fully automated; there are no incremental operating costs based on volume of charges.  I think we’ll find that these revenues, after expenses, far outweigh any proceeds from card fees.  Why do it then? Scale if you have 100,000,000 cardholders x $15 that’s $1.5 billion/year. And as a banker would say, “every little bit helps.”</p>
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		<title>By: PacificCoastRon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902547</link>
		<dc:creator>PacificCoastRon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 06:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902547</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tejanarusa has it exactly correct, the merchant agreement we have to sign has, in it’s 25 pages of fine print, the requirement that there be no differentiation of credit price and cash price.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t even try to read the 200 page book that is the fee structure, I do understand that tiny people like us get to pay way more as a percent of each sale, and since we’re extra crazy in only selling at the wonderful artsy-crafty event out in the woods, and we avoid charges for wireless terminals that communicate instantly with CC headquarters but keypunch it in later on an ancient terminal we got special permission to use, the payments that were taken out of my bank account without notice a month later were like 8% of sales — they do pay nicely, it’s in your account in 48 hours.  If you actually wanted written records of all this, you’d pay like 10 or 20%.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tejanarusa has it exactly correct, the merchant agreement we have to sign has, in it’s 25 pages of fine print, the requirement that there be no differentiation of credit price and cash price.  </p>
<p>I don’t even try to read the 200 page book that is the fee structure, I do understand that tiny people like us get to pay way more as a percent of each sale, and since we’re extra crazy in only selling at the wonderful artsy-crafty event out in the woods, and we avoid charges for wireless terminals that communicate instantly with CC headquarters but keypunch it in later on an ancient terminal we got special permission to use, the payments that were taken out of my bank account without notice a month later were like 8% of sales — they do pay nicely, it’s in your account in 48 hours.  If you actually wanted written records of all this, you’d pay like 10 or 20%.</p>
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		<title>By: alank</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902414</link>
		<dc:creator>alank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 04:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902414</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks very much for your insight tejanarusa.  I think Federal Data is still a major merchant fee processor.  I guess they’re an intermediary between the merchants and banks and get some sort of cut.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks, MsAnnaNOLA, for reminding us of the old ways still ongoing in NO.  Most decent of those merchants to offer the option, still.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much for your insight tejanarusa.  I think Federal Data is still a major merchant fee processor.  I guess they’re an intermediary between the merchants and banks and get some sort of cut.</p>
<p>Thanks, MsAnnaNOLA, for reminding us of the old ways still ongoing in NO.  Most decent of those merchants to offer the option, still.</p>
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		<title>By: tejanarusa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902345</link>
		<dc:creator>tejanarusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 03:32:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902345</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;RE: the substance of the post - I am now able to admit that until Nov., I worked for a credit card company—why couldn’t I say so before?  Because it was a terminating offense to mention either the company name or even the fact that I worked in the “financial services” industry on any blog or internet website.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I never heard the term “deadbeat” for pay-in-full-on-time customers - but they were known as non-profitable.  People who pay late, go overlimit, etc., etc., account for the profits.  In training we were told not to waive too many fees (we had more discretion to waive then than we did by the time I left) because that’s where our raises  came from.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Those “non-profitable” good payers would get irate about being a “best customers” because they never missed a payment etc. - having no idea that, in fact, that did make them undesirable.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’m not sorry, by the way, to be out of that business.  I kept trying to transfer to a less evil-feeling job, but I wasn’t good enough at it to be allowed to get out of it.  For one thing, I waived too many fees, and I spent too much time explaining things until the caller actually understood.&lt;br /&gt;
We also got paid based on our talk time - how long it took us to complete a call.  I never earned much at all, mostly nothing, that way.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I am really glad to see, according to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/your-money/20money.html?_r=1&amp;hp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NYT primer on the new law&lt;/a&gt; that people under 21 can’t get cards in the future without a parent’s permssion.  It is amazing how many students had &lt;strong&gt;no idea&lt;/strong&gt; how credit cards worked, or what effect not paying them would have on their futures.  Financial education in this country is obviously pitiful.  It’s no surprise kids graduate with huge credit card bills.  Thank dog such offers didn’t exist when I was in school - I had no more clue than today’s kids about money or credit.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE: the substance of the post &#8211; I am now able to admit that until Nov., I worked for a credit card company—why couldn’t I say so before?  Because it was a terminating offense to mention either the company name or even the fact that I worked in the “financial services” industry on any blog or internet website.</p>
<p>I never heard the term “deadbeat” for pay-in-full-on-time customers &#8211; but they were known as non-profitable.  People who pay late, go overlimit, etc., etc., account for the profits.  In training we were told not to waive too many fees (we had more discretion to waive then than we did by the time I left) because that’s where our raises  came from.</p>
<p>Those “non-profitable” good payers would get irate about being a “best customers” because they never missed a payment etc. &#8211; having no idea that, in fact, that did make them undesirable.</p>
<p>I’m not sorry, by the way, to be out of that business.  I kept trying to transfer to a less evil-feeling job, but I wasn’t good enough at it to be allowed to get out of it.  For one thing, I waived too many fees, and I spent too much time explaining things until the caller actually understood.<br />
We also got paid based on our talk time &#8211; how long it took us to complete a call.  I never earned much at all, mostly nothing, that way.</p>
<p>I am really glad to see, according to the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/your-money/20money.html?_r=1&amp;hp" rel="nofollow">NYT primer on the new law</a> that people under 21 can’t get cards in the future without a parent’s permssion.  It is amazing how many students had <strong>no idea</strong> how credit cards worked, or what effect not paying them would have on their futures.  Financial education in this country is obviously pitiful.  It’s no surprise kids graduate with huge credit card bills.  Thank dog such offers didn’t exist when I was in school &#8211; I had no more clue than today’s kids about money or credit.</p>
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		<title>By: tejanarusa</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902322</link>
		<dc:creator>tejanarusa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 03:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902322</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I thought that already was illegal.  I stopped seeing it years ago, and understood a law forbidding it had been passed.&lt;br /&gt;
Or it may have just been that the card issuers forbade it in their merchant agreements.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that already was illegal.  I stopped seeing it years ago, and understood a law forbidding it had been passed.<br />
Or it may have just been that the card issuers forbade it in their merchant agreements.</p>
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		<title>By: MsAnnaNOLA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902272</link>
		<dc:creator>MsAnnaNOLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 02:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902272</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I read some congress critter proposed to make it legal for people to give two prices. Cash price and credit price. Some places in NO do this. Some only accept cash. If places offered two prices you would know what you are paying in these fees.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read some congress critter proposed to make it legal for people to give two prices. Cash price and credit price. Some places in NO do this. Some only accept cash. If places offered two prices you would know what you are paying in these fees.</p>
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		<title>By: MsAnnaNOLA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902268</link>
		<dc:creator>MsAnnaNOLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 02:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902268</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Arrest the owners of HellMart. Post haste.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arrest the owners of HellMart. Post haste.</p>
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		<title>By: alank</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902213</link>
		<dc:creator>alank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 00:58:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902213</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;You pay higher prices for the convenience of revolving credit.  The cost to merchants is passed on to the consumer.  Moreover,&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.unfaircreditcardfees.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fight Unfair Credit Card Fees&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The credit card interchange fee is the biggest credit card fee you’ve never heard of. Nearly $2 of every $100 American consumers spend using credit cards goes directly to the credit card industry through the interchange fee.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In 2008 alone, Americans paid over $48 billion in interchange fees, more than twice what was paid in credit card late fees and three times ATM fees. The average American household paid $427 in credit card interchange fees last year. Total interchange fee revenues have tripled since 2001.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But unlike credit card late fees or ATM fees, credit card interchange is set in secret - consumers don’t know they’re paying it through higher retail prices. What’s more, the same reckless, predatory lending practices that led to the sub-prime mortgage meltdown still prevail with credit cards. Fat interchange fees have created a perverse incentive for the big banks to abandon responsible lending practices in favor of maximizing fee income.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You pay higher prices for the convenience of revolving credit.  The cost to merchants is passed on to the consumer.  Moreover,</p>
<blockquote><p><strong><a href="http://www.unfaircreditcardfees.com/" rel="nofollow">Fight Unfair Credit Card Fees</a></strong></p>
<p>The credit card interchange fee is the biggest credit card fee you’ve never heard of. Nearly $2 of every $100 American consumers spend using credit cards goes directly to the credit card industry through the interchange fee.</p>
<p>In 2008 alone, Americans paid over $48 billion in interchange fees, more than twice what was paid in credit card late fees and three times ATM fees. The average American household paid $427 in credit card interchange fees last year. Total interchange fee revenues have tripled since 2001.</p>
<p>But unlike credit card late fees or ATM fees, credit card interchange is set in secret &#8211; consumers don’t know they’re paying it through higher retail prices. What’s more, the same reckless, predatory lending practices that led to the sub-prime mortgage meltdown still prevail with credit cards. Fat interchange fees have created a perverse incentive for the big banks to abandon responsible lending practices in favor of maximizing fee income.</p>
</blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jane Hamsher</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902212</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane Hamsher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 00:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902212</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I appreciate that, but having just researched online credit card fees for my friend’s knitting business, I think the figure is closer to 2.5-3.5%.  After you factor in operating costs, I seriously doubt they’re making money on that, even with the Fed discount rate at .5% (I think it was 2.25% a year ago).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate that, but having just researched online credit card fees for my friend’s knitting business, I think the figure is closer to 2.5-3.5%.  After you factor in operating costs, I seriously doubt they’re making money on that, even with the Fed discount rate at .5% (I think it was 2.25% a year ago).</p>
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		<title>By: TheLurkingMod</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902211</link>
		<dc:creator>TheLurkingMod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 00:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/19/wingnut-bloggers-kant-reed/#comment-1902211</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;TBogg has reptiles on the front page!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/05/18/insane-clown-prince-of-alien-race-of-lizard-people-sues-blogger/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Insane Clown Prince of Alien Race of Lizard People sues blogger&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TBogg has reptiles on the front page!<br /><a href="http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/05/18/insane-clown-prince-of-alien-race-of-lizard-people-sues-blogger/" rel="nofollow">Insane Clown Prince of Alien Race of Lizard People sues blogger</a></p>
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