Thank you for this post masaccio.

If my grandparents had not divorced when my mother was 2, I probably would have been raised Catholic. With all due respect to the practicing Catholics in the crowd, I think I was better off.

And Notre Dame and the Conservative Bishops are not winning that many converts to their cause with their heavy handed ways.

Excellent post.

masaccio, thank you so much for sharing

The media is making more of this story than is really there, because it gives them the opportunity to create the impression that there is “out-there” American opposition to Obama’s policies.

Otherwise, all the media would have to challenge Obama are Newt, Boehner, Rush, and Cheney. And thinking Americans turn off their television machine when these losers appear.

Buncha priests and maybe nuns getting arrested for lying down on the Notre Dame campus to protest the popular President? That’s great teevee.

Oh if this is the worst thing they can protest, it simply doesn’t matter.

I would have thought the football teanm would have done it *G*

Why is it that the for-profit media never mentions how many Catholic bishops didn’t sign the protest letter? Oh yeah!

Your post and Peterr’s remind me of a anomaly that has always struck me.

Those who claim to have the most faith in the power of their teachings, demonstrate the least. If their arguments on abortion, the nature of marriage, etc. are so convincing, why do they require the government to apply them to others? Would not the divine inspiration of their words carry the day?

DING DING DING!

We have a winner!

Over the years I have learned just how good my Catholic education was. I learned a lot about the struggles of the Church in this country, but also about other struggles. The nuns and brothers taught us about the struggles of labor unions and Black people. I was encouraged to read Upton Sinclair and Frank Norris, and they taught us to learn from those examples to generalize about the growth of freedom in this country, so I had an easy time understanding other liberation movements here, and in other countries.

One of the lessons of Vatican II was the movement to liberate the institutional Church from hidebound dogma and ritual that preserved the authority of the Pope and the Bishops. That really resonated with the lessons taught by the old nuns of my childhood, women who would never receive the benefits of the lesson. I love those people today. I am who I am because of them. Especially Sister Mary Alice and Sister Mary Benedict.

Has UND ever been known for wisdom or deep thought? Maybe if it were a Jesuit university, they would have had a better comeback. When I picture ND grads, I have an image of the local Ford dealer about to tee off on the first hole at the Country Club, after a Wed. martini lunch. There is as much a bigotry basis as a church/religion/abortion basis to the protest of Obama at ND.

But aren’t you pre-judging all ND grads here? Isn’t that a form of bigotry? Sure, there are plenty of ND grads who fit your description, but I’d guess there are plenty of grads of lots of other schools who do as well. We don’t all play golf.

Way to insult the host of this thread. Oy!

My grandfathers people came from County Clare. He put a stop to Catholicism in our family in about 1918. Good riddance.

Hey!

OT, but did you see where Ted Sampley died?

Dang, what I said in my last sentence above. What a jerk.

Book Salon upstairs with Dave Neiwert’s The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized The American Right hosted by Digby

Let me translate for you. Your quotation from Jenkin’s letter simply states Church teaching. I have no problem with it. I am against abortion as a personal matter. I do not impose my beliefs on others in this plurlistic society, and thus I am pro-choice.

Here are the parts of the letter you omitted:

“Notre Dame has a long custom of conferring honorary degrees on the President of the United States. It has never been a political statement or an endorsement of policy. It is the University’s expression of respect for the leader of the nation and the Office of the President. In the Catholic tradition, our first allegiance is to God in Christ, yet we are called to respect, participate in, and contribute to the wider society. As St. Peter wrote (I Pt. 2:17), we should honor the leader who upholds the secular order.

At the same time, and born of the same duty, a Catholic university has a special obligation not just to honor the leader but to engage the culture. Carrying out this role of the Catholic university has never been easy or without controversy. When I was an undergraduate at Notre Dame, Fr. Hesburgh spoke of the Catholic university as being both a lighthouse and a crossroads. As a lighthouse, we strive to stand apart and be different, illuminating issues with the moral and spiritual wisdom of the Catholic tradition. Yet, we must also be a crossroads through which pass people of many different perspectives, backgrounds, faiths, and cultures. At this crossroads, we must be a place where people of good will are received with charity, are able to speak, be heard, and engage in responsible and reasoned dialogue.

The President’s visit to Notre Dame can help lead to broader engagement on issues of importance to the country and of deep significance to Catholics. Ultimately, I hope that the conversations and the good will that come from this day will contribute to closer relations between Catholics and public officials who make decisions on matters of human life and human dignity.

There is much to admire and celebrate in the life and work of President Obama. His views and policies on immigration, expanding health care, alleviating poverty, and building peace through diplomacy have a deep resonance with Catholic social teaching. As the first African-American holder of this office, he has accelerated our country’s progress in overcoming the painful legacy of slavery and segregation. He is a remarkable figure in American history, and I look forward to welcoming him to Notre Dame.

As President Obama is our principal speaker, there will no doubt be much attention on your Commencement. Remember, though, that this day is your day. My fervent prayer is that May 17 will be a joyous day for you and your family. You are the ones we celebrate and applaud. Congratulations, and may God bless you.”

I have added the emphasis. By the way, I did not receive a letter from that fool Terry, nor did several ND grads I have checked with here in El Paso. Thank God for small favors.

ND has stood strong and still stands strong against the power grab the late JPII tried to put on Catholic universities with the ill fated Ex Corde scandal. It led the way along with the Jesuits at Boston College and elsewhere.

While you are engaged in the bashing, give credit where credit is due.

Jesus B. Ochoa
El Paso, Texas ND ‘56

Fair enough on the Ex Corde matter. I only mean to say that the failure to insist on the continued vitality of Vatican II in the face of the power grabs of John Paul II, led by Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict, and the failure to stand up for Liberation Theology and a host of other capitulations, are too much for me.

Per an oped by Patrick Reilly, founder of the Cardinal Newman Society, in today’s LA Times:

U.S. bishops approved a policy in 2004 stating: “The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions.”

That policy is at the heart of the Notre Dame controversy. The university claims its honor does not suggest support for the president’s policies on abortion and embryonic stem cell research, but scores of bishops and the thousands who have signed the petition clearly disagree. For them, there is a sense that they and their faith have been betrayed.

http://www.latimes.com/news/op…..7533.story

So, is it the position of the Caltholic heirarchy and the Cardinal Newman Society that only those who favor the criminalization of abortion should be allowed to speak at the University of Notre Dame?

Notre Dame’s Valedictorian says that President Obama reflects Catholic values!

Class valedictorian Brennan Bollman, who will be sharing the stage with the president on Sunday, says that there has been ‘healthy debate’ on campus, but that

Like Jesus … Obama is trying to invite “everyone to the table.”

“This issue has not divided the campus by any means,” says the Catholic, pro-life biology major who will be attending Harvard Medical School after graduation.

Thanks to Massaccio and viejolext for sharing the documents and the comments. I’ve not heard of Vatican II in eons; I once knew a little and respected it. As a non-catholic, liberation theology loving Episcopalian, and former seminarian who’s worked in both the church and the world, I could relate to both sets of narratives with appreciation. I’m glad to know of Massaccio’s background, I will be inclined to read your posts more often, knowing this about you. Thanks for evoking reflection on the underlying issues in this “conflict” and for bringing up the stupidity of the anti-Obama at ND folks. I occasionally try, in the name of Christ, to understand and accept the conservatives, but I mostly write them off as just asinine, pathetic folks; my rejection of them and my need to do so when I am called to love and accept all is a moral problem for me, but I will remain a liberation theology loving Episcopalian on the far left of the political spectrum and little to no tolerance of the far right conservatives. And finally have to say God help us all in the midst of the insanities promulgated. Blessings to all,

So, is it the position of the Caltholic heirarchy and the Cardinal Newman Society that only those who favor the criminalization of abortion should be allowed to speak at the University of Notre Dame?

The Catholic hierarchy is divided on that question. A dozen or so of the American bishops would say “Yes” and they’ve made that answer loudly and publicly. The silence from the other bishops, however, reflects the division among the hierarchy — and this silence really, really irritates the hardliners.

Randall Terry went to Rome and videotaped an interview with Archbishop Raymond Burke, formerly of St. Louis and now head of the Vatican’s equivalent of SCOTUS, in which Burke slammed several US bishops by name for being too weak in opposing pro-choice Catholic politicians. Burke wouldn’t be so upset if he wasn’t in a minority.

That said, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops is in somewhat the same position as the GOP. There is a vocal hardline crowd, pushing things farther and farther to the right, with the result that many in the middle and left are deciding to leave. More moderate leaders are finding themselves on the defensive — either marginalized or ostracized.

As a Catholic, I get to talk. My church was stolen from me by rightwingers and molestors just as my former political party was stolen from me by rightwingers and fundamentalist know-nothings. My wing-nut brother, with whom I have sparred for years, admitted to me happily last night that he always thought the ‘transubstantiation’ nonsense was exactly that … nonsense. And, damn, he actually went to Catholic high school. How does a current Roman Catholic pick-and-choose and still feel that they are part of a coherent whole? It makes no sense. Do the anti-abotionists really believe, as fundamentalist Sarah Palin does, that a 12 year old raped and impregnated girls should be forced to give birth? For the glory of God? Jeez!

Sorry to be so late to this thread. I work at Notre Dame, and we’ve been “treated” to a man driving a truck festooned with photos of aborted fetuses, Fr. Jenkins and Obama, a ND logo with “shame” emblazoned above it, and a huge cross on top, circling the perimeter of campus day after day. A small plane has been flying around the campus for the last couple of weeks, towing a banner with a photo of a bloody fetus. I received a “blind” e-mail from someone claiming to love “Nortre Dame” (spelled that way multiple times, so not a typo) promising to pray that ND never wins another football game. Protestors (including that nutjob Alan Keyes) have been forcibly removed from campus.

I can promise you that not ONE of these people is devoting one single brain cell to the graduating seniors and their families, a big majority of whom are honored to have President Obama as their commencement speaker. This is shameful and disgusting.

Masaccio, thank you for this post. As a non-Catholic I can only imagine how you must feel.

Catholic bishops, as peterr says, are divided. The evidence of that is in the document that people are calling the policy of the association of bishops, which is here. As the document says, the report is an interim report. The Bishops do not agree on the document, and there won’t be a final report until they reach agreement. Second, the document itself refers only to “abortion on demand”. That isn’t the law under Roe v. Wade, and Obama doesn’t support that policy. This document confuses the law with its bete noir. Third, take a look at this paragraph and see if you can explain it.

The polarizing tendencies of election-year politics can lead to circumstances in which Catholic teaching and sacramental practice can be misused for political ends. Respect for the Holy Eucharist, in particular, demands that it be received worthily and that it be seen as the source for our common mission in the world.

At some point, the Bishops may rationalize their policy, and when they do, we’ll have something to talk about. In the meantime, Catholics who look to Vatican II will continue to think for themselves.

I’m a big fan of Leo XIII and John XXIII. IMHO, Ratzinger blows with the wind. He was a big fan of Vatican II, but when the wind shifted, so did he. IMHO, he and the right-wing bishops he has appointed deserve no allegiance. They are the anthisis of the best of the Church.