The death of former CIA "ghost prisoner" Ali Mohamed al-Fakheri, aka Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi, is beginning to make some serious waves in the press. The story was initially broken in the U.S. on May 10 by Andy Worthington. Now Newsweek is reporting (H/T, again, the redoubtable Mr. Worthington) that al-Libi was "healthy and had no apparent physical ailments" when Human Rights Watch (HRW) visitors met him on April 27, only days before he was found dead in Tripoli’s Abu Salim prison.
But Michael Isikoff and Mark Hosenball have even stranger circumstances to report (emphases added):
Human-rights workers and Libyan dissidents tell NEWSWEEK they have independently confirmed the report [of Libi's death] from sources inside Libya and demanded an immediate independent investigation into the circumstances of his death. Libi, who once served as emir of the Khalden training camp in Afghanistan, had recently been identified by defense lawyers in the U.S. as a prime potential witness in any upcoming trials of top terror suspects, either in revamped military commissions or in U.S. federal courts. Brent Mickum, a U.S. lawyer who represents Abu Zubaydah, another high-value CIA detainee who is alleged to have worked closely with Libi, says he had recently begun efforts through intermediaries to arrange to talk to Libi. "The timing of this is weird," Mickum says.
Mickum’s characterization of the timing of al-Libi’s death is apt. It certainly raises serious questions when a potential witness in either U.S. federal courts or military trials is healthy one day and suddenly turns up dead a week later. The questions take on an added piquancy when one considers that this witness was also a primary victim of U.S. rendition and torture, and recanted a confession, the substance of which was used to justify going to war with Iraq.
What makes the timing especially odd is that after a number of years of silence and obscurity, whereabouts supposedly unknown, “intermediaries” were being assembled to talk with al-Libi. What were they going to talk about? Did Abu Zubaydah’s attorney hope for exculpatory testimony from al-Libi? One wonders if Human Rights Watch appeared at Abu Salim prison and only coincidentally found al-Libi there.
The British human rights group Reprieve, which is heavily involved in the case of Binyam Mohamed in England, admits trying to make contact with al-Libi, as I reported on Tuesday, picking up the original report from the UK Telegraph. According to the Telegraph, Clive Stafford Smith, who heads up the British charity group, said, “Reprieve has been exploring tentative contacts with al Libi, and his death may have been a result of the pressure to allow him to speak openly about his torture.”
What could al-Libi have testified about? It was al-Libi who, tortured by mock burial, among other things, by the CIA or their proxies in Egypt in late 2001 or early 2002, coughed up Abu Zubaydah’s name as a top Al Qaeda leader. (Al-Libi ran the Khalden training camp and Zubaydah assisted him by running a guest house for it — H/T Mary). But the Defense Intelligence Agency and some CIA agents reportedly suspected al-Libi’s information was dubious as early as February 2002. Al-Libi’s torture consisted, among other atrocities, of being buried in a box in Egypt, just as later Zubaydah would also be threatened by mock burial. By the time the interrogation of Ali Zubaydah had begun in March 2002, the CIA and possibly other agencies knew or should have suspected that Zubaydah was not as important as was claimed.
The interrogation of Zubaydah was explored as part of testimony at the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday (see live blog by Marcy Wheeler here and here.) Of the many fascinating details coming out of that hearing — currently the topic of a number of interesting articles — the references to the application of an experiment by the ex-SERE CIA contractor, most likely James Mitchell, seemed especially important.
The quotes below are from the prepared statement of Ali Soufan, the FBI agent in charge of Zubaydah’s interrogation, until the CIA/CTC arrived with their ex-SERE contractor, most likely James Mitchell (H/T Marcy Wheeler, who deservedly has been named a winner of the Hillman Award for her investigative work):
After a few days, the contractor attempted to once again try his untested theory and he started to re-implementing the harsh techniques. He moved this time further along the force continuum, introducing loud noise and then temperature manipulation.
Once again the contractor insisted on stepping up the notches of his experiment…
In summary, the Informed Interrogation Approach outlined in the Army Field Manual is the most effective, reliable, and speedy approach we have for interrogating terrorists. It is legal and has worked time and again.
It was a mistake to abandon it in favor of harsh interrogation methods that are harmful, shameful, slower, unreliable, ineffective, and play directly into the enemy’s handbook. It was a mistake to abandon an approach that was working and naively replace it with an untested method. It was a mistake to abandon an approach that is based on the cumulative wisdom and successful tradition of our military, intelligence, and law enforcement community, in favor of techniques advocated by contractors with no relevant experience.
The mistake was so costly precisely because the situation was, and remains, too risky to allow someone to experiment with amateurish, Hollywood style interrogation methods — that in reality — taints sources, risks outcomes, ignores the end game, and diminishes our moral high ground in a battle that is impossible to win without first capturing the hearts and minds around the world. It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in our efforts against al Qaeda.
Zubaydah told the Red Cross that he heard or he suspected the CIA was trying things out on him. Today’s statement by Soufan at the Senate Judiciary hearing is powerful corroborating evidence that there was experimentation going on (for more evidence, see just below). It seems likely that Abu Zubaydah was a primary subject of JPRA/SERE’s reverse-engineering of torture techniques, using the paradigm of psychologist and former American Psychological Association president Martin Seligman’s theory of "learned helplessness."
But it wasn’t the end of the experimentation. In the report of the Senate Armed Services Committee on prisoner treatment released last month, it is reported that Colonel John P. Custer, then-assistant commandant of the U.S. Army Intelligence Center and School at Ft. Huachuca, Arizona was fond of calling Guantanamo’s prison "America’s Battle Lab" in the war on terror, and in a review of interrogations at Guantanamo recommended combining FBI and military techniques to extract "information by exploiting the detainee’s vulnerabilities." This was in the summer of 2002, roughly the same time that the more aggressive interrogation and waterboarding of Zubaydah was in full swing. This "Battle Lab" approach brought some partial objections from Colonel Britt Mallow of the Criminal Investigative Task Force:
[Guantanamo commanders, Major General] Dunlavey and later MG Miller referred to GTMO as a "Battle Lab" meaning that interrogations and other procedures there were to some degree experimental, and their lessons would benefit DOD in other places. While this was logical in terms of learning lessons, I personally objected to the implied philosophy that interrogators should experiment with untested methods, particularly those in which they were not trained.
Much earlier, in April 2002, FBI interrogator Ali Soufan (who is no unsullied hero in my book, just not as cruel or sadistic as the other interrogators) had no known objections to subjecting Zubaydah to shackling and sleep deprivation and isolation — typical old-fashioned CIA coercive interrogation treatment, consistent with the type of treatment delineated in the CIA’s KUBARK interrogation manual of the 1960s. Indeed, Soufan admitted during the hearing that his interrogation was not compliant with Common Article Three of Geneva. But the bizarre techniques of the “learned helplessness” paradigm, derived from reverse-engineering the stress inoculation torture simulation of the military’s Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape (SERE) program was too much for him, other FBI agents, and even other CIA interrogators . Then Chief Operational Psychologist from the CIA’s Counter-Terrorism Center, Scott Shumate, reportedly left Zubaydah’s interrogation in disgust. Soufan characterized the new experimental techniques as "borderline torture."
Yet, no one tried to stop the experiment, though Soufan and others “protested” or walked out. Moreover, it’s likely everyone involved in the Zubayah interrogation knew it was an experiment; in fact, Soufan speaks of it as such. Moreover, they knew or must have suspected it had the blessings of top layers of the Defense Department and the White House, if not support from some at the Department of Justice. How could it have been otherwise that a contract interrogator was able to overrule strategy of FBI interrogators on the scene? Could this be why when, according to the FBI Inspector General’s report on FBI involvement in detainee interrogations," Assistant Director Pasquale D’Amuro pulled the FBI interrogators (or at least Soufan) from the Zubaydah interrogation, neither he nor anyone else at FBI or DoJ made any other effort to intervene.
No known protest was made to other agencies until D’Amuro, who had briefed FBI Director Robert Mueller, met with various administration officials, including Michael Chertoff and Alice Fisher of DoJ’s Criminal Division, in July or August 2002. By then, it was said CIA had gotten DoJ approval for use of the "enhanced" techniques, and D’Amuro was reduced to selling the FBI’s ability to "add value" to the interrogation of "high value detainees." No one remembers talking specifically about Zubaydah at that meeting. Only later, in August, did the FBI definitively pull out of these interrogations, including that of Zubaydah, in part, perhaps because, as an agency Section Chief for International Terrorism paraphrased D’Amuro’s position, the "FBI would have to testify before Congress some day and that the FBI should be able to say that it did not participate" in the "enhanced" interrogations (i.e., torture).
It’s important to note that I’m not the only one, and certainly not the first, who has discerned a torture experiment underway beneath the surface of the Bush-era torture program. Spiegel Online came to the same conclusion in a May 12 article on SERE psychologists Mitchell and Jessen. In her 2008 book, The Dark Side, Jane Mayer quoted James Mitchell as saying that Zubaydah was "like an experiment, when you apply electric shocks to a caged dog, after a while he’s so diminished, he can’t resist" (H/T Jason Leopold). In an appendix to the second edition of his book, Oath Betrayed: America’s Torture Doctors, published earlier this year, bioethicist Steven Miles describes the Guantanamo interrogation of Mohammed al-Qahtani as an experiment. Looking at the interrogation log of Al-Qahtani, published online by Time, Miles notes (emphasis added):
What is the point of meticulously recording the prisoner’s tears and bathroom privileges, digressions on dinosaurs, and reactions to the interrogators’ playing checkers if the primary interest is intelligence acquisition? The peculiar content and structure of this document makes sense if it is the log of research on coercive interrogation…. From the nature of prior CIA interrogation research and the log, it is possible to infer a design of the research project. (p. 176)
What was the interrogation experiment by CIA and its contract ex-SERE psychologists really about? One wonders if they were even about getting intelligence at all, or not primarily, but about experimenting with new ways to break down individuals psychologically, which could come in quite handy if what you were looking for were ways to find malleable individuals to inflate the Al Qaeda threat (the better to cover up the tremendous intelligence failure around 9/11) and manufacture links between bin Laden and Saddam Hussein (the better to get the longed-for invasion of Iraq).
Now al-Libi, an early victim of the Bush administration’s expanded program of extraordinary rendition, is dead, and can’t testify as to his torture. Was he also a very early subject of the SERE-"enhanced interrogation" torture experiment? We likely will never know. But Zubaydah, who was such a subject, is said to be brain damaged and "nearly insane," according to a report in the L.A. Times last month (emphasis added):
Partly as a result of injuries he suffered while he was fighting the communists in Afghanistan, partly as a result of how those injuries were exacerbated by the CIA and partly as a result of his extended isolation, Abu Zubaydah’s mental grasp is slipping away.
Today, he suffers blinding headaches and has permanent brain damage. He has an excruciating sensitivity to sounds, hearing what others do not. The slightest noise drives him nearly insane. In the last two years alone, he has experienced about 200 seizures.
But physical pain is a passing thing. The enduring torment is the taunting reminder that darkness encroaches. Already, he cannot picture his mother’s face or recall his father’s name Gradually, his past, like his future, eludes him.
Human Rights Watch and others are calling for an independent investigation immediately into the death of Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi.



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Thanks Jeff.
Difficult to understand – thank you for helping us walk through this nightmare, we need to get to the other side.
Great analysis, Jeff. FDL is the place to go for insight on this rapidly evolving and interconnected story. Like Watergate in real time.
Question for the FDL crew: Have any torture apologists (Cheney et al) made any attempt to explain their rationale for why waterboarding was a war crime for which Nazis, Japanese, US soldiers and that Texas sheriff were prosecuted as torture but is now somehow acceptable? I’ve never seen this adequately addressed by any of the talking heads.
It’s so sad. What we’ve done is disgusting. The extent of the devaluation of human life is very disturbing. Thank you so much for all your excellent reporting of all this.
OT, David Axelrod is on the News Hour and I think he might earn the moniker the Eel. He’s a slithery fellow trying to paint his master as making the wise decision on suppressing the torture photos. He’s on the same page as Cheney. No doubt they will share a good laugh and a meal away from the cameras.
Yet, no one tried to stop the experiment,
Expect a fundraising email for their valiant protect Cheney efforts first thing in the morning.
Hey Jeff,
Nice piece. Just catching up. Had to comment on Wilkerson’s contribution to the most significant story of all (Cheney used torture to justify an illegal war — there is no bigger story, eh?) and also working on a follow-up to Judge Kessler’s immensely important Guantanamo ruling (no torture, but more ineptitude from the Justice Department’s still-serving Bush-era lawyers than you would credit, all of which casts serious doubts on the Obama administration’s motives).
Despite these distractions, I’m becoming so saturated with the torture story that it’s making me a little queasy thinking about it, and realizing that the reason civilized people struggled for so long to establish lines that we mustn’t cross is because when you do the “Dark Side” is somewhere very dark indeed.
I keep thinking what an expert in the program told Jane Mayer in 2007:
“It’s one of the most sophisticated, refined programs of torture ever. At every stage, there was a rigid attention to detail. Procedure was adhered to almost to the letter. There was top-down quality control, and such a set routine that you get to the point where you know what each detainee is going to say, because you’ve heard it before. It was almost automated. People were utterly dehumanized. People fell apart. It was the intentional and systematic infliction of great suffering masquerading as a legal process. It is just chilling.”
And wondering what taking part in that does to you.
Really, really good piece. Thanks.
What a nest of snakes – Bushco, the media, the Pentagon, the DOJ, the banks, etc. It’s just a mess and we have to untangle it. FDL is doing a really job going in the weeds. Thanks.
Don’t forget to throw in a compliant Obama who would rather “look forward” than make waves. Remember he’s thinking about a multimillion book deal from the corporate media.
I’ve never been the kind of person who cared much for lists…. such as whether or not a convicted pedophile lives in ones neighborhood.
But I really want a list maintained of every person, troop, intel, politician, prison torture guard, clerk typist, hood manufacturer, doctors, etc., and where they live until they are all dead and gone.
I don’t understand the ’need’ to extract ’intel’ from captured people to create pretext or justification for political policy. Since all of the documents are ’state secrets’ we wouldn’t know the difference if they just made it all up, like Chalabi’s phony claims about Saddam Hussein, fed to Judy Miller. Why don’t they just make up their phony ’facts’ themselves instead of torturing others into imagining their scenarios for them? One would have to assume that the questions under torture are directed or at least suggestive of what scenario is ’required’ to stop the torture. Why not just leave out the torture? What is the point? Sadism?
Which brings up this question: What was done with the real intelligence gained by Ali Soufan and others via rapport? Were any real ’terror plots’ revealed and prevented? From what I’ve read the scary plots that have been blasted through the media: liquid bomb, Liberty 6, Long Island gas line explosion, etc. were all fabricated by the FBI using paid informants, to keep the people afraid and supportive of the regime. It all seems totally stage-managed theater to justify the predetermined wars of aggression, using unwitting hapless victims as faces to lend credence to the propaganda.
and bug keepers
Meant to say that FDL is doing a really GOOD job.
preview is my friend.
Waterboard.. and stress test equipment maintenance crews.
The destruction of interogation tapes continues to take on new significance.
For those interested here’s a link of several photos that Cheney and Obama would like to keep hidden from the public. They were leaked to an Australian paper. Warning, images are disturbing for those that are concerned about what is done in their name.
http://georgewashington2.blogs…..obama.html
In response to the Jane Mayer quote in Andy Worthington’s comment #8, I remember reading this:
“Soufan, testifying behind a screen to shield his identity, painted a picture of incompetence by outside contractors hastily flown in from Washington using “amateurish, Hollywood-style interrogation methods.” He also accused Bush administration officials of making false claims about their success.” Here.
It’s hard to imagine the sadists beating shackled prisoners as professional enough to fit the Mayer description.
I remember learning in a college psychology class about a study done which looked at the personality characteristics of imprisoned felons and guards. I think they used the MMPI and looked at the sociopathy scales. The study found that prisoners and guards had very similar profiles.
The questions keeps recurring – why did they continue to torture when it didn’t work? It could be that they were trying to extract testimony to support the Iraq invasion. But I keep having this creepy thought. What if they just like to torture people?
We didn’t hold the CIA accountable for the crimes they committed in Latin America and now they have been caught again. We have to stop this once and for all.
What’s the rape and murder of a few nuns and an archbishop in Latin America, not to mention tens of thousands of peasants, if it’s all done in the name of protecting the nation and the troops.
I’ve been sending that link around. Thanks for it.
Sadism & revenge. Remember that Graham said it has been around for 500 years (he was probably wrong by a factor of 10, but we’ll forgive him that), meaning that torture is a fundamental part of the human psyche. Not for every single human being, but for a very large percentage. Note how easily the bulk of U.S.ers thought torture is fine if it stops attacks. No repulsion to the basic process at all.
Welcome to Firedoglake !
just finished reading your piece on Judge Kessler’s Opinion – your work is much appreciated. thanks
oh and Jeff Kaye - fabulous piece. illuminating. thank you
We would know the difference if they made it all up. They did make it up and many of us did know. There’s a lot in the public domain, especially now with the internet.
Oh yes, what is this alleged actionable intel that Ali Soufan allegedly extracted? Or is that yet one more lie?
Wonder who the source was for the description “very clinical”, in reference to the torture videos when members of the CIA asked Harriet Miers what to do with them.
Somebody might have been trying to make experimental nature of the torture more clear when they spoke with Isikoff or Hosenball.
thought he gave up KSM – but then again, I’m adding a 3rd lobe just to keep up with all the details spilling forth
non spoiler KO alert -
Keith just covered this story. w/former CIA Jack Rice – and both of them going to motive
you came up with the short cut. I thought you would be sending it about. This is something we should see that has been done in the name of the United States.
How come Bybee didn’t show up to testify about the legal memos he wrote? Oh wait! He new he skirted the law to help the Bush Regime commit war crimes under the cover that it was legal to do!
Denny Hastert who was the republican Speaker of the House in 2002/2003 did nothing when it was learned waterboarding was being done on prisoners. ARREST THAT MAN!
Bybee is a coward. Among other things.
Hi Andy. Yes, I remember that quote from Jane Mayer, too.
The fight against torture was an integral part of the agenda of the Enlightenment. There was an interesting biography of Voltaire (by Ian Davidson, I believe) a few years ago, concentrating on his old age, and how he took up the campaign against torture in his 70s, throwing all his energies into the de la Barre case, for instance. He regretted he had not realized the significance of the practice of torture and how important eschewing it was to establishing a truly civilized society.
Seems we must learn the lesson all over for ourselves.
The more I look, the less any institution in this society comes out unscathed by these events. I don’t know who first coined the term, but that’s why torture has often been described as a universal acid: it destroys all that’s good and worthy of trust in a society.
Torture reduces other human beings to things, objects of omnipotent manipulation. It blunts our sense of humanity and morality. You can see this now when you listen to Cheney, or the unctuous Graham at the hearing the other day.
Decotodd at #3 asks if any of these torture apologists ever respond to the revelations of past U.S. condemnation and prosecution of waterboarding. To my knowledge, they never do — at least I’ve never heard it. And slowly, as with Graham’s paean to Inquisitional torture, their response has degenerated into outright defense of brutality and torture.
We are very far along a degeneration of the society. That’s why we must stop this BS now, before it sucks us all down the sewer hole.
I’m sure this is past the time your article appeared, but thanks for the great analysis.
This is Joseph Margulies’s theory in his Guantanamo book – the idea was to (1) break individuals down so that they would give up particular facts that (2) could be assembled like a “mosaic” into an intelligence picture. The theory is that destroying people’s ego was a way to unlock these facts, which wouldn’t even necessarily seem significant to the individual himself. I haven’t seen a lot of speculation on the epistemological and intelligence-gathering theory behind the reverse engineering of SERE aside from (a) Margulies’s claims and (b) the idea that the real purpose was false confessions. The former seems more plausible than the latter to me, at least.
Looking at Bybee’s record one has to wonder are rethugs really against “judicial activism”.
Yes, I’ve read Margulies’s book, and his is another corroborating source on the issue of how KUBARK style torture is used to break down individuals. The “enhanced” torture of Cheney/SERE was a baroque extension of that, and far more brutal, more like Orwell in 1984. The “mosaic” is really a bogus amalgam, as Margulies says.
His chapter on DDD (Dependence, Debility, Dread) which forms his heart of the argument about how this torture works is worth reading, although much more could be written about it. It was created by psychologists and psychiatrists, just like the “enhanced” techniques. It’s core program is still used in the Army Field Program, the same program Soufan lauded in his testimony as “a knowledge-based approach.”
After the Cheneyesque filth is washed out of the system, it will be harder still to extirpate this DDD program, as the premises for its supposed “safe” use are part of the argument that some establishment figures (Soufan, Wilkerson) are using in their condemnation of the EIT.
The “false confessions” were the real purpose, but not necessarily what the technique was invented for.
The photos you linked to have been out since the first batch. It doesn’t make them any less terrible, but I think that the Americans doing the torture in the pictures we haven’t seen yet are of special interest.
I read somewhere that Bush had a media room with some large screen televisions with direct closed circuit access to his Generals in country in the war on terra. I wonder if they were watching any of these sessions, especially at Gitmo.
Jeff, Andy,
Thanks yet again for a stimulating article and discussion. I had it in the back of my mind that something else happened to al Libi in Egypt, and it always takes a while but I remembered what it was and I was confusing him with someone else tortured in Egypt, after being questioned by American interrogators. By same time frame, I mean that he was transferred there in late 2001. His name is Mamdouh Habib, Australian citizen. Here is a link to what happened to him.
It made me think of this because of Jack Cloonan’s description of the arrest and rendition of al Libi, and his feeling that the Egyptians treated him very roughly. Also your description of al Libi being buried in a box. Habib was put in a small coffin-like cell for months, but then tortured with an electric drum and shackles.
For some reason I had thought I had read of the same treatment being applied to al Libi but maybe I’m wrong. There is a statement from him somewhere about his transcript, that is, his recanting his statements about Iraq.
Good point. I thought, while typing up the comment from Jane Mayer’s book, that it sounded like it referred to the later phase of the program, especially the reports we’ve had out of Poland, of a very clinical, mechanized system.
Perhaps this is more appropriate (also from Mayer), and relating to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s “interrogation”:
“There were some horrible moments,” said [a] former CIA officer, who declined to provide details. “Things went too far. It was awful. Awful.”
Remember the Bushie IT guy died in an airplane crash.
Now al-Libi suicide.
Loose ends?
Do bin Laden or Zawahiri qualify too?
Who else?
Thanks for the support. I really should have been turning up and commenting some time ago (I got login details when I did the Book Salon last year), but have a tendency to spend my every waking moment writing articles.
I’m going to try and get engaged here on a more regular basis, however. FDL’s definitely the place where clued-up, inquiring minds go to talk.
Publicly available details only ever seem to mention KSM and Jose Padilla, and I doubt there’s anything else behind that in terms of “plots” — which is not to say that the FBI didn’t possibly get lots of useful information about how Khaldan worked, who attended the camp, what they might have done afterwards etc.
The problem with the KSM story, of course, is that Zubaydah didn’t lead them to him — a walk-in informant did. And the problem with the Padilla story is that, although, at best, this mentally challenged wannabe might have entertained plans to use a dirty bomb, he hadn’t got any further than browsing the internet, as Wolfowitz admitted shortly after his capture.
Not that this did anything to stop the Cheney crew torturing him in a naval brig until he lost his mind, and rendering the other conspirator in a non-existent plot — Binyam Mohamed — to be tortured in Morocco and the “Dark Prison.”
Not sure how this could be construed as success …
welcome back andy – looking forward to what you have to say