A couple of points here: First, it isn’t the photos; it is the acts themselves that put US troops in danger. The abuse is widely known among Iraqis, and those inclined to act don’t need photographic evidence as justification.

That’s one opinion.

The Army’s CYA.

the Merkins NEED photos to keep their attention imvho

Well the photos could be worse much worse than the Abu Graid photos still I support releasing them.
Now then if you want to support the troops put Bush and Cheney in county jail and hold them pending trial as flight risks.
And make sure that the Arab press has three guys watching 24/7 just to make sure they get no special treatment.
Then make the reporters eat the brown peaches. The cleansing effect alone should convince them County is no cakewalk.

Thanks, Gregg. Let’s get those calls and e-mails going to the WH. Odierno is an idiot if he thinks not releasing the pics will make a difference. He is not us.

Sad to say, but “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”. You can fool me once, but I won’t be fooled again? It’s so sad that this is what America has become.

We had to torture because we had been attacked on 9-11! Now we must cover up what asses we were because we wanted to invade Iraq and implement democracy because if we have a democracy in the middle east, all the other countries will follow.

Isn’t that the same as our justification for Vietnam? We must defeat communism in the far east or the other countries will follow suit like “dominoes”?

So, it’s not ok for the the domino theory to apply to communism, but it’s ok if it applies to democracy, oh, and only a democracy that we approve?

Just sad, that’s all I can say.

Peace?

The military is afraid now that their troops will be tortured. Many thanks to all these idiot generals that said yes to torturing the so called enemy. Release the photos. Maybe then we will stop torturing people and have some real action from our DOJ.
Release the photo’s. So what if American’s can’t leave the country any more. We deserve it.

Defense officials say Odierno is “vehemently opposed” to the release because he fears it could create a widespread “backlash” against military forces in both war zones.

According to one official, “It would put a bullseye on the backs of our forces.”

====================
more total bullkacky…remember roadside bombs…the bullseye has been there for 6 years

So, if not releasing them won’t make a difference then what’s the difference?

true dat….show em were cleaning up our act

People are always willing to believe the worst. Hold the leaders Bush/Cheney accountable in jail awaiting trial and the troops won’t get blamed as much for what those jerks did.

Good luck with that.

Obama appears to be the Status Quo president, whether being a Wall St yes-man or continuing miltary destruction in Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama’s policies are virtually indistinguishable from Bush’s.

It’s forward progress that we can have an African American as our president. It’s not progress at all that he often he mirrors Bush/Cheney policies.

According to Mike Malloy the torture documentation includes the torture of children in front of their mothers. If that were true, then yes, I can see where releasing THIS documentation could provide even greater backlash than the originals…

Doesn’t justify trying to keep it hidden, however: Obama’s best approach would be to air all the dirty laundry and clear America’s image.

Good point ! The only difference, as I see it is, if Obama releases the photos, all future troop casualties will be tied around his neck.

It will make a difference to us – not the Iraqi people. They already know what’s going on. The American people need to see what we have allowed to happen and forever be ashamed. IMO

yes admit what we did,punish all perpetrators,and MAKE AMENDS

We have to stop using the troops to excuse torture we Lefties want to Prosecute the troops.
LIE I want Bush and Cheney.
Releasing these photos harms the troops yes if we do Nothing to Punish Bush and Cheney ourselves we must show the Iraqi’s that in America even Presidents must face the law.
Such an act is unheard of elsewhere without a revolution. This is what Rule of Law and Democracy is about we can change the system even the highest most Powerful can be changed and Charged without a revolution.

yup

I’m hopeful heck I never dreamed I would see an African American President in my life time.
I honestly thought Bush getting tried on war crimes was a better bet.

in a way,we must release pics,just to shut up the likes of Darth,Liz and Ms.Graham…imo

Just a reminder to the administration: It’s not so much the crime as the coverup that’s the downfall. What are you guys thinking?

Odierno is not to be trusted and his opinion is so tainted, who cares what he thinks. On the other hand, let the Justice Department take possession of the photos and use them against Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and Co. and persue indictments for war crimes. It is not the pictures making their way public, but the evidence they contribute that gives them value. They would have more impact in the course of a prosecution than simply for public comsumption in the news cycle, unless of course they are so awful as to finally wake the sleeping public to demand indictments.

Come on, “forever ashamed”? I’m wayyyyyyy to cynical to believe that.

No matter how bad, it needs to get out. It’s going to sooner or later anyway.

we have the freedom of information act. when acted upon it can be a tool for preventing our government from acting in secret. we’ve had lots of secrecy and most of it, imo, hasnt been in the interests of we, the people. it’s often been in the interests of those profiting from the decisions. personally, i’d like there to be very little that’s kept secret. the chips can fall where they may.

i also would like our people fighting our government’s and halliburton’s wars home today. imo, we have no legitimate reason to put our people in harm’s way nor the iraqi, afghani or pakistani people.

Half the people here would like that.

Release the pictures and protect the troops tell the Iraqi’s we are pulling out sooner than expected.
Tell the GOP that Bush put the bulleye on our troops and that staying in Iraq is impossible.
Release the Photos don’t release them the Iraqi’s saw the Abu Graid photos under Bush I doubt we can make the Iraqi’s more angry than they already are.

we tortured kids

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/14/193750/666

i dont think so, a small contingent to be sure,however

OT – just got this incredible pic.

I thought most complained that Obama was not going Left on ending the war now, national healthcare, a bad bank bailout.
I thought they wanted Obama to do EVERYTHING the first few weeks.
But blaming Obama for the troops dying have things gotten that bad here?

but its true…LIMPBALLS would be wailing nite and day about PBO wanting our troops to fail

oy

Why is the truth always so wicked, when simple lies will pacify everyone? Mr. Obama’s inexperience is dripping. His reliance on Gates and Bush’ generals, the old guard and on Wall Street is giving us little change and less hope.

BTW, if the truth makes Petraeus and Odierno’s jobs harder, maybe their political bosses should give them something else to do.

That’s not fair.

I’m fairly cynical myself but I believe that most people – certainly not all – have a small place inside that tells them right from wrong. Those who are doing all this yapping, like Graham, keep hearing from that place but don’t want to listen.

When the President acts in the interest of the American rule of law support him. Lilly Ledbetter.

When the President acts in the interest of the Corporate elite criticize him. Trillions to the Banks, bubkiss to the mortgage holders.

When the President acts against the constitution, impeach him. Going to war on a lie (Bush). Protecting the criminals and covering up their behavior (Obama)

We need to stop pointing fingers and placing blame and move forward.

[/village]

President Barack Obama is set to announce that his administration will challenge the release of photos that reportedly show the abuse of detainees in Iraq by US soldiers.

How do we know its not the CIA, Blackwater etc ruffing up a prisoner, beating them to death sure guards do that but interrogation?
Nope higher ups always do that they want to be there when the prisoner breaks because who ever is there when the prisoner breaks gets the credit for getting the intel.
Do you really think the higher ups would let some lowly solder get the Cred
after all if the intel is big enough it means a promotion.
Troops might have helped under orders, they did soften the prisoners up
but the hard stuff sorry there was always some big wig around to give the orders and grab credit.

!!

You sure about that?

Kind makes you wonder whose in charge here. If not Obama, then is it the old guard Cheney and Bush left behind, plus Rahm’s rambos and the Goldman and Gates gangs?

In the immediate short term, I can envision a spike in emotional arousal caused by release of new photos that could lead to a backlash and more violence. But over the long term, not so much.

In reading more reporting on this, I think that saying “soldiers” is much too specific–I am going to change it. Thanks for making me think about this.

oh please

My thought is that Obama’s advisers are more afraid the release of these photos will “radicalize” too many voters and get them all hup about the Constitution, war, torture, criminal investigations, illegal domestic spying, consumer protection from banksters, and universal health care. It might “hijack” his agenda, whatever the hell that is.

Everyone just think of all the times the Boss has taken credit for your work or ideas and you never got anything more than a “good job “.
Its hard to believe that our troops not being trained in interrogation besides the MPs and even they are not trained in torture would not be overseen and ordered by a CIA, Blackwater, or High level military intelligence guy.

Censorship is always rationalized as good because it is what would be good for the troops. Imagine if they had completely suppressed My Lai in Vietnam. When we are not permitted to see the true cost of war, then we are deprived of the motivation to bring a stop to it. Why the next thing you know, people will want to know what we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. What is our purpose for being there?

I just got a nice suzy cream cheese letter from the Newseum. I offered to loan them my peace vigil paintings. What were their words?……something to the effect that we are not interested in exhibiting those topics. All of the paintings are from real photographs. Is that censorship, a lack of empathy, political correctness???

Here’s my bucket of war: Http://web.mac.com/ctb3

You can change it here but it doesn’t change the fact they they will be the targets.

Thank you for listening Question Everything!

Cut it out.

Thats why we have to get out. If we really want to stop terror we have to get Ossama.
Iraq is a waste of time.

It’s what I think.

I guess that rather than have a target on soldiers backs it is a better deal to just not give them water
http://rawstory.com/08/news/20…..eal-water/

I can’t help it – every time something like this happens, my very first thoughts are somewhere along the lines of “illegal wiretaps” and “blackmail”.

Jayzus I hope I’m wrong.

BT’s upstairs with
Glenn Beck Sums up Republican Base Reaction to Charlie Crist: “BARF”

I know what you mean.

Depending on the nature of the photos, there may well be backlash, and American soldiers may not be the only targets.

I would agree that release of the photos puts increased pressure on President Obama et al. (read DOJ)to then follow through on prosecuting those involved with initiating and perpetuating torture (read Bush/Cheney…). I think this is systemic in that releasing memos and photos cannot be done in isolation; such actions contribute to the need/desire to reconcile, to see that justice is done. I wonder if President Obama erred in that he thought such disclosures, in and of themselves, would quell the need for further action. Perhaps he is now recognizing that this is not the case. I would hope that actions that resurrect and promote the “rule of law” would be the driving force behind his decision-making.

Saw a sad, short interview with the father and son of the soldier who killed the other 5 soldiers today. I think the brass is doing a pretty good job of putting those bulleyes on their troops’ backs by breaking them to the point of insanity.

How about Obama releases all the prisoners and publicly says America is sorry for the torture that could take some of the anger the Iraq people feel away.
Plus some cash would be nice.
A Promise to try Bush for his crimes even better.
A faster pullout from Iraq much better.
Photos of Bush wearing an Orange Jumpsuit squatting on a metal toilet in full view of everyone because the doors won’t close?
The Iraqi’s will be to busy laughing for a day or two to shoot at us.

I am not so sure Obama is incorrect in making this decision.

The following argument is less than persuasive.

A couple of points here: First, it isn’t the photos; it is the acts themselves that put US troops in danger. The abuse is widely known among Iraqis, and those inclined to act don’t need photographic evidence as justification.

The release of these photos will inflame the situation and place our troops in greater peril. Now, I concede that isn’t necessarily the end of the argument. But, a better case needs to be made for the release of these photos before I am presuaded that their release is in our best interest.

This entire controversy and the hearings today make painfully clear that the torture program, whether more pictures are released or not, has gravely endangered our troops and cost American lives. Cheney’s argument that he saved American lives is a despicable lie.

Sometimes I wish we would get attacked again so we could unleash the total firepower of the US against our “enemies”. If we cover the middle east with our nuclear arsenal then we are sure to get some of those who wish us harm. If there are innocents among them, then let them point out who the terrorists are, or suffer along with them. I’m tired of these war games. Anyone who has ever held a weapon in defense of this country knows that true war is not, nor shall ever be a “game”. If they want war, the US can give them WAR.

Peace?

We could announce an immediate pullout from Iraq and then release the photos when its done. Just as long as Bush and Cheney are in Jail and can’t flee I’m cool with that.
Got to go bye!

Speaking of insanity…

I’m so angry over this back peddling on the photos. I sent an email to the White House expressing my feelings. I also called them but I couldn’t continue to hold for an operator on their comments line and I finally had to hang up (I have a rotary phone so I had to wait for an operator).

I think the brass is doing a pretty good job of putting those bulleyes on their troops’ backs by breaking them to the point of insanity.

this is so true.

Think of the absoulutely countless families destroyed by this eveil war.

I thought Petraus wanted all the photos released …

*Someone* in charge SHOULD have considered these consequences years ago. It’s just a bit late now.

Obama will have covered all the bases he can. He’ll let the courts decide. Then the photos will be released.

Why was there systematic photo collection???? WHAT the fucking hell is that all about. Why were they documenting this? What were they documenting? That’s what we need to know. Seeing the photos might help.

I don’t believe the troops are in any more danger than they have been over the past 8 years.

It’s so obviously criminal. One step at a time.

Torture is a WAR CRIME. Anyone authorizing it, doing it, or refusing to prosecute those who do it is a WAR CRIMINAL.

Obama’s not in charge of the leaks: of that much I am sure.

Clowning becomes overt at Gibbs’ press briefing on the photos: Josh at TPM.

Not good. Not good at all.

They’re fighting the photos because it will be the end of the ”few bad apples” argument in black and white and color. It’s pushback. Obama’s sending it to the courts. Sounds good to me. The photos will be released and Gates and Co. can only blame the courts. After all, Obama will have given them more/better cover than Bush did. I can wait.

Gibbs was interrupted FOUR times in 2 minutes with cellphone ringing.

Now we have insult on top of injury…Joe Lieberman out there complimenting Obama on deciding not to release the photos. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Sanchez on CNN says Soufan says torture is ”unAmerican.”

Exactly. By keeping the photos out of circulation Cheney can continue to lie.

Release the photos, and at the same time announce the release of Petraeus, Odierno, and all other officers who, rather than resigning, ordered or allowed the torture to occur. Indict/prosecute/imprison/impeach/disbar Cheney and his lawyers as appropriate. Maybe then we would earn back a slight bit of our reputation abroad that Bushco obliterated, and lesson the justification for blowback on our troops/Americans abroad. Complete withdrawal and a heavy dose of reparations would help too.

Obama, Holder, Geittner, Penetta and the rest of the ilk are nothing more than a “POS” pure and simple! Or, to put it another way, Obama is without question “more of the same” and basically a gigantic “fraud” that many Americans believed would “do the right thing” for this country…you know, like restore the rule of law and defend the Constitution…that type of thing. I have ZERO…I repeat ZERO respect for this man, as well as his criminal co-conspirators, such as Bush/Cheney as well as many in his administration!!

I don’t think I have the same faith in our courts at the moment.

I don’t have faith in anything. I say nuke them all, and hope whoever is left can start over and create a more civil society. We’ve evidently failed.

This is purely a political chess move on Obama’s part. Obama is in essence throwing the decision to the SCOTUS. He pisses off his supporters on the left, but pulls the rug out from under the feat of the right wing nutjobs and Republicans who do not want the photos released. If the Supreme Court rules that the FOIA request is valid and should be followed, then Obama must adhere to the ruling. The right wing might wail and gnash their teeth, but the decision was made by the Supremes. Obama’s left wing base will be unhappy with Obama’s decision to kick the can to the Supreme Court, but from a political standpoint they will not stop supporting him. This decision is Obama playing a chess match with both the right wing nutjobs and his own left wing supporters.

It’s a weak case: Obama knows that too.

I just watched MNSBC’s Pete Williams repeat the Republican talking point about how the Democrats may not want to go down the road of investigating Bush officials because Democrats like Pelosi may get caught up in it. He didn’t bother to say that Leahy said do it…and Pelosi said to have investigations. I’m so sick of these people distorting the truth. I’m also sick of the Obama administration constantly protecting the Bush officials because they don’t want investigations. It just makes you want to scream!

Oh, please.

As Obama said on election night: he must be everyone’s President. Not just those who voted for him. I think it’s a sacred approach. Taking it to the courts is a heckuva lot better than Presidential decree. I’m against that EVEN if he is ”our” guy. That was the problem with the last guy: remember?

Presidential decree? What are you talking about? The Appeals Court ordered it.

Really? The you don’t understand what

“Don’t get involved in a land war in asia means”

and, pray tell, where’s the money coming from to pay for your “all out war”? China?

Finally, was what you wish Osama Bin Laughing Up His Sleeve’s objective?

There will be no land in asia left under my preposition. I’m just saying I give up. I’m tired of these “games”. I don’t know who to believe anymore. Let’s just blow everything up and start over.

You go ahead. We will miss you.

Obama, Holder, Geittner, Penetta and the rest of the ilk are nothing more than a “POS” pure and simple! Or, to put it another way, Obama is without question “more of the same” and basically a gigantic “fraud” that many Americans believed would “do the right thing” for this country…you know, like restore the rule of law and defend the Constitution…that type of thing. I have ZERO…I repeat ZERO respect for this man, as well as his criminal co-conspirators, such as Bush/Cheney as well as many in his administration!!

Hey Elliot, tell me again to “stop it”.

I think the trick is to respect everyone’s opinion, up or down, and to keep on our own path.

a trick indeed

You’ll get no argument on that.

Marcy is at it again, top of the front!
Dick Cheney, the “Not Available” Briefer?

In response to Continuum May 13th, 2009 at 12:09 pm

“Obama’s left wing base will be unhappy with Obama’s decision to kick the can to the Supreme Court, but from a political standpoint they will not stop supporting him.”

You keep thinking that my friend…and you would be wrong!!

“A couple of points here: First, it isn’t the photos; it is the acts themselves that put US troops in danger. The abuse is widely known among Iraqis, and those inclined to act don’t need photographic evidence as justification.”

A ridiculous argument. Documents of events already within public knowledge have been known to incite movements throughout history. “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” was a proportional catalyst that put the anti-slavery issue and abolitionists on such a confrontational course with Lincoln that it is said, only half ironically, to have started the Civil War. Everybody knew slavery existed and that it was probably bad (in the Northern states), but the book itself depicted the practice in such a way to incite even greater anger.

Pictures in and of themselves have bolstered movements as well. The pictures in “LIFE” and “TIME” of Emmett Till, a 14 year old child, lynched for whistling at a white woman were so horrifying that they caused a nation-wide outcry that led to greater dissemination of Martin Luther King’s message (later events added to this outrage but there is no denying to impact of those pictures across the nation).

Given that Iraq is still reeling from the U.S. invasion (though undoubtedly strides have been made) there is reason to believe that many Iraqis, though knowing of the torture of Abu Grad have yet to see the evidence, and these photos are said to go beyond that. As a source for recruitment into a resistance movement they could prove invaluable. It is naive to think photos do not hold power over us even more than intangible knowledge of events. The U.S. has used this to its advantage more than once in the years since the Viet Nam war. By restricting the images of damage caused by U.S. forces and showing the brutality of the enemy (the dragging through the streets of the bodies of those killed in the Black Hawk “Super 64″ helicopter in Mogadishu were televised, for instance) they use photos and video to stoke or repress support. Assuredly Iraqi resistance movements would use these photos to great effect.

Whether or not this is an argument against the release of these photos is a different issue. I tend to think they should be released because we are, supposedly, an open society and because Obama has demanded more openness of government. But it is an important issue to remember that they will cause more deaths in Iraq and the ground troops are not those involved in the decision to torture. Let’s not ignore this.

I’m already not supporting him. I’m very ANGRY over this.

I don’t want to see the photos. I have seen enough. Let’s stick with prosecuting the torturers. We don’t need the photos, unless they are needed to prosecute, but they don’t need to be on my tv, in my newspaper or in magazines. The ones of Abu Garaib were bad enough for me.

I watched as that happened. It was very depressing news and even more depressing watching how Gibbs turned a serious moment into one of frivolity. I didn’t think I could get any angrier but I did. That’s when I sent my email to the White House and then decided to call them too. Asshat.

Why do we need to see these photos?

Yeah “Some things in life need to be mysterious,” “Sometimes you need to just keep walking.

2 reasons, IMO

One is: I am against the death penalty, and I cannot conceive how anyone thinks it makes sense for the state to take a life. Under this theory, I believe it should be incumbent upon those charged with the decisions to visit upon themselves the actual visual repercussions of that decision. In the same way, a society that condones torture, and by extension stands up for those who perform it, that society must be confronted with the repercussions of that judgment.

and

Two: The worst nightmare of those who back these practices is for their constituients to see what they have condoned. Yes, it is political, as are the elections that put these fiends in the position to condone it in the first place.

If we are to visit horror upon people, we are obligated to confront it.
Peggy Fucking Noonan is just plain wrong.

Thank you for responding. I was in too angry of a mood to do so. I’m also glad you recognized Ms. Noonan’s words.

If Noonan weren’t so repellent, she would be comical. I hold my nose and watch her weave whenever I can, because she is the smoother version of their dissonance. She is the one they put out front.

I read an account of the interview. I agree with you.

I have a video of Noonan from a Morning Joe show that I plan on putting up on my blog (I was going to do it today but haven’t had a chance). You’ve got to see her cynical little performance. I should have it up by tomorrow. Check it out then.

http://democracity.blogspot.com/

Thanks. Will watch for it.

Obama just said on TV that the photos are not as bad as the earlier ones that were released but then he says their release would endanger the troops?

Yeah, right.

Christy is upstairs!
OLC: Make That A Stick, Harry…

can someone remind me why i voted for this guy again?
cus I’m wondering where my fucking change is.

Considering how much of that taunting and torture in those unreleased photos is specifically dependent on degrading their ethnic and religious customs, I think the Obama administration’s refusal to release them is prudent, to put it mildly.

The arrogant, jovial pointing poses and the shameful forced nakedness of very modest people would only serve to lower our already Bush-bottomed-out international public image. And that could very well lead to some of our troops being attacked. If you think your outrage at not seeing the photos would be greater than theirs after seeing those photos, ponder if one of those victims was your brother, father or friend.

For those of us with friends and family in those foreign lands, it just makes sense to do whatever it might take to avoid the firestorm of violence towards Americans that might follow releasing those photos.

So, while I really don’t think we should be there (take your pick which “there” I mean), loose lips still sink ships. While our public voyeurism always demands satisfaction, common sense dictates this is one of those cases where the voyeurs can wait. Too many innocent lives are still at risk.

1. The troops already are in harm’s way. Odierno is just being self-serving about his complicity.

2. The primary driver that I see for not wanting to PO the muslim world is Obama’s upcoming trip to Egypt.

3. This excess of caution might backfire. In Egypt.

a society that condones torture, and by extension stands up for those who perform it, that society must be confronted with the repercussions of that judgment.

Well, I was going to say that we aren’t that society that condones torture but I was speaking of myself and others that don’t condone it. There are those who try to defend it, but they are stupid and ignorant and the photos probably won’t change their stupid sadisism.

Haven’t we seen pictures of the US torturing prisoners before? What will more pictures prove?

You’ve seen the pictures in question?

I’m not sure that the joviality of the American troops in the Abu Graib pictures necessarily carries over to these pictures. The Abu Graib pictures that have been released most likely are the ones without the salient characteristics of the torture outlined in the OLC memo.

The firestorm of violence has already happened.

And it is not a matter of public voyeurism. It is a court order responding to ACLU, which no doubt might use the photos in legal action.

I agree. Not because I want to protect the torturers but I do believe that these pictures are going to be very inflammatory. Hell, we know we tortured. Dick tells us every day and he still wants to do it. Hell, send HIM the photos — each and everyone.

If we need the pictures in a court of law by all means let them have it, but don’t put them on my tv.

Who wants to bet Dick Cheney called Bob Gates today and threatened to kill him with his assassination squad if these photos are released? Wouldn’t surprise me!

ARREST DICK CHENEY PLEASE! SOMEONE! ANYONE!!!!!!

While not putting anything past Shooter, I suspect that if he had that kind of sway, he and his daughter wouldn’t be on every channel.

My thought is that Obama’s advisers are more afraid the release of these photos will “radicalize” too many voters and get them all hup about the Constitution, war, torture, criminal investigations, illegal domestic spying, consumer protection from banksters, and universal health care.

Ding, ding, ding

It might “hijack” his agenda, whatever the hell that is.

See your own words above. His agenda very clearly is to subvert investigations into all of the above; ie to keep the status quo. And to make a speech once in a while to quiet, confuse, and distract the rabble, and to protect his establishment ivy-league buddies.

We were warned

And as to Obama’s battered wives syndrome excuse of “we can’t tell the truth because he’ll hit me” is a flawed argument. And truthfully is actually more of the batterers threat to his wife/girlfriend that “if you speak against me the kids will get hurt.”

Does anyone really think the Iraqi’s are so close to the edge that these pics will send them over the edge? As if the fact that hundreds of thousands if not more than a million have been killed in the last 20 years of almost constant bombing from US forces doesn’t send them over the edge? As if the fact that they only have electricity for a few hours a day doesn’t send them over the edge? As if the fact that the water supply has been tainted doesn’t send them over the edge? As if the fact that millions of people have been displaced doesn’t send them over the edge? And etc … ?

I know there’s a better way to this and I’m not a medical professional but here goes … the first step is to admit your sins and abuse and ask for forgiveness, and the second step to reconciliation is through forgiveness

I think the Iraqis have shown much more restraint, civility and maturity recently than the US could ever hope for

Give me a break Obama, I’m not buying what you’re sellin’

Does anyone really think the Iraqi’s are so close to the edge that these pics will send them over the edge?

Welcome to Redundancies and Unnecessary Repetitions in Writing, 101. Sorry

They would be so much more powerful in a court of law than in a media dump.

You sent troops into someone else’s country, destroyed it and killed many people, maybe as many as a million, making millions refugees, setting up a torture regime and robbing the youth of hope, and a few photos are going to rile people up? Well, yeah, they might. They just might rile Americans up enough to start demanding that the criminals responsible for doing this and for covering it up are punished.

And Raven, no one is delighted that Obama is Bush II, but yeah, if he continues to commit war crimes such as bombing civilians in Pakistan and covering up torture, I’m for his impeachment and removal to the Hague too.

“”That’s one opinion”"…No that’s alot of opiniions and its the LAW!
The Obama administration has been defending the Bush Ghouls every step of the way and now their threatening the U.K. to not share intelligence info with them that might prevent any future U.K. attack’s unless they stop their own torture procedings!!!! What the F@#CK is that! their is somthing seriously flawed going on here with this administration!!!!

http://www.salon.com/src/pass/…..bsite.html

Hi Firepups!

I wonder if it is safe to post a link to http://balkin.blogspot.com/

Is Jack M. Balkin still ok, not beyond the pale, where thoughts unthinkable dwell?

CHS linked to him favorably very recently:

http://christyhardinsmith.fire…..le-of-law/

pointing firepups to this link:

http://balkin.blogspot.com/200…..trine.html

so, meekly tipping my cap to all you kind ladies and gents who have not been terminally banned or terminally bored by FDL, I would like to offer this as a little trip back to 2006, when the Other Party, the Party of Bad, was in power.

http://balkin.blogspot.com/200…..-lose.html

provocatively titled: “Spineless Democrats Deserve to Lose”

If the Republicans are now the Party of Torture, the Democrats are now the Party of “Torture? Yeah, I guess so.” Not exactly the moral high ground from which to seek office.

I guess we can remove that “if” now, can’t we?

So, ban me now, because I might bring up some things about the Party of the Least Worst that make those who support the (D) over all alternatives uncomfortable.

It could be called cognitive dissonance, and you should own it, not just shoot the messengers who bring it.

but if Winston Smith is working tonight (they really should be paying you, you know) to keep the Lake clean of impure thoughts, then reach for the ban, delete, and block buttons yet again, and keep fighting for Progressive Values!

If some of the photos and films could not be shown by the American press anyway, maybe those should be held back. You have to consider the victims and their families. If a trial were conducted, a redacted transcript of a trial could be made available to the press. When Americans are victims of crimes like this, the press traditionally respects the privacy of victims (especially when children are allegedly involved).