Yesterday, new questions about the bombing were raised by physicians treating victims from the attacks. The doctors report that 14 of the wounded have “unusual burns:”
Dr Mohammad Aref Jalali, the head of an internationally funded burns hospital in Herat, said villagers taken to hospital after the incident had "highly unusual burns" on their hands and feet that he had not seen before. "We cannot be 100% sure what type of chemical it was and we do not have the equipment here to find out. One of the women who came here told us that 22 members of her family were totally burned. She said a bomb distributed white pow[d]er that caught fire and then set people’s clothes alight."
Pentagon spokesman Col. Greg Julian responded by saying that they had not used white phosphorus. Responding to a DOD claim that the wounds “could have resulted from hand grenades or exploding propane tanks,” Dr Jalali noted:
"I think it’s the result of a chemical used in a bomb, but I’m not sure what kind of chemical. But if it was a result of a burning house – from petrol or gas cylinders – that kind of burn would look different," he said.
And
Gul Ahmad Ayubi, the deputy head of Farah’s health department, said the province’s main hospital had received 14 patients after the battle, all with burn wounds:”
"There has been other airstrikes in Farah in the past. We had injuries from those battles, but this is the first time we have seen such burns on the bodies. I’m not sure what kind of bomb it was," he said.
The question of US chemical use won’t go away since both the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission and the UN are asking about the injuries they have seen during their investigations of the bombing:
Nader Nadery, a commissioner for the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, said officials were concerned white phosphorus may have been used, but he said more investigation was needed.
"Our teams have met with patients," Nadery told The Associated Press. "They are investigating the cause of the injuries and the use of white phosphorus.”
(snip)
U.N. human rights investigators have also seen "extensive” burn wounds on victims and have raised questions about how the injuries were caused, said a U.N. official who asked not to be identified talking about internal deliberations. The U.N. has reached no conclusions about whether any chemical weapons may have been used, the official said.
Adding to skepticism about the Pentagon’s denials is the demand made last week by Human Rights Watch that “NATO Should ‘Come Clean’ on White Phosphorus” based on reports from an earlier incidents profiled last week by ABC News in which a girl of 8 was horrifically burned (and two of her siblings were killed). According to HRW:
NATO forces in Afghanistan should immediately release the results of their investigation into a March 14, 2009, incident in which an 8-year-old girl in Kapisa province was burned by white phosphorus munitions, Human Rights Watch said today.
The girl’s family brought her to the US military base in Bagram on March 14 for medical treatment for severe burns. US military doctors say they found white phosphorus on her face and neck. The incident took place in Alahsay district in eastern Kapisa Province, where there had been a series of fierce firefights in March involving NATO forces and insurgent groups.
NATO officials have said that according to their records, no rounds were found to have landed near the house, though have not denied using white phosphorus during this engagement. They have suggested that the Taliban may have fired the rounds, but have not provided any evidence for their claim. Today the International Security Assistance Force released information on four isolated incidents dated between December 2007 and May 2009 where they say insurgents used white phosphorus munitions.
(snip)"NATO has not denied using white phosphorus during the Kapisa incident, nor have they provided evidence that the insurgents fired these rounds," said Garlasco. "NATO and US forces need to reassure the people of Afghanistan, already alarmed by high civilian casualties, that these munitions are not being used unlawfully."
While NATO has claimed to HRW that "We do not target personnel with white phosphorus, which is a conventional weapon in the arsenals of many nations, generally used for screening, marking, and illumination" evidence from Iraq, where its use to target “insurgents” in Fallujah was admitted, suggests otherwise.
In the midst of this controversy, White House National Security Advisor James Jones made it clear that the air strikes will continue, saying President Karzai who has called for an end to all air strikes will understand “that we have to have the full complement of our offensive military power when we need it. . . . We can’t fight with one hand tied behind our back."
Afghan students did not agree:
Chanting "Death to America", "Death to the biggest terrorist" and "long live Islam", more than a 1,000 of students marched outside the university to condemn the recent US-led air strikes in Farah province, that is believed to be the deadliest incident since the beginning of the war on terror in 2001.
The students were carrying banners, written "The blood of Farah martyrs will never dry".
Students demanded the trial of elements behind the last week’s air raid in the southwestern Farah province.
The leaders of the students made up a statement criticizing the non-combatants’ deaths in both military and the Taliban attacks.
"Our people are fed up with Taliban beheadings and suicide bombings.
On the other hand, the massacre of civilians by the American forces is a crime that our people will never forget," the statement noted.
With General Petraeus telling Fox News on Sunday that there is no more Al Quaeda in Afghanistan – the claimed rationale for our war there – could someone please explain what we think we are doing in Afghanistan?
Related posts:
- McChrystal Digs In, Afghan Women Say Get Out
- White House: We Can’t Fix Our Afghan Strategy Until the Afghan Problem Goes Away
- US Forces Linked to Afghanistan Prisoner Massacre, Says Report; DoD Investigation Still MIA
- Conn Hallinan: Why the Afghan Surge Will Fail
- With Obama Rejecting All Afghan War Options, Specialist Says “To Split the Insurgency, Put Withdrawal on the Table”
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It ought to be possible to have physicians and others, who saw the results of white phosphorus used by the US in Fallujah, take a look at the survivors (and dead) in Afghanistan to confirm the burns. And, I am not using “we” for things my government does and shall continue to oppose the war/occupation in Afghanistan. I was against it from the start and continue to be against it. And the drones/missiles into Pakistan villages remain a “hot” issue for me. White phosphorus in Fallujah was covered on DemocracyNow using RAI Italian tv news material and Dahr Jamail.
http://www.democracynow.org
So we aren’t at war with Afghanistan, but we bomb their countryside and kill their civilians. We aren’t at war with Afghanistan, they are our allies, but we kill their civilians all the same. We build military bases in 120 countries and no other countries build military bases in our country.
Headlines Friday on Democracy Now:
Study: 17% of US Children Face Hunger Risk
Cost of Occupying Afghanistan to Exceed Iraq
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/8/headlines#16
With General Petraeus telling Fox News on Sunday that there is no more Al Quaeda in Afghanistan – the claimed rationale for our war there – could someone please explain what we think we are doing in Afghanistan?
heavily-armed spelunking?
deplorable.
14 of the wounded have “unusual burns:” linky does not work – goes to ‘can not find’
Wait just a minute! We don’t use white phosphorous. It’s against the rules of civilized warfare! Like TORTURE! It must be the enemy, “Taliban, Insurgents, Terrorists, Dead-Enders, AI Queda in Iraqistan, Suicide Bombers, Unscrupulous War Lords, (pick the flavor of the week to hate) that have grown tired of using children for shields (because they have to feed them?) and have decided to lob a few rounds of white phosphorous into the crowds as they leave so they can blame the American Military Heros, Our Gallant Warriors, Freedom Fighters, (Crusaders) . Nothing changes. Men in crisp uniforms that speak your language on television are easier to believe than a bunch of rag-tag brown skinned foreigners who need a translator. Hell they’re foreigners! They can’t keep terrorists from blowing up their country (oops, who can, who has?). They need our help. They’re probably welfare cheats./s
We’re fighting the Taliban who never did anything to the U.S. except host OBL when they were the govt of Afghanistan.
NPR (Saria Sarhati Nelson (sp?), in country) reported this morning that NO, W/P was Not used. Also that the alleged wittness did not see a bomb fall as was claimed. She did however report that the lack of shrapnel wounds and depth of the burns among the survivors had the doctors perplexed.
Thanks, Siun.
Oh wait, Donald Trump may rescue the latest beauty queen who sidestepped her contract obligations in a moment of recorded forgetfulness. Drop the war crimes and Torture, that’s so yesterday. More Miss California Runner-Up, please!
.
Speaking as an ex-marine gunbunny, I can absolutely assure you that if the US artillery fired WP rounds, there will be multiple records of it, from the gun on up to the Division. Somebody’s ass will fry. Prob’ly not higher than a Major, though. But this would have been at least a Lt. Col’s decision.
Very, very, very nasty stuff, Willie Peter… NEVER to be used on or near civilians.
.
It’ll be covered up, regardless of how many records there are.
I am sure that with the funds available to the MIC that something other than WP could have been developed with equal or expanded lethality.
from Siun’s must come clean link
the link again:
roger that:
p.s. despite International outcry – don’t recall any one’s ass fried over the Fallujah Atrocities – is there update to this ?
Just relating the NPR story from this morning. I’m with cosanostradamus the shit, as I recall, is very nasty stuff.
Questions that should be asked: Are planes/drones typically armed with WP or equal armaments? Were the planes that attacked this village on patrol or specifically launched for this “mission”. Is there any procedural difference for the pilots to drop or launch WP weapons? ie. does a pilot know what he is doing
Gilliard finishes with an easily understandable point
Speaking of Gilliard, Group News Blog discusses Israelis using it in Gaza. Hubris Sonic’s short link is worth a read.
I really hate to hear the “one hand tied behind our back” line. Brings up bad memories.
It sounds like something the Israelis would do to mitigate charges that they committed war crimes using Willy Pete in Gaza, with US complicity in both instances.
Siun -
Breaking about 30 min ago
U.S. Afghan Commander to be replaced
AP
On the same AP page.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s…..1-10-57-22
Listed under Latest News
Using air power in a low intensity conflict is just stupid. The extremist elements of the Taliban kill people in the 1’s and 2’s. The US kills them by the hundreds. The US/NATO uses Willy Peter against civilians, a clear violation of international law. What’s next? Blankets infected with smallpox? Not only was the Shrub administration a train wreck, the US military is now a train wreck. We’ve allowed the worst of the bunch to rise to the top. Like turds in a septic tank.
Ummm… eCHAN I know from past comments you have made that you are female. Under the Taliban you would not be allowed to comment here, or anywhere else for that matter. Just because they never did anything to the US is not a reason to not oppose them. They are not the good guys. I am not sure who is these days, but I know these guys aren’t.
The use of white phosphorus by anyone as a punitive munition is a deplorable practice. And there is some question as to who is using it.
my $.02
I spent many years in both the AF and the Army. I worked on munitions(electronics) in the AF and was in munitions-subfield-in the Army. Admitedly this was almost 30 years ago, but some things do not change. The AF used WP very infrequently, the Army used WP in hand grenades to make smoke and in arty rounds to lay a smoke barrier. IOW, any burn causalities would be a side effect, not the main effect. Now WP is not used in guided munitions as it would be a waste. When the effect you want is destruction one uses HE.
While I am sure mine is a minority opinion here, it is quite possible that the Taliban used american or NATO WP granades to create the effect that has in fact come about.
Again, going way back to 1970 when I was in Vietnam, I saw times when NVA/VC would kill peasants and fix the blame on US troops, which the MSM ate up. I have a cousin who was in the Army in Vietnam during Tet-1968. They uncovered a mass grave with hundreds of villagers shot in the back of the head by AK-47 7.62 rounds. They notified the various media outlets but no one ever came out and checked it out. This same reasoning was still going on in 1970, the MSM was all over any possible US troop atrocity, yet they totally ignored all atrocities committed by the NVA/VC as that would not fit the narrative that the reporters wanted to use.
You ask any US military combat arms soldier , I believe that the majority will say the same thing right now. The MSM-networks-will be all over any story that involves american troops and the killing of civilians, but will ignore or paper over any story that involves killing of civilians by the Taliban. It happened many times in Iraq, it is happening to this day in Afghanistan. Are american troops paranoid about the MSM? I believe that they are, having been burned too many times by “reporters” who know nothing but pontificate none the less. Lara Logan is an exception to this. She does know what she is talking about and is fair.
War is hell. The American way of war is to keep american troops alive by using bombs and arty to clear an area rather than doing it by fire and maneuver. It has been this way since the high number of american casualties in WWII and the after action reports that it took about 5000 rounds of small arms fire to create one enemy casualty.
Every war since has been the same. Call in arty or bombers to flatten a target instead of using american troops to capture a building or target. The only place you will not really see this is in built up areas.
Bombs, even precision guided munitions are not that accurate. Somehow it has become the belief of the non soldier(the american TV watcher) that a soldier can 1-shoot to wound, 2-can always tell who is the enemy and who is not and 3-that bombs can be made to only kill the enemy. All 3 are false.1- It now takes about 50,000 rounds(est by US Army) to kill one enemy. Most small arms fire is used to disrupt the enemy aim and to force them to keep their heads down. A soldier is under incredible stress when people are shooting at him and he is shooting back, it is hard to aim and to actually hit your target-snipers undergo long training periods and fire thousands of rounds, which ordinary soldiers do not to ensure that he will be able to fire when under extreme stress. 2-When people do not wear uniforms you can not tell who is the enemy and who is the bystander. The ROE-Rules of Engagement attempt to keep this in mind by telling soldiers that they can not fire unless fired upon(simplified)3-bombs can not be aimed to only kill the bad guys. They are simply explosions that can be placed in an aproximate area and the blast and the fragments will kill whoever is in that area. We have become very efficent at the use of bombs to kill large numbers of enemy fighters. Because bombs are not precision weapons, bystanders get killed. You can never know who is inside a building where people are shooting at you. You call for a bomb, it destroys the building and maybe others around it, killing all. A bomb is an area weapon, it will kill everyone in that area. American combat soldiers are well trained, but they are not your local beat cop. That is not what they are trained to do. What they are trained to do is kill or wound the enemy in order to take ground or capture a city, during that kind of operation, people die. Bystanders die. Children and old people die. That is what war is and has been for all of history. It is only since the advent of TV that war has been cleaned up. War is very messy, it is split second decision making, operating on incomplete information, not always knowing who is shooting at you. Trying to stay alive and to help keep your buddies alive. It is being bombed and not having anyone to shoot at. It is stress, massive stress.
All these reasons make me believe that, while we are not angels, we are also not criminals. The enemy this time-the taliban-are religious fanatics and are not to be believed. They will manipulate the MSM to make a point. They are fighting an asymmetrical war so they will use tactics that will enforce their POV on the people back home, not on warfighter
Sorry this is so long.
The only WP munition not requiring a piece of artillery or a plane for delivery is a hand grenade. Last time I checked US/NATO forces were the only combatants with artillery and aircraft. More casualties would be incurred with a common fragmentation grenade than WP, although the wounds would not be as horrific as those inflicted with WP.
The US focuses on the Taliban simply because they seek to overthrow the US puppet president Karzai. The fact that they harboured bin Laden and his followers provides a convenient, if dated, continued excuse for intervention. If the Taliban gain control of the country, which they will over time, we will see a return of the society we saw pre-invasion. Technically that is none of our business. On the other hand we do nothing to stop the terrorist activities of the IDF against Palestinians.
At one point the Navy ran out of 5-inch WP rounds providing gunfire support for ground troops long before Tet and we weren’t providing smoke. The spotters didn’t ask for smoke, they said “Fire for effect.” The forces of the Mobile Riverine Force routinely used WP grenades. Again not for smoke. In both cases I speak from experience.
First of all, every word that comes out of the mouths of military spokespeople and those who rely on them in the media should be presumed to be a lie. Recent history is replete with their outright fabrications, deceptions and lies. Anyone who takes what they say — about the use of white phosphorous or the slaughter of civilians or truly anything — at face value is a fool.
They lie. It’s what they do.
When it comes to the use of white phosphorous on civilian populations, yes? They LIE when they say they don’t do it, just like the Israelis LIED when they insisted they weren’t using WP on civilians in Gaza — while television reports from Gaza were showing WP rounds being fired on civilians live on the air.
Even a cursory review of the Fallujah campaigns shows extensive and deliberate use of WP as a terror weapon against civilian populations. And the denials of the military were LIES.
Now it seems to be the fashion among the NATO and American military spokespeople to blame the “Taliban” for any and all reports of civilian deaths and injuries and also for the use of WP. Assume that these accusations are LIES. We’ve had way too much experience with these kinds of lies to believe any accusation made by military spokespeople about their designated enemies.
And yet for some reason, rather than assuming the flacks are lying, their statements are given at least temporary credence. They deserve no credence whatsoever.
That doesn’t mean that reports from the victims are necessarily accurate, though over time it has usually been found that while the victim reports may not be numerically accurate, they are almost always physically accurate about who attacked whom, and who was directly responsible for the civilian deaths and injuries.
I just don’t understand why, after all this experience, the military is given any credence at all in these cases.
I guess it’s the same reason the Busheviks were given credence for their lies.
Siun wrote:
Helping the Afghan gov’t get stronger, perhaps getting rid of poppies and eliminating Afghanistan as a safe haven for Al Qaeda. At least that’s what I’ve heard & read.