Please welcome William Greider, author of Come Home America, in the comments — jh
Bill Greider has played an important part in progressive politics for as far back as I can remember. He left a career at the Washington Post to become the political editor for Rolling Stone, and his political writing was a feature there for the next 17 years. Earlier this year, his important piece at the Nation — which sounded the alarm about the efforts to cut Social Security benefits — played an important part in keeping those efforts in check (though they are far from over).
His new Book, Come Home America, confronts the the history of the modern financial crisis, and couldn’t come at a better time. From the AIG bonuses to the rule of the banking oligarchs, Greider’s book is an autopsy of a system in need of true systemic reform.
As he says in the book:
Think of America at this point as a muscular teenager, full of talent, adolescent energy, and youth’s over-reaching impulses. This is a critical stage in human development and for our nation it could go either way. Some nations that acted like willful children when they were young formed balanced societies when they became adults. Other nations have never really grown up.
The question, I think is whether-we-the people who proudly call ourselves Americans – can mature as a society. The country can develop a deeper sense of what matters most in life and what doesn’t. It can shed some self-destructive reflexes and acquire a wiser sense of national self-interest that is anchored in the nation’s ideals. Wisdom tempers egotism. This is true for both people and nations.
Or, the United States can plunge ahead self-indulgently, repeating destructive habits, acting out reckless ambitions, and getting into deeper trouble. We all know children who, for whatever reason, got older but never found themselves. This is possible for nations too, especially ones that refuse to reconcile themselves to new realities.
I am betting we will grow into our maturity and hoping that lots of Americans agree.”
Please welcome Bill Greider, whom Bill Moyers recently called "America’s leading chronicler of money, power and politics."
Related posts:
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- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Jill Richardson, Recipe for America: Why Our Food System is Broken and What We Can Do to Fix It
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Paul Starobin, After America: Narratives for the Next Global Age
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William, Welcome to the Lake.
Jane, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.
great to have you here mr greider, I am wondering if you had a hand in bringing to print the excellant article by td alman, the curse of dick cheney
man rolling stone doesn’t get the credit it should for it’s journalism
Welcome Bill, and thanks so much for being here today. It’s a bit less soggy than the last time I saw you. How are your grand kids?
Hello and Welcome!
One thing that has come of the recent downturn is that people are re-investing in community such as community gardens, harvesting water, growing food in urban settings, paying a little more attention to how we can live better if we work together.
I think these instincts are good ones and hope these and other actions are manifesting in lots of places.
Welcome to FDL this afternoon William.
I have read a good bit of your writing over the years (I still reference your article for The Atlantic where you actually got David Stockman to tell the truth)
I have not had a chance to read your book for today but would like to ask, based on Jane’s intro, if you think the Authoritarian mindset can be overcome to allow us to return to the type of country we once were. That is, the country that was NOT afraid of the challenges, be they of the WWII Axis, the Soviets, etc.
Why is there so much fear today over terror when there wasn’t that much fear (seemingly) when the missles were pointed at us on a hair trigger?
For anyone who hasn’t seen it, Bill’s recent appearance on Moyers was amazing.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..atch2.html
So I guess the question du jour would be — what do you think of the stress tests?
thanx for the link, will definately check that out jane
Dear JNW — tHANKS FOR Having me. Last time we were in the rain at the White House and four grandchildren were agog at our tiny little demo against the financial bailouts. Nothing new, I guess.
I am trying to comment. Bill
Yes, but your grandkids were intrepid and wonderful.
As long as I’ve got you here, I’ll ask — what do you think of the ever-expanding balance sheet of the Fed that nobody can look at?
the site and features get buggy here at times, it happens to all of us
bgrothus — Yes, community is the lost word in our present culture. I have a piece up now on the Nation site called “The Future of the American Dream” which is relevant. It’s an except from my book that offers my vision of American the possible — the future we can create that is not about getting richer or more powerful but about laying the ground work for “larger lives.” Check it out.
I’d like to ask if you think it’s a good idea having a private company print our paper monetary denominations
how is it possible a private company can make loans with our money to other countries, even our enemies
I cannot believe the concept of a private company printing our money and setting economic policy is a good idea
we still mint our own coins and I believe minting paper should be done by the government
That question is the heart of our dilemma — the puzzling fear that hangs over the politics and the culture. I came of age in the spirit of World War II and it still feeds my idealism about the country — the optimism was produced by Americans of all stripes working together for a single purpose and delivering. I insist that spirit is still there — I’ve seen it many times in Americans all over the map. But we have dig through the propaganda and discard the manipulation of mass-media culture. My book is my attempt to help people get over that while still facing the hard facts.
thanks. here’s the link: “The Future of the American Dream”
The verdict of us outsiders seem unanimous. The stress tests are bogus good news, an atempt to assure the public and hope that people cool off about the illegitimacy of the bank bailouts. I posted a blog at the Nation calling it Obama’s “rosy scenario.” Alas, I do not think reality is going to cooperate with the happy talk. The danger now for the president is that he will be coaxed into premature optimism and the people at large will grow cynical when they see that their lives are in recovery, only the bankers or remote economists.
Here is Bill’s, The Nation, post from Thursday: Stress Test: Obama’s Rosy Scenario
Jane, I have been holding my fire on Bernanke, partly because I have not digested all that he has attempted and want to be fair in my judgments. In principle, he is aggressively trying to stave off deflation (and also keep the credit system from seizing up). That’s worthy and, yes, it involves a risk of future inflation but that’s not what we should be worrying about now. My suspicion is that the Fed — like the Treasury — has concentrated too exclusively on helping the financial titans instead of doing more directly for the real economy. We will see soon enough if that’s the case. The critical moment I see ahead comes a few months from now. If the stimulus package and the FEDs easy money do not produce a start on real recovery, then we are staring at another precipice.
R.E.M. in the song ‘Departure’ has a lyric: “Win a eulogy from Willam Greider.”
What was up with that?
It seems there may be a break between Obama and his banker contributors over the foreign tax haven provisions.
They’re quite openly threatening him if he tries to close the loopholes and hire a bunch of IRS people to chase them down, which he very much needs to do if he’d going to reduce the deficit created by the balout. I’ve been going through the lobbying reports on the issue today:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new…..rrior.html
Could be an interesting schism.
Bill, what do you think about Geithner?
When I watch him, I see a seven year old boy lying to his teacher.
Please welcome Bill Greider, whom Bill Moyers recently called “America’s leading chronicler of money, power and politics.”
___________-
FULLY AGREE,now i shall lurk…Kudos Jane and Mr.Greider
i realize it’s not a popular position, but in my opinion, we also have to stop contributing to the propaganda and stop treating people as groups to be manipulated rather than as fellow citizens to be treated as equals and with some measure of dignity.
p.s. i haven’t read your new book, but i’ve started your “secrets of the temple.” i realize it’s from a few years ago, but i thought i should try to learn more about the fed, and naomi klein recommended is as the place to start. would it be ok for me to ask a question or two about the fed?
Perris — I assume you are referring to the Federal Reserve and its very peculiar structure with private shareholders who are bankers in the 12 regional banks etc. This arrangement is ridiculous and has been since 1913 a device to obscure the central bank’s public status. It generates lots of rich conspiracy theories. The truth is, however, the Fed and its subsidiaries constitute an agency of government. I know a lot of good people refuse to believe this, but I think the issue is a diversion from the real scandal. The Fed is illegitimate because it is a way for government to dodge accountability for the governing behavior. The politicians say, we are powerless because the Fed is independent. The Fed says we are “non-political” and don’t have to answer to the people. Booth are essential deceptions that allow the utter lack of accountability and outrageous secrecy. This is the core target for reform.
Here is Bill’s post, The Nation – Breaking Down the Auto Bailout
Jane, you’re right about Obama’s proposal to reform taxation of US multinationals and shut down their free ride. This intersects with the globalization debate and could be the start of something big in terms of economic reform (I explained in my Friday blog on the auto deal). The reason I have been less critical than others of Obama’s opening moves is that I recognize he is taking on some epic fights with the financial powers and other interests. He will need a lot of popular support to see his way through those fights and so people have recognize that these battles intersect with one another. If the prez can win something substantial on MCC taxation, that is a watershed in the power struggle that will spill over to other issues.
that’s an explanation understanding I had not considered, thanx!
On the REM lyrics–something about “a eulogy from William Greider.” That was a high point of my long career. My stock went way up with my anyone under 40. You will have to ask Michael Stipe what it meant. I do not have a clue.
Thanks, Bill. Agreed — have been reading up on it all weekend, the GAO report etc., and it will be an epic battle. And an entirely admirable (and heroic) one if Obama can pull it off.
Selise — Thanks for taking on my Fed book. That was my “white whale” 20 years ago and it’s still selling (proud to say) and still very relevant to what’s happening now. The FR basically betrayed its obligation to the public by tipping the economic balance hard in favor of financial guys and capital versus working people and the real economy of producers. I describe this betrayal among the other failures of governing elites that we are facing — the subject of my new book, Come Home, America.
I created a lot of essential reading for you guys (only half kidding).
Obama is coming to Albuquerque this week for a town hall on credit cards, I think. The tea baggers are planning a big demonstration.
I certainly understand their pique over the bank bailout/debt. The tax loophole for corporations mentioned above is certainly a huge shot over the bow of corporate greed and the bad “citizenry” these banksters and others have been engaging in for too long.
I hope the public is paying attention to Obama on some of this, because it is a new game.
About Timothy Geitner…Elliot suggests he is like a 7 year old. I was slightly more generous in a Nation blog. He reminded me of the third grade when there was always one kid the teachers loved best — the guy who waved his hand frantically for attention when someone else stumbled. This type runs through government climbing the slippery pole. They are smart, of course, but they are a bit short on human sympathy.
Can capitalism actually “work” if it looks anything like what it has for the past half century? Does it have the inevitable collapse that we are seeing today?
If they “fix it” won’t it repeat again?
Sander — That is the crucial question. If US capitalism is not profoundly reformed, especially at the pinnacle of finance, the same players and institutions will correctly conclude they are free to do it all again with even stronger assurances that government will come to their rescue when illusions collapse. WE are at a very tender moment in our national history. If people do not step up now and counter the existing power centers, the decayed democracy could be weakened much further. The good news, however, is that people are angered and aroused. My new book is essentially my effort to help them engage the political challenge — to coax people out of cynicism and resignation, to show them that they are fully capable of acting again like sovereign citizens.
it seems that capitalism with the help of congress has stacked the deck in favor of capital and they have essentially one the class war and impoverished many american and saddled most of them with debt – owned by the company store one way or another.
How can american be the consumer nation envisioned by Edward Bernays and not end up in debt and in the poorhouse?
Mr. Greider I believe every word you say and American complacency has allowed amazing transgression from the wars in SE Asia, Iraq, the Balkans the nuclear arms race and the awarding of our economic life to a few in board rooms.
We are a the precipice and our failure to act will probably mean some sort of fascism called democracy but nothing like it.
I hope you are correct that people are mad enough to DEMONSTRATE and sites like FDL is shining the light on the way ahead.
One problem, as Stirling Newberry mentions in the post prior to this, is the likelihood that the masses will not place blame where blame is most due — and so (in Europe, at least) we will be seeing a big shift rightward if things don’t turn around soon (or even if they do). So the bankers hold a lot of the levers here, and are — as Stirling hints — counting on people to have short memories and to be ignorant of root causes.
And for people who think that this is a rather glum view of the mass of society both in and out of America: Look at how well the conservatives have done. They controlled DC from 1968 right up to now (and the town is still, as Josh Marshall says, “wired for Republicans”), the media is largely in their corner (thanks to things like gutting the FCC’s regulatory powers and killing the Fairness Doctrine, when it hasn’t been outright owned by conservatives pushing a conservative message), and our public-school system is under deliberate attack and has been since the days of Reagan. Al Gore tried to talk to Americans as if they were adults. Look where that got him.
With a recommendation from both the author and selise my next amazon order will be Secrets of the Temple. Come Home America will soon follow. Economics and finance have never been my forte but this crisis has sorta edged me into it.
This is Obama’s core dilemma, in my view. He stakes out promising positions on reform, often not as aggressive as I would like but at least opening subjects that have been taboo for decades. Yet the president has to deal with the system that exists. threading his way past the many obstacles and entrenched powers without provoking them more than necessary. This is extremely difficult politics, as recent history has demonstrated. The power centers — especially Wall Street — have had a veto power and they use it unless they get their way. My view is that Obama has become MORE AGGRESSIVE to prevail, not less, in order to sharpen the conflict and rally the populace to his side. It seems clear that is not his strategy — not yet anyway. But we are early in the story. The way we put it at the Nation is we wish to be LOYAL CRITICS — wlling to stand by him AND criticize him if he is feint-hearted.
The source for our fear is not “outside:” Nazis, Soviets, OSL, “terrorists.” These are all “constructed.” (See Sam Keen’s classic book, or dvd: “Faces of the Enemy.” “–Faces of the Enemy has long been one of my most treasured resources. It helps us understand how systems corrupt citizens to hate(fear) an arbitrarily designated “Other” and soldiers to want to kill that “Other-Enemy.” –Philip Zimbardo, Former President, American Psychological Association)
We can only become an empowered citizenry when we are beyond the influence of media propaganda: generated by the two-headed hydra propaganda machine of government and capitalism. Currently, We, the People are easy pickings for these two. We are indeed a consumer society. Whatever swill the tv pumps out, we swallow. (After 9/11, How to best support our country? “Go shopping?”) Will it take a generation of public school curriculum in Critical Thinking? Or, must we regain the upper hand through reforming the laws that historically have held capitalism in check?
Okay, there is hope. Obama was elected because, whether they had enough detailed information on the particulars, or not, the citizenry knew we’d been hoodwinked by the bushies. Our democracy is broken, though recoupable. But how do we turn this into the requisite activism necessary to seriously and substantially turn things around? How do we evict the Big Money influence in virtually all of our civic arenas, from Congress, state and city hall? The energizing information and the level of critical thinking will come from where?
William: I notice that you are a graduate of Princeton. It seems to me that Harvard, Yale and Princeton grads have one hell of a lot of influence on our economic poliy.
I wonder, if a adding a few grads from the business shools of Kansas, Montana, Iowa or some such, to the mix might not be a good idea.
Yes you did.
Maybe we should have a “golden oldies” version of Book Salon for your Fed book?
william, I’ve recently read that if we consider all taxes payed, local, state, federal, useage;
middle and lower class actually pay a higher percentage of wage then the wealthy even when we consider the progressive formula
for instance, I spend just about my entire salary to expenses that are taxed again on that sale.
the wealthy don’t spend the same percentage of their wage and are therefore taxed less
I’ve read the middle and lower classes actually pay about 40 percent to taxes all considered, the wealthy about 30 percent
have you done any analysis like that and is this true?
here’s a link to that source
http://www.askquestions.org/articles/taxes/
that’s even before the tax gifts to the wealthy so the differance should be even higher now
Capital doing what it does best has in the process destroyed lots of America’s capacity to have a sustainable ecomony. They tied us in a very troubling dependancy to low cost off shore labor environments.
Now we almost can’t do anything over here. All this in the service of profits, Since capital can’t see making money in living wage labor markets (here) it’s not likely that jobs and industry will return to america if it is left to corporations – they can’t make those enormous profits their owners require.
This seems to point to the people owning and creating non profit industries with living wage structures here and erecting barriers to cheap imports.
Or are we in a race to the bottom and we will be a third world country?
thanks. i look forward to reading come home, america too. these are topics that i’ve wrongly ignored most of my life and am trying to catch up on now.
my first question was going to be about how relevant the fed of 20 years ago is to today’s fed – but you’ve already answered that. my second question is about volcker. do you know if he has had any second thoughts about what he did? i’ve heard carter say he regretted that when he was president he didn’t understand how economic rights were fundamental to human rights (or something like that – just a paraphrase from memory).
The classic struggle between capital and labour. Without strict regulation capitalism will destroy not only itself but almost every society on earth.
What is the alternative to the Fed or any sort of central bank? The argument that the Fed was to be apolitical doesn’t hold water. Is it possible to have monetary/economic polices that are immune to political machinations?
Let me respond as well to SanderO’s fears about popular reactions. The stakes of our dysfunctional democracy are much higher (and more dangerous) now. The propaganda of course directs the blame in wrong directions, hoping to encourage Americans to scapegoat the wrong folks. But this makes it all the more imperative that those of us who know better and have found our voice and courage to speak must intrude and counter the clever lies.
I particularly urge you not to give up on the people. Some of them are airheads, for sure, but most are not in my experience. They have been marginalized and manipulated by moderm politics — convinced they have no power and will always be ignored by those who do. So naturally they drop out, many anyway.
But my reading of the country is that — despite everything — people still want to believe in the country and themselves, the good values that have been trashed. Political events of the last couple years confirm this. I believe. Obama ran on the outrageous premise that people are better than the stereotypes. So don’t assume Americans are going to spring for fascism. That is more likely if they hear nothing that makes sense of things, if their lives continue to be upended and trashed without relief or hope. Politics — upclose and personal — matters much much more in these circumstances.
I’m still leading cheers for the folks (I call them “the other America” in my book).
My Greider –long a hero (Secrets of the Temple, Who Will Tell the People?), I believe that the capitalism unleashed with the merger and acquisition mania of the Reagan era began an outright war: Capitalism vs. Democracy.
So much of today’s complex and seeming paradoxical politics, both national and international are more readily, and properly understood through this lense. I’ve often thought that “Capitalism vs. Democracy” is a book you should write.
I don’t think americans will slowly come around to understand they’ve been screwed and that both the system and the big guys are screwing them.
I think change will only come from collapse when suffering is so widespread that people are forced to react. In a sense we need a huge crash to wake americans from this nightmare. Right now they seem to be expecting the money tossed at the banks to create jobs again and in a few months things will be coming around. WRONG.
We are seeing and will see over the next few years more and more collpase and not turn around.
The only hope is in very aggressive policies like nationalizing industries – banking and so forth and I don’t mean getting shares in these companies.
US needs to nationalize the energy industry, airlines, communications, and health. BANG
Jane, I want to take you up on a “golden oldie” salon on Secrets of the Temple. Here is
This bit tells me I’d best get crackin’ on reading Secrets.
Sorry, Jane, I misfired before I made my point. The Fed is approaching its 100th anniversary in 2013 and already preparing elaborately for the event. An old source told me recently they are collecting oral histories from former governors etc. He is helping in the effort and told the committee that my book is a better account on some events than the official versions.
I told this guy — somewhat playfully — that “our side” proposes to tear down the Temple in 2013 and create a new democratic institution in its place, a central bank that actually serves the people and is no longer so cozy with the financial titans. My source got a stricken look. He did not regard this as a joking matter.l
This is an excellent point. Capilatism is an economic system. Democracy is a political one. We think we live in a democracry and all the institutions are democractically run. WRONG. We live in a capitalist system which is THE ORGANIZING principle of our daily lives.
In fact we saw how the last administration trashed our constitution because it got in the way of their hegomonic fantasies and plans to privitize EVERYTHING.
We were told that government is inefficient and can’t do anything. Government is WE THE PEOPLE. So we were told that corporate boards motivated by profit can do it all. And the private “sector” has most of us under their thumb.
What happened to democracy? They bought the congress!
Of course 99.9% of the people don’t have a clue about how the economy works, All they know is they work, get paid, save and spend and pay taxes.
That it is so complex allows OZ to do their nasty stuff since people are in awe of the Masters of the Universe and can’t comprehend what they do. They trust. Wrong.
Wow, thanks. I have never seen it put so well.
Former vice president Dick Cheney insisted Sunday that intelligence extracted from tough interrogations of suspected Al-Qaeda militants had saved “perhaps hundreds of thousands” of US lives.
Defending anew the former administration’s controversial policies, Cheney accused President Barack Obama’s team of sitting on memoranda that he said would justify his claim about the value of the intelligence produced.
***********************
Mr.Greider,how can ordinary Americans tell truth from lies,when a man such as this is given unlimited uncritical prime airtime?
William, welcome. Do you have any idea who/what caused the electronic run on the banks to the tune of $550,000,000,000 in less than 2 hours? Here’s Rep. Kanjorski talking about it this past February on C-SPAN…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dATBx6TdvU8
oy……………..thats alota of bacon
And not refuted without his offering a scintilla of proof.
Capitalism requires competition. Most markets and their suppliers are dominated by oligopolies, who stomp out competition and innovation.
Captialism “works,” because it uses the laws of supply and demand to describe economic behavior. Supply and demand are like gravity. They describe economic behavior whether we believe in them or not.
What we have now is croneyism.
We need a lot more intelligent regulation to get back to a level playing field where competition can flourish in those markets where it can. Some world markets, where we already face state run oligopolies, we have to respond in kind.
that is what i meant by uncritical…there is NO evidence or they would have shouted it from the rooftops as MISSION ACCOMPLISHED PART 2
i agree. that’s why i don’t want to burn any bridges when it comes to talking with people who listen right wing radio, etc. i used to live in tx (before that i lived in northern ca and now i live in ma), and in my experience if i take the trouble to talk and especially to listen, people are just not their stereotypes (good or bad). also, people can and do change their minds about political matters.
What this discussion is reviving is a very old quality in American life — the reality of power versus the words and promises in our founding documents. Your reactions confirm my confidence in what’s still possible and I especially pin my hopes on those of you who are not geezers like me.
In Come Home, America, the final chapter is called “The Underground River” and it is about the democratic pulse that runs through our history, from before there was a republic. The struggle has nearly always been from the bottom up — people who recognized the contradictions in their own lives and were opposed by the dominating status quo. People striving to break through the barriers are the life force that has always taken the country to the next higher level. We are at that struggle again and in very different terms. As Jane cited my belief above, I do not think America is a finished story — old and tired and in decline. I believe we are looking at the next great struggle and these adversities compel us to take uup the risks and obstacles and somehow push through them to higer ground.
I know, I know. This is easy for me to say and not easy at all for people to accomplish what I am describing. Still, this is what I truly believe — I call it America the Possible. For some years, I ve been telling audiences of young people that I am a bit envious because they are going to face VERY interesting times. My generation spanned the years of retreat. Your generation is going to attempt the new advance.
What we have now is croneyism.
———————-
and little over sight of the products(Chinese poison pet food)
As we come to the end of this great Book Salon,
Bill, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing your new book and economics.
Jane, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.
Everyone, this is an outstanding book, if you haven’t bought it yet, here is a link.
Thanks all.
Obviously the big guys knew the shit was about to hit the fan and they were trying to get out with as much as they could. The banks were so highly leveraged a failure would cascade through the entire system and they saw no way to unwind it so they began selling and shorting like crazy.
Then they called congress and told them the whole system was going to collapse presto subito unless they signalled that they would stop it with ooodles of cash which they could print and buy the toxic assets which were at the foundation of their house of cards.
They blamed it on people borrowing who shouldn’t have (like the bankers no?) And the gov stepped in and proclaimed that we couldn’t loose our financial system over there on wall street, because main street would take a hit too and the whole ball of wax would melt.
They have been engaged for 6 months in creating an new con game so every one can go on with their credit fetish while they reward bankers by buying their worthless paper and sticking it on the grandchildren so to speak. They’ll take SS next – to save the economy.
if i take the trouble to talk and especially to listen, people are just not their stereotypes (good or bad). also, people can and do change their minds about political matters.
———————-
so true i do it at the supermarket,milk and produce area,and the gas pump
…………………G
sander0, I believe the only way we’re gonna get our law makers working for us instead of the corporate world is by gettng rid of coporate sponsorship elections
I think it’s absolutely crucial we have public financing of elections, and ABSOLUTE that we RESCIND personhood from corporations, they CANNOT have constitutional protection, this will help add restrictions to the power of the lobby
bev w, this has been one of the most informative times I’ve had at a book salon, another incrdible session here at the lake
I don’t know that capitalism requires competition. It would seem that competition is a moderating influence on capital. But capital is perfectly content to be monopolistic and control a market.
Thank you, Mr Greider. The next time you show up at the Lake I will have done my homework.
Namaste
How about no for profit enterprises are allowed to lobby?
thank you for your time here today. i look forward to reading your latest — it sounds like a hopeful book, and i could use some reason to hope that doesn’t require rose-tinted glassed.
that sounds like an excellant idea sander0, I believe I will co-opt that suggestion with you
i hope you do — it would be fun to have someone to discuss it with (it’s long!).
My Greider is an american treasure. More people need to get familiar with his thinking and integrate it into their action.
Competition threatens surplus value. In order to maintain a desired level of profit with competition requires that more surplus value be extracted from labour. More machines, less labour or more productivity from labour. That’s why our manufacturing jobs went overseas.
Bill, thanks so much for being here. You’re always an inspiration.
I’m looking forward to our “golden oldie” salon on your Fed book.
Thank you so much, Mr. Greider, this was a great discussion.
Who will tell the people when your greatest hits Book Salon will be ;)
Thanks Jane, and as always, thanks Bev.
We are besieged with the propaganda from corporate america AND they then buy our congress critters with their lobbying.
After reading Capital, Vol 1, twice long don’t matter any more. *g*
To encourage a little more faith in the people at large, let me plug a couple of books I did not write. One is historian Lawrence Goodwyn’s classic history of the Populists — The Populist Moment. It is a great read and conveys a sense of how ordinary people in the most desperate circumstances were able to create their own politics. The Populists are disparaged by elites but actually generated profound reform goals that eventually were adopted. The other book is “Many Minds, One Heart” by Wesley Hogan, a brillian young historian who tell the intimate story of the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee. It was the leading edge in the civil rights movement and incredibly courageous as well grounded in Gandhian principle.
If you read either of these books, ask yourself how people on the outer margins of society could achieve such change with no help from others. Then ask yourself if those qualities are still present in American society.
It does not take a majority to change the country. It takes a purposeful minority brave enough to lead the way. best to all, Bill Greider
Personally, I think it was the Rothschilds (largest stockholder in the Federal Reserve) along with some very powerful hedge fund fu*kers. Since the electronic run on the banks where a HALF TRILLION WAS TAKEN IN LESS THAN 2 HOURS was done on September 11, 2008, it will always be a conspiracy since our government (or the New York AG) will never investigate it!
Thanks to Jane for these Salons and Mr. Grieder for his brilliant work. Great work!
Jane… a suggestion… can FDL post a list of books with a brief summary somewhere on the site for easy reference?
When you start taking shots at “capitalism,” everyone is going to think you’re against private property. It’s a really, really hard sell.
The corporatists who are stealing our assets don’t believe in capitalism or supply and demand. They simply frame the argument to portray anyone who disagrees with them as being against private property.
Thank you.
It was the ultimate insider trading wasn’t it.
The game is fixed, the deck is stacked, the house always wins.
I am not sure if I am for private property as blanket concept. I don’t have a problem with people owning things. Id do have a problem with owning real estate and then renting it to others for profit for their living needs.
Exactly. Blaming anyone but the insiders is ludicrous if you ask me. It doesn’t help either that Lynn Forester De Rothschild was pee’od after Hillary was kicked off the Dem ticket. Makes you wonder if she made a few phone calls after that for the “October surprise” but instead scheduled it to happen on 9/11/08 just for her own sheer pleasure!
If you examine how the “real estate” interests in NYC work, you might find it hard to support the notion of private property without some serious reservations.
imo supply and demand have been oversold ;-)
There’s some one who loves playing with the 911 – emergency thing. That’s too coincidental by half.
I’d rather rent than own. Like the Native Americans I don’t believe one can own Mother Earth, but reality gets in the way of belief every time. I don’t have a problem with landlords who ask a fair rent and maintain the property. Renting I can move at will. Owning chains me to that property. I don’t like chains.
Speaking of hard sells why is socialism a hard sell?
Why should a private corporation own energy resources which they extract from the earth and then sell to the people? Why not make energy a commodity owned by the people and distributed at cost?
I agree and I don’t own property either. But most landlords are in it as a business for profit – as much as they can get…. and there’s the rub.
We do have state owned rental housing which is very reasonable in cost as it should be, but it is very scarce.
i didn’t think it was the 11th, i thought it was after lehman went under and two big money market funds “broke the buck.” but the run was stopped (around the 19th?) by the treasury and money market deposits were temporarily guaranteed.
is that wrong? do you have any source material to review?
Adam Smith and David Ricardo made much of supply and demand being the hallmark of capitalism. Marx sees capitalism as more complex than that.
Fixed it for ya.
Renting in NYC is a world unto itself.
Lehman was being shorted for day it seems. There was some attempt to cash out on CDSs that put Lehman in the tank. Once that happened the CDS had to be redeemed and that weakened to counter parties (AIG) and threatened the entire web over there.
Tell me about it! YIKES
more here
“From each according to his/her ability, to each according to his/her need (or needs)” is what most families in America practice.
Once you get outside the family, however, it simply doesn’t work.
Socializing losses and privatizing profits hits the corpratists and the banksters where they live. It’s a much easier sell than taking on private property.
whatever the law says, as a practical matter i don’t think we can ever be other than stewards.
Why?
I always fall back on the historical notion of original sin/aka the history of evil.
We need an economic system that at least recognizes the permanent existential of human selfishness.
ok. but i also want an economic system that does not foster selfishness and one that recognizes the existence of something more than selfishness.
people are motivated to do work for all kinds of reasons – and not all of them are for the $$$.
an economic system that does not result in making the planet uninhabitable would be nice too.
I am not against people owning things. I am not for private property as in real estate for housing!
It’s the golden rule. S/he who has the gold (capital), makes the rules.
At this point I would gladly settle for professionals who had respect for the rule of law. We don’t even have that.
I believe that where ever power concentrates, it breeds injustice and avarice. All we can do imho is keep fighting for divided government aka the separation of powers.
probably true.
we can fight for distributed power, but where ever power becomes concentrated there will those who fight against that.
Yep.
The super rich in America/the West have convinced the media that they are saints, who came by their wealth as a result of their superior work ethic.
Jane’s been excellent on uncovering this.
That was required reading for my first grad course, especially the chapter on the enclosure movement in England. Went on to the other two volumes which were drier but then found more fun reading in Marx’s earlier writings. He really did quite a wit and I found myself laughing out loud at a lot of his observations.
If you go and read The Civil War in France or The Class Struggles in Paris (both of which are available online at http://www.marxists.org) you’ll be surprised at how closely what we are going through now mirrors what the French and other Europeans were going through during the era of revolutions in Europe during the 19th century.
They don’t have to convince the media because the media are owned lock, stock, and barrel by rich people (Murdoch, Bloomberg, Redstone) or giant multinational corporations like GE and Disney.
Places like FDL, DailyKos, nakedcapitalist, digby, counterpunch, Brad Delong’s blog; these are where people get dissenting views or at least enough facts to make informed decisions on their own without having to listen to the echo chamber. I’ve even given up watching Olbermann and Maddow and Stewart. I’m tired of hearing people say how important it is for us to do certain things to get our country back knowing that those things aren’t going to be done because a.)the country won’t be returned without a serious fight and b.) the people needed to fight that battle have continually voted against their class interests in favor of people like Bush, Reagan, Nixon, and, yes, Clinton.
.
Sounds like America needs a Mom.
And not a MILF, either.
Happy Muddahs Day to alla youse!
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Well, if you listen to Rep. Kanjorski in the video above I posted, he will refer to “Thursday” and “September 15th”, which September 11th and September 18th are Thursdays, so I took him to mean the 11th.
Here’s what was being reported on September 17, 2008 by the NYT:
http://norris.blogs.nytimes.co…..o-quality/
Was the electronic run on the banks already underway? Could be, Selise. It needs to be investigated, but as usual, nothing of value or importance ever gets investigated!
thanks for replying kay. your nyt link is consistent with what i’ve read elsewhere.
btw, i first heard kanjorski talk about the money market run in a hearing last fall just a few days later – on sept 24 2008 – when paulson was testifying. there is more on what i found, including a link to a youtube i made from the hearing webstream, at the link i posted in comment 104.
i’ve been curious ever since to know more. but at this time i don’t know how to independently verify anything kanjorski said, let alone get more and better info. and i definitely agree – would love to see an open investigation, so the public could know exactly what the heck happened. especially as that money market run was given as the reason paulson demanded the $700 billion blank check bailout (aka the tarp) and i’ve never heard any good reason to explain that (backing the commercial paper the money markets were into i do kinda get).