Comments on: The Blue Dogs’ New Fossil Fool Trick: “Centrist” Climate Suicide Pacts http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/ Firedoglake weblog Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:34:57 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Knut http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896384 Knut Sun, 10 May 2009 07:30:04 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896384 <p>The Blue Dogs are reaching out for corporate funding, and the corporations are reaching out to the Blue Dogs. Given the collapse of the Republican party, and Obama’s competence and popularity, the corporations have only one place to go if they are going to get their hands back on the tiller of state. Blue Dogs see an opportunity. It’s the same old same old, with new faces. It will be interesting and important to see how Obama reacts to this threat, which is a olong way off right now, but could grow fast if he slips up. There are a lot of sharks out there looking to take another bite out of the American public.</p> The Blue Dogs are reaching out for corporate funding, and the corporations are reaching out to the Blue Dogs. Given the collapse of the Republican party, and Obama’s competence and popularity, the corporations have only one place to go if they are going to get their hands back on the tiller of state. Blue Dogs see an opportunity. It’s the same old same old, with new faces. It will be interesting and important to see how Obama reacts to this threat, which is a olong way off right now, but could grow fast if he slips up. There are a lot of sharks out there looking to take another bite out of the American public.

]]> By: ondelette http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896332 ondelette Sun, 10 May 2009 05:24:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896332 <p>Unfortunately, not nearly scary enough.</p> <p>There’s this thing called the Asian Brown Cloud. Actually the pictures show it has subdivisions, a cloud over China, one over India, another piece over Indonesia, etc. It’s not carbon footprint stuff, it’s smog and particulate matter. It keeps the temperature rising as slowly as it has been rising — yes, that’s right, slowly. Without it, the ambient temperature would be rising more quickly. But since it’s particulate, it falls again, and deposits soot on all the glaciers and the polar ice. So those melt at about 10 times the speed they would under just the temperature rising at the speed it is currently rising. The cloud is industrial and cooking fire and chaff burnoff polution. End the brown cloud the temperature rises faster, but the glaciers last longer.</p> <p>The glaciers are in bad shape. The Kilamanjaro glacier will be gone by 2015 or so, ending the ballast for the rivers in southern and eastern Africa. They will become seasonal, causing drought in the summer, runoff rain and flooding in the rainy season. In 2050-2060, the Himalayan glaciers are due to be gone. Same problem, the river system that flows from them becomes seasonal. The impact on crops, drinking water, life itself in both areas is massive.</p> <p>The Himalayan system feeds the Indus, the Ganges, the Brahmaputra, the Irawaddy, the Mekong, the Red River, the Yangtze, the Yellow river, and the Kabul river. The Kilimanjaro glacier feeds the Congo river, the Zambezi, the Nile, the lakes (Tanganyika and Victoria).</p> <p>All told the impact on drinking water, irrigation, food, and local climate is an impact on 3 billion people or so. That’s in addition to all the stuff caused by the rise in average temperature, and the changes in weather patterns caused by state changes in the number of weather cells.</p> Unfortunately, not nearly scary enough.

There’s this thing called the Asian Brown Cloud. Actually the pictures show it has subdivisions, a cloud over China, one over India, another piece over Indonesia, etc. It’s not carbon footprint stuff, it’s smog and particulate matter. It keeps the temperature rising as slowly as it has been rising — yes, that’s right, slowly. Without it, the ambient temperature would be rising more quickly. But since it’s particulate, it falls again, and deposits soot on all the glaciers and the polar ice. So those melt at about 10 times the speed they would under just the temperature rising at the speed it is currently rising. The cloud is industrial and cooking fire and chaff burnoff polution. End the brown cloud the temperature rises faster, but the glaciers last longer.

The glaciers are in bad shape. The Kilamanjaro glacier will be gone by 2015 or so, ending the ballast for the rivers in southern and eastern Africa. They will become seasonal, causing drought in the summer, runoff rain and flooding in the rainy season. In 2050-2060, the Himalayan glaciers are due to be gone. Same problem, the river system that flows from them becomes seasonal. The impact on crops, drinking water, life itself in both areas is massive.

The Himalayan system feeds the Indus, the Ganges, the Brahmaputra, the Irawaddy, the Mekong, the Red River, the Yangtze, the Yellow river, and the Kabul river. The Kilimanjaro glacier feeds the Congo river, the Zambezi, the Nile, the lakes (Tanganyika and Victoria).

All told the impact on drinking water, irrigation, food, and local climate is an impact on 3 billion people or so. That’s in addition to all the stuff caused by the rise in average temperature, and the changes in weather patterns caused by state changes in the number of weather cells.

]]> By: demi http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896156 demi Sun, 10 May 2009 03:13:16 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896156 <p>No, dear. California. Met Suzanne when before she got all Oregoniey. Met Loo Hoo, down Southways. I live in a little foot hilly area very northwest of Los Angeles. Born and bred.</p> No, dear. California. Met Suzanne when before she got all Oregoniey. Met Loo Hoo, down Southways. I live in a little foot hilly area very northwest of Los Angeles. Born and bred.

]]> By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D. http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896152 Kirk James Murphy, M.D. Sun, 10 May 2009 03:11:57 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896152 <p>uh-oh: stove top is calling…check in after cooking…..</p> uh-oh: stove top is calling…check in after cooking…..

]]> By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D. http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896148 Kirk James Murphy, M.D. Sun, 10 May 2009 03:11:17 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896148 <p>glad for the natural scenery and your good drive!</p> <p>bummer about the grandkid-roasting train.</p> glad for the natural scenery and your good drive!

bummer about the grandkid-roasting train.

]]> By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D. http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896147 Kirk James Murphy, M.D. Sun, 10 May 2009 03:09:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896147 <p>Hey, fantasy is always good (well, except the Cheynesque type. frightens kittens yet unborn)</p> <p>Fortunately, we actually have the tools (wind; thermal solar baseload; “negawatts”, aka efficiency) to solve the carbon deadline - if we start now.</p> <p>What’s lacking, at least in my home tonight, are the tools we require to shove past our corrupt elites and implement those solutions.</p> <p>[otoh, there are still some moving boxes to unpack. perhaps i’ll get lucky.]</p> Hey, fantasy is always good (well, except the Cheynesque type. frightens kittens yet unborn)

Fortunately, we actually have the tools (wind; thermal solar baseload; “negawatts”, aka efficiency) to solve the carbon deadline – if we start now.

What’s lacking, at least in my home tonight, are the tools we require to shove past our corrupt elites and implement those solutions.

[otoh, there are still some moving boxes to unpack. perhaps i’ll get lucky.]

]]> By: greenwarrior http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896146 greenwarrior Sun, 10 May 2009 03:08:29 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896146 <p>it should be pretty good after tonight. an improvement over what it’s been. as always though, i wait til i see the whites of their eyes when it comes to environmental action, enforcement and legislation.</p> it should be pretty good after tonight. an improvement over what it’s been. as always though, i wait til i see the whites of their eyes when it comes to environmental action, enforcement and legislation.

]]> By: Raven http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896144 Raven Sun, 10 May 2009 03:04:27 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896144 <p>Drove from Johnson City TN over the mountains and down to Athens today. Incredible beauty but ya’ll would have freaked at the coal trains!</p> Drove from Johnson City TN over the mountains and down to Athens today. Incredible beauty but ya’ll would have freaked at the coal trains!

]]> By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D. http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896143 Kirk James Murphy, M.D. Sun, 10 May 2009 03:02:52 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896143 <p>wow. those successes are really impressive, but good luck in the mayoral race. sounds like you all will do well, though. do you all have a working council majority?</p> wow. those successes are really impressive, but good luck in the mayoral race. sounds like you all will do well, though. do you all have a working council majority?

]]> By: greenwarrior http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896142 greenwarrior Sun, 10 May 2009 03:01:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/09/the-blue-dogs-new-fossil-fool-trick-centrist-climate-suicide-pacts/#comment-1896142 <p>ya, you could pick me up on the way. where are you? is it arizona?</p> ya, you could pick me up on the way. where are you? is it arizona?

]]>