Comments on: Prosecution’s Opening Statement in US v. Bradbury, Bybee, and Yoo http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 07:01:09 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: malachi45 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895691 malachi45 Sat, 09 May 2009 05:02:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895691 <p>Hypothetical, fictional moral exercise/Scenario:</p> <p>Mr. Redstate’s child has been kidnapped and buried alive in a location only the perpetrator knows. He catches up to the perpetrator and has him in an abandoned house on the edge of town. He asks him where his child is and the kidnapper laughs at him. The kidnapper tells him there are only a few hours of air left for his child and that his last act of freedom before the authorities arrive will be to enjoy watching Mr. Redstate squirm as his baby girl dies. Mr. Redstate has a knife, a pair of pliers and a cigarette lighter.</p> <p>What should he do? Which is the moral thing to do, let his child suffocate or try and get her location out of the man who is laughing at her impending death? </p> <p>I know what I would do.</p> Hypothetical, fictional moral exercise/Scenario:

Mr. Redstate’s child has been kidnapped and buried alive in a location only the perpetrator knows. He catches up to the perpetrator and has him in an abandoned house on the edge of town. He asks him where his child is and the kidnapper laughs at him. The kidnapper tells him there are only a few hours of air left for his child and that his last act of freedom before the authorities arrive will be to enjoy watching Mr. Redstate squirm as his baby girl dies. Mr. Redstate has a knife, a pair of pliers and a cigarette lighter.

What should he do? Which is the moral thing to do, let his child suffocate or try and get her location out of the man who is laughing at her impending death?

I know what I would do.

]]> By: RoyRogers http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895626 RoyRogers Sat, 09 May 2009 03:49:32 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895626 <p>When I hear the word “torture”, I “see” images of a terrified human being, with arms bound behind their back, surrounded by 4 or 5 hooded figures brandishing long knives, being made to read a “manifesto” on video tape.</p> <p>Immediately following a “proclamation” by the leader of these hooded figures, these 4 or 5 figures hold this poor soul down as they scream and plead for their life, while the leader cuts off their living head and holds it in the air by it’s hair.</p> <p>OR a plane filled with terrified innocent men, women, and children knowing they will NEVER see their loved ones again.</p> <p>That’s “torture”, unless “torture” comes in various “flavors” to suit the whim and the winds of political fortune.</p> When I hear the word “torture”, I “see” images of a terrified human being, with arms bound behind their back, surrounded by 4 or 5 hooded figures brandishing long knives, being made to read a “manifesto” on video tape.

Immediately following a “proclamation” by the leader of these hooded figures, these 4 or 5 figures hold this poor soul down as they scream and plead for their life, while the leader cuts off their living head and holds it in the air by it’s hair.

OR a plane filled with terrified innocent men, women, and children knowing they will NEVER see their loved ones again.

That’s “torture”, unless “torture” comes in various “flavors” to suit the whim and the winds of political fortune.

]]> By: stryder http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895622 stryder Sat, 09 May 2009 03:45:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895622 <p>Shorter neuremberg<br /> God damnit! can’t you see we want clean wars<br /> There are rules here.It’s ok to starve a half a million or so but don’t be stealing their teeth</p> Shorter neuremberg
God damnit! can’t you see we want clean wars
There are rules here.It’s ok to starve a half a million or so but don’t be stealing their teeth

]]> By: EMTguy http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895570 EMTguy Sat, 09 May 2009 02:33:51 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895570 <p>Do any of you know what torture is? Torture is standing on a building ledge 1000 feet above the street trying to decide whether to stay where you are and be burned alive, or alternatively, to jump and be turned into a lump of red gelatin with bones. Please try to get some perspective in your thinking.</p> Do any of you know what torture is? Torture is standing on a building ledge 1000 feet above the street trying to decide whether to stay where you are and be burned alive, or alternatively, to jump and be turned into a lump of red gelatin with bones. Please try to get some perspective in your thinking.

]]> By: BOHICA http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895455 BOHICA Fri, 08 May 2009 23:35:03 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895455 <p>Conspiracy to commit.</p> <blockquote><p> * United States Code<br /> o TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE<br /> + PART I - CRIMES<br /> # CHAPTER 113C - TORTURE </p> <p>U.S. Code as of: 01/19/04<br /> Section 2340A. Torture</p> <p> (a) Offense. - Whoever outside the United States commits or<br /> attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or<br /> imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to<br /> any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be<br /> punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.<br /> (b) Jurisdiction. - There is jurisdiction over the activity<br /> prohibited in subsection (a) if -<br /> (1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or<br /> (2) the alleged offender is present in the United States,<br /> irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged<br /> offender.</p> <p> (<strong>c) Conspiracy. - A person who conspires to commit an offense<br /> under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other<br /> than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the<br /> offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.<br /></strong></p> </blockquote> Conspiracy to commit.

* United States Code
o TITLE 18 – CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
+ PART I – CRIMES
# CHAPTER 113C – TORTURE

U.S. Code as of: 01/19/04
Section 2340A. Torture

(a) Offense. – Whoever outside the United States commits or
attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to
any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be
punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction. – There is jurisdiction over the activity
prohibited in subsection (a) if -
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States,
irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged
offender.

(c) Conspiracy. – A person who conspires to commit an offense
under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other
than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the
offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

]]> By: TheraP http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895452 TheraP Fri, 08 May 2009 22:49:43 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895452 <p>To back all of this up, there’s <a href="http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2009/05/opr-the-media-have-the-story-w.php" rel="nofollow">this post of mine</a>, which is based on an emptywheel comment of mine from yesterday. It’s based on an analysis of OPR’s own policies and procedures, with 3 updates, the third of which discusses how the Inspector General of DoJ was prevented from being able to investigate crimes like this in DoJ.</p> To back all of this up, there’s this post of mine, which is based on an emptywheel comment of mine from yesterday. It’s based on an analysis of OPR’s own policies and procedures, with 3 updates, the third of which discusses how the Inspector General of DoJ was prevented from being able to investigate crimes like this in DoJ.

]]> By: ralphbon http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895451 ralphbon Fri, 08 May 2009 22:46:28 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895451 <p>Cheney to Yoo: (wink) Oh, who will rid me of this meddlesome prohibition (against torture)?</p> <p>Holder to Johnsen: (wink) Oh, who will rid me of this meddlesome obligation (to prosecute)?</p> Cheney to Yoo: (wink) Oh, who will rid me of this meddlesome prohibition (against torture)?

Holder to Johnsen: (wink) Oh, who will rid me of this meddlesome obligation (to prosecute)?

]]> By: foothillsmike http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895450 foothillsmike Fri, 08 May 2009 22:46:09 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895450 <p>Additionally, 98 people died while in US custody, some where identified as murder, many others, thanks to CIA and DOD obfuscation, are of unknown causation. This atmosphere of torture, which was encouraged by the efforts of these defendents, led to many if not all of these deaths.</p> Additionally, 98 people died while in US custody, some where identified as murder, many others, thanks to CIA and DOD obfuscation, are of unknown causation. This atmosphere of torture, which was encouraged by the efforts of these defendents, led to many if not all of these deaths.

]]> By: tjbs http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895449 tjbs Fri, 08 May 2009 22:42:41 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895449 <p>Obama is The President ,give him slack. Wouldn’t you hope for some if this all consuming pile was dumped in our laps with plants in Justice and the Courts.</p> Obama is The President ,give him slack. Wouldn’t you hope for some if this all consuming pile was dumped in our laps with plants in Justice and the Courts.

]]> By: bgrothus http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895447 bgrothus Fri, 08 May 2009 22:37:20 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/05/08/prosecutions-opening-statement-in-us-v-bradbury-bybee-and-yoo/#comment-1895447 <p>It is worth mentioning that there is no requirement that a Supreme Court Justice is a lawyer. In the past it was not uncommon to pick from amongst non-lawyers. I believe the Constitution says the President makes the appointment of someone who can render fair and unbiased judgments and that the Senate shall approve the nomination.</p> <p>The reason that judges from lower courts are now appointed is so there is a sense of their prior rulings that may determine how they might rule on something in the future. Politics of this kind were not always the key for finding a SCOTUS nominee.</p> It is worth mentioning that there is no requirement that a Supreme Court Justice is a lawyer. In the past it was not uncommon to pick from amongst non-lawyers. I believe the Constitution says the President makes the appointment of someone who can render fair and unbiased judgments and that the Senate shall approve the nomination.

The reason that judges from lower courts are now appointed is so there is a sense of their prior rulings that may determine how they might rule on something in the future. Politics of this kind were not always the key for finding a SCOTUS nominee.

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